Reconciliation after violence?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Having finally gotten safe, I've resolved that I will never, ever again live in a situation where things like wallet, keys, cell phone, laptop, and clothes are at risk.  That is just such a violation of trust in what is supposed to be the safest relationship we have.  A healthy relationship seems impossible under those circumstances.  Honestly, I think it may have been worse than the physical abuse. 

I think the physical part, although it sucks, wasn't that bad. I got some scuffs, lost some hair. Not a big deal. The most pain came from the earful of hour plus long loud monologues that are just so degrading... .like I'm in a communist prison camp undergoing "reformation".  I mean, wow, she can really go to work and puts a ton of effort in to breaking me down psychologically. That is definitely wayyy more painful than the physical hurt.

And yes, possessions going missing is a huge violation of trust. I too have had to hide extra keys, cell phone, backup credit card & ID, and shoes outside the house just in case I had to run out. I've had to use them too. I know what you mean that it takes stepping back and getting time to breath on your own to realize how messed up and unhealthy the situation is... .

My lawyer has been asking for the stuff but he doesn't have any other ideas. She does what she does. To her it's fair game since I "betrayed" her by kicking her out of the house. I definitely regret not having her kicked out immediately when she was served. I was being nice by giving her till the next day.

[greenyard]

Having finally gotten safe, I've resolved that I will never, ever again live in a situation where things like wallet, keys, cell phone, laptop, and clothes are at risk.  That is just such a violation of trust in what is supposed to be the safest relationship we have.  A healthy relationship seems impossible under those circumstances.  Honestly, I think it may have been worse than the physical abuse. 

I think the physical part, although it sucks, wasn't that bad. I got some scuffs, lost some hair. Not a big deal. The most pain came from the earful of hour plus long loud monologues that are just so degrading... .like I'm in a communist prison camp undergoing "reformation".  I mean, wow, she can really go to work and puts a ton of effort in to breaking me down psychologically. That is definitely wayyy more painful than the physical hurt.

And yes, possessions going missing is a huge violation of trust. I too have had to hide extra keys, cell phone, backup credit card & ID, and shoes outside the house just in case I had to run out. I've had to use them too. I know what you mean that it takes stepping back and getting time to breath on your own to realize how messed up and unhealthy the situation is... .

My lawyer has been asking for the stuff but he doesn't have any other ideas. She does what she does. To her it's fair game since I "betrayed" her by kicking her out of the house. I definitely regret not having her kicked out immediately when she was served. I was being nice by giving her till the next day.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[RolandOfEld]

Hope you can laugh a little about the underwear thing. My wife never took my underwear. She focused on expensive work clothing mostly. She also drenched my shoes once so I had no shoes to wear outside of the house. Clothes is definitely a thing.

ROE

[Radcliff]

Yes, after the fact, the underwear is a little funny.  Not greenyard's t-shirts, though.  Ouch!  They are of no use to her.  You don't mess with a guy's t-shirts.  I've got quite the collection.  I may have fraternity party t-shirts older than greenyard and Roland!

WW

[greenyard]

HAHA. Funny but not funny. The underwear is not your walmart or target brands. I'm snobby about my clothes, especially my underwear. She also took my team athletic jerseys with custom prints on them too. Those were over $100 a piece and are not replaceable.

Funny you mention your shoes being drenched... .I got a story:
One time when I was assaulted in December (choke hold for 30 or so minutes while I was on the ground, hand over my mouth because I was screaming for help). After she gave up, she let me go and then kicked me in the back (hurt for a week since I have a slipped disc). I got away, called the police to get an escort to grab clothes. It was cold outside around 35F. I was in shorts and a t-shirt barefoot. When the cops came 20 minutes later, I wanted to get my parka, and it was hanging in the shower all wet... .I asked why it was wet and she said "your coat smelled funny, I thought I'd be nice and wash it". Yeah right... .

[Radcliff]

When the cops came 20 minutes later, I wanted to get my parka, and it was hanging in the shower all wet... .I asked why it was wet and she said "your coat smelled funny, I thought I'd be nice and wash it". Yeah right... .

Well, obviously she was never a Boy Scout.  They taught us in winter survival training to hang the garment up until it froze, then beat the ice off of it.  Should you ever find yourself in that situation again.  But really, the secret to a good marriage is a spare parka hidden somewhere else on the property 

Sorry, funny but not funny.

Congrats, b.t.w. on the good job review!  That's awesome!  Having a job you love really is a fantastic thing.

WW

[Radcliff]

greenyard,

I notice that we've fallen into commiseration, which is easy to do, and healthy to a point, when folks have shared common negative experiences.  It certainly makes me feel a little better to know that I'm not alone (except of course I regret anyone else having to experience abuse).

