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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: 6 months of WHAT IS GOING ON?  (Read 684 times)
udunnome81

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« on: February 28, 2018, 02:59:55 PM »

Hello All,

So my story goes that my SO w/BPD was one day fully committed and singing me praises, 1 week later I am the devil. I understand why and how this happened. However, she did something VERY RASH.

To try and keep the children out of the fray while we either worked through our issues or worked on the divorce amicably, I drew up a POA, and our 3 boys 11, 9, and 2 (at the time) went to stay with my parents 3 hours away.

As soon as our boys were taken care of, instead of actually doing anything about the marriage, my wife(?) picked up divorce paperwork, filled it out (partially) and filed it with the clerk of courts. This was on a Friday. She applied for the filing cost and the service of paperwork fee to be waived and it was approved, however she left day after she entered the paperwork. She never got the paperwork to the sheriffs office, so I was not served with the paperwork. Also, she was in such a hurry that she did not complete the child support section and for custody she said that she wants every Christmas and every summer.

Where she didn't get the paperwork handled correctly (child support section missing), the judge will not be able to enter a decree, even if I had been served. She then requested that I serve myself the incomplete paperwork. Especially where I do not agree to any of the terms. She didn't provide accurate information about our finances, and cannot in good conscience sign this paperwork.

Now I have to wait an entire year (about half a year now) for her initial filing to expire before I can file myself. Where I have not been served we are still 100% legally married. I figured out before she left that there was another person involved. When she left, she actually left the state and moved 1300+ miles away to be with this guy she was "talking to" from her hometown. She still denies this but I have social media posts to prove it.

Up to this point, as expected, she has tried to assassinate my character and has been very difficult to work with. Trying to be nice, I had been letting her call and speak to our boys each night, however she tells them that she is happy there, and really won't say anything about herself, so it is just bringing down the boys' mood.

She provides no financial support, as in 6 months she still has not gotten a job. She wants me to have the boys go to visit her over the summer and she states that she will send them back to me at the end of the summer, but with all the lies she has already told (going as far as to accuse me of abuse) I don't trust her to keep her word.

Then she got the idea to hold our tax filing hostage unless I will agree to send the boys to her for the summer. I advised her that the two issues are separate issues and should not be put together as an either or. I advised her that without a signed custody order from the court, I will not let the boys out of my custody. To this told me that, as I already know, we are still married, so she could come to the boys' school pick them up and take them out of state and there would be nothing I could do, which as far as I know is legally true, regardless if she abandoned them or not.

However, whenever we try to work together to discuss anything, she disrespects me and hangs up on me. I've tried to meet her terms on many issues, however when I meet these requests she rejects her initial idea and then wants something else.

Finally, I decided, if she is not going to be reasonable and respectful to me, that I am no longer answering her calls. I am not bound by SD Parenting guidelines as I have not been served divorce papers. I have let the boys know that they can call her whenever they would like to. That is not an issue for me at all. The problem is that she doesn't answer when anyone calls her unless it is when she wants the call. Always trying to exert control of everything.

My issue is that I don't believe my approach is being vindictive or anything, I just want to stop the control she is trying to exert over our lives. As it was, we were having to plan our evenings at home everynight around her calls, and she ABANDONED me and them.

Sorry if I started to ramble. So much going on and just trying to make reasonable informed decisions. If you have questions or suggestions, please let me know.

Thank you!
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2018, 04:57:31 PM »

Most orders simply state that telephone contact be 'reasonable'.  Forced daily contact leans toward the unreasonable side.  What if the kids are at the theater watching a movie, at a ball game, at the park, on sleepovers with friends or some other activity.  What if they're asleep?

For a few years I lived with a magistrate's order of daily phone contact between 8 to 8:30 pm.  (My ex had complained I'd blocked phone contact one weekend, the weekend my cell phone died and ex refused to call the home line.  And of course that magistrate made the order without even asking my side of events.)  That impacted just about anything we wanted to do in evenings.  With reasonably normal parents it's not an issue but we all know that BPD makes a person unreasonable and easily triggered.  Finally years later another magistrate fixed those strict terms.
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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2018, 05:31:30 PM »

Do you have a lawyer working with you yet? If her filing was incompetent lete, can it be declared invalid? Or, can you counterfile with a complete and accurate documentation?

What, in your state, could move you toward a parenting plan?

