Here's the situation - advice needed

[DearHusband]

For those not familiar with my backstory:

Five years ago, I had a two month emotional+ affair. My wife has memorialized this and every transgression since. At one point, i moved out and then I discovered BPD and things made sense. I moved back in, determined to make things work now that I was armed with better methods of dealing with her.

But, no matter how I apply the techniques, it's not making a difference. This descriptions pretty mush sums up what I am dealing with:

Many times a person who holds a grudge has a sense that the world is split up into those who are right and those who are wrong. This is what psychoanalysts call “splitting,” that is, dividing people (feelings, beliefs and other things as well) into “good” and “bad.” British psychoanalyst Melanie Klein introduced this concept, which begins in early childhood and is usually outgrown as we get older and develop the capacity to see things in a more nuanced, complex way.

But some of us never quite move out of this tendency to view everything as only one way or another, and to protect ourselves from feeling that we are all-bad, we have to see ourselves as all-good. An unrelenting grudge puts the grudger into the category of those who are right, and the person who wronged them in the category of those who are bad.

Anger toward the person who has done wrong is then justified as appropriate and well deserved. That individual, the holder of the grudge thinks, also deserves to be punished for having done something so hurtful and insensitive.

I can never be punished enough. Now to the current situation.

A week ago, I got back from a scout snow camping trip with my S13. I put everything out in the backyard to dry. The next morning it rained. I moved everything under cover but it was wet. I was discussing it at dinner that night and my wife felt compelled to rub it in my face. I responded that I didn't appreciate being made to feel stupider than I already felt. That's when S13 pipes up to defend me and how his mom is always attacking people including him. Uh oh. Wife goes into room, throws a blanket and pillow out and locks the door. She puts on our shared calendar that I have all child care duties for the next few weeks. This is punishment for me asking to spend more time with her, but not helping enough with things that she won't tell me about because I should just know them. She's playing a game to punish me.

I was tired of the games and just plain tired so I upped the ante. I changed the entry on our shared calendar from ":)H has kids" to ":)H has kids - no changes." If she wanted to see if I could handle being a single dad, so be it. I rearranged my work schedule and got food for dinner for the week. One thing I couldn't change was that I had an interview for a job on Wednesday. I was tired and cranky and couldn't pick up the kids so I called my mom to help take D11 to violin lessons. Wife hates my mom because, years ago, I had told her about some of the things my wife was saying to me. Even though my mom has always treated my wife kindly and even pays for us to have bi-weekly cleaning service and a $20k European vacation with her and my brother's family in a few months, my wife can't stand her. She's embarrassed that she knows her non-pubic persona. Me contacting my mom was a slap in the face to her.

During the week, the only thing she said to my son, was that he was disrespectful to her. Otherwise, she just went straight to the bedroom when she got home. This weekend she thawed a bit. She allowed me to sleep in the bedroom. But, the badgering only stopped when I tried a new tact. I basically admitted that I was a horrible person. Once she had gotten me to say that and piled on an extra helping of humiliation, she was in a great mood for a while. I know, I shouldn't have done this. It's only going to make my life harder in the long run, but darn it was remarkably effective.

Except, that I was still going to have to take care of the kids, even though my hours are not flexible, whereas hers are. I still still couldn't take D11 to violin lessons. Wife stated that if I asked my mom to help she would cancel the lessons as she doesn't want my mom to be part of our lives. She'll accept the cleaning service and vacation though. That made me feel like she would hurt our daughter to punish me.

I've tried to avoid JADE. I've tried SET. I've been through extinction bursts. I've walked away. It doesn't work. She holds a grudge like it has a handle. The longer things go, the less mad I get but the more mad she gets. She cannot self-soothe for the life of her.

One more thing. She admitted that, while watching us on the security camera, everyone was much happier without her. However, I had done a poor job at getting the kids to do their chores. She said she wanted to move out and had already explored apartments. Totally a bluff. She won't do it. Just another attempt to punish me. I think she is upset partly because everyone seemed so less stressed when she was gone. We need to always tell her how much we need her. So, that brings me to tonight.

I made dinner for everyone, but didn't explicitly invite her to have dinner with us. I had assumed. So, she went into her room and closed the door. I followed and asked her to join us. She said I didn't want her there. If I had, I would have asked. I answered that I did want her there and her plate was set and the food was ready and I hoped she would join us and I walked back to have dinner with my kids. She never came out and I got a blanket and pillow on the floor for my efforts. Seems I didn't go back early enough to beg her to come out again.

Now for the advice part. I'm clearly doing something wrong. Are there extenuating circumstances because of the affair? Nons that have had your partner cheat on you, have you also had difficulty forgiving? I can't keep up the "I'm a horrible person" tact. What could I have said instead? I really want to leave, but I'm trying to do "the right thing."