But we've wandered a bit from the intent of your original post.  You were processing your feelings about the relationship, and thinking about where to go from here.  How are you doing on that?  No rush, your thoughts will likely continue to evolve, just wanted to point us back at your original post.

WW

[greenyard]

greenyard,

I notice that we've fallen into commiseration, which is easy to do, and healthy to a point, when folks have shared common negative experiences.  It certainly makes me feel a little better to know that I'm not alone (except of course I regret anyone else having to experience abuse).

But we've wandered a bit from the intent of your original post.  You were processing your feelings about the relationship, and thinking about where to go from here.  How are you doing on that?  No rush, your thoughts will likely continue to evolve, just wanted to point us back at your original post.

WW

Thanks for bringing this back on point Wentworth. I have been trying not to rush the decision. Being alone again, slowly the FOG is lifting, I am starting to be able to think on my own again. I still have nightmares and panic attacks when I wake up. But those are becoming less and less. This morning, 10 minutes ago, I did not wake up with a panic attack.

I'm still trying to process everything, what happened, when did the abuse start, why did it start, what my mistakes in life were? Did I really neglect her? was I abusive? What could I have done differently? The more I think about it, the more I realize that the answer is no I couldn't have done too much different about it. Even with proper boundaries, she would have been a difficult person, and likely would have left me.

I am a very passionate person. I work hard. I play hard. I'm a very analytical person. I try not to get caught up in negative emotions. I like life to be happy and fun. I like everything in excess. I like for stress in life to be those events that come from athletic events, career technical obstacles, hobbies. Thinking back on our marriage, early on, my freedom gradually eroded, starting with my hobbies, then friends and family, then my own thoughts and basic liberty. I anticipate that a divorce is likely. And with that I will likely lose half the wealth I have built up.

For the past 5 years, I think my wife has been living in fear of me leaving her and that is part of the reason she has become this way. I have had my vices: porn, looking at other women, but I always came back to her and LOVED her unconditionally. She know's I have high market value for a different mate (I have good income, I'm smart, handsome, healthy, athletic) but I've always come back to her. 3 years ago my love for her was weak because she was already contemptuous regularly and at a friend's party, I came across an old crush. I tried to cheat on my wife with that old crush but that woman rejected me. So I never had the affair. It took a while, but I eventually told my wife about the encounter in an effort to be honest. My wife was devestated, and she never forgave me. It was at this point the relationship really started to become abusive and she used that accidental affair attempt as leverage to stomp all over me. I deeply regret making that mistake and I will never cheat on her again, or with any future partner. I've been begging for forgiveness since then and it has not been granted. In retrospect, I should have left her not too long after that. But I did not understand boundaries and the importance of self respect and self worth. So yeah, I totally enabled her destructive behavior. 

I guess I should mention the 3 big reasons I haven't left yet. I'm not sure which one is more important but they are:
- My wife and I have a lot of history together. We have amazing unique great interests in life and we totally complement each other. I'm so fearful of losing this and not being able to find someone else to replace this. I dated women, searching for these complimentary interests and it took 10 years. I'm not saying I dumped all the previous women, mostly they dumped me. So yeah, I've held on to my BPDw and let her walk all over me.
- The sex is amazing. My wife is actually very beautiful. She's 5'6", and weighs 110 lbs. Shes fit and has a very beautiful young looking face. I'm fit and handsome too. Sex is our favorite past time. We have lots of it. I've had other girlfriends in the past that weren't as beautiful as her, and I definitely loved them less. I know this sounds shallow, but that's how it is. Of course, our compatibility of our interests really help improve this as well.
- Finances. I started working for a company when it was in it's startup phase and now its greatly successful. I've gained significant (to me) ownership of the company that would facilitate an early retirement when I reach 50. I fear losing half of these assets in a divorce - it would mean delaying retirement till I am 60. Age discrimination is something I'm super aware of. I know too many folks that are out of a job at 50. I worked really hard early on to be successful in this company, 70 to 80 hours a week for 3 years hard. Even with all of that, I still cooked 80% of our meals at home because I love to cook and share food with my partner. I believe it's important to share our sustenance together. It's an important human ritual that's as old as culture and I believe it strengthens intimate bonds.

Anyway... .The more I think about it, I would rather have peace and happiness now, on my own, than hold on to those 3 things. I want to be secure in my possessions, I don't want my toys and things destroyed because I slighted her. It's just not right and is a huge violation of respect and boundaries. She slights me all the time, if it were a normal person, we'd talk about it (but she has BPD and it turns into battles so I avoid it). Life is too short and there will be other women to meet. I do not have children that will bind us till death. So slowly, day by day I'm realizing I need to cut my losses and move on. I think at this point the only reason I'm hanging on is to make sure she gets treatment so she doesn't F up the next guy's life. But I guess I can have the court mandate batterers rehab... .I just fear that that method is more of a whip. If she has hope of getting me back, that might be more of a carrot... .

