I surrender and radically accept

[snowglobe]

Hello all my fellow members!
I’ve been quietly lurking around the cite, keeping updates with many of you. In most cases I know from my personal experience, quiet is either good, or not big/painful enough to share. I’ve been quiet, while doing a lot of soul searching.

I’m living between two different cities, alternating either a week or two weeks, while my children are staying home and being looked after by my parents. My uBPDh has been working in another state 6 hrs away. He is “building his empire”. The np in him is the biggest motivator, he is pushing himself to the limit, taking charge and working 12 hrs a day with no weekends. He is also taking very poor care of himself, eating junk after work and gaining weight, forsaking physical excerise. To me it’s a self distracting behaviour, as np in him, he is all about being althletic and slender.

In the early stages of his “new work arrangement” I had to claw my way of coming with him. We get disconnected easily when we aren’t together. He starts making impulsive life decisions that aren’t in the interest of the family. To him, out of sight, out of mind. There isn’t any need to “provide” on the same level to his family, he seldomly asks about the kids, and almost never calls them. This arrangement of living in a different city made me anxious and very depressed. I have no friends, outside activities or purpose there other then cook, clean and do his laundry. My inner misery is reflected everywhere, I can’t even hide it. Although I don’t voice my unhappiness, I know he senses it, as BPDs are hyper vigilant. Our sex life became rare, he isn’t looking to connect, although we spend most of the day together.

I get so hopeless and helpless, that when he tells me, pack the bag we are leaving , I’m ready to burst into crying. I miss my kids terribly, I want to raise them, I miss my life and university, I had to take academ leave this semester due to traveling, I miss my family and my friends, my school, my bed, my life. He sees only his goal- which is taking his company public. He has people, who are dangling this idea in front of him, like a donkey with a carrot. For that reason he is willing to sucrifice and push through, in hopes of making it big. All my pleas of getting a personal lawyer are being rebuffed. His grandiose perception of himself is clouding his judgement. (He is terrible with judging people, was scammed more then once and thrown under the bus, had to claim bankruptcy, all for the same reason. When he is promised “once in a lifetime opportunity, his guard goes done). I’m left to pick up the pieces to save our family from financial ruins, he doesn’t learn the consequences, as I can’t let my kids down.

His current “partners/investors” are in the midst of being suit for inside trading. If this isn’t a red flag, I don’t know what is. I truly hope he is gonna make it, for his sake and our family. Yet, I’m not even cautiously optimistic. I truly don’t believe there will be anything good coming out of this, other then wasted time and some legal reprocussions.

I’ve had a lot of time on my hands, so I’ve been reading “stop caretaking borderline narcissist”, and I’ve seen more clear picture of my uBPDh. He is never going to recover, and give me the emotional connection or security I need. He is habitually bored and feels empty. To be able and remain interesting for him, I have to be swimwear model, and swing from the chandelier, while simultaneously juggling oranges. He is craving novelty and excitement. This need for constant stimulation, combined with being torn away from my home has made me resentful and depressed. I’m constantly waking up with a thought: “what am I doing here?.”, “I should be home with my kids”, “this has to stop”.

His company was supposed to go public nov 13th, we are almost in March, and the carrot is still being dangled in front of him. Because he is not in direct communication with his “partners”, doesn’t have a personal lawyer, he is telling me that “soon we are going public”. Frankly, I think that he is afraid of finding out the truth, as it would dispel his hopes of becoming rich and famous. While there is even a faint of hope, he will continue pushing through.

I’ve become a BPD ninja, with the help of this site and consultation of the Therapist. We don’t fight anymore, I don’t react or provoke him. Every time he starts “I want young meat, are you 18?. I want to spoon with a woman who never bore children” I start singing, or reply “I don’t listen to nonsense” and switch the topic “what do you want to have for dinner”. He doesn’t know what to do with me he is at the loss, stops and tries to hook me again. Yet, those attempts are slowly going away, and so is our communication. I’ve noticed that majority of his interaction is provoking me for a reaction, either with shock, fear or intimidation. He shares his “desire for a young hot p()y” is no longer a shocker or reason for my dismay. I song, tell him “we don’t speak to each other like that”, when he starts yelling or intimidating me. He then replies “how do we speak to each other” and I say “lovingly, with respect and concern for each other’s feelings”. It has been stopping him consistently, and in a few minutes he picks up a conversation as if nothing happened. As the power is shifting in these relationships, I realize that I need more. As a 33 yo woman I need emotional connection, I need to feel special, I need to have conversations about our uniqueness and differences, that don’t discuss how alike we are. Different is good, not threatening. He isn’t able to provide me with that.

I’ve been “self medicating” at the malls, something I don’t normally do at home, shopping to fill the emptiness of not being with my kids. I then feel guilty and it’s a short high. He knows and chooses to look the other way, again, because he senses my dissatisfaction. The only concern he has is my whereabouts, he is constantly tracking me when I’m out. I go to the mall, he says “how’s VICTORIA’s secret”?.