Thanks for reading,
DH

[formflier]

Now for the advice part. I'm clearly doing something wrong. Are there extenuating circumstances because of the affair? Nons that have had your partner cheat on you, have you also had difficulty forgiving? I can't keep up the "I'm a horrible person" tact. What could I have said instead? I really want to leave, but I'm trying to do "the right thing."
 

Yes... .you are not consistent.  You are "intermittently reinforcing" her.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=63989.0

Tools without consistency can make things worse because it will give them a sense that they are "winning"

You were doing OK until you "admitted" you were horrible.   OK... .the drama thing with the calendar... but that wasn't too bad.

I'm going to switch gears.  Confirm again this was an "emotional affair".  Can you elaborate in a sentence or two about that.  Were you going on dates and planning a future?

Here is the thing... .does your wife think it was emotional affair... .or do you?  Or did you accept your wife's idea?


Switching gears again.

I don't think your wife is punishing you.  I think your wife is throwing tantrums because that works for her.  You feel punished because you feel punished... .but I really doubt that is her intent.  

I'll hush and wait on your response.


FF

[DearHusband]

Yes... .you are not consistent.  You are "intermittently reinforcing" her.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=63989.0

Tools without consistency can make things worse because it will give them a sense that they are "winning"

I cannot outlast her. My wife slept in another room on a mat on the floor for 8 months until her body just couldn't take it while I tried to be consistent. Although, this time was only a week, I just choose to sabotage the diet so to speak. I realize that was a mistake.

I'm going to switch gears.  Confirm again this was an "emotional affair".  Can you elaborate in a sentence or two about that.  Were you going on dates and planning a future?

Here is the thing... .does your wife think it was emotional affair... .or do you?  Or did you accept your wife's idea?

Five years ago, my wife had walked out and tried to take the kids on a vacation without me, when I inserted myself for safety reasons. During the vacation we slept in separate rooms and she told me she would never forgive me for a misunderstanding that had me on the wrong side of the mountain while skiing at the end of the day. I had already seen a lawyer at this point and after the 'vacation' was planning to leave when I was told that my division and I were being laid off. I Got no sympathy from my wife, but did from a coworker. For two months, we spent a lot of time together talking and texting and that was probably on it's way to sex. My wife found my phone before that happened.

Switching gears again.

I don't think your wife is punishing you.  I think your wife is throwing tantrums because that works for her.  You feel punished because you feel punished... .but I really doubt that is her intent. 

Possibly, but she definitely needs me to grovel. She cannot admit she has done anything wrong in just about any situation. Nor can she forgive any transgression. I had seen this before I married her. A friendship was terminated permanently when that person said the wrong thing. My S13 keeps talking about what a hypocrite mommy is.

Thanks,
DH

[ArleighBurke]

You have 3 choices:
- Accept that this is the way that things will always be and keep doing what you are doing. Perhaps there is a way you can find peace with it.
- Put in the work to develop your own skills. Learn to outlast her. Learn that everytime you "save" her it is a short term win for a long term loss. Learn to care a little less about what she does, and stop letting her affect your life so much
- Divorce her

We're all in this situation. There is no "poor me - this isn't fair". Of course it's not fair. None of us signed up for it. But for whatever reason your life is currently what it is. This is where you get to make a choice. This is where you get to be a man - a decider - a do-er. This is where you need to take control of YOU, and decide your path forward.

All options are difficult, and no option is wrong. But all options require committment.

What do you want?

[formflier]

I cannot outlast her. 

What does this mean?

Consistency means living a healthy life and making healthy choices... .even when your pwBPD wants you to be dysfunctional. 

The longer you go on "giving up" and caving in, make the next time all the harder. 

FF

[DearHusband]

What does this mean?

Consistency means living a healthy life and making healthy choices... .even when your pwBPD wants you to be dysfunctional. 

The longer you go on "giving up" and caving in, make the next time all the harder. 

FF

A few things to know about my wife.

1. When pregnant with our first, she stopped talking to her mom and her sister for ~6 months because they said something that offended her.
2. She stopped talking to my mom for ~2.5 years because she did something that made her angry.
3. It is 1000 times more important to her to be right than to be happy.
4. She doesn't calm down on her own and doesn't appear to want to socialize or have a relationship with me or anyone.

Like I said, she slept on a two inch mat on the floor for 8 months ( a year after the affair ), while I was consistent that she could sleep in the bedroom with me at any time if she ever chose too. I asked her most every night to do just that. A lot of good that did me. Yes, it eventually ended when she had such pain in her shoulders that she could not take it anymore. She can out-stubborn a mule. Seriously, how long is reasonable to be consistent without effect?

So, when I say I can't outlast her, what I'm really saying is that if she can't get her way, she would rather have no relationship at all. She won't grow to miss me, feel lonely, or feel sorry. But, I would feel all of those things and I don't want to lose that.

 

[formflier]

  I asked her most every night to do just that. A lot of good that did me. Yes, it eventually ended when she had such pain in her shoulders that she could not take it anymore. She can out-stubborn a mule. Seriously, how long is reasonable to be consistent without effect?

 she would rather have no relationship at all. She won't grow to miss me, feel lonely, or feel sorry. 
 