With that said, I need to get a shower and get ready for work... .

[Radcliff]

greenyard,

This is a lot to process.  There is no rush.  Do it on your own time.

I'm sorry to hear about the nightmares and panic attacks.  I can relate.  I'm sorry, I can't remember if you said whether you have a therapist?  Given what you've experienced, your symptoms are not at all surprising.  They are treatable.  There is both long-term treatment, as well as techniques for managing acute events like panic attacks and overwhelming feelings.  There is a trauma treatment technique called EMDR that you may find effective.  For near-term coping you may also be interested to check out the Community Resiliency Model which also uses an app called iChill.

Let me also mention that impulsiveness, including self-harming impulses, is possible when dealing with this sort of trauma recovery.  How are you doing on that score?

WW

[greenyard]

I am seeing a T. I saw her wednesday. I told her I want to take a break though for several weeks - I've been seeing her since October. I want to be me again and get re-absorbed into my work and hobbies and friends.

Thanks for those tips Wentworth. I have been doing meditation daily, usually one 10 min session mid day, and somehting longer before sleep. I will try your suggestions.

As for self harm, I am not doing that and have no interest in that, other than exercising hard on the weekends. There were times when she was yelling at me and putting me down that I would start hitting myself... .I remeber this happening as far back as 4 years ago... .wow, I just remembered that. I'm glad she is gone and the emotional abuse has stopped - I never ever ever ever want to feel that way again. Is self harm like that even something you can describe in a court? Is that something they can even understand and believe? What i felt was real - there is no evidence of it but it happened... .

I'm taking care not to drink too much alcohol. I am having a beer or 2 after work to chill out but I stop there. On the weekends I'm keeping the drinking down as well. No hard liquor, just 3-4 beers.  Although I do miss my bourbon. I had a nice collection of whiskey, bottles priced between $30 and $100 each. About a dozen varieties. She sadly threw those all away. I didn't drink them much, they were there for tastings with friends... .which were rarely invited over because she wouldn't allow it. 

[Radcliff]

greenyard,

Self harm can be overt, like hitting yourself (I'm sorry you experienced that, by the way, it sucks), or simply behaving irresponsibly, carelessly, or impulsively at home or about town.  If you find yourself taking risks you might otherwise not have, feeling impulses you normally wouldn't, etc., take note.

Why would you be describing it in court?  Not a challenge, just asking so I don't respond in an irrelevant direction.

WW

[greenyard]

Self harm can be overt, like hitting yourself (I'm sorry you experienced that, by the way, it sucks), or simply behaving irresponsibly, carelessly, or impulsively at home or about town.  If you find yourself taking risks you might otherwise not have, feeling impulses you normally wouldn't, etc., take note.

Will do. I generally think I've been pretty responsible and non impulsive. I have done a lot of high risk / high adrenaline sports in the past (most of my life) and still do till today, but definitely more mellow in the past few years given the accumulation of injuries (and chronic pain). As long as I'm not being yelled at and emotionally put down by an external person, I think I'm pretty good to go. The high adrenaline sports have always been something that gives me clarity of thought - but that doesn't mean that I'll go out there and take on additional risk and do something new and even more dangerous.

Why would you be describing it in court?  Not a challenge, just asking so I don't respond in an irrelevant direction.

I suspect this ordeal will go to court, and I envision myself on the witness stand testifying to some of the abuse. I wonder about that kind of abuse, this kind of pain - the verbal and emotional abuse, the monologues the are seemingly endless, the negative words, the guilt trips, and how that made me feel... .like in a nightmare that wont stop and I can't wake up, even when I caused myself pain... .Just thinking about it gives me shivers and causes a head ache... .I just wonder if this kind of pain, this kind of assault, is something that can be attested to on the witness stand? It's real pain and damage, there's just no scars on the skin... .

[Radcliff]

I suspect this ordeal will go to court, and I envision myself on the witness stand testifying to some of the abuse. I wonder about that kind of abuse, this kind of pain - the verbal and emotional abuse, the monologues the are seemingly endless, the negative words, the guilt trips, and how that made me feel... .like in a nightmare that wont stop and I can't wake up, even when I caused myself pain... .Just thinking about it gives me shivers and causes a head ache... .I just wonder if this kind of pain, this kind of assault, is something that can be attested to on the witness stand? It's real pain and damage, there's just no scars on the skin... .

Court is a nice thing to avoid.  For any criminal case, the DA will likely care only about what they need to prove the case for any charges.

