Silent Treatment again - ugh

[nuthereggsheller]

After 4 months of relative peace, it looks like another cycle has begun. This is exhausting. Yesterday I came home from work and, happy to be home and happy to see him, gave a cheery hello but apparently didn't say it precisely the way he wanted, so he accused me of basically cheating on him and got deeply offended and stormed out of the house. I was completely blindsided and dumbstruck by this out of the blue, random, way off base assumption.  Oh, btw, HE was the one who cheated a year ago.

And he's been giving me the silent treatment since then.

Why am I doing this?  Remind me please?  !

[DaddyBear77]

Why am I doing this?  Remind me please?  !

Haha - great question, nuthereggsheller - but you don't get off that easy - I'm turning the question back around - why ARE you doing this?

But in all seriousness, I am really sorry that another cycle has begun for you. When he storms out of the house, how long is it until he comes back? Is he back now?

You said he cheated a year ago... .how did you deal with that as a couple? Were you able to come to terms? Is it still an ongoing issue?

How long do these cycles usually last? Is 4 months a typical "quiet" period or was this one longer or shorter than usual?

Please share more when you get a chance, would love to hear more about what's happening.

[nuthereggsheller]

Hey, thanks for taking the time to reply DaddyBear77.

Okay, so it really was more of a rhetorical "why am I doing this," Lol, and trying to keep my own perspective light... .but the sincere answer boils down to my personal sense of commitment I guess, but even that has been shot to pieces since his affair.

How long it takes for him to come back varies.  Could be a half hour, could be a full day.  I caught him last year before he had a chance to turn it into an overnighter.  And yes, he's back right now. This last time was only a quick out and back.

As far as I know the affair is not ongoing, though their "hidden friendship" (which I was told was ended but wasn't) was long ongoing and only apparently ended (I think) when I caught them.

This 4 month cycle was longer than usual. Last year it was about every 2-4 weeks.

(Please share more when you get a chance, would love to hear more about what's happening.)
Thanks for your concern. I decided not to play the game this time of me trying to make an open door for us to talk, and being nicey-nice. This time, I started that same pattern by making him dinner and breakfast (which he ate alone), then I decided that if he is going to treat me like I'm invisible, I'll be invisible. So this morning I left for work without making his usual breakfast or saying good-bye.  After stonewalling me since Monday, he just texted me and said he loves me (no actual apology, however), and I haven't replied yet. I feel a need to set clear boundaries of what is acceptable behavior toward me, but I'm not even sure he's capable of it when he's angry. So wondering if I'll just end up throwing fuel on the flames.  So now I'm just waiting to figure out how to reply... .oh yeah, while I'm trying to focus on my job.

[Lucky Jim]

Okay, so it really was more of a rhetorical "why am I doing this," Lol, and trying to keep my own perspective light... .but the sincere answer boils down to my personal sense of commitment I guess, but even that has been shot to pieces since his affair.

Hey nuthereggsheller, I would be interested to hear more about your "personal sense of commitment," because I struggled with this issue during marriage to my BPDxW.  I value loyalty, yet at what point is one's loyalty misplaced in a BPD r/s?  Can you foresee a tipping point for yourself?  These are tough questions, I know, and the answers, of course, are different for everyone.

LuckyJim

[nuthereggsheller]

LuckyJim, those are tough questions indeed.  Tipping point... .it goes kind of like a see-saw right now.  Past the tipping point and then there's what I perceive as an honest effort at regaining balance.  My sense of commitment will be overrun by enough pain at some point I imagine, when I will say to myself "enough is enough for good." I just don't know when or what that looks like in this situation. I'd value hearing about your experience and your thoughts and feelings.

[Navysndfirey]

I feel your pain. My uBPDex blacklisted me back in July but she kept in contact with me but had me at arms length it was only January that she lost her ___ at me and deleted menof everything to come back 1 week later saying she has unblocked me cuss I may need something in the future and she’s not a butch. Go figure, now the latest NC has has been 3 weeks. I was accuse of cheating on her that’s why she cut me .

[Red5]

Tipping point... .it goes kind of like a see-saw right now.  Past the tipping point and then there's what I perceive as an honest effort at regaining balance.  My sense of commitment will be overrun by enough pain at some point I imagine, when I will say to myself "enough is enough for good." I just don't know when or what that looks like in this situation. I'd value hearing about your experience and your thoughts and feelings.

Good Morning nuthereggsheller,

I can certainly relate to your post here about the silent treatment (ST).

Like you write about the “cycle”… I too many times say that this relationship dynamic, living with a pw/BPD is indeed exhausting.

Seems that us non’s never see it coming, well in my case, since I have come upon this extraordinary explanation of BPD to explain what has been happening for the last eleven years that I have been in this relationship/marriage to my u/BPD wife… I have come to learn more and more, and that said, to some degree I just may be able to “see it coming”.

