Totally confused...UBPDx is repeatedly saying she wants the war to end

[MarkTwain]

Totally confused... .

UBPDx is repeatedly saying she wants the war to end she's not fighting me for custody anymore and she just wants peace.

Yet we still have a 1wk trial scheduled this fall, no change when maintenance enforcement took my license due to "arrears" not loco parentis for one, in my custody for the other, court ordered in sept, but paper orders didn't have the exact verbiage they demanded - she refused to make a phone call to end the chaos. Now unemployed as it took 6 weeks to get an order on paper. Refused to return son at Christmas until she had a major police involved fight with her daughter (who now lives with grandma) - as she decided I was psychologically unstable.

She's still engaging in put downs attempted alienation on every visit.

But this "stop the war" crap has me confused. What's the goal here? She's saying it to the lawyers and judge too. Trying to act civil to put me off guard? I can't see her ever giving up on the custody issue.

I'm so very confused? What's she thinking? What's her plan?

[MarkTwain]

More emails today... .

Psychologist for the bilateral assesment contacted us to book appointments... .

She refuses. She will not participate in the assesment. She will not suffer any more abuse at my hands, and people questioning her parenting abilities. That's what she told psychologist, mine and my son's lawyer... .

?

Ok so is this what it's really all about? Avoid the psychologist at all costs so as not to get diagnosed with an issue? It's ordered, I don't know how she figures she can ignore it. Giving up the custody fight to save face?

I'm so very confused.

[Panda39]

Hi Mark,

None of us knows what is going through your wife's mind.  She might just be feeling tired of it all for a day who knows? Like you said she might be afraid of embarrassment or shame.  The thing is that those are her feelings and her issues. It seems that your energy would be better spent on yourself and your kids.  She is gonna do what she's gonna do and she is going to have to deal with the consequences of her actions.

Panda39

[livednlearned]

Psychologist for the bilateral assesment contacted us to book appointments... .

Is this part of a custody evaluation, and if so, do you feel your lawyer has helped prepare you?

There is a lot of collective wisdom on this board if you want support.

Like panda39 recommends, it's a good idea to ignore what's going on with your ex and focus instead on you.

Psychologists see a lot of parents who are overly focused on the ex spouse, and it can put a big dent in the assessment. Do you have any unanswered questions about what to expect with this assessment?

[ForeverDad]

You are seeing how determined she is to not allow a crack in her public face, her Mask of Seeming Normalcy.  Denial is one of the hallmark traits of BPD.  Yes, she can, in essence and as the saying goes, bite off her nose to spite her face.  Court won't stop that.  Neither can you.

It is not your job to police her or her life, she is an adult after all.  It is not your problem if she refuses to comply with the court order.  However, there are consequences that you should not let her avoid.  If she refuses to submit to the evaluation then possibly the court will not force her to do so beyond the current Order.  However, that gives you or your lawyer the opportunity to ask the court, "unless and until Ex complies with the ordered evaluation and the court considers those results and expert's recommendations we ask that M.Twain become custodial parent (or at least have Decision Making or Tie Breaker status) and majority time parent."

It is not unreasonable to seek the best for the children.  If her claim is she wants to step away and stop the conflict, that's okay, it's her right to decide to do so.  However, if she is just guilting you into appeasing her and retreating back to the old status quo then don't take that path, it won't end well for you.

[MarkTwain]

Current scenario is I have custody due to child's disclosures of abuse.

DFS has been useless. Even with the police involved fight between her and her daughter - they are more concerned about my mental health (stress / depression)

Concern is it's taken 3yrs to get here... .If she "stops the fight" now - who's to say in a year she won't be starting it up again next year? And starting anew - hoping for different judge (we're in a court program where it's always the same judge, always the same counsel (judge's assistant whatever) and everything has to go through them) needless to say it's not going as she expected.

It took over a year just to get son's lawyer ordered and assigned - about 2 years to get the bilateral assesment ordered and covered by legal aid and find a decent psychologist who'll work at that rate, and get through the waiting list. Trial on custody is still almost a year away... .

I know I'm predicting/forecasting, but I don't see this as a fight she would abandon - and I sure can't give her benefit of the doubt based on recent history.

Just feels like a consent order at this point - if she's able to restart the battle again in a year or whenever... .It's like a major setback... .

I've been strong for 4+ years, everything's finally coming into place... .But it's taken its toll - I don't know how much more I can take.

[Nope]

In my experience, "want to stop the fight" really means "I'm losing, so I need you to stop." My DH's ex did this twice. Once right before she was found guilty of contempt for blocking his contact with the kids and then again right before the big custody trial. Both times it was suddenly "We need to stop this and be adults and work this out between us for the sake of the kids." Of course she could have said that any time in the four years everything had been going on up to that point. But she had no interest in stopping until it became clear she was on the ropes.

