The result of push pull...I "pulled" a bit and she pushed..not surprising

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So... .the good part.  I was ready for this, and while disappointing and a bit sad this mornings events were low on the "triggering" scale.  My plan is to not engage for a few days... .as this will likely burn itself out.

Details.

We had gone to a MercyMe concert a while back.  Frankly, I didn't know much about the band.  So, I'm listening to the guy (I'll try to be concise) and I'm tracking with what he says and then he concludes by "wondering" "Is Jesus enough... "

I can only say that it "hit me" in places where it's hard to express with words.  I've not been moved by hearing something like that in a long time.

So... I've been reflecting on that for a while (many weeks... .over a month) and trying to sort out how that applies to me, my marriage... my family... .etc etc.

Well... .I decided to finally share with my wife.  I told her I wanted to "be closer" with her and that I hoped we could come together around "Is Jesus enough... ."

Well... .she seems to believe and express that "if Jesus is enough" that means you would (insert a ton of religious activity)

Which is (unsurprisingly) the opposite of how I was considering that phrase.

Over the weekend we went to see the movie about MercyMe "I can only imagine" (really good movie).  So... she references the movie and asserts that "the only way (insert movie character) changed is that he read his Bible through... .twice" and "that changed him... "

I knew enough not to argue... .

Well... I suppose it frustrated her that I wouldn't engage... so she asked "what do you want from me"

then... in BPDish style she listed off all the things (think victimization) that she does "for me".  I agreed with all the things she said... .

She says "so what is it... ?"

I say "kindness and understanding... ."

with a hint of contempt she asks...

"understand what"

I say "what I actually think, feel and believe... "

She huffs a bit, some eye roll and walks out of the room.

Well... .the "answer" to all this is that she rolled the kids out of bed an hour before normal this morning and apparently "bullied" them with the Bible (think demanding and berating them) for not knowing this... not know that.

I stayed in bed and didn't directly engage.  (let it burn itself out is the plan)  I time or two when she breezed through the room I asked her to come snuggle and have our quiet time (like we normally do in the morning).  She stopped by for a minute or two and in a "sickly sweet" way... .was kissing on my back... .talking about honoring the Lord" then breezed away.

Enough for now... .anyway... .my guess is if I had not attempted more intimacy with sharing about "is Jesus enough" that we would have had our normal quiet time this morning... .and the kids would have slept another 45 minutes... perhaps an hour.

Oddly enough... .I'm still glad I tried to share... .although I can't really explain that right now.

FF

[formflier]

So... .the good part.  I was ready for this, and while disappointing and a bit sad this mornings events were low on the "triggering" scale.  My plan is to not engage for a few days... .as this will likely burn itself out.

Details.

We had gone to a MercyMe concert a while back.  Frankly, I didn't know much about the band.  So, I'm listening to the guy (I'll try to be concise) and I'm tracking with what he says and then he concludes by "wondering" "Is Jesus enough... "

I can only say that it "hit me" in places where it's hard to express with words.  I've not been moved by hearing something like that in a long time.

So... I've been reflecting on that for a while (many weeks... .over a month) and trying to sort out how that applies to me, my marriage... my family... .etc etc.

Well... .I decided to finally share with my wife.  I told her I wanted to "be closer" with her and that I hoped we could come together around "Is Jesus enough... ."

Well... .she seems to believe and express that "if Jesus is enough" that means you would (insert a ton of religious activity)

Which is (unsurprisingly) the opposite of how I was considering that phrase.

Over the weekend we went to see the movie about MercyMe "I can only imagine" (really good movie).  So... she references the movie and asserts that "the only way (insert movie character) changed is that he read his Bible through... .twice" and "that changed him... "

I knew enough not to argue... .

Well... I suppose it frustrated her that I wouldn't engage... so she asked "what do you want from me"

then... in BPDish style she listed off all the things (think victimization) that she does "for me".  I agreed with all the things she said... .

She says "so what is it... ?"

I say "kindness and understanding... ."

with a hint of contempt she asks...

"understand what"

I say "what I actually think, feel and believe... "

She huffs a bit, some eye roll and walks out of the room.

Well... .the "answer" to all this is that she rolled the kids out of bed an hour before normal this morning and apparently "bullied" them with the Bible (think demanding and berating them) for not knowing this... not know that.

I stayed in bed and didn't directly engage.  (let it burn itself out is the plan)  I time or two when she breezed through the room I asked her to come snuggle and have our quiet time (like we normally do in the morning).  She stopped by for a minute or two and in a "sickly sweet" way... .was kissing on my back... .talking about honoring the Lord" then breezed away.

Enough for now... .anyway... .my guess is if I had not attempted more intimacy with sharing about "is Jesus enough" that we would have had our normal quiet time this morning... .and the kids would have slept another 45 minutes... perhaps an hour.

Oddly enough... .I'm still glad I tried to share... .although I can't really explain that right now.

FF

[juju2]

Thankyou for sharing your struggles ff.

When I was married, 18 yrs ago, we were going to church.  At that time, both of us had very different ideas regarding faith, belief.

Basically I wanted our children to have exposure to the love and hope of God and the Holy Spirit, and also because i was raised in the church... .

the pastor of our church my kids and husb went to was a teacher, not a pastor, he wanted to teach the congregation the love of God.  It was a great church from the teaching aspect... .(posted on another thread how that church became toxic to me... .)