OK... I've got an idea of where your disconnect is. 

You "evaluate" her relationship needs or wants based on yours.  I assure you that they are completely different, even if she claims they are the same.

While she was sleeping on the floor in the other room, she had a relationship with you that worked for her.  You came to her... begged her to come back... and that fulfilled her in a dysfunctional way.

I suspect, if you had been consistent in being nonchalant and moving on with your life, that she would have "had pain in her shoulder" much sooner.  Right... ."pain in her shoulder"... .do you really buy that?

Here is the thing... .is she still sleeping in there?  So... .did you "outlast her"... .of course she won't "admit" that... .the "pain in her shoulder" prevents that.


What do the other details you gave me do to clarify the picture.  Perhaps you can "agree" with her that strong boundaries are important.

You respect hers and expect her to respect yours.

FF

[DearHusband]

I don't know about you FF, but that kind of relationship is not appealing to me. I don't want a relationship with my wife that is like with my coworkers, where we are all respecting each others' space. I want her to be in my space and me to be in hers. Double entendre intended.

All I find is that extended periods of boundary enforcement just result in increased distance.

[formflier]

All I find is that extended periods of boundary enforcement just result in increased distance.

So... perhaps it did... .perhaps the boundary enforcement was a bit off... .perhaps there was a "misdiagnosis" about what she "wanted" or how each of you were feeding the relationship dynamic.

I don't see distance (from her point of view).  She regularly got you beckoning her back to  you while at the same time she got some sanctification (likely dysfunctional) that  she was "punishing you" or something.

It's clear it wasn't meeting what you wanted... .and I agree... it's not an appealing situation.

My point was for you to consider how your methods played into what she was after... or likely after.

Once you "stop feeding what she wants"... .perhaps... perhaps she decides she wants to be closer.  What do you think of that analysis?

What are your plans going forward?

FF

[Red5]

A few things to know about my wife.

1. When pregnant with our first, she stopped talking to her mom and her sister for ~6 months because they said something that offended her.
2. She stopped talking to my mom for ~2.5 years because she did something that made her angry.
3. It is 1000 times more important to her to be right than to be happy.
4. She doesn't calm down on her own and doesn't appear to want to socialize or have a relationship with me or anyone.

DearHusband,

Oh yes… I can concur/relate to what you have shared,

My u/BPDw also “must always be right”… and she will absolutely sabotage, and destroy ANY relationship to obtain this lofty goal, whether it be family, co-workers, even her own grown children, and not to mention, even me ! …

I have of late become much more attuned to her modus operandi where this is concerned, ie’ I used to attempt rescue, to save the day, and “stop her” from committing such egregious offences upon her FOO, as well others who may be unawares of what is coming at them… but no more, I just let her run out to the end of her leash so to speak, sometimes she breaks it, sometimes she stops short.

Many has been the occasion that she has run off at her own family, ie’ FOO mum, sisters, and even her own grown up children, and quite spectacular was the event to behold… wow ; (

Each event resulted in much family dysregulations, conflagrations, and chaos mayhem, that took months or even years to “get past”… and yet still she does this… without pretense of cautionary thought one iota!

The more I read and learn about BPD, as well other pd’s… I do read a quite a lot about it being brought about due to childhood trauma of one sort or another, to channel the “Captain”; Strother Martin’s character from the old film “Cool Hand Luke”… “What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.” (replace men & he with u/BPDw).

I think… that sometimes, what;… or better “who” I am interacting with is a much earlier version of my u/BPDw… I am thinking maybe early to mid-teenage years, I very angry teenager at that, yes, I am absolutely sure of it now,

Yes, my u/BPD wife has an anger pool with a bottomless deep end !

I remember during the dating phase of our relationship, she would start a fight, and I would think it was me, after all she said it was me , And one time, I was on my way to work in the next town, and she called me up while in transit, as we always did start our mornings, as the drive was about 1.2 hours one way, we would trade pleasantries, love youz, and have a great day… but that particular morning, she wanted to continue the quarrel… and I had; had just about enough, and I said… “what the heck is wrong with you, you got some kind of “click” or something, WHY are you always so damn angry ALL the time… and your anger makes absolutely NO sense to me, why do you do this”… Yes, a  there wasn’t it !

We married about two years later on…

You see, I thought it was me all along, whom may be hard headed, or stubborn, or too self-protective… and we got married, and it was not even a month later till the “other shoe dropped”… that was eight years ago now… boy have I learned a lot !

Yeah, she has got to be right, always, and at any cost, .and I am proud to say that Red5 has now figured out how to side step much of this hoopla... .& I learn more everyday,

Hang in there DH~>

Red5

[DearHusband]

Thanks all. Just worn down at the moment. I normally get some comfort at work, but that's stressful this week too. This too shall pass.

DH