There are signs in behaviors to look for, triggers to avoid, etc’… we may not “avoid”, or dodge the next cycle as it comes along, but at least we now can anticipate what is most likely going to happen next.

The key for me has been NOT to engage in JADE, or else a long drawn out circular argument that only leads to even more dysregulations, and many times; to days, weeks, even sometimes months of ST, 

There was a thread a while back about “the last straw” or something along those lines…

I think (?) I have crossed this point in my relationship, and for me what does that even mean?

Well, the “fun times” are now gone from our marriage, and not likely to ever return, I know now that my u/BPDw is what she is, she will not change, and if I allow her to cross over my boundaries, that I have set up, in order to maintain my own sanity in the marriage, then “woe be tide to me”…

I have/had lost myself in all of this, and then I hit the bottom, I gave up, but then I reached a point of “apathy”… in which I have now “settled”… and now I am in the role of caretaker only, all that was innocent, sweet and joyful is long gone now, due to being trampled upon continuously to the point of repugnancy.

“FOG” keeps me here, my moral belief system.

Yeah ST at this point for me is kind of a good thing, a chance for some respite from her never ending BPD behaviors, and the list of those is pretty long.

Best of luck, Red5

[Lucky Jim]

it goes kind of like a see-saw right now.  Past the tipping point and then there's what I perceive as an honest effort at regaining balance.  My sense of commitment will be overrun by enough pain at some point I imagine, when I will say to myself "enough is enough for good." I just don't know when or what that looks like in this situation. I'd value hearing about your experience and your thoughts and feelings.

Hello again, nutheregg, I like that image of a see-saw for a BPD r/s, due to its cyclic nature.  Right, one goes beyond the tipping point and back again, which can be confusing.  I still find loyalty an admirable quality in other contexts, yet for me I went too far with the concept in my marriage, because I was blindly clinging to an ideal of marriage while in reality I was destroying myself in the process.  I suspect you'll know it when you get there.  In the meantime, I strongly suggest that you take steps to take care of yourself and your needs.

LJ

[formflier]

ST and "blacklisted" still happens from time to time in my r/s... .but it's rare.

Best description I can give is my wife and I have a good relationship... .until we don't... .

When we have a good relationship I enjoy it... .and when my wife and I don't have a good relationship, I "shift" that energy into my other relationships that are working for me.  Essentially ignoring the tantrum.

It wasn't easy to make that mental shift on my part, but it seems to be effective.  I am still sad about it from time to time, because I can't "count on" my wife or my marriage for sustenance.

Think something like that could work for you?

FF

[nuthereggsheller]

Formlier, that sounds pretty much like how I'm currently surviving.  I really don't see this relationsihp for the long haul, as I had a beautiful 1st marriage for years and years and I know what that looks and feels like.  And this just isn't it.  But, like you said, it's okay... .until it isn't.  Exactly. Each episode works like a pick-axe at my heart though, and chunks of it are being hacked out. The result now looks more like apathy. I'm older, so I'm not looking to build a big beautiful future with someone.  I think I had that in my first marriage.  It would just be nice to have comfortable companionship with a dear man who treats me well and whom I can lovingly be with.  I don't need to be the brunt of someone else's dysfunction.  But I also realize no one is perfect and we're all somewhat dysfunctional, and I'm just not sure where, when the see-saw will tip to the point of "no more."  A friend told me the other day "you know, since you married, you've spent far more time being unhappy than happy... .doesn't that tell you something?"  Food for thought, indeed.

[nuthereggsheller]

So I'd like to shift this conversation a bit and ask for all of your input.  Everyone who has responded here sounds reasonable and balanced, like you're trying to be "good people."  I think you all are also male, so I hesitate to discuss this, but then again maybe you all are exactly who I need to get feedback from.

Sex.  Like I said, I'm older, and this is a second marriage for me.  When my BPD hubby and I dated and then married, sex was such a sweet, beautiful part of our relationship. I was so glad to be with him - he was truly just... .the kindest, sweetest, most caring and wonderful lovemaking partner, because I felt that's who he was as a person.  The real deal.

He started revealing BPD symptoms about 3 months after we married, and even then, when (like Formflier said) our relationship was good, it was good... .until it wasn't. But then we'd overcome (by me apologizing for the whatever I could find in the imagined affront that I could think of to be truly responsible for, like maybe an unintended word or inflection) and we'd be good again... .until the next episode.  As I said earlier, with each episode though, which is always an emotional attack on me usually with inflated false accusations of imagined wrongdoing, chunks of my heart have been chipped away.