He would share, deal w eachother in relationship, meeting needs, etc, loving one another.

Let God deal w brokenness.  He would say that isn't our role, to deal w anyone's brokenness, distance from God.  He shared, lead by example.
He shared, don't preach.

All things work together for those who love the Lord.  He would share that almost every Sunday.

Thank you f.f.  You help a lot of people!
your share hope and help, to those who have none.
You give!
j

[GaGrl]

Religion and Bible aside, it appears that you crave an intimate marriage, and she does not have a fundamental understanding of intimacy... .or, she does not want intimacy because it triggers or threatens her.

My cousin was married to a person like this.  Whenever, in their 25 year marriage, he would approach her to discuss having more intimacy, she would take it as criticism, that she wasn't "enough" as she was, and the first thing out of her mouth was, "Well, I guess we should separate."

Finally, during one of those conversations, my cousin replies, "You know, you're right.  We should."  She was shocked, but my cousin had moved to knowing the marriage would never be what he wanted or needed.  It was sad to watch, or both sides, because we loved her.

FF, does your wife show limited periods or instances where she demonstrates that she is capable of marital intimacy?

[formflier]

FF, does your wife show limited periods or instances where she demonstrates that she is capable of marital intimacy?

Very astute observations.  That is a slightly different take on it than I have... or had.  Lot's to reflect on there.

Yes... .although since 2009 those times of intimacy are few and far between.   

Basically (as I see it)... .the natural disaster "triggered" each of us to go off in very different directions.  She is "closed off" since then. 

I have empathy for that... it was a distressing event.  I have empathy for her other life circumstance (her FOO).   

That being said... .she has made a choice to "be where she is", my guess is it somehow protects her hurt... her stuff... whatever.

Another quote that illustrates her thinking... .

"The only reason you go to church is to serve God... ."

any thought on my part that you go to worship to learn... .to enjoy grace... ."is selfish"   Ugggg

FF

[Cat Familiar]

"The only reason you go to church is to serve God... ."

any thought on my part that you go to worship to learn... .to enjoy grace... ."is selfish"   Ugggg

OK, here's a heathen's thought on all this:

If you're only at church to serve God, then you're a servant.

If you go to church to learn as well as serve God, then you have an independent mind and spirit and you're choosing to be there, learn and serve God.

To me, being a servant is robotic. Much better to be at choice and choose to serve.

[formflier]

Had a good... .longer session with P today.

Felt good to talk through it.

Felt good to talk through my delivery of my talk and that I pretty much did it the way P wanted it.  Bummer that results were not as hoped.

The short range plan is to continue with disengagement... .focus on stress free prep for spring break trip.  If my wife is insistent on early morning Bible study (bullying) after break... .deal with that then.

There is a pattern where my wife "acts out" before trips... apparently trying to sabotage them (although I really don't think she intellectually thinks that through). 

Anyway... .Cat... .I'm with you. 

FF

[empath]

FF, I've tried to be open and vulnerable recently, too.

In my church, we have a class. The first session was about our need for relationship with God rather than rules. The ironic thing was that week, H had said something very similar to the person who was following the rules and expecting God's favor in return.

Jesus calls his disciples friends, specifically saying we aren't servants.

It's sad, disappointing, and lonely.

[formflier]

Jesus calls his disciples friends, specifically saying we aren't servants.
 

Please share more if you can point me in the right direction... .

I'm not going to "debate" any of this until after spring break... .but... .I'd like to dig into this for later.

FF

[formflier]

So... .things are back to normal in FF household.  She seemed normal after work... I wasn't especially close... .she didn't really push or pull.  It was pleasant. 

Left it at that.

We actually "coparented" fairly effectively.

When you stumble across a youtube video that is titled... ."My sister is a butthole... ." yeah... .those are interesting talks.

Especially since that brother's phone disappeared (into Daddy's custody) this past Sunday after he was "poking others in class"... .

You can't make stuff like this up... .(I actually went to other room... .laughed my ass off... .got my Dad face on... .and then did the parenting thing)

Sigh...

FF

[Cat Familiar]

The ironic thing was that week, H had said something very similar to the person who was following the rules and expecting God's favor in return.

Jesus calls his disciples friends, specifically saying we aren't servants.

It's sad, disappointing, and lonely.

I want to expand the discussion upon this mindset: That if I follow the rules, I will be "rewarded" with whatever I want/need. It's a very childlike point of view--cause/effect thinking. I think that not only do pwBPD harbor this mindset, lots of "normal" people do as well.

The consequence to that way of thinking is if the expected "reward" is not delivered, then one feels cheated or victimized because all the rules have been followed, so where is the reward?

Being a friend is a much more complicated relationship than being a servant. If you examine the etymology of servitude: the state of being a slave or completely subject to someone more powerful--this seems rather incompatible with Jesus' teachings.

Why would Jesus even attempt to teach us anything if the main goal was merely to turn us into slaves?

[formflier]

Being a friend is a much more complicated relationship than being a servant. 

This really stuck out.  Going to have to think on this for a bit.

FF

[empath]

Please share more if you can point me in the right direction... .

John 15:15 "I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you."

It's part of the section where Jesus is talking about the vine and the branches.