Building an action plan, need guidance (Part 2)

[Radcliff]

Roland,

Option 1 has many advantages for your family, though still places demands on you.  Regardless of the eventual outcome of the marriage, DBT training is a win for her, you, and the kids.  If you are able to get her into it, your presence in the relationship helps make it more effective (she gets positive reinforcement for her improving skills, since you'll be giving her positive feedback) and probably makes it more likely she'll stay in it.  There's a risk of me saying this, because I don't want to guilt you into staying.  But let's just say you know in your heart of hearts that you want to leave.  Putting in a year to support DBT in order to have her healthier before you leave could yield benefits for the kids, you, and her.  Co-parenting after a split could be much better with someone who had a year of DBT under her belt.

The caveat here, is that depending on how much damage has been done, and how much is asked of you, Option 1 could drive you into the ground.  Can you see a scenario where you're able to establish boundaries, get enough support, do enough self care to stay healthy while remaining in the home through a year of DBT?  Paying attention to the physical toll on you is very wise.

WW

[RolandOfEld]

Redeemed yes I am worried she might break down into constant dysregulation under that kind of stress, and the drinking would definitely come back. Possible eventual acceptance of treatment, but probably not until after much damage had been done. Despite her love for them, I think it amounts to throwing my kids to the lions.

WW again you raise the key question, one I plan to work with my therapist on, of just how much I can take and under what conditions. If my wife agrees to let me take the singing class, if the therapy goes well, if the new boundaries set by calling the police hold, will that have a strong enough improvement on my mental state to last until she gets treatment and for the possible 2-5 years it may take to be effective? Or will I still fall apart over one comment about my dead mother?

Either way, I really like the picture you paint better than the other scenarios and it certainly has its benefits. It's a direction worth striving towards even if it doesn't work. I will not abandon the well for the possibility of rain.  

I'll note today that she just apologized for a very small outburst last night. I'm really curious how calling the cops has affected her thinking. As far as I can remember, I have never done anything in response to her behaviors other than yell, make hollow overtures towards separation, or most often, cry. She was all tough and rude with them while they were here, but again, I think she was truly scared. Hope it's not just wishful thinking.

~ROE

 

[Radcliff]

if the new boundaries set by calling the police hold,

Remember, maintaining boundaries will take ongoing work just to hold your ground.  And I'm willing to venture that your boundaries are not where you'd like them to be and you'll want to continue to grow and gain ground.

will that have a strong enough improvement on my mental state to last until she gets treatment and for the possible 2-5 years it may take to be effective? Or will I still fall apart over one comment about my dead mother?

2 years seems plausible.  5 years feels like a stretch.  Not that I have any credentials, but it feels like she'd hit her best possible state well before 5 years.  2 years happens to match the "time budget" my therapist recommended that I put on my marriage.  My wife's therapist said that her case was serious enough she'd definitely need more than one year, and the therapist mentioned two (I'm a little vague; I think she said it might take 1-2 years for someone less serious than my wife).  You'll be doing your own calculus based on where the helpers say your wife is and where you and your T think you are.  That calculus may change over time.  My therapist's exact words were, "Give it up to two years, and you may know before that."

WW

[RolandOfEld]

Hi WW, good reminder about the boundaries. I really hope I don't have to call the police again. But I know I may have to if it reaches the point where me or my kids' physical safety is in danger or my personal belongings are violated.

Thanks for the reference on the DBT treatment. The books I'd read gave me a feeling of many years to recovery. Of course everyone is different and not everyone recovers.

~ROE

[Radcliff]

Thanks for the reference on the DBT treatment. The books I'd read gave me a feeling of many years to recovery. Of course everyone is different and not everyone recovers.

Roland, if you have to choose between believing me and believing the books, your best money may be on the books!  The big thing I keyed on was a 5 year timeline to get you to a healthy place.  That seems like too long, i.m.h.o.  If you're at a healthy sustainable place, and get even better from year 4 to year 5, that's great.  As long as you're confident things are going well for the kids, that you don't lose yourself, and that your needs are taken care of as well.  It's super hard to accept the fact that we deserve to be happy, too.  My father set an example of sacrificing his happiness in an attempt to keep my mom and my sister happy, and I'm following in his footsteps exactly!