So the result is that I'm just not interested at all in making love with this person. My heart isn't in it, because so much of it has been damaged. And I don't even feel like having just sex. I guess there is a "Venus/Mars" component here too, because I imagine some of your responses might be "well, can you just detach and enjoy having sex for the sake of having sex?"  I wish I could, but that's really hard for me.    It's an emotional connection for me and when I don't feel connected - or at least not DISconnected - it feels fake, and that I'm damaging my true emotions in an attempt to keep the peace and keep him from feeling disconnected and going into another episode.

Any suggestions?

[formflier]

I've got a couple ideas for gals that would be good for you to chat with on the boards.  From what I know of their stories... .it sounds almost exactly like yours.


I would suggest the focus not be the sex... but protecting yourself from the emotional (attacks maybe... .or however you would say it).  Once that is consistent, I think your feelings will likely come around on sex.

Let's present this another way.  I would much rather you "have sex when you don't want to " (for the sake of having sex) than have a relationship with emotional (abuse, attacks... whatever you want to call it) for the sake of continuing a relationship.

I think the sex is a symptom... .so treat the "issue" not the symptom. 

You can treat this without your hubby's permission.  Consistently stop having a relationship with him when he "starts" to be disrespectful. 

As a practical matter, I would encourage you to be sexually open as part of reconciliation... .but that assumes there is some effort on his part (even if not a good effort).

In my r/s the only times I reject sex is when the disrespect is "right then"... .if she is over it and moving forward... I try to get over it too.

I'll hush for now.  Thoughts?  My biggest point is "treat the issue... not the symptom".

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Well, I too am older (and somewhat wiser, at least regarding personality disorders, due to having been married to two husbands with BPD and of course, a mother who also had BPD on steroids.)

My first husband was classically BPD (unfaithful, financially irresponsible, verbally and physically abusive) while my current husband is BPD-lite (responsible, faithful, but prone to depression).

As you've experienced, it's hard to feel sexually attracted to someone who is violating our boundaries, accusing us of wrongdoing, and in general, being an a-hole. With my first husband, I used to force myself to have sex with him, even though I didn't feel like it. I don't think it helped the relationship any, since it was pretty obvious I felt contempt for him more than I felt attraction.

With my present husband, the sex at the beginning was off the charts. Then, over time, it started to gradually wither away. When he had BPD outbursts and acted like a lunatic, at first I thought it was due to drinking. But then over time, the repetitive behavior, as well as the alcohol abuse, started really undermining my feelings of attraction for him.

One evening, I was hoping to repair our relationship by making love with him and he rebuffed me, saying that he didn't "trust" me. I was so turned off by that statement, since both of us had been betrayed by our partners in our previous marriages, that it broke something within me. Thinking about it later, I realized that he didn't mean that he thought I'd been unfaithful, rather that he felt too vulnerable with me. I tend to be very straightforward with saying exactly how I feel and think, so I think that made him feel like I was ultra-critical of him, and perhaps I was regarding his alcohol abuse.

So, from that moment on, our relationship changed and neither of us felt very open to being sexual with each other. He's got issues with his back and his hip, so I'm not sure he's even interested in intimacy at this point.

And for me, it's a nice memory, but I fell in love with a fantasy and the guy I'm actually with is nice in many ways, but I can't say that I'm sexually attracted to him anymore. There's too much BPD water under that bridge.

[nuthereggsheller]

Wow, you all are awesome.  Thank you so much.  Hey, Formflier, no need to "hush."    I asked for help, and your response is extremely helpful, and makes a lot of sense, and I'll definitely give it a shot. I like what you said about "issue vs symptom" and when she's over it and moved on, you try to be over it as well. That takes emotional maturity and humility.

You also said to stop having a relationship with him when he starts to be disrespectful, and that "The key for me has been NOT to engage in JADE, or else a long drawn out circular argument that only leads to even more dysregulations, and many times; to days, weeks, even sometimes months of ST... ."

So, I need a little more practical application advice.  I think I can see it coming now.  Stress - any kind: job, finances, family member's health - is huge in creating his emotional environment that leads to a trigger setting him off: in this case my innocent words that were intended to be loving and happy.  So, I see that I need to be prepared to recognize when he's been triggered, tell myself that JADE will not help, and that the trigger is likely not even the real issue - it's more likely his present emotional state of stress, and to walk away until he's better.  But I want to do that in such a way that he doesn't feel I'm giving HIM the silent treatment.  He's great at projecting (as BPD's can be, as you know).

So, I was thinking of listening to him rant first (usually it's brief), then calmly saying "I can see you are upset right now. I'd be really happy to talk about this when you're not upset." (Is that good verbage?) And then where do I go and what do I do so he doesn't feel shut out?  To my home office with the door open?  To the garage to putter around (I've sometimes said "now I know why men escape to the garage!" Lol... .)