[snowglobe]

Even these intrusive behaviours don’t bother me much. I’m an open book and if folllowinf me makes him feel better, I don’t mind. I know he needs me, and in some way loves me. He’s been paying my mom an adequate salary for looking after the kids, he bought a lavish family vacation for us to spend time as a family, he drove all the way home for the weekend so I could see the kids, and attend my best friends birthday party. He provides very generously to me and the children. He doesn’t ask me for anything then him being the sole purpose for my existence. He started calling me “ mom, mommy”   , asking me out of a blue, “mom, do you love me?.” And I always reassure him in different ways “more then the life itself, ofcourse I do, most of all”, he then smiles and goes on doing what he is doing.
I’m so torn apart, on one hand I can see how hard he is working, and trying, he isn’t enjoying glamorous lifestyle while away from the family and really needs me there to be able to do what he does. On some level he “tries to ensure the kids future”. On the other hand, I’m sacrificing my time with kids, nothing that can be bought for money can replace the time lost.
From the outside it might seem that I’m a selfish bored housewife, whose husband is busting his b()$ at making her happy. On the inside I know that my uBPDh is even enjoying this arrangement, because he has me all to myself. Yet, he isn’t happy that I’m not at all cheerful or enthusiastic.

[snowglobe]

I’m torn between telling him I’m not going anymore, as I anticipate the reprocussions of my action.
Possibly:
Growing used to being without the family
Picking up drinking/doing drugs/slewing with prostitutes
Going back to relying on his BPD mother for emotional support
Pulling out financial support from me and kids
“Realizing” we are different people and divorcing me
Yet, I don’t think I have much to go on for a long time. I can’t see my children once every two weeks, live out of my suitcase, with no guarantees or time frames.

[snowglobe]

Talking to him doesn’t lead anywhere, he isn’t able to process and refuses to acknowledge any grain of truth in my pleadings of establishing clear rules with his partners/investors. When I press him for answers, he tells me that this arrangement will last for about a year. A year?. I can’t miss half of the year away from my children, and our marriage can’t survive a year of long distance relationships. We are going away as a family in a week, after we come back I plan to make my decision on what I’m going to do after.

[Radcliff]

Snowglobe,

You are doing your husband a service by observing things he is blind to.  It is his choice to listen or not.  You cannot make him get a lawyer.  This surely is terribly frustrating, especially when it impacts your family, but you may find that accepting the lack of control is less painful than fighting it.

In a startup/IPO situation there is immense pressure to make unrealistic promises.  My last boss was an NPD lite startup CEO with blind spots that made life around him painful.  Deadlines and promises were wildly unrealistic.  Even in healthier situations, timelines for business deals drag on and on.  If someone says there will be an IPO in eight months, I pace myself for 24 and brace for the likelihood that it will never happen.

I think you are wise to be thinking about what is sustainable for you and your family.  You cannot get this time with your kids back.

WW

[snowglobe]

@Wentworth,
Thank you for reading my post and replying. Although I’ve never been in a business of taking companies public, I know that his RTO?. Arrangement sounds too good to be true. The details and nuances aren’t as important, the bottom line, this company already exists, and they are listed. My husband’s and his partners’s company is an asset that they are “diluting” into already existing company. Again, can’t stress enough that as CFO of a company he is personally responsible. His newfound partners are being investigated and prosecuted with a large count of criminal charges, their court date is in April. Personally, I wouldn’t consider dealing with people with such reputation for no amount of money or promises. To me, it seems that they are using my uBPDh as a front for a new “shady business”. He doesn’t read in much into what he signs. My worst case scenario is him being thrown under the bus, for something that he isn’t even fully aware of. Would it cost our family everything? Possibly... .
I’m leaning towards staying home come May, I’m starting my university program again, I am determined to finish it, while raising my kids. What would it mean for our marriage? Would he find another “mommy”? He’s most likely pull the plug on my mon’s Salary should I stay home. My mom isn’t gonna take it likely. She is undiagnosed hysterionic personality disorder, and another reason why I was seeking similar interaction with a partner. Fear, obligation and guilt is heavily distowed upon me. My mom and husband are content and happy with the arrangement. The only people truly miserable and me and my kids.

[Notwendy]

I think you have said it well- everyone is happy except you and the kids. You have given up your time with them, in order to try to hold the pieces together of what looks like your H's reckless behavior.

When do you finish school - and will you have a decent job with your degree? This is important as your H may not be a reliable provider from what you have written, and if he does "cut" you off - you would not be completely dependent on him financially. That will leave you with choices about your relationship without fear of not being able to make it financially.

I understand the fear that he would run off with someone else. Yet, staying at his beck and call over that fear is costing your values- to be with your children. Good for you for not reacting to the statements to want a younger woman. That's not treating your kindly. One thing to keep in mind is that, people tend to choose people who "match " them dysfunction wise. If he were to choose to do that, the thrill would eventually be gone and he'd likely recreate the same mess he has now. IMHO, from what I have read, heard and seen- people can choose to end a dysfunctional relationship and after doing some personal work- are capable of having a more emotionally healthy one- the key is that they become more emotionally healthy themselves. Your H's idea will not likely be something better than he has with you.

[snowglobe]

I think you have said it well- everyone is happy except you and the kids. You have given up your time with them, in order to try to hold the pieces together of what looks like your H's reckless behavior.

When do you finish school - and will you have a decent job with your degree? This is important as your H may not be a reliable provider from what you have written, and if he does "cut" you off - you would not be completely dependent on him financially. That will leave you with choices about your relationship without fear of not being able to make it financially.