WW

[Cat Familiar]

... .just how much I can take and under what conditions. If my wife agrees to let me take the singing class, if the therapy goes well, if the new boundaries set by calling the police hold, will that have a strong enough improvement on my mental state to last until she gets treatment and for the possible 2-5 years it may take to be effective? Or will I still fall apart over one comment about my dead mother?

The way you worded this makes me think that boundary strengthening reading would be very worthwhile. I understand that couples need to negotiate how to spend disposable income as well as allot for personal time away from the family, but the phrase "if my wife agrees to let me" makes me think that you've handed over more power to her than you give yourself.

I used to seek agreement and permission and now I just announce what my plans are and my life is much more peaceful. I don't know if that would work in your marriage, but it's certainly made a difference in mine.

[Radcliff]

The way you worded this makes me think that boundary strengthening reading would be very worthwhile. I understand that couples need to negotiate how to spend disposable income as well as allot for personal time away from the family, but the phrase "if my wife agrees to let me" makes me think that you've handed over more power to her than you give yourself.

I used to seek agreement and permission and now I just announce what my plans are and my life is much more peaceful. I don't know if that would work in your marriage, but it's certainly made a difference in mine.

Cat, these are wise words, and I'm really glad you keyed on this.  Learning this part about boundaries was a big deal for me, and was quite a change from what I'd been doing.  The fact that I thought my wife always had to agree to the boundaries goes a long way towards explaining why I had almost none for 30 years!

WW

[Cat Familiar]

 
The fact that I thought my wife always had to agree to the boundaries goes a long way towards explaining why I had almost none for 30 years!

That's one of the problems with being a nice person. I too, felt that I had to seek agreement in everything. Of course, I wanted to make my partner happy. What could be better? We could both be happy and in agreement!

Well, perhaps that works with a healthy partner. I wouldn't know. I haven't had one of those. For all I know, they're as mythical as a unicorn.

But to go back to the concept of "making my partner happy"---there's a lot to unpack there. For one, that statement assumes I have power over my partner's mood. And also that I should be deciding that my partner needs or wants or should be happy? Sounds pretty controlling now I think about it.

And controlling because I want to be happy. I always chalked up my motivation to "good intentions" but when I look at it this way, trying to control someone else's mood is more for my own comfort and happiness.   

[RolandOfEld]

Hi Cat, you're right that I have handed over far more power over the years than I should have, a lot due to extreme guilt over 1) the pain my wife went through during pregnancy 2) the fact that she's been at home with the kids for 4 years and sacrificed her job (I sort of did, too) and 3) Overall guilt issues due to BPD or BPDish Jewish mother. I'm starting to let go of this guilt. The reason I said she needed to agree to it is because she'll have to take the kids for me to do it. If she doesn't agree, my options are almost non existent.

Incidentally, I talked to her about it and she's supporting me to take the class. So there's that.  

Little boundary update over the weekend. While I was out of the room my son was jumping on the couch near little sister drinking milk and my wife pushed him off the couch. I didn't see it happen and couldn't assess the severity. But I confronted her about it later and she dysregulated immediately, starting throwing accusations of molesting our daughter at me to make me see how it felt. At one point I heard her taking pictures of things and she explained how she could accuse me. I laid out how I felt about the other abuse incidents and she said it was her parenting style and who was I to judge her with my high American standards, even though she had deeply criticized herself for those episodes and had promised herself never to do it again. It made me understand why the lawyer had warned me against calling the police or child services about abuse. She could easily turn the tables on me if I'm not careful.

WW I read a passage in the Boundaries book today I found very important explaining how we can't set boundaries with others by criticizing or complaining to them about their behavior since there's no true consequence. I find this infinitely true with my wife and most of my talk after these episodes is wasted breath. It just reminded me that I have to play the long game on this and be careful. Keep working on coaxing her into treatment while building my strength and gathering my resources if it doesn't happen before I could lose my sanity.

~ROE  

[RolandOfEld]

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[Radcliff]

Hi Roland,

I'm glad the Boundaries book is helping! 

WW