Anyway, could you (all of you reading this, actually) give me some ideas of ways I can lovingly remove myself, what to say and where to go that keeps the door open but also sets reasonable boundaries?

I realize this may now go in another thread, but I'm still conflicted, just tolerating, and have been many times at the cusp of just. leaving.

Thanks, everyone.

[Cat Familiar]

Stress - any kind: job, finances, family member's health - is huge in creating his emotional environment that leads to a trigger setting him off: in this case my innocent words that were intended to be loving and happy.  So, I see that I need to be prepared to recognize when he's been triggered, tell myself that JADE will not help, and that the trigger is likely not even the real issue - it's more likely his present emotional state of stress, and to walk away until he's better.  But I want to do that in such a way that he doesn't feel I'm giving HIM the silent treatment.  He's great at projecting (as BPD's can be, as you know).

Yes, I totally understand what you're saying about any stress being a trigger. And life is full of stress. In my husband's case, if there is no immediate stress happening in his life, he sometimes looks for things to be stressed out about: politics, environmental degradation. I do understand the importance of citizen participation in these issues, but he doesn't do a damned thing about anything. I give money, write letters--it's not much, but I feel like I'm making a tiny contribution. He kvetches and feels bad. I've suggested that he find some way to do something meaningful, but he took that as a criticism and it made him even more stressed and unhappy--a definite sign that my advice was JADEing.

So, I was thinking of listening to him rant first (usually it's brief), then calmly saying "I can see you are upset right now. I'd be really happy to talk about this when you're not upset." (Is that good verbage?) And then where do I go and what do I do so he doesn't feel shut out?  To my home office with the door open?  To the garage to putter around (I've sometimes said "now I know why men escape to the garage!" Lol... .)

My husband is all too aware of being upset, so he doesn't like when I point that out. I try to say something neutral like "I can see this isn't a good time to talk about this, so let's talk later." Sometimes even that's too much. Often I make up an excuse such as having to put some clothes in the dryer, medicating an animal, returning an email, etc.

I've got lots of household tasks in addition to ranch duties, animal care, and gardening, so it's very easy for me to come up with an excuse. It seems that pwBPD like to have a time frame for how long you are going to be away/occupied. I've found this very bizarre at times, such as when my husband asked how long it would take for me to fix the horse fence. (As long as it takes, damnit--and you certainly wouldn't think of lending me a hand, would you? --this was the reply that went through my head, but fortunately I said something like "probably three hours or more"

[nuthereggsheller]

Cat, "I can see this isn't a good time to talk... ." That's more neutral - much better than what I said!  Thanks!  I'm going to be silently repeating a new mantra "I can see this isn't a good time to talk... .I can see this isn't... ." 

I'm not a fan of just dismissing him with my having something else to do. He is very sensitive to feeling "dismissed." That has been a trigger for other dysregulations in the past.  I'm glad that works for you. It would get me in trouble.

Any other ideas anyone?

[Cat Familiar]

I'm not a fan of just dismissing him with my having something else to do. He is very sensitive to feeling "dismissed." That has been a trigger for other dysregulations in the past.  I'm glad that works for you. It would get me in trouble.

Any other ideas anyone?

I think we’ve gotten to the place where he doesn’t have abandonment issues when I leave to do something else due to previously having invited him to help me with whatever I needed to do. He’s got such a strong streak of selfishness about how he spends his time and a real delineation about what is work and what is play.

So in the past, when I asked him, “Hey, we could continue this discussion while I feed the horses. Want to walk with me and do that?”  He always said no. If anything appears to be “work”, he’s eager not to be included. For me, I don’t make that distinction. Lots of work tasks are fun, but for him, a city boy, he is unwilling to get his hands dirty.

I’m sure there’s things you need to do where you could include him. When I had my food business, I used to have fabulous discussions with my employees about life and all sorts of personal issues while we worked in the kitchen together. If he chooses not to participate in your tasks, well it’s his choice and you’ve set up a win/win for yourself: you either get his help or you get alone time that he’s chosen to give you.

[formflier]

So... .I would make a difference between disrespect and dysregulation.

Disrespect is aimed "at you"... .while they can be dysregulated, yet aiming somewhere else.

Let the dysregulate all day long.  Validate if possible... .be close to them, yet the moment the "point at you" or "blame"... .or do circular arguments (I get upset with myself if I stay longer than three circles... .there is usually a warning at 2)

For instance... .my wife just ranted in the other room about "someone working hard to be lazy" because a toilet paper wrapper was left on the floor, vice put in the garbage.  

It wasn't directed at anyone... .so... .I didn't acknowledge that it happened.

The key seems to be looking at what they are doing from a bit of a detached point of view and try to figure out "what they are trying to satisfy."  "what works for them"  If it is dysfuncetional... .make sure you don't contribute "to it working".