I understand the fear that he would run off with someone else. Yet, staying at his beck and call over that fear is costing your values- to be with your children. Good for you for not reacting to the statements to want a younger woman. That's not treating your kindly. One thing to keep in mind is that, people tend to choose people who "match " them dysfunction wise. If he were to choose to do that, the thrill would eventually be gone and he'd likely recreate the same mess he has now. IMHO, from what I have read, heard and seen- people can choose to end a dysfunctional relationship and after doing some personal work- are capable of having a more emotionally healthy one- the key is that they become more emotionally healthy themselves. Your H's idea will not likely be something better than he has with you.

@NotWendy,
Thank you for yours insight, you are absolutely right about my compromised values. Upon my graduation, I will have a bachelors of psychology. Combines with early childhood education dimploma I hope to find a position at the hospital, working with children. Benefits and job security are my top priorities. Would I make enough to support 5 people (two children, my parents and me)? Unlikely, I’ll be lucky to cover the rent and food. Would I compromise my children’s future? Also likely- d14 is in top 30 competitive ballroom and Latin dancers in the world, which requires insane amount of money for coaches and teachers, as well as dresses, travel and competitions. S10 is on a spectrum for ASD, also requires month worth of salary for the treatment. My mother is living off of the salary my uBPDh is paying her, father is employed by my unpdh’s brother. To say that all of my eggs are in one basket, would be an understatement. Yet, despite of this scary reality, I know I will be ok, no matter what. Yes, kids would loose a lot, but they would gain seeing mom daily. Yes, my parents would be compromised financially, but they are able bodied and would start making decision best suited for them, not dancing to my uBPDh’s tune.
I want to illustrate an interesting point in one example:
It was my best friend’s birthday this weekend, I was homesick and promised my kids to come home for the weekend. Informed my uBPDh that we need to go back. Reluctantly, he agreed. When we hit Thursday he started backpedaling, saying that he has “too much work and we are likely not come back”. Crippling anxiety and disappointment hit me like a sandstorm, I almost shrieked in dismay. Then I pulled myself together and said:” we are going home, I promised kids and you’ve promised me”. When the morning came, I told him to take the car, as we share one when we are away on business. Informed him that I was cleaning the condo and packing. I was fully prepared for him to say that we aren’t going, and bought myself a train ticket for the following morning, as an insurance. I made up my mind about attending my friend’s celebration and seeing the kids. Imagine my surprise when he came home earlier then expected, with s story how his new partners aren’t treating him with a respect he deserves and that we were driving home. I was able to cancel the ticket, and get my money back. I was also pleased and content with him following through with his promise. What is painful for me, is that he is both; unreliable and inconsistent.

[Radcliff]

Snowglobe,

Congratulations on holding the line about going back for your friend's celebration!  How was it!

I can completely relate to how scary it can be to take a stand when it seems like the other person holds all the control and can take away things we depend on, and totally turn our lives upside down.  But we've both found that constantly giving them what they want doesn't work either.  I am impressed with how you are staring your fears in the face and realizing that if the worst happens, you will get by.  Until we can make peace with our "worst case scenario," we are slaves unwilling to take risks by setting boundaries.

I'm glad to hear that you are starting up your university studies again!  If you keep going steady, how long until you are done?  You are setting a very important example for your daughter by investing in yourself and placing boundaries to protect family values.

WW

[formflier]

One of the "rules" that I have found for "dealing with a person with a PD" is pragmatism  As long as you are not violating a core value... .a boundary... .there are many things you could consider and try.

So... .can you sketch out a typical day for you?

How did that compare to a typical day for you before the move to a new city?


I would encourage you to put the brakes on making changes and focus on "composing your story" so you can "tell your story" at the appropriate time.  Here's why.

I can see it being incredibly confusing to anyone, perhaps especially someone with a PD... .to have you "fight your way to come with them" and then "fight your way away from them".

That's going to be a tough message to swallow... .for anyone.  So... .first... .craft your message.  Then we can work on delivery.  We also need to anticipate questions.

Last question for now.

Why not finish out this school year where everyone is, and move the kids to new location over the summer?

FF

[snowglobe]

Snowglobe,

Congratulations on holding the line about going back for your friend's celebration!  How was it!

I can completely relate to how scary it can be to take a stand when it seems like the other person holds all the control and can take away things we depend on, and totally turn our lives upside down.  But we've both found that constantly giving them what they want doesn't work either.  I am impressed with how you are staring your fears in the face and realizing that if the worst happens, you will get by.  Until we can make peace with our "worst case scenario," we are slaves unwilling to take risks by setting boundaries.

I'm glad to hear that you are starting up your university studies again!  If you keep going steady, how long until you are done?  You are setting a very important example for your daughter by investing in yourself and placing boundaries to protect family values.

