Seeing r/s improvements due to MC & boundary enforcement

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi all!  

It's been awhile since I've posted (over a month). Just wanted to update and discuss the r/s improvements I've experienced lately.

We started marriage counseling over 2 months ago, and it's definitely been helping.   As I've previously mentioned, this is our 3rd attempt at MC. Our first T was incredibly unprofessional, and while we liked our 2nd T, there were numerous scheduling difficulties. I did my homework this time around, and it's paying off.
We have a good dynamic with our MC. She's direct & goal-oriented. She holds us equally accountable for our individual behaviors. I told her early on, and in front of H, that he has been thrice diagnosed with BPD. She took this very seriously, and thanked me for telling her. H was not thrilled that I'd brought it up. When he was first diagnosed, he agreed with the dx, then began wavering, now currently states that he "used to have BPD, but doesn't anymore." I'm learning to stop using the word "Borderline" with him. He seems more comfortable simply saying he "has a problem." I'm starting to realize that the label is difficult for him, so as long as he's still doing his individual tx, I'm ok with that. Our MC does seem to recognize his BPD behaviors, and responds accordingly.

What I've changed to make things better: I've improved my active listening skills, learned to take baby steps, have become more thoughtful/cautious in my texting with H, and I'm accepting that there will always be some setbacks along the way.

What BPDH has changed to make things better: He is thinking more before he speaks, he's starting to do work not only in MC sessions but also between sessions, and he's learning to, as MC instructs, to "go from zero to 20 instead of zero to 60" in his responses to me.

Re: Boundary reinforcement: Happy to report that the boundary I have in place for his screaming is starting to work. The boundary is such that when he starts screaming at me (so loud that our neighbors can hear), I cease verbal communication with him for 12 hours. When H screams, it's generally at night, so we are both asleep for much of those 12 hours. So when morning rolls around, that gives us each a few remaining hours to "chill" and contemplate the situation and our respective responses to one another. This is leading to much calmer discussions the day following an argument. Initially after setting this boundary, I faltered more than a few times and was not entirely consistent. I've noticed now though that the more consistent I am, the better it works. We had an argument last night, and when he began screaming, I reminded him of the "12 hour rule." I held fast this time. Shortly after the 12 hours were up this morning, I received a heartfelt and unusually thoughtful & sincere apology from him which lead to a fruitful discussion. This feels like progress.

We've been in a committed relationship for a little over 6 years, and this Wednesday is our 4th wedding anniversary. I was anxious and saddened at our last 2 anniversaries. This year, I'm looking forward to celebrating our love & progress.  

[bananas2]

Hi all!  

It's been awhile since I've posted (over a month). Just wanted to update and discuss the r/s improvements I've experienced lately.

We started marriage counseling over 2 months ago, and it's definitely been helping.   As I've previously mentioned, this is our 3rd attempt at MC. Our first T was incredibly unprofessional, and while we liked our 2nd T, there were numerous scheduling difficulties. I did my homework this time around, and it's paying off.
We have a good dynamic with our MC. She's direct & goal-oriented. She holds us equally accountable for our individual behaviors. I told her early on, and in front of H, that he has been thrice diagnosed with BPD. She took this very seriously, and thanked me for telling her. H was not thrilled that I'd brought it up. When he was first diagnosed, he agreed with the dx, then began wavering, now currently states that he "used to have BPD, but doesn't anymore." I'm learning to stop using the word "Borderline" with him. He seems more comfortable simply saying he "has a problem." I'm starting to realize that the label is difficult for him, so as long as he's still doing his individual tx, I'm ok with that. Our MC does seem to recognize his BPD behaviors, and responds accordingly.

What I've changed to make things better: I've improved my active listening skills, learned to take baby steps, have become more thoughtful/cautious in my texting with H, and I'm accepting that there will always be some setbacks along the way.

What BPDH has changed to make things better: He is thinking more before he speaks, he's starting to do work not only in MC sessions but also between sessions, and he's learning to, as MC instructs, to "go from zero to 20 instead of zero to 60" in his responses to me.

Re: Boundary reinforcement: Happy to report that the boundary I have in place for his screaming is starting to work. The boundary is such that when he starts screaming at me (so loud that our neighbors can hear), I cease verbal communication with him for 12 hours. When H screams, it's generally at night, so we are both asleep for much of those 12 hours. So when morning rolls around, that gives us each a few remaining hours to "chill" and contemplate the situation and our respective responses to one another. This is leading to much calmer discussions the day following an argument. Initially after setting this boundary, I faltered more than a few times and was not entirely consistent. I've noticed now though that the more consistent I am, the better it works. We had an argument last night, and when he began screaming, I reminded him of the "12 hour rule." I held fast this time. Shortly after the 12 hours were up this morning, I received a heartfelt and unusually thoughtful & sincere apology from him which lead to a fruitful discussion. This feels like progress.

We've been in a committed relationship for a little over 6 years, and this Wednesday is our 4th wedding anniversary. I was anxious and saddened at our last 2 anniversaries. This year, I'm looking forward to celebrating our love & progress.  

[Enabler]

I'm really really pleased for you. There's a lot of sadness and anger on the boards and it's so Nice to hear from someone who's having some success.

I love the 12 NC, it's perfect and clearly working a treat for you. My wife favours the silent treatment so NC wouldn't actually bother her!

[anchor]

Thanks for sharing your progress! The main problem with my undiagnosed BPDw (she refuses any therapy) is also the screaming/insults (which is particularly problematic in front of kids 1,5 and 4 years). So far I have just tried the validating strategy, but am tempted by your boundary enforcement (as my wife insults and screams more often - there is almost never a night without it in some form - though the rage doesn't reach former heights and quickly recedes). It sounds like you enforce a boundary based on voice levels (the neighbors hearing) - or did I misunderstand? Don't you apply it whenever he screams/insults you?