If functional... .go there all day long.  Which is why I think it important that you acknowledge attempts at reconciliation with relationship (to include sex) and equally important to not give in to threats and such... or dysfunctional attempts for sex and relationship.

Thoughts?

FF

[nuthereggsheller]

Formflier, the distinction between dysregulation and disrespect makes sense - thanks.  Gotcha on working with his attempts at being functional. I can work on that. Makes sense. And so does your thought about my eventually coming around to feeling okay about sex. Could happen... .if I could figure out how to not get blindsided and knocked down emotionally at every episode.  Working on that.  SO... .When he is IS being disrespectful and it's time to remove myself, what do you see as the most effective way to do that without being dismissive, or appearing to give him the ST?

Cat, can see how your approach would work with your guy. He seems like he might be a bit calmer?  My guy has severe abandonment issues. If I rerouted the dynamic to "how about if you come with me so we can talk while I do 'X'?" he would pop a cork as my being disrespectful and telling him what to do, and probably tuck a dig in there about me always being "so busy."  I may save that idea for later, if we're still together, and if he ratchets his reactions down a bit over time. Kitchen conversations were always a favorite of mine with my kids though.  Then, after the dishes were done, we'd make tea and just on the counters and solve life's problems together.

[formflier]

Worry less about what he thinks of you walking away and worry more about YOU being protected.

Again... .super critical you get the distinction.  I'm 100% behind you... all day long... for protecting your ears from emotional abuse... .and disrespect.  100%.  That's where your energy goes.

If he thinks you are doing it because you are sneaking off to eat caramel creams... .read a romance novel... .or play with your purple elephant... .that's his business.

Yes... .we will give you strategies that may help him "think properly"... .but... .let him worry about his thinking... .you worry about your ears.


"I can't have conversation with disrespect between us... "

Think about this for a bit... .

You own it.

You indicate the issue but don't "blame" or "toss it at him"... .

You talk about "us" a couple... togetherness.

If he wants to own disrespect... .great.

If not... his choice... .

Let him connect the dots... you don't connect them for him.

FF

[Red5]

nuthereggsheller,

I used to be, and well I guess I am still… very bad about the “rescue” bit.

To use formfliers scenario about the toilet paper roll on the deck, my u/BPDw would yell from the bathroom,  &#%$  toilet paper roll!

I would immediately DROP whatever I am engaged in, and run double time MARCH to the bathroom, to pick up that toilet paper roll up off the deck, thus ending (?) the issue forthwith ()... .and then for the overkill, .I'd even MT out the little rubbish can in there, maybe even clean the toilet bowl, and then sweep and swab the deck, clean the shower, and start sorting the laundry baskets… ANYTHING to appease u/BPDw’s little outburst about a stray toilet paper roll just lying there on the deck… Crazy!

And did this stop the dysregulation, well no it did not, even as I am swinging the brooms and swabs, and toilet bowl brushes to and fro, I am being talked to (yelled at) like I am a recruit again down on Parris Island…

Did I drop that toilet paper roll on the floor, .did it matter at all if it was me or not (?), did it matter at all that I came in like the Marines landing on a beach head and thus “rescued” her from that dastardly deed of a misplaced toilet paper roll, no way !

You see ladies sand gentlemen it was NEVER about the toilet paper roll lying beside that now spick and span gleaming white porcelain bowl, .no it was not, this entire evolution of cross words was about something entirely different… oh yes, .and this was just a little trigger, and little push as it were for u/BPDw to go off into the BPD twight light zone yet again…

It took me years to understand this, and I too am on the backside of fifty, and also this is my second marriage as well… so you’d think I was a little smarter by now, .alas and no I wasn’t, .and I am still working on it  !

So how do you handle the “disrespect”, the ST, the dysregulative behaviors... .lots of great advice here, and as well handling/coping procedures to get one through and beyond that event.

What does Red5 do now… well I do not JADE, at least I give it my best shot not too, I try a little SET here and there, and some well placed validation, I do try to listen to my u/BPDw, and try to get her (safely) "ashore" and out of her perceived anger tide pool she is standing in... .ie’ “I can see dear why this is such an issue, I will try to do better, let me take care of it right now for you”… or… “I apologize for not ensuring that this (toilet paper roll) was not properly disposed of, and I am also sorry that the rubbish can is always full, I will take care of it right now”… its like I am in a relationship with a child sometimes... .I do use a little sarcasm to try and make her understand just how silly, and insignificant this whole t-paper role thing really is, and then try to get her to come clean, and to tell me why she has her rudder bent over hard to starboard... .there is ALWAYS a reason, and as time passes, I am getting much better at cutting through her dysregulative acting out, and getting at the "core" of the issue that she is unable to process... .right now, its issues with her FOO, . 