WW

Dear @wentworth, thank you for coming to my post. I find that playing out my worst fears isn’t as scary as I once thought. It also enables me to detach from my uBPDh, as I don’t enjoy this parasidic lifestyle. Living off of him and belonging to him. I’ve started to experience ptsd like symptoms, ever since we started going away. I’m returning to my studies in May, that if he doesn’t cut me off financially before. It will take me full time till August to finish off. I’ve recently found out that with all the wonderful tool and non engaging in BPD drama, his drama still finds me. When we were away on the trip, I went shopping for clothes, admittedly many times. I’m not talking about self indulgence, as most of it was for kids and him too. Nothing out of ordinary or outside of our budget. Yet, he is all about control. The fact that I didn’t ask for permission, or even wanted to go out without asking him made him furious, once he saw all of my purchases. He proceeded to buy himself an ammo (we are licenced and store according to laws and regulations) 3 times as much as I did in all of the purchases. When I asked him why he spent all this money, he tells me that he was “punishing” me for buying things for the kids?. He’s currently in “obsession” mode again, this time with zombies. He is bingy watching zombie series, talks about zombie apocalypse and how he is prepared for it?. What can I say, my uBPDh is much sicker then I can explain... .we are currently on a family vacation with kids, he is still punishing me with silent treatment and insults for being a lier, I told him that I didn’t purchase 2 I tune songs, and said that d14 downloaded it for me instead from her Apple account. I’m bracing myself at every turn, telling him we don’t speak to each other rudely, or disrespectfully doesn’t do much. He spits insults at me at every turn. We have very little left to go on, and even less in common. Detaching from him gave me a sense of relief I craved all along, it’s him and not me. It also opened up the fact of how seriously mentally ill he is.

[snowglobe]

One of the "rules" that I have found for "dealing with a person with a PD" is pragmatism  As long as you are not violating a core value... .a boundary... .there are many things you could consider and try.

So... .can you sketch out a typical day for you?

How did that compare to a typical day for you before the move to a new city?


I would encourage you to put the brakes on making changes and focus on "composing your story" so you can "tell your story" at the appropriate time.  Here's why.

I can see it being incredibly confusing to anyone, perhaps especially someone with a PD... .to have you "fight your way to come with them" and then "fight your way away from them".

That's going to be a tough message to swallow... .for anyone.  So... .first... .craft your message.  Then we can work on delivery.  We also need to anticipate questions.

Last question for now.

Why not finish out this school year where everyone is, and move the kids to new location over the summer?

FF

Formflier, as always to bring valid questions to the table, I will try and explain.
Typical day for me “away” is waking up, making him coffee, massaging his feet, driving him to work, coming back home, cleaning cooking laundry, sometimes reading, sometimes going out to the mall, picking him up, making dinner, sitting beside him and watching zombie show till I start falling asleep, wash rinse repeat.
Typical day at home- waking up the kids, making breakfast, packing lunches, bringing kids to school, waking him up, massaging him to wake up, bringing him to work, running errands- university, bills, laundry, cooking, cleaning, seeing and talking to friends, doing accounting, making dinner, picking up kids from school, picking him up from work, feeding dinner, driving the kids to extracurricular activities, coming home and spending time with him, bedtime, sometimes intimate with him... .my life is full of flavours and activities, I feel productive and accomplished, moving towards a goal.
I’m all for pragmatism, which I have been practicing. Yet in my case, I was looking at this arrangement as 3 days out of a month thing, that I accompany him to, not 3 weeks out of a month. Additionally, all his nastiness is coming bubbling to the surface, such as talking hourly about sleeping with other women, in hypothesis. Although I rebuff him, I’m exhausted and disgusted beyond anything. If you enjoy me being there, it’s convenient to have a back and call girl 24/7, why won’t you be nice about it?.
Relocating the kids isn’t possible, small 2 bedroom apartment, his divorcing partner is there often, he doesn’t want to spend money on a separate living arrangement, kids have a lot going on in terms of the dancing career and therapy at home... .so it leaves me with some tough choices to make. Today, I feel that he is making it easy for me, by being his authentic sed

[formflier]

Why again is relocating kids not possible?

Are there no other places to live in the city with appropriate room?  Are there no other therapists or dance programs?

How is it that his "wants" win and yours don't?

I have a hard answer to give you to your question about "why wouldn't he be nice about it"?

The reason is he doesn't have to.

You don't "require" it to "get your goodies" (I'm mansplaining here... .please be patient... as in from a man's perspective).

He gets to be massaged, coffeed, attended to AND he gets to have his call girl fantasies... .and gets to share them with you.  Umm... .seriously... .why would your "average" guy give up that deal?

notional conversation between guys

":)ude... .I get all of this AND have this other stuff too... and my wife is cool with it. "

"no way dude... .my wife would put me on the street if I suggested a hooker... .she might even jimmy kick me... .scary stuff."

"well... .I guess we have different women.  Sure mine will grump some here and there... but she acts like she is cool with it.  So... it's cool right?"

Add in some BPDish stuff to a man and I can see even more extreme conversations or points of view.

My last thought.  It is a rare guy that will "jump over" a requirement put down by a woman to get her affection.  Most guys will figure out "what it costs" and then figure out if they are willing to "pay it".

Can you see this "point of view"?  I'm not suggesting that guys points of view are right or wrong... .but I assure you there is a large population of guys that think like this.

FF

[snowglobe]

Why again is relocating kids not possible?

Are there no other places to live in the city with appropriate room?  Are there no other therapists or dance programs?

How is it that his "wants" win and yours don't?

I have a hard answer to give you to your question about "why wouldn't he be nice about it"?

The reason is he doesn't have to.

You don't "require" it to "get your goodies" (I'm mansplaining here... .please be patient... as in from a man's perspective).

He gets to be massaged, coffeed, attended to AND he gets to have his call girl fantasies... .and gets to share them with you.  Umm... .seriously... .why would your "average" guy give up that deal?

notional conversation between guys

":)ude... .I get all of this AND have this other stuff too... and my wife is cool with it. "

"no way dude... .my wife would put me on the street if I suggested a hooker... .she might even jimmy kick me... .scary stuff."