I agree that without a custody agreement, you don't let the children leave the state. But there should be a way to protect against her Tao my them out of school.
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udunnome81

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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2018, 06:10:51 PM »

Do you have a lawyer working with you yet? If her filing was incompetent lete, can it be declared invalid? Or, can you counterfile with a complete and accurate documentation?

What, in your state, could move you toward a parenting plan?

I agree that without a custody agreement, you don't let the children leave the state. But there should be a way to protect against her Tao my them out of school.


To  try to get it thrown out in the state of SD, I would have to be served or accept and sign the form to serve myself. Plus for me to file for abandonment as grounds for divorce, she needs to be goNE for 12 full months. By state laws, where she left the state she is already guilty of 2 class 6 felonies. (Abandonment of 2 children under the age of 10). SDCL 25-7-16.

I really don't want her having any custody of our children for fear or the damage she has already caused and will continue to cause.

She moved 1300+ miles away... .so no real way for a parenting plan or co-parenting. Also I can see that she does not have our children's best interest at heart. She want's the kids so that her family will stop saying that they are suprised she left the kids. It's  so she can say, look I am a mom.

I cannot counterfile, I have been told. They said I have to wait the year for the paperwork to fall off. Not sure if that is true 9r not, but I need the full year before I can file on grounds of abandonment anyways.
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2018, 10:38:45 PM »

One item very much in your favor is that by her leaving you have become The Parent With (Recent) History of Majority Parenting Time.  That is far more than many of us fathers here had.  Yes, without an order you are in a legal quagmire where you both have "equal but undefined rights" and so what she can challenge you about is up in the air but having virtually 100% parenting time for the past 6 months is a real plus.  History of Majority Time is in your favor.

However, now that she has lived in another state for 6 months then that time passage may qualify her to file there for custody.  To standardize requirements between states, federal law requires a parent to establish 6 months of residency before filing in a different court or state.

I guess what I'm saying is you may have to try for some sort of assigned recognition as Primary Parent before she thinks to start a case there.  Is there any way to secure that without a divorce case?  Or am I overthinking it?  Do you have legal advice (relatively inexpensive, you don't have to 'retain' a lawyer to get a consultation) from a few local family law attorneys?  Best to consult a few so that you get a good range of advice and strategies.

Also, she probably can't demand complete summers.  Summer Breaks are often about 11 weeks.  Remember, you as a parent can declare vacations and many states allow at least 2 and sometimes 3 weeks for vacations.

Strange that she's only asking for a Winter Break, don't tell her but I suspect some remote parents get many of the larger periods off school such as Spring Break too.  A typical schedule will have parents alternating all holidays but if she is remote and with limited visitation, I'm not sure how that is handled.
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2018, 06:33:39 AM »

BPD relationships are tough  I'm so sorry you're going through this right now. The grief of the relationship is one thing, and then finding yourself a single parent to distraught kids is another. How are you holding up?

I really don't want her having any custody of our children for fear or the damage she has already caused and will continue to cause.

Are your kids now living with you again? Do the oldest ones have access to a therapist or counselor they can talk to?
 
Excerpt
I need the full year before I can file on grounds of abandonment anyways.

Are you concerned she might return and try to relocate the kids?
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2018, 08:38:28 AM »

One item very much in your favor is that by her leaving you have become The Parent With (Recent) History of Majority Parenting Time.  That is far more than many of us fathers here had.  Yes, without an order you are in a legal quagmire where you both have "equal but undefined rights" and so what she can challenge you about is up in the air but having virtually 100% parenting time for the past 6 months is a real plus.  History of Majority Time is in your favor.

However, now that she has lived in another state for 6 months then that time passage may qualify her to file there for custody.  To standardize requirements between states, federal law requires a parent to establish 6 months of residency before filing in a different court or state.

I guess what I'm saying is you may have to try for some sort of assigned recognition as Primary Parent before she thinks to start a case there.  Is there any way to secure that without a divorce case?  Or am I overthinking it?  Do you have legal advice (relatively inexpensive, you don't have to 'retain' a lawyer to get a consultation) from a few local family law attorneys?  Best to consult a few so that you get a good range of advice and strategies.

Also, she probably can't demand complete summers.  Summer Breaks are often about 11 weeks.  Remember, you as a parent can declare vacations and many states allow at least 2 and sometimes 3 weeks for vacations.