Yeah... .I do try  

And if, .as formflier, and Cat and the others here say, that the disrespect continues, then I detach, and leave, post haste' and I say something like… “this is getting a bit steamed in here, I do not want to fight or quarrel anymore over this issue, so I am going out to the shop, and I am going to change the blades on the lawn tractor/mower, and also I am going to tighten the chain on the chain saw, and after that, maybe we can discuss what’s for dinner tonight, how about some Chinese, ok, .good to go!/?  ... .I love you!”… & Red5 leaves the area chop chop hubba hubba!

Sometime this works, sometimes it does not, the key is to not to get drawn into the drama of another endless, continuous and no doubt destructive argument (circular)… there are plenty of things to do around the house, so I make myself scarce, but extremely busy !

Its the ole' recue swimmer, drowning victim thing again, ."I'll help you babe but if you grab me by the face mask again, you are going to be on you're own again here in the deep end for a while, and I am going to go down and sit on the bottom of the pool for a while till you calm down ok"... .

Yes, I do not tolerate any cross words very much anymore, and I try my best not feed into it either, I try my best to disengage, and to step away honorably, and leave smartly… and then maybe come back later when the coast is clear (?)…

As far as sex   (Red5), I am where many of the others here are at right now, too many hits, scars, too many issues, boundaries crossed etc', .and I am sad to say that my attraction for her is slowly dying due to too many of this, and that, and the other myriad of BPD induced "reasons"… not really even interested anymore to be honest, this may sound really bad, but its like another chore for me now, something else to keep her appeased, and off my case, .yeah;... .that sounded pretty bad didn't it   sorry, .another ongoing revitalization & repair "project” in my own relationship with u/BPDw (No.2)… hmmm.

Thoughts,

Red5

[nuthereggsheller]

Wow! Very helpful responses!  Okay, entertaining too - laughing out loud kind of entertaining (Red5).  I think I need to read and reread and digest all this great info. I have several things to work on from what all of you have contributed.

Will work more on protecting my ears, FF, and less worry less about what he's thinking.

Cat, Lucky Jim, Red5, FF, and all... .thanks!

[Cat Familiar]

Cat, can see how your approach would work with your guy. He seems like he might be a bit calmer?  My guy has severe abandonment issues. If I rerouted the dynamic to "how about if you come with me so we can talk while I do 'X'?" he would pop a cork as my being disrespectful and telling him what to do, and probably tuck a dig in there about me always being "so busy."  I may save that idea for later, if we're still together, and if he ratchets his reactions down a bit over time. Kitchen conversations were always a favorite of mine with my kids though.  Then, after the dishes were done, we'd make tea and just on the counters and solve life's problems together.

Well, believe you me, this evolution didn't happen overnight. My guy too was hypersensitive to being dissed, abandoned, me being busy. I had to "train" both him and me and it took a while. I'm much better at training animals than humans. They pay more attention and learn better.

So what worked for me was to get to the point where I was OK with him having his little sh!tfit. Whatever... .He can do or think or gripe about whatever he likes. I don't have to listen to it. He no longer gets disrespectful since as formflier says, "I take my ears elsewhere."

The biggest training challenge was ME. I had to get past being a rescuer, being "concerned" about his feelings, worrying that he was "mad at me", wondering when he'd come back to "normal". Once I let go of all that, I felt a tremendous freedom. He could be cranky and that meant that I was free to hang out by myself and do something I enjoyed, or at least take care of some task that needed to be done.

He's learned that he gets more of my attention and focus when he's pleasant to be around. In the past, I spent years reinforcing behavior I didn't want by paying too much attention to it. Now I just note, "Ick, this again" and make myself scarce. When he returns to nice, I act as though nothing happened and I'm friendly and engaging.

[formflier]

Now I just note, "Ick, this again" and make myself scarce. When he returns to nice, I act as though nothing happened and I'm friendly and engaging.

I did this just this morning.  In hindsight I lingered too long listening and searching and asking the question "Is there something new here... ."... .there wasn't.

The subject really doesn't matter.  "That never happened... "  "I never said that... ." (and other BPDisms that you guys can likely fill in) came up when I was asked for my feelings on a matter.

Near as I can figure... my total time listening to and "participating in" blather was about 5 minutes.

Within 45 minutes I was getting an apology via text that seemed (for her) sincere...

Sure... .I could go round and round and try to convince her that she should apologize in person... .or say it a different way... .but I know that is unproductive ground.

I sent the following texts... .

I hope we can come together later and discuss this in person.  What time do you expect to be home on Tues, Wed, Thursday of this week?
 