You are probably exactly right that you can expect to be back in court if she once again thinks she has a chance at getting things her way. I can relate to wanting to call it quits. It's exhausting, expensive, time consuming, and emotionally draining. It does sound like you're making some great progress in getting the situation to a livable place.

[livednlearned]

I've been strong for 4+ years, everything's finally coming into place... .But it's taken its toll - I don't know how much more I can take.

It does take a toll. I do think the expense of court and the financial hit we take adds to our emotional/psychological strain.

How resilient our kids are also makes a difference.

For me, things got easier, though I'm not sure I can exactly pinpoint why. Even when the stress of court was still a factor (my ex was a former trial attorney and kept us in court more than most), I started to feel less jacked up by the drama. Court antics started to feel more like a nuisance. I guess as time went on and the catastrophes I conjured in my mind didn't come to pass, I looked around and things were actually going ok, in spite of the BPD nuttery.

Stick to what you are doing if you believe it's the right thing for the kids, regardless of what she says or does. And expect that things will swing wildly as she manages her intense emotions and grief.

[MarkTwain]

39 visits to court so far... .She's gone through 19 lawyers, I'm on #2. The judge has expressed his anger at the number of court appearances already (she's dragged me in 36x, I've been the cause of 3 - all with proper documentation, not just allegations)

The personal toll has been insane. My life has revolved around the ranting and raving of mad woman. Financial, physical, relationships, mental health, career fallout had ruined me.

I'm 100% focused on my son's needs. That's all that matters. And his sister's, but - I have 0 influence there, and the borderline breeds borderline is evident sadly.

I need some stability, if the fights over it needs to be over for good. Not just until she wants to drag me back into the courts again. I need this done and over with for good. I can't handle trying to get back on my feet again for a 4th or 5th time and having the rug yanked out from under me again... .

I just don't know how to make that happen. How does one make an order stick to avoid the insanity that we know will ensue?

[ForeverDad]

Have you sought a gatekeeping order or something similar?  L&L's judge surprised her and ordered one.  What it did was require a judge to review and approve a new motion before it would be accepted.  It limited the constant filing of endless new claims and complaints to just those that were somewhat credible.

Some states have laws addressing vexatious litigants but that is triggered so seldom it's not something many can hope for.

[jenbren2006]

I am a true believe that if you want this to stop you need to sign over your parental rights.  I know that's not what you want to hear but trained professionals-therapists-are telling us this is the only way out. 
After 3.5 years of fighting this is what my husband will be doing by the end of the year.
In the first year alone we had 12 emergency custody motions filed on us and 16 calls to the police + some visits to our home.  Over new years he had to go through a 2 week CPS investigation thanks to his ex and oldest 14 year old son who accused him of abuse again!  This son we believe is borderline/sociopathic as well.  She has him completely trained and he could care less about his father.
We moved 1000 miles away thinking this would get better-the cop calls lessened but she just flaired up in the courts instead.  Our judge allows her to manipulate her and we will never get more than 50/50 custody.  He just put in a motion stating that the kids are missing excessive amounts of school and failing grades all on her time-the judge did nothing and would hardly even listen to my husband-Colorado is a joke!  On his time his parents have the children right now.  Our judge told him that if he does not move back soon she will have to give the ex wife full custody.
When this happens the harrassment still will not stop and it is too risky for my husband to see his children with the oldest as bad as his mother.  I refuse to allow him to go to prison based on false accusations and we also have an 11 year old daughter together that needs him too. 
He knows he will need to sign over his rights when she is awarded full custody.  Once this happens all the phone calls emails and texts are blocked and he will be a free man other than the mail post office system.  We know she will still file child support and medical issues and ask for all these crazy fees to be reimbursed but at that point that is all she can do.  Now his is court ordered to communicate with her and everyday is going through hell putting up with her abuse.  Once she can no longer abuse him she will turn it on someone else-she does have a live in boyfriend.
He will be writing letters to the kids explaining things and will write future letters as well to them.  He hopefully will have a relationship with them when they choose to do so at 18 years old (they are 10,12, and 14).  Until then we are out of options and this is the only way to find peace.

[jenbren2006]

Actually I just spoke to a Colorado attorney.  He will not be able to sign over his rights voluntarily but once she has full custody he can just not communicate with any of them.  There is no way at that point that a judge can force him to be involved and force him to interact with his ex.  He will write them letters and for the time being his parents can give them to him.  If she does not allow them to see my husbands parents-pretty sure she will move with the children- then he can send them certified mail and make copies for when they are older and ready to have a relationship with him.

[MarkTwain]

Yeah, no. Full stop end of that discussion.

One doesn't give up on the well-being of your kids.  Especially when abuse ala BPD is involved.

[jenbren2006]

Yeah, no. Full stop end of that discussion.

One doesn't give up on the well-being of your kids.  Especially when abuse ala BPD is involved.