"well... .I guess we have different women.  Sure mine will grump some here and there... but she acts like she is cool with it.  So... it's cool right?"

Add in some BPDish stuff to a man and I can see even more extreme conversations or points of view.

My last thought.  It is a rare guy that will "jump over" a requirement put down by a woman to get her affection.  Most guys will figure out "what it costs" and then figure out if they are willing to "pay it".

Can you see this "point of view"?  I'm not suggesting that guys points of view are right or wrong... .but I assure you there is a large population of guys that think like this.

FF

Wow, @Formflier, thank you for interpreting this through the man’s lease. Although it’s pretty straight forward I can’t say that I’m insightful about men’s logic in general. Regarding why I don’t relocate the kids- simple answer- because he isn’t letting me. All of the logistics could be easily dealt with, it’s the financial resources that he isn’t willing to provide to relocate them. Additionally, he is arguing that once his company is public and he begins to sell his shares, over a 12 months to 14 months period he will cease to go to the other state. Until then, it’s too much “head ache” and financial investments he isn’t willing to make.
Back to why wouldn’t he be nice about it- you are absolutely right, because he doesn’t have to. 17 years of being together taught him, that once he puts enough pressure I back off to keep some form of peace and equilibrium for the children’s sake. We are currently on two weeks vacation with the children. The vacation began with “usual” silent treatment, insults and splitting coming my way. All for an insignificant white lie, something I just mumbled not to get into further argument. Big mistake on my part, I’m either his “mommy” all powerful, saint or the biggest sinner and  despised person who’s walked the face of the earth. Pragmatic and practical side of our relationship dictated for me not to fight fire with fire. I validated, using Set and persevered in the face of the accusations. Tonight’s dinner was already tolerable, he is starting to talk to me, and the kids seem to enjoy his company. Formflier, I want to address you personally. I believe in paying forward and unconditional goodness one needs to bring to this society in order to fullfill it’s destiny. Wherever you are, you are in my prayers often. You have successfully taught me and guided me through BPD hell, sure I can’t escape or avoid it, but what I can now is to navigate through it, knowing that it’s a part of the cycle. I have the tools to protect my fragile ego and suffering mental state, long enough to bring myself and kids safely to shore. I’m now looking at our relationships in a different way. We are symbiosis of two mentally unhealthy individuals, intertwined and codependent. I used to think, that just as in case of parasidic relationships, if the host would die, so will the parasite. After all of the support I’ve received here, I know that I’m more of the moss on the side of the three trunk. Sure, the tree may cease to exist, it can transform into a dead log. The moss will still survive. Thank you, you have made my life more barable

[formflier]

Hey... .thanks for the kind words!  You are where I was a year or two ago.  Scratching your head and kinda getting it and then "putting your lens back on" and looking at the world "as you see it" and wondering why things don't work.

The ability to "walk a mile in someone else's shoes" is critical.  Even if you "don't agree with" where they are walking... .or what shoes they wear... etc etc.

It helps empathy... .it helps understanding.


Now... .on to "white lies".   I used to do that.  I thought I was doing a favor... .and many times I honestly didn't know what to say, while at the same time my wife came at me so hard with accusation or "theories"... .so I would exclaim "I don't know anything about that... ."... .knowing darn good and well that I had over half of the puzzle, but I'm the kinda guy that likes to speak when I "know" and for the rest keep quiet.

My wife claimed I was a liar.  I was a liar.    See how that's not something you want to validate.  My wife had a point (even though I didn't agree with it).

Anyway... .now  "I'm not comfortable discussing that right now... " or "it doesn't work for me to discuss this right now... .how about Saturday over lunch?" 

ffw:  You know you have been caught and that's why you won't talk now... etc etc

ff:  I don't have conversations with disrespect between us.  (buuuuh bye... .later... .)

ffw will do what she does

Honestly... .it's been months since something like that has happened, she "knows" what I will do now.


Last:  I'm a retired Naval Officer.  I'm also one of those guys that "always" has a bunch of business things going on the side.  I'm an MBA student at nationally ranked business school at the moment.

I have gotten "tunnel vision" on business projects before.  Most successful people do.

I'm not declaring your husband a success, but what I hear about him and how he approaches his business "rings true" with me for someone that can make it.

It also rings true that many successful guys "neglect" their personal relationships.

It also rings true that many successful guys can "be a bit unique" or even "odd".

Many successful guys have ideas (sometimes many of them) that fail before getting it right.  So even if this fails... .you see where I'm going.

Like I used to be, there was so much detail in my stories... .I related everything... and this... and that... .and this...   The "real thing" got lost.

I want you to think about your "real thing".  or perhaps "main thing" 

I don't think it's dance lessons... .I don't think it is massages... .I want you to think about it and give me one sentence that sums up "your thing"

Once we help you identify that... .we need to focus on that.  Improving that will change your life.

Thoughts?

FF

[snowglobe]

Like I used to be, there was so much detail in my stories... .I related everything... and this... and that... .and this...   The "real thing" got lost.

I want you to think about your "real thing".  or perhaps "main thing" 

I don't think it's dance lessons... .I don't think it is massages... .I want you to think about it and give me one sentence that sums up "your thing"

Once we help you identify that... .we need to focus on that.  Improving that will change your life.

Thoughts?