I'd like to plan some time, when hopefully we are at our best, to try and understand each other better

Perhaps she wants to discuss it more later... perhaps not... .I've opened the door a bit... .she will use it... .or she won't.

FF

[Red5]

The biggest training challenge was ME. I had to get past being a rescuer, being "concerned" about his feelings, worrying that he was "mad at me", wondering when he'd come back to "normal". Once I let go of all that, I felt a tremendous freedom. He could be cranky and that meant that I was free to hang out by myself and do something I enjoyed, or at least take care of some task that needed to be done.
 

I did the above for years and years in my marriage as well... .you see, I perceive myself as a "fixer", a troubleshooter, and person who can bring people together, to form an effective team, that can accomplish things, I am very good (was) at dialing down stress in others, and quelling disputes in order to bring the team together; I have always been very good at bringing peace to chaos... .I learned this, and then effectively executed this over the two and a half decades that I was in the Marine Corps working with, and leading Marines in my charge.

So why in the "sam hill" could I not use all these great leadership abilities/capabilites that I perfected as a Staff non-Commissioned Officer in the Marines, in my own marriage relationship ()... .

Because silly (Red5)... .you aren't dealing with a bunch of young hard charging leather neck (and head) jarheads... .no Devil Dog, because this here is a woman , and this one here is a different and far more complicated configuration of the type model series thereof; AND... .with a new software load called borderline personality disorder (perceived/undiagnosed)... .so I had to re-educate myself, insert "understatement" here... .

No more rescuing, no more "fair arguments"... .this one you will not change to see things your way... .so just STOP it... .and "get onboard with that frame of mind" !

Cat writes: He's learned that he gets more of my attention and focus when he's pleasant to be around. In the past, I spent years reinforcing behavior I didn't want by paying too much attention to it.

This is starting to happen in my own marriage/relationship now... .after I learnt to just "let it go" per say... .and "take my ears, my feelings, and my energy elsewhere", then seems the message is starting to get through somewhat to my u/BPD wife... .

So much has changed for me in the past fifteen months, .and my see-saw that Lucky Jim spoke of the other day;... .is pretty much broke down now... .

This all (BPD behavior traits thereof) certainly wears you down after a while, it is exhausting at times, as I have written before, sometimes I feel like I am living with a grown child... .there is a lot going on in that pretty little head of hers ... .

I think I witnessed some triggering events this past weekend (FOO related), .and last night she was talking about her past (FOO), and I noted that there was a "re-write" of some historical events, .yeah, something is up ?

A great mystery for sure, lots of little pieces of her past are bubbling to the surface due to some events that have happened of late regarding her own (FOO) family... .I believe this is having an effect on her "psychology" that is not good, lots of anger is right there below the surface in regards to her immediate family (FOO) dynamics... .some unfinished business as it were, .seems to have been triggered by some rather "big" events of late, .we'll see I reckon what transpires.

Am I about to witness a great information release, am I about to crack a great mystery, that may just explain "why" my beautiful BPD wife is the way she is... .

Now where did I put my decoder ring... .

See ... .still trying to "fix" aren't I  

Red5

[Lucky Jim]

Because silly (Red5) ... .you aren't dealing with a bunch of young hard charging leather neck (and head) jarheads ... .no Devil Dog, because this here is a woman , and this one here is a different and far more complicated configuration of the type model series thereof; AND ... .with a new software load called borderline personality disorder (perceived/undiagnosed) ... .so I had to re-educate myself, insert "understatement" here ... .

Nicely said, Red5.  I'm still learning about that "new software load"!     Yes, it requires a re-education effort to get a handle on BPD, which is a "horse of a different color"!   

LuckyJim

[Red5]

Nicely said, Red5.  I'm still learning about that "new software load"!     Yes, it requires a re-education effort to get a handle on BPD, which is a "horse of a different color"!   

LuckyJim

"A horse is a horse is a horse of course... .unless the horse is BPD" !

... .then the horse may be a unicorn ?

Watch that horn !

[Lucky Jim]

Hello Wilbur!      My marriage to my BPDxW, sad to say, was nothing like a Mr. Ed episode!   

LJ

[nuthereggsheller]

Oh, you guys are awesome!  I wish we all could go hangout for coffee or something!  Cat has me self-analyzing and saying "ooOOoohhhhh!" and Red, well, Red just has me rolling on the floor laughing. Tough ol' Marine befuddled by his little woman. !  Lol... . 

SO! I'm seeing the need to care less about "preventing/managing/insert verb of choice" his feelings, not get played into the game anymore, and remove myself.  Now here is my own emotional hurdle... .