Strange that she's only asking for a Winter Break, don't tell her but I suspect some remote parents get many of the larger periods off school such as Spring Break too.  A typical schedule will have parents alternating all holidays but if she is remote and with limited visitation, I'm not sure how that is handled.

Luckily for me, My children were born and have always lived in the state of South Dakota. They are residents of South Dakota and the state will not recognize trying to change their residency for her to get a custody order in the state she lives in. (Another reason why I don't want them to go to her for the summer).
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udunnome81

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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2018, 08:51:22 AM »

BPD relationships are tough  I'm so sorry you're going through this right now. The grief of the relationship is one thing, and then finding yourself a single parent to distraught kids is another. How are you holding up?

Are your kids now living with you again? Do the oldest ones have access to a therapist or counselor they can talk to?
 
Are you concerned she might return and try to relocate the kids?

I the older 2 children in with therapists.

I have NO IDEA what she might try to do at this point. Do I think she might try to come and take the kids, quite possibly.
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udunnome81

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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2018, 09:02:02 AM »


I guess what I'm saying is you may have to try for some sort of assigned recognition as Primary Parent before she thinks to start a case there.  Is there any way to secure that without a divorce case?  Or am I overthinking it?  Do you have legal advice (relatively inexpensive, you don't have to 'retain' a lawyer to get a consultation) from a few local family law attorneys?  Best to consult a few so that you get a good range of advice and strategies.


Luckily for me, my best man is currently a lawyer with the state AG office. Unfortunately, not really used to working in family law. He put me in contact with one of the best family attorneys in the state, however I've went to him enough times that he seems frustrated. So I need to start paying... .He's a really busy guy. He is VERY familiar with BPD cases.
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2019, 03:43:50 PM »

How is this going? How are the children dealing with it?
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udunnome81

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« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2019, 04:16:20 PM »

How is this going? How are the children dealing with it?

Well, as things are now. We signed a stipulation agreement in August. Regardless of what she has done, the state wants to see that she gets parenting time, no matter how detrimental it is for the children. So she has every summer (all but the first week out of school and 2 weeks before school restarts) and every other Christmas.

She got this last Christmas, and after only 11 days with her, it has taken me months to get my 11 year old son to stop saying that he wants to kill himself (therapy 1-2x/week). And working with him a lot.

I actually tried to talk to her last night about summer vacation. And she says that she already has her leave for this summer scheduled for June 8, which will be 2-3 weeks after school is out.  (was initially May 15th, but with snow days it will probably be around the 22). Which means she would have to meet me half-way in Chicago on or around June 1st. She says she wants them on the 8th an I will get the 1 week at the end of the summer.

I told her she has no grounds to make this kind of unilateral decision. Obviously is not thinking about our children's well-being. They need that time to get re-acclimated once they return home. Our boys are set to return to school on August 28. Our oldest son's birthday is on Aug. 18th. She wants him to be with her for his birthday.

Our divorce should have been completed already, however she is stalling for some reason. Partly because she doesn't think she should have to pay back child support. I had spoke to her several weeks ago and I told her that I was ready for it to be over, and she said, "if that's what you want..." I told her that I never wanted any of this. So, I have no idea what is going on in this lady's head.

Our oldest son sees through his mother's lies. He has been known to call her on them. (only 12 years old) The boys and my mother heard a guy in the background of a phone call with their mom. She responded to him (hushing him) and then continued with the call. The boys asked her who was there and she told them..."oh, nobody...it was just the phone making a noise. Her lying at this point is pathological.

Our youngest son, only 4, has no idea what is going on. He talks to mom on the phone most nights, but it's just a voice. He loves her, and I can understand why. She is the perfect person to him. She sends HIM presents on the other boys' birthdays, coddles him, showers him with love. This just makes our oldest shake his head and say, "she loves him more because she knows I can't be bought" So he is just a wild 4 year old being enabled by mommy...

(as a note: Their mom has only been in their direct presence for 13 days in the last 2 years) She abandoned them but for appearances wants to be able to say... "see, i'm still a mom...I love my kids, but abandoned them with no cares 2 years ago.

Sorry, it still really irritates me. I spend over a year getting everything stable, to have them go to her for 11 days to have to spend until summer vacation getting them back to normal. Now she will have them for nearly 3 months, and I am terrified of what I will see when they come home in August.
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« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2019, 05:15:12 PM »

Is there any way for them to continue with therapy during the summer?  If the distance is too great, can their therapist connect with someone experienced and trusted near her city?