FF

It’s very powerful! Your ability to see through my words, even if some of it is lost in translation, I’m fluent in two languages, so the sentences keep on flipping in my head.
I’m tired of being in a state of dormant, keeping this relationships afloat, doing all the heavy lifting alone. You probably remember, just this past fall I fought tooth and nail to be able to be on these business trips with him. I did not know then what kind of sacrifice I would have to make, giving up on seeing my children. I’m also fighting for control?. Does it come through as such? I want to be in control for when I come, and when I go back... .it isn’t working. His black/white thinking is not tolerating ambiguity. All or nothing, either I accompany every trip and stay for the entirety of it, or stay home and don’t “complain” if he fills the gaps with new “friendships” and activities. I can’t be without the “purpose”, I need to be active and busy in order to feel happy. I haven’t been. I also give out my goodies for “free”, thus he doesn’t have to work for being reinforced. When I don’t, he tries to get attention in a most intimidating and hostile way. He is a driven and mostly very successful man, eccentric and BPD-ish. Whats being missed @formflier? What do you see in my posts that I don’t? It helps to get an insight from someone who just reads my post and sees something I don’t see?

[juju2]

Hi,

sorry you are having a bad time.

I believe you can use some clarity, you are not in a dire situation, no one is dying.  if o were you, I would take an hour each morning to myself, to meditate, breathe in and out. Peaceful surrounding.

facts help me.  Let's start w positives, you have a lot of negatives RUNNING you.  You are not thinking outside of the box.  Am not being critical, I just think you --and me, I do this--are our worst enemy.  First and foremost, you are captain of your life(thoughts and actions, your body, soul, spirit) you are not captain of any one else's life... .you have your own Higher Power. Each person has their own Higher Power, and it isnt you!
facts from your post:
So, your kids are doing great. 
Your mom is great.
Your husband is a hard worker, people put faith and responsibility and trust in.
You are devoted, hard worker, caring.
You have financial security.
You are able to travel, see new places.

Let's come up w 25 positive facts.
It can be something like, I have beautiful hair.
Write these down in a notebook.  Your initial 25 positive facts, add to that list, 5 more each day.
Here is another one, I have a best friend!
Read thst notebook every morning.  CHANGED ATTITUDES CHANGE MY LIFE.

I am certain, once you get a hold of the new attitude you can have, you will see your whole world differently, and new possibilities will present themselves.  It will be a natural out growth of inner work.

Pray every day for each person in your family, and name each other person who you are going to start praying for.

I have to get out of my own head to be able to see.

Stick close to this wonderful, caring community!

peace, joy, love

j

[formflier]

So... .your biggest issue that you need to think through is how you will explain and own "getting what you want" yet not being "happy".


There is no way around that.  I wouldn't rush to figure this out, but reflect on it for a while.  The last thing you want to do is "fight for" another "set of demands" get it... .yet still be unhappy. 

It's up in the air if he is "listening" to you right now.  He was listening to you... right?  Do you see that?

Again... .women (please I realize some could read "sexist FF statement here... .please don't) tend to be more complicated... .guys are much more linear... .  Women have more details... .guys have very few... .or perhaps one (you want to guess?)

So... .it is critical that you understand that he likely sees it as "moving mountains" for the relationship that you came with him... .he is likely proud of that... .he will take you leaving personally  And I'll be frank... .he should (when limiting the "view" to just one issue).

Now... .relationships can "survive" a couple of these, especially if there is a strong consistent message that makes sense to him of "why". 

Why is this important?  Again... this is FF view.  I don't think he wants other women, I think those are empty threats.  He realizes the threats work and does what he needs to "get his goodies" (you). 

If you "stop making sense" and if he "stops getting his goodies"... .from his point of view... ."what's the point?"  Now... there could be real danger of him deciding the relationship doesn't matter.

Read that a few times.  It's reading tea leaves, but it makes sense to me (a guy). 

I wonder how other guys see this?

Listen... it makes sense to lots of guys to go away, work their butts off... .bring home the bacon, enjoy fruits of their labor (that's you)... .wash rinse repeat. 

When they are off in "guy land"... .it can be bawdry locker room talk.  In my experience it's the ones that are quiet that are actually "scoring"... and they guys that run their mouths are good at "running their mouths".

Your husband has figured out he can "run his mouth" and get what he wants. 

Oh... the business partner.  All guys know guys that (supposedly) nail everything in sight.  Those guys like to talk a big game but if you ask for "gun camera footage"... .or dig into details (reality)... .no b@lls  (oh no... .a FF video is coming)

https://youtu.be/Jpropo0WGn0

It's funny because it's true... .guys talking bragging... .and wrecking...

Now... I could be wrong... .but you got really hooked (IMO) into this "I"m going to be there so my hubby doesn't (fill in the blank) with other women".  I want to cast "appropriate" doubt on if that would have actually happened, had you not gone.

 


FF

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Dkandy, What would you like to see happen?  I'm unsure.  Lucky Jim

[Radcliff]

Thank you, formflier, for that Dukes of Hazard dose of culture!  But, I have to say, those 21st century remakes are not the real deal.  Try this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPHnfcg6sPA

Notice those bulbous incandescent bulb light bars!  Look Ma, no LEDs!  Now that's the real deal!

Sorry, Snowglobe, boys will be boys... .

OK, so this all seems to make pretty good sense... .you asked to go on the trip, and are now miserable.  You are realizing that being away from your kids is against your family values, and keeps you from feeling productive and engaged with kids, school, friends, etc.  It makes sense to make a move to be more in line with your values, but formflier has a point, that it would help if you help your husband understand.