Just over a year ago when he got triggered, and I didn't try to build a bridge, but just let him stew while I remained accessible if he wanted to talk, and went on with my stuff - going to work, etc.  That's when he continued the ST for a couple of days, and decided to cheat on me.  He was very dysregulated when this happened, claimed he wasn't upset with me and yet he was giving me the angry look and cold shoulder, wouldn't talk to me, slept on the sofa, (not angry, huh?) and lied to me when I called him on my way home from work as a courtesy, and when he didn't come home when I thought he would, I caught him and the OW.  That's when he finally "snapped out of it."  He was busted. I was devastated.

So, yeah, it's probably my own emotional hurdle of hoping to avoid that deja vu.  But if it does happen again, I'm done.  I was actually done a year ago, and I wish I had not given him another chance, but I've read that this is also a tendency of the BPD co-dependent partner. Ugh. I did try to consider the fact that he isn't emotionally healthy, but I feel like I over-empathized to my own hurt. And what if that episode was enough to truly snap him out of doing something that stupid again, and in time, he will do what Cat's guy has done, and calm down a bit, and I end up with an "okay enough" situation that I can live with?

So now I'm just trying to make the best of it, keep my eyes open but not let "keeping my eyes open" dominate my daily feelings. It seems he's making a genuine effort most of the time, however, when he does dysregulate now, it evokes all that pain from last year in me, wondering if this time he's going to cheat again and I will need to deal with that pain, plus be strong enough to kick him out on his sorry a** for good.

[Red5]

So, yeah, it's probably my own emotional hurdle of hoping to avoid that deja vu.  But if it does happen again, I'm done.  I was actually done a year ago, and I wish I had not given him another chance, but I've read that this is also a tendency of the BPD co-dependent partner.

Ah'... .my old friend codependency... .I wore this "badge" for the last eleven years of my first marriage, there was also cheating at year 9, and 10 of 21 years... .then it happened again in year 20 of 21 years... .and that was it... .I went through all the "it’s me" stuff, anything to explain "why"... .of course there was plenty of blame for me to take on from stbxw at that time... .eleven years is a long time to go through the fixing processes, and only to have it go south in the end anyways... .codependency (FOG) kept me there for way too long, but if you ask me why I stayed for so long; I'll say I stayed for the kids... .which is also true.

Ugh. I did try to consider the fact that he isn't emotionally healthy, but I feel like I over-empathized to my own hurt.

I will give an example here;... .you know, being an alcoholic is also not "emotionally healthy", and even more so when your sig-other [alcoholic] crashes your brand new red jeep while in an "emotionally unhealthy state"... .best not brush aside any emotional hurt, better off to go ahead and let yourself feel the pain of seeing your pretty new red jeep smashed... .feelings that are pushed down, and ignored will return again, and will be even more acute (painful) as they have had time to "ferment"... .

And what if that episode was enough to truly snap him out of doing something that stupid again, and in time, he will do what Cat's guy has done, and calm down a bit, and I end up with an "okay enough" situation that I can live with?

Ending up with an "okay enough" situation that I can live with means for me that I have seen the worst?... .like getting a tetanus shot, or a root canal, .so if it happens again, you will recognize the hurt all over again, and you know how extreme the pain will be, ie' when my first wife cheated on me the first time, then the second time, and then the final time... .no surprises, as I knew exactly how I was going to feel, and then I decided to make changes for my own self-worth.

So now I'm just trying to make the best of it, keep my eyes open but not let "keeping my eyes open" dominate my daily feelings.

In Red5's current marriage, to u/BPDw #2... ."keeping my eyes open" does indeed dominate my daily feelings, actions... .I am always watching her, and I know exactly the moment when she starts to slip her rail, .can't ever let my guard down, got to keep one eye dedicated to watching her, very exhausting.

It seems he's making a genuine effort most of the time, however, when he does dysregulate now, it evokes all that pain from last year in me, wondering if this time he's going to cheat again and I will need to deal with that pain, plus be strong enough to kick him out on his sorry a** for good.

This is the "crux" of the life we all seem to be living, we do have good times with our sig-others, .but we cannot ever let our guards down completely, as we know oh' so well, that it is an absolute that our sig-other pw/BPD IS going to dysgregulate over something, even after you have spent your entire day (energy) removing, hiding, and attempting to camouflage ALL perceived triggers from their paths... .yet they STILL find one, and kaboom... .

I have become very accustomed to that dull, sour, sore feeling down in my gut when my u/BPDw starts in on me about some stupid k-r-a-p, .something I'd missed, but she has found it... .and now she is slipping away again into the BPD twilight zone... .

Do you feel that you are not living as the person you really are, as in, with me (example)... .I watch every single thing I say to her, around her, the way I act, what I am to share with her, talk to her about, include her in... .etc'... .so as to possibly avoid yet another dysregulation - extreme disagreement-fight... .no, I am a far different person around her; u/BPD wife than I am around other acquaintances... .again, exhausting.

Red5