Another thought, are you allowed to take a vacation with them in the summer, perhaps in the middle?
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« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2019, 08:22:20 PM »

Is your parenting stipulation in the form of a court order? This is the time to hold to your boundary on changes to the plan.

 " We will follow the court order. If this summer you choose to push back the start date, you can do so. However, that doesn't change the stipulation of the end date, which is X weeks prior to the start of school. "
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« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2019, 09:12:04 PM »

Gagrl is spot on, if you have a court order, you are not required to make 'deals' or concessions you don't feel are appropriate.  Our ex-spouses are general experienced Blamers and Guilters.  That has more emotional weight than legal weight.  So be aware of that pressure.  If you cave then odds are you're being manipulated.

A dozen years ago I took my son on vacation for two weeks.  My then-stbEx said No! to my vacation notice.  (She didn't accept that it was a notice and not a request.)  Fortunately I started our vacation on my weekend.  You can guess what happened Monday... I got a call from the police.  Then from my lawyer on Wednesday.  Despite my stbEx having my phone number and she could have called our son at any time, my lawyer said to call so my son would speak to her every few days... and have a nice time.

When I got back I found out she had tried to get an Amber Alert declared.  The deputy's log stated it did not meet the criteria for Amber Alert.  So though he was the bearer of bad news to her, he diverted her frustration from himself onto the 'criteria'.

My point is that you can't avoid all confrontations.  Nor is it always practical to wheel and deal when the other person won't reciprocate similarly on other issues.  So ponder each incident or disagreement to determine how important it is in the grand scheme of things, your parenting now and in the future.
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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2019, 01:36:16 AM »

Is there any way for them to continue with therapy during the summer?  If the distance is too great, can their therapist connect with someone experienced and trusted near her city?

Another thought, are you allowed to take a vacation with them in the summer, perhaps in the middle?

She has requested their records and office visit notes, and she was planning on having them see someone there. I am against this. I have been talking with my boys' therapists and am pretty certain that, if necessary they will be able to call for their appointments. How to do this without her present I do not know.
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2019, 02:00:38 AM »

Is your parenting stipulation in the form of a court order? This is the time to hold to your boundary on changes to the plan.

 " We will follow the court order. If this summer you choose to push back the start date, you can do so. However, that doesn't change the stipulation of the end date, which is X weeks prior to the start of school. "

It is in the form of a court order. HOWEVER, it states that we are following the state "Parenting Guidelines" which makes a suggestion that since the distance is over 200 miles, that they should go ...one week after school gets out and return 2 weeks before school starts. The issue is that it is only a suggestion.

My problem with her, is that she told me that she had already requested her leave from work, without discussing the travel arrangements with me. This is the ways things have always been with her. She says what is going to happen and everyone has to comply or else all heck would break loose. What's really fun is when she doesn't know what she wants and still has an expectation that she gets what she wants...nothing is ever good enough for her.

NOW, as a followup...I did talk to her earlier this evening and essentially told her that she has lost the power to control me. That we ARE following the suggestion in the state "Parenting Guidelines" +/- a few days, and  that I wasn't going to argue about it. She tried to steer the conversation about 20 different ways to discuss everything that she says I have been a bad parent and husband. I kept bringing it back to topic, and told her that while she can feel however she wants, it is not going to affect me, as I am not responsible for her feelings.

Maybe I am being more difficult than I have to be. But if I allow her to dictate based on what she wants, she will continue to try to walk all over me. So, this time I put my foot down and said here it is... at that point we were able to "somewhat" cordially work out the +/- days to make it easier for both of us. Instead of being exactly 7 days from when they get out of school, it will be 9 days, so that we travel on the weekend and it won't interfere with our work schedules. Then the return, to get it on the weekend, is a little before they were supposed to be returned. All in all, I will get 3.5 weeks of the summer instead of just 3 weeks.

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« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2019, 02:19:07 AM »

Gagrl is spot on, if you have a court order, you are not required to make 'deals' or concessions you don't feel are appropriate.  Our ex-spouses are general experienced Blamers and Guilters.  That has more emotional weight than legal weight.  So be aware of that pressure.  If you cave then odds are you're being manipulated.