[pearlsw]

Hi bananas2! 

Thanks for sharing your nice news! Happy Anniversary! Hope you get to fully enjoy it!

Are there additional issues you working on? Other tips you can share?

[Tattered Heart]

Congratulations on the improvements! Do you feel more empowered now that you've started active listening? Do you think your H feels like he is being heard more?

What does your T think of your 12 hour rule?

[bananas2]

Thank you all for the congrats.

I love the 12 NC, it's perfect and clearly working a treat for you. My wife favours the silent treatment so NC wouldn't actually bother her!

To clarify, it's technically not "NC," since we still agree on texting during the 12 hrs if necessary re: household issues, etc. Also, you are correct that this would not work for a SO that favors the silent treatment. It's important to tailor boundaries to each r/s.

It sounds like you enforce a boundary based on voice levels (the neighbors hearing) - or did I misunderstand? Don't you apply it whenever he screams/insults you?

Due partially to a previous threat of eviction bc of noise complaints, I've applied this boundary based on voice level. I figure that we are all human and raise our voices on occasion, so I didn't want to go overboard by not speaking to one another for 12 hours simply due to a brief raising of one's voice.

Are there additional issues you working on? Other tips you can share?

Oh there are so many, many issues we are working on. No tips to share at this point, but I will certainly update with any tips as they come.

Do you feel more empowered now that you've started active listening? Do you think your H feels like he is being heard more?
What does your T think of your 12 hour rule?

Honestly, I can't say that I feel more empowered by my active listening, but I think my H does feel he is being heard more, which is good for both of us. Both my T and our MC are in favor of the 12 hour rule.

[pearlsw]

Hi again bananas2,

In terms of the label I have found calling it emotional dysregulation or emotional sensitivity helps. I try to emphasize that we have all emotions, and that emotions are natural and human, but that his can come out in extreme forms and when that leads to problems... .well, we have problems! He already described himself as being emotionally sensitive so that was an easier "sell" than it might have been otherwise.

On the question of whether MC is possible when one of the partner's has BPD what would you say about that? Does this present certain issues that you have manage? Is it a problem or not in your case?

[bananas2]

Pearl - I like your idea of calling it emotional sensitivity. It's a way to call it "something" in H's presence without hanging that ominous "Borderline" label on it.

On the question of whether MC is possible when one of the partner's has BPD what would you say about that? Does this present certain issues that you have manage? Is it a problem or not in your case?

I can only speak from my own experience thus far, but in my r/s, yes, I do find MC "possible." The BPD does present certain obstacles. For example, we had another MC session last night and the topic of BPDH's past infidelity came up. The T asked him to empathize with my feelings of hurt and anger. As soon as she said that, my unspoken thought was, "His BPD doesn't allow him the capability of that level of empathy." I know our T understands BPD, but I don't think she realizes just how lacking in empathy a pwBPD can be. I feel she was challenging him with a task that he is simply not able to complete bc of his disorder. Now if this was MC with two nons, I think this would be a fairly simple task.
I didn't address this with the T, bc no matter how I were to say it, I'm sure that H would take it as a criticism/insult if I said he was lacking in empathy. I would like to have an individual session with her to discuss how to work around some of his BPD issues while in joint sessions, but that would mean H would get an individual session with her too (only fair), and I'm not in a place yet where I feel I can trust him to not attempt to manipulate her, since he has so easily manipulated previous T's.

[Enabler]

How has he manipulated T's in the past?

Not to tee you up but I found that (and understandably so) my wife's real emotions relating to abuse and control in the relationship were extremely real... .and of course they were real to her as that is how she has contorted the facts to be... .because that is her feeling. It was hard for the counsellor to ignore those very genuine emotions and compartmentalise the fact that those emotions might not be proportional to the facts. MC seems to me to be a battle of who can get the counsellor onside with the deepest felt hurt.

I don't know how you get around that.

Without a specialist trained BPD experienced counsellor I'm not sure a general BPD would have a clue what the experience of a non is. My W has individual counselling every Tuesday... .every Tuesday I come home from work filled with the hope that my W will come bounding in with an apology... .and every week I'm disappointed!

[bananas2]

How has he manipulated T's in the past?

H has manipulated in various ways, but the general pattern I've seen is that he lies by omission, or as I call it, "starts in the middle." Example: He has begun sessions by saying to T, "She's constantly suspicious of me & doesn't trust me. I'm not doing anything untrustworthy, so when I tell her that I'm hurt and upset that she won't trust me, she gets mad." I refer to this as "starting in the middle," bc he neglected the first part: that he has admitted to being unfaithful to me on multiple occasions. I consider this to be manipulative of the T, whereas H is making an attempt to gain sympathy of the T without divulging the whole truth.

Without a specialist trained BPD experienced counsellor I'm not sure a general BPD would have a clue what the experience of a non is.

Probably very true, and good observation. Although even the most highly-trained BPD/DBT counselor could never fully understand the experience of being the SO of a pwBPD. I spent a decade working in the mental health field, and had several patients with BPD whom I felt I fully understood, but I had no earthly idea until I married a pwBPD, what it's like to be in a committed r/s with a pwBPD.

every Tuesday I come home from work filled with the hope that my W will come bounding in with an apology... .and every week I'm disappointed!

Oh, Enabler. I'm so sorry you endure this each and every week. It's so disheartening to have your hopes dashed, but on the other hand, I admire your faith that one of those Tuesdays it might just happen. I've learned on this forum to be realistic in my expectations, and have been reminded that doesn't mean giving up hope, but rather continuing to hope for the best while remaining prepared for reality.