You have no choice if those children want to put you in prison!  What good is a father sitting in prison?

[Nope]

Mark & Jen,

The two of you have very different situations. What is best for one is not best for another. But Mark, I'm glad to hear that listening to Jen's story has only strengthened your resolve. You are in a comparitivly great position, and sometimes the reminder of the alternative is exactly what someone needs to keep them going.

[livednlearned]

UBPDx is repeatedly saying she wants the war to end she's not fighting me for custody anymore and she just wants peace.

She probably does want peace. But her disorder -- intense emotional dysregulations and severe cognitive distortions -- make it near impossible for her to locate the source of what drives the conflict, which is herself.

What happened court-wise after she struck your son? Is that what the upcoming trial is about?

[MarkTwain]

She probably does want peace. But her disorder -- intense emotional dysregulations and severe cognitive distortions -- make it near impossible for her to locate the source of what drives the conflict, which is herself.

What happened court-wise after she struck your son? Is that what the upcoming trial is about?

Not much, it's been multiple incidents, since she got visitation back after the first incident. DFS doesn't find any issue with her, they keep telling me not to coach the child to say these things. Stories somehow change when investigated by uniformed officer. And I get blamed for child knowing way too much about court proceedings.

Never coached him, I get babysitters so I can sit in the driveway and make phone calls little ears can't hear. He's never been told about court by me - beyond "a judge says you have to go to visits" during the periods he refuses to go. Luckily I can document this because I have multiple agencies involved and even though dfs says different - 4 social workers know when it comes to legal discussion I won't say a word if he's in the area.

Custody trial is next year, just laying the groundwork for that to happen still basically.

[MarkTwain]

Well... .It was a wild 25 hours from crazy emails to police calling because she sent them to others too - others who decided she was suicidal... .Not sure what happened, she did show up to court today after repeatedly saying she wouldn't. I swear she looked like she'd just OD'd last night.

Usual ranty ravy BPDself... .In the end 4 hours later - final parenting order in place, by consent. Needs leave to apply for any future changes - a significant change in childs living circumstances must be shown. And I may finally get divorced in 2 months. Thank the Lord hallelujah!

She's accepted basically every second weekend.

Maybe... .Just maybe this ordeal is behind us?

[Nope]

Congratulations! That's awesome news!

I personally believe the custody part is the worst of the ordeal in these high conflict cases because of the uncertainty they cause the kids. Though she could eventually go back to court claiming a change in circumstances, it appears she is far off from getting anywhere anytime soon based on her instability.

However, she is always going to be the kid's mom and there will be many challenges ahead. For now just give yourself permission to enjoy the great news.

[Panda39]

Good News for you and your son! 

Panda39

[ForeverDad]

Just because she consented to the order doesn't mean she won't pressure or guilt you into granting her exceptions.  I wouldn't be surprised if she does it before the end of the week.  Court has set a Boundary for her, don't feel you have to weaken it.  Her having alternating weekends places her as a typical Non-Primary Parent, that's not considered a hardship.  On the other hand, life happens and there may be some instances where you feel it appropriate to grant her extra time.  Start small before making larger concessions.  Make sure each exception stands on its own, that is, it does not obligate you to additional concessions.

Do you two alternate holidays?  I'm guessing yes but if she doesn't then one exception you can grant is letting her have Mother's Day, usually a Sunday in mid-May.

I'm guessing too you have joint custody?  If so, do you have at least Decision Making or Tie Breaker status for the major issues such as school, medical, religious instruction, etc?  If you get either DM or TB then you have the next best thing to full custody.  You may have to ask/inform first but then you can proceed and then it's up to her to take the legal steps to contest - afterward.

[livednlearned]

Maybe... .Just maybe this ordeal is behind us?

It's possible... .it could get quiet for a while.

It's also possible (likely) that she will continue to dysregulate because of her disorder. Depending on the severity, you might get a reprieve, it's hard to say.

BPD is an abnormality that affects emotional regulation. Emotions are easily triggered, and they can be intense. Sometimes under stress emotions flood the whole system. Emotions hit us physiologically whether BPD or not. With BPD, the emotions can peak into the extreme and affect memory, cognition. It's hard to problem solve and impulsivity goes up (fight or flight).

Having a weak sense of self, she may experience what happens to her son as though it were happening to herself, and the cognitive distortions will cause her to behave in ways that violate the court order simply because she is in some kind of survival mode.

My experience is that the ordeal continued after the parenting plan was signed, but things always ruled more or less in my favor when we had to go back to court, until I was eventually awarded full custody.

Court doesn't like repeat customers, but it's lousy at helping us make sure that doesn't happen  

So she will struggle to make good choices (for herself, affecting you), and small things will trigger her, followed by big reactions (that she may later regret).

The difference now is that, if it becomes necessary, you have an agreement with the court about what your child's routine is supposed to look like.