A couple of things come to mind.  One is taking responsibility for the fact that you got what you asked for when you got to come with him.  Another is to think about if there's an arrangement that might strike a balance.  I am imagining if I were working my butt off far away from home, I'd want to be acknowledged for that, I wouldn't want to be made to feel guilty for it.  If my wife came out to visit me and support me, I'd be really happy.  But if she also left me alone to work very hard, I'd also be happy.  Could it be that living with your kids, but making periodic visits to your husband to boost his moral and support him might work?  Flip the situation that you are currently in?  Can you sell it to him so it actually sounds like a better arrangement from his perspective?  You are "getting out of his way" so he can focus on business and the great IPO, but coming out periodically to support him?

WW

[Red5]

Thank you, formflier, for that Dukes of Hazard dose of culture!  But, I have to say, those 21st century remakes are not the real deal.  Try this:

https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=mPHnfcg6sPA

Notice those bulbous incandescent bulb light bars!  Look Ma, no LEDs!  Now that's the real deal!

Sorry, Snowglobe, boys will be boys... .

WW

Dukes of Hazard... .love it !

I was raised up on that stuff,

A mans perspective, so I was in the military as well as formflier, and we used to spend months/sometimes up to a year or even more deployed, sometimes onboard ship, sometimes in the "dirt" someplace far far away in some foreign land and culture... .formflier is correct, the noisy ones are just that, "noise"... .its the quiet ones that are on the prowl.

I have been around the world five times, and have served with all kinds of personalities, from my perspective, when you are far away doing "man" stuff (I am old school, not sexist )... .that is an environment that is extremely masculine, so boys will be boys (back in the day)... .

Would I have liked to have seen my pretty child bride wife standing there on the pier waiting for me, and welcoming me into some far away liberty port when the ship pulled in, you bet !

But when the ship pulled back out to sea, that time was over, and it was back to business.

Try this video out... .

https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=rC4GlTbQtDg&list=PL4BKxa43kiY6_2gbJEoGJRbxk2-YY_hxM&index=26

Best regards, Red5

[Radcliff]

Hey Snowglobe,

I hope we're not distracting you with all of our video fun 

I think formflier and Red5's Navy examples are some very clear illustrations, but this concept of a guy going off and doing stereotypically guy stuff (war, building bridges, climbing mountains, whatever) and periodically reuniting with our wives is a very general cultural thing -- it is part of how we are programmed.  The woman waiting at home and providing love and support from a distance (letters, e-mails) with periodic reunions, that's also a exalted gender stereotype.  I feel a little awkward talking up gender stereotypes (for goodness' sake) so feel free to make war, build bridges and climb mountains, but my intent is to point out that what we are thinking you want near term -- a life centered around your home, while still interacting with your husband enough so he doesn't stray -- may fit a narrative that's already programmed into his head that you can tap into.

Let us know if you think we're on track here or if we're hopelessly lost in some guy delusion

WW

[snowglobe]

Hi,

sorry you are having a bad time.

I believe you can use some clarity, you are not in a dire situation, no one is dying.  if o were you, I would take an hour each morning to myself, to meditate, breathe in and out. Peaceful surrounding.

facts help me.  Let's start w positives, you have a lot of negatives RUNNING you.  You are not thinking outside of the box.  Am not being critical, I just think you --and me, I do this--are our worst enemy.  First and foremost, you are captain of your life(thoughts and actions, your body, soul, spirit) you are not captain of any one else's life... .you have your own Higher Power. Each person has their own Higher Power, and it isnt you!
facts from your post:
So, your kids are doing great. 
Your mom is great.
Your husband is a hard worker, people put faith and responsibility and trust in.
You are devoted, hard worker, caring.
You have financial security.
You are able to travel, see new places.

Let's come up w 25 positive facts.
It can be something like, I have beautiful hair.
Write these down in a notebook.  Your initial 25 positive facts, add to that list, 5 more each day.
Here is another one, I have a best friend!
Read thst notebook every morning.  CHANGED ATTITUDES CHANGE MY LIFE.

I am certain, once you get a hold of the new attitude you can have, you will see your whole world differently, and new possibilities will present themselves.  It will be a natural out growth of inner work.

Pray every day for each person in your family, and name each other person who you are going to start praying for.

I have to get out of my own head to be able to see.

Stick close to this wonderful, caring community!

peace, joy, love

j

Dead @J, thank you for your kind response. I’m very greatful for the opportunities that come my way, yet by all means they aren’t free. When I look at the bigger picture, I realize that an expensive vacation can’t substitute my husband not talking to me and belittling me in front of my children from the first day we got here. I also don’t have any security, financial or otherwise, if it’s in some form is dependent on my uBPDh. If I play nice, and do everything he tells me to do, I might get a bone thrown to me, if I don’t, his favourite go get a job. I’ll see how you will sing a different tune, he says. Get a job as a cleaning lady, go pimp yourself out (all the while knowing I have education and skill, always choosing something demeaning). I’m feeling hopeless at the moment, these relationships aren’t likely do get better, my motivation isn’t enough and I feel depleted

[juju2]

Hi,

What I am sharing is from my own experience.

When I have a change of attitude, which aligns with my core values, my thinking, my actions, my relationships all change!