W.r.t. family court, you only go to court if the parties can't work it out directly.  Things like division of property, spousal support, etc. have to be figured out.  Whether the various aspects of what you suffered would be relevant to those determinations in your state is something to ask your lawyer. 

On the particular issue of self-harm, you're not likely to be dealing with an audience very sophisticated about mental health.  Things that make you appear to be the one with the problem are not likely to be helpful to you.  Concrete harms like destroyed property, assaults with photos or that were charged, etc. are the things the system will understand better.  Work with your lawyer and therapist to figure out what your objectives are and how to achieve them and get on with life as quickly as possible, generating as little waste heat as possible.

One particular thing court is not good for is validation.  The results are too unpredictable, the effort too high.  There are better ways to get validated

WW

[greenyard]

Honestly, I want to avoid going to court if at all possible. I just want this whole thing to be over with... .I want to move on and heal and be happy and have a loving partner again. I should just get it over with like ripping a band aid off - abrupt and fast... .

Something tells me though, she will fight and delay just so she can get spousal support and drag this out as she doesn't have a job, and therefor will not have health insurance when she's not tied to me.

[greenyard]

Thanks Red5 for pointing me to Ashley Berges. This video (trapped in a relationship with someone suffering from BPD) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqRLq4BP-XA totally describes my situation... .

I really really wish I came across this information years... .How much happier I could have been... .

[babyducks]

Hi greenyard,

I wanted to jump in and join this conversation.    First let me welcome you (albeit belatedly) to the family.  I've been reading along with your experience and what I notice is what a very good job you are doing of handling a difficult situation.   I imagine it doesn't feel that way to you right now but if you will trust an outsiders perspective you are.

I just want this whole thing to be over with... .I want to move on and heal and be happy and have a loving partner again. I should just get it over with like ripping a band aid off - abrupt and fast... .

Something tells me though, she will fight and delay just so she can get spousal support and drag this out as she doesn't have a job, and therefor will not have health insurance when she's not tied to me.

I do understand the desire to get through this, be done, get it over with and get on with our lives.    but I do suspect you are right, this will probably take longer than you hope for.

Some one upstream said much of these types of relationships are about power and control.        Yes they are.   Why steal underwear or destroy possessions or limit free movement?   It's all about the control.    for what its worth my Ex stole something of mine, long story and too much of a digression but I've spent some time trying to figure out the why of it.   

What I found helpful to my understanding was an older post by another member.   It's technically dense and uses some terms that have one meaning in the common parlance and another in the world of psychology.   I've gone back and read it,  oh a dozen times or so.     It's a lot to process.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121218.0

Borderlines are people in psychological bondage.  Their earliest source of human interaction (the Mother, i.e; parental object) may have also been in psychological bondage- and clung to others.  The easiest person to cling to- is a person who cannot say no, i.e., her child.

The Mother may have idolized the infant at birth as a reflection of herself but never allowed the child to separate (autonomy.)

Instead of raising her child to be authentic and with a solid concept of self, she subsumed and objectified the baby as a permanent part of herself. Mother adored the baby as a reflection of herself, causing the baby to mirror and then cling to her - in response to Mother’s fears. Mother then began to suspect and fear the child’s separateness which triggered her own separation anxiety and she began to scapegoat the child for having its own mind.

This taught the infant to hide the true self and provide a false self instead, one that was the perfect mirror to prove worthiness and to survive the whims of the hypercritical Parent. The child learned that to become something other than an “object,” a mirror… was wrong. 

According to James F. Masterson, scapegoating is the cause for the Borderline’s failure to learn the necessary *adaptive skills* to free themselves from bondage. ... //... Does the borderline love?  Yes. Does that love equate with freedom to be and live the way they want? No. Love has been taught to be a choreographed pattern of response to their objectification (nullification of self)- with servitude, mirroring, and clinging to ensure that they survive.

I did some cutting and pasting to make this a shorter read.   and the bolding is mine.

From what I witnessed in my relationship Masterson's observations are spot on.    My Ex never developed a fully independent and self sufficient sense of self and clung like a Remora fish to a host for survival.    There was definetly a choregraphed pattern to my relationship.    and most certainly my Ex pushed to merge into an amoeba like oneness.   when that amoeba like oneness didn't happen she lashed out as if she was fighting for her very life.   because to her,  from her perspective she was.

I'm guessing from reading your thread up until now you view autonomy as a good thing, and strong seperate identities as a plus.   I suspect that she, however,  will see them as a threat to her existence.   I'm mentioning it because,... .well because forwarned is forearmed.       I would suggest you marshal and manage your energy for the long haul.    Not a sprint,  a marathon.

Nice thread greenyard.    I appreciate your honesty, effort and sincerity.

'ducks