A dozen years ago I took my son on vacation for two weeks.  My then-stbEx said No! to my vacation notice.  (She didn't accept that it was a notice and not a request.)  Fortunately I started our vacation on my weekend.  You can guess what happened Monday... I got a call from the police.  Then from my lawyer on Wednesday.  Despite my stbEx having my phone number and she could have called our son at any time, my lawyer said to call so my son would speak to her every few days... and have a nice time.

When I got back I found out she had tried to get an Amber Alert declared.  The deputy's log stated it did not meet the criteria for Amber Alert.  So though he was the bearer of bad news to her, he diverted her frustration from himself onto the 'criteria'.

My point is that you can't avoid all confrontations.  Nor is it always practical to wheel and deal when the other person won't reciprocate similarly on other issues.  So ponder each incident or disagreement to determine how important it is in the grand scheme of things, your parenting now and in the future.

Unfortunately, I can't take a vacation. I have to save my leave in case the boys are sick or anything during the school year. But I am not caving to her anymore. With her, and her alone, It feels like I have taken on a bit of Narcissism myself. Not that I am trying to be mean. But just to be firm with her. Unwavering in the support of our children. She does not show the same level of commitment to them. I will not "deal" with her when it comes to our boys' well-being.
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« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2019, 08:44:16 AM »

after only 11 days with her, it has taken me months to get my 11 year old son to stop saying that he wants to kill himself (therapy 1-2x/week). And working with him a lot.

Oof. That's hard to read.

What does his T think about spending the summer with mom?
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« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2019, 07:12:36 AM »

It sounds like this is going to be a horrendous summer.

Have you talked to a lawyer about the kinds of evidence you would need to reduce her parenting time?   Your son saying he wants to kill himself sounds pretty awful.  If the T agrees, after this break, that it's not best for him to be around mom for that much uninterrupted time, that might help you make a case.

It is standard for a healthy, functioning parent who lives far away to get the entire summer.  That's not what is best when the parent far away is neither mentally healthy or stable. 
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« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2019, 02:36:21 PM »

It sounds like this is going to be a horrendous summer.

Have you talked to a lawyer about the kinds of evidence you would need to reduce her parenting time?   Your son saying he wants to kill himself sounds pretty awful.  If the T agrees, after this break, that it's not best for him to be around mom for that much uninterrupted time, that might help you make a case.

It is standard for a healthy, functioning parent who lives far away to get the entire summer.  That's not what is best when the parent far away is neither mentally healthy or stable. 

Oof. That's hard to read.

What does his T think about spending the summer with mom?

I don't feel good about it, the therapist doesn't feel good about it. I don't want to say that I would like to see her make a mistake that will limit time with her...

Yes, I have talked to my lawyer, the evidence it would take would be a PROVEN case of child abuse...

Personally, I believe, that where she abandoned them stating that I was abusive to her, that there should be no way she should get any custody. The claim of abuse is of course false. However, if a parent knowingly leave her children in the care of someone who is abusive, wouldn't you think child endangerment?
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« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2019, 03:06:28 AM »

I think in your shoes I would get a second opinion from another lawyer.  I have a hard time believing that a court would refuse to take action unless there was documented physical abuse.

The fact that she abandoned them, that she made no attempts to come see them for so long, and that the oldest child's T thinks it is a bad idea to send them ... if they come back with severe emotional issues, then all of that should mean something.

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« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2019, 01:34:08 PM »


It is standard for a healthy, functioning parent who lives far away to get the entire summer.  That's not what is best when the parent far away is neither mentally healthy or stable. 

It's a hard thing to prove when they are so deep in denial that they have created a new version of themselves and believe their lies.
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« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2019, 02:46:08 PM »

To worriedStepmom's point, there may be proactive things that a good L could help you with. Like setting up successful conditions for your child before visitation.

"S11 has experienced suicidal ideation that we take very seriously. To support him during a transition, we ask that necessary cautions are put in place, including both a psychiatrist and a therapist approved by both parents, and who are in contact with current providers for consultation before visitation can occur. Regular, consistent visits must be agreed to and are a prerequisite for fulfilling the whole summer visitation period." You know how lawyers write, something to that effect 

The point being that a proactive L will help you set things up so when she missed a milestone reflective of a consistent, caring, responsible parent, then you can take action. Rather than the opposite, where you are dealing with a crisis you suspected was going to happen, and have no guideposts to help you navigate.
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