Please get in to action around what i shared w you.
When you start to experience a changed attitude you will notice peace, joy and ease around your life and what is important to you.  Things that used to baffle you, you will intuitively know how to handle.
You have ceased fighting everything and everyone.


I also go to al anon, there are meetings everywhere.  Do the 12 steps, I meet w my sponsor once a week, and am in service to my community.
When I give to someone else, a stranger, thru community service, my whole world changes  --my issues get worked out.



I got so bad in 2016, my thinking became distorted and i lost myself, my r/s tanked.

I hit bottom.

Bless you
J

[snowglobe]

Dear @FF,
Thank you so much for explaining my setuation from guys pov, I can tell that you are spot on, as my husband, when intoxicated starts “confessing” the same things. My issue isn’t that I’m not willing to stay with him, it’s the fact of being insulted, put down, disrespected that create hurt and resentment in me, when I don’t see my kids. When we are at home, and he does the same thing, I have a distraction or caring for my children, so I don’t notice it. When we are away on a business trip, I m there for only his purposes, and when he does what he does, it creates Pain, resentment and void. The one I fill by shopping... .I realize that I have a problem, I substitute my pain with some behaviour. I don’t drink, I don’t cheat, I no longer speed, so I buy myself things to keep the pain at bay. It’s a very short high, let me tell ya. I don’t spend more then I normally would in a month, so hurting family budget isn’t an issue. It’s the actual act that is worry some for me. I recognize it, and I decided to seek help for myself. It’s hard to be a member of aa group, and. I’m away 2 weeks out of a month. Still, I want to give it a shot.
I’m not making waves at this moment, I don’t want to create further termoil, so my decision will have to wait. Meanwhile, I’m dealing with another ruined vacation. A day before we left I told him a white lie, he found out almost instantly. Now I’m a lier, being called it in front of the children. He isn’t taking to me, when he does it’s only to put me down in front of the children. He is so disregulated, that in attempt to extract a reaction from me he started giving d14 alcohol! I’m so miserable, I just want to take the kids and go home. When you take BPD behaviour as a singular, it’s easy to rebuff and manage. When you take several onions layers, it’s becomes toxic environment for kids and my own sanity. I’m taking the kids to another resort for massage, letting him chill out. Can’t deal with anymore drama, or having to explain to a grown man, that giving alcohol to a minor is a. Offends, b. She isn’t able to process it, c. He doesn’t want to make it desirebale or acceptable. He is disgusting in my eyes, with only 2 beds in a room, he is alternating sleeping with each child per night. IMHO sleeping with a 14 yo daughter doesn’t seem healthy, I observe elements of emotional incest.

[snowglobe]

Hey Dkandy, What would you like to see happen?  I'm unsure.  Lucky Jim

First, I would like to see my husband in dbt therapy, second, I would like the insults to stop, third I would like to see a comprehensive schedule of his “work arrangement”, predictable and dependent, when he tells me that we are going for 4 days, we stay for 4 days and leave, being replaced my my iBPDh’s partner. Not stay 2 weeks

[formflier]

  third I would like to see a comprehensive schedule of his “work arrangement”, predictable and dependent, when he tells me that we are going for 4 days, we stay for 4 days and leave, being replaced my my iBPDh’s partner. Not stay 2 weeks

Knowing what you know about your husbands work.  Is this reasonable?

My last couple trips to take care of business matters did not end up as I planned.  I got a lot of stuff done.  Could I have come back on the exact date and time that I figured I would, sure... .but there would have been a cost in stuff not getting done.

Before you discuss this idea with your hubby, please understand that there will be a cost.  That is something to evaluate ahead of time.

I don't think it is unusual when trying to take a business "to the next level" that schedule changes happen.

Do you? 

[formflier]

I would like the insults to stop, 

I'm going to be frank with you here.  They are not going to stop until they stop working for your hubby.  Right now he does it because they work for him and you apparently listen to them...

This is completely doable by YOU... .let your husband insult all he wants.  It's his mouth.  He controls it.  They are your ears... .take them somewhere else and don't listen.

Don't be part of it.

Sure... .you will hear just a bit as he gets started, we will help you with some boundary statements and then you move your ears.

Still being straight with you here.  I think this is the place to start.  I think this is eating at your heart and soul.  Once he realizes that insults don't work, I think it will "loosen up" the rest of the relationship for changes.

Said another way... .as long as you keep participating in the insults, I don't see much changing.

What do you think?

FF

[formflier]

My issue isn’t that I’m not willing to stay with him, it’s the fact of being insulted, put down, disrespected that create hurt and resentment in me, when I don’t see my kids. When we are at home, and he does the same thing, I have a distraction or caring for my children, so I don’t notice it. 

I realize you may not notice it as much at home.  I get the thought of distractions.  I want to encourage you to be consistent with boundaries.

Trying to show your hubby that it's ok to insult you at home and not on a "just the two of you" trip isn't going to work  It's just not.

A value statement for you.  "I won't listen to insults."  Right to the point.  It's about protecting you.

Think you can do this?  How do you think you would feel about your life if... say... .90% of the insults were not heard.


FF

[formflier]

Can you reflect for a bit on the decisions leading up to telling a lie to you husband?

I'm not defending his reaction, especially telling the kids... I am wanting you to focus on your part in this, because you are here... .you have the ability and power to change this relationship in dramatic ways. 

At the moment... .I'm doubtful you see and understand that power.

Do you want your relationship to change?  Are you ready?

FF