Was this triangulation? (Karpman Drama Triangle)

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi everyone. I’m up early and processing.

My ex was around 5-6 months pregnant with our Son at this time. We weren’t living together yet. She was living with her mom with her D8 (5 at the time). I got a call from her, it was between 10/11P.M. She was crying and explaining to me that her mom had kicked her and D8 out of the car, and left them stranded in a very unsafe part of town. They were at a Taco Bell, and I went to get them. I don’t know the exact details. The story was never clearly explained to me. All I know is that my ex and her mom were fighting about something, and that my ex was trying to antagonize her mom into hitting her.

Needless to say, I was furious that her mom would abandon her, while pregnant with our Son, and her D8. Anyway, I went and picked them up. Her plan was to stay with her sister. We drove to her mom’s apartment, and I jumped out of the car and rushed to the door. When her mom answered the door, I said “are you dumb, or just stupid for kicking them out in that part of town, at this time of the night?” I shouldn’t have done it, but I was fuming. Her mom wouldn’t let me in to help my ex gather some belongings, so I waited outside. Her mom locked herself in the bathroom and was wailing.

I got my pregnant ex and D8 safely to her sister’s. We all sat and talked about the situation for a while, and I went home. The next day my ex’s mom told her that she almost killed herself because of her. I was aware that my approach to the situation and my words were out of line. My ex and her sister arranged for her mom and I to meet and discuss it at her sister’s. I told her mom that I was sorry for my words, but what she did put them in danger. She was not receptive. She just sat there, smoking a cigarette, and said “I don’t know if I’ll ever be ready to talk to you”. Eerily, it was like trying to resolve a conflict with my ex. She just stared off in the distance as I tried to reason with her. Total silence.

Was I triangulated here? Was my ex the victim, her mom the persecutor and me the rescuer? Then, did it get switched up to her mom being the victim, my ex being the rescuer and me becoming the persecutor? Why would she call me, crying frantically to come and save her, only to flip the script a few days later? Does her mom have this control over her, or does she need her mom as a resource as she is conveniently there to take the kids on weekends or to shack up with her when she ends up on her a**? It’s all pretty confusing. Any insight is appreciated.

[JNChell]

Hi everyone. I’m up early and processing.

My ex was around 5-6 months pregnant with our Son at this time. We weren’t living together yet. She was living with her mom with her D8 (5 at the time). I got a call from her, it was between 10/11P.M. She was crying and explaining to me that her mom had kicked her and D8 out of the car, and left them stranded in a very unsafe part of town. They were at a Taco Bell, and I went to get them. I don’t know the exact details. The story was never clearly explained to me. All I know is that my ex and her mom were fighting about something, and that my ex was trying to antagonize her mom into hitting her.

Needless to say, I was furious that her mom would abandon her, while pregnant with our Son, and her D8. Anyway, I went and picked them up. Her plan was to stay with her sister. We drove to her mom’s apartment, and I jumped out of the car and rushed to the door. When her mom answered the door, I said “are you dumb, or just stupid for kicking them out in that part of town, at this time of the night?” I shouldn’t have done it, but I was fuming. Her mom wouldn’t let me in to help my ex gather some belongings, so I waited outside. Her mom locked herself in the bathroom and was wailing.

I got my pregnant ex and D8 safely to her sister’s. We all sat and talked about the situation for a while, and I went home. The next day my ex’s mom told her that she almost killed herself because of her. I was aware that my approach to the situation and my words were out of line. My ex and her sister arranged for her mom and I to meet and discuss it at her sister’s. I told her mom that I was sorry for my words, but what she did put them in danger. She was not receptive. She just sat there, smoking a cigarette, and said “I don’t know if I’ll ever be ready to talk to you”. Eerily, it was like trying to resolve a conflict with my ex. She just stared off in the distance as I tried to reason with her. Total silence.

Was I triangulated here? Was my ex the victim, her mom the persecutor and me the rescuer? Then, did it get switched up to her mom being the victim, my ex being the rescuer and me becoming the persecutor? Why would she call me, crying frantically to come and save her, only to flip the script a few days later? Does her mom have this control over her, or does she need her mom as a resource as she is conveniently there to take the kids on weekends or to shack up with her when she ends up on her a**? It’s all pretty confusing. Any insight is appreciated.

[Cromwell]

i dont know the answer in so far as how the psychology behind it goes. but there is one key part missed from the triangle, and that was your as yet to be born son as the victim and the dynamics of that which would have influenced your decision making.

would you have reacted the same way if she wasnt pregnant?

was she using this as leverage?

from the experience I have, I have seen two instances of BPD and there is always this dysfunctional link to their parents. I believe that they pick up a lot of their conditioned responses from them, who are likely to be undiagnosed PDs of some variation aswell, if not BPD.

so it is of no surprise if your ex and her mum were equally playing each other off and using you as a rescuer.

It was hard enough for me to detach without throwing any children of mine into the equation. of course I would have went to rescue "her" on that basis she was pregnant with my child. I used to continually rescue her when she manufactured she was in danger in early hours of the morning, in reality just needed a lift back home. she gave off her trademark smirk when I would say "i know that you are only doing this to see if i care about you enough to actually come and get you".

lets just say you were the rescuer and we need to find the persecutor. when you are dealing with BPD are you ever able to ascribe them as wrong? is that even possible? not from my experience. logic doesnt apply, cant be applied.

you were in a no-win situation there thats for sure. you and your son are the only victims based on what i see. I didnt have children with my ex, I eventually just ignored her early hours "im stranded, need picked up or transfer me money" calls and she would straight away respond with emotional blackmail "oh its ok, ill just sleep in the bus shelter, ive done it before", then when that wouldnt work, 1 hour later "dont worry about me im safe home". (probably was sitting in some pub just ran out of money and decided to disrupt my sleep by creating some "chaos" scenario to syphon from me.

JNChell, you have this ability to trigger back so many memories of what i went through. its annoying. but in a healthy way .

[Skip]

It was a classic drama triangle. Your ex attempted to start a drama and you picked it up and ran with it. And yes, there was a second triangle, just as you described. You got that part correct.

The part that is not correct, is "was I triangulated". You were actually the catalyst in the triangle. This is the point of learning about them... .it could have stopped (or not stated) when she called you. You could have encouraged her and her mom to listen to each other and try to resolve the fight.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

Good reaction:

Be caring, but don't overstep. We do not want to let our fears, obligation and guilt to control us or allow us to be manipulated into taking care of another person when it really isn't healthy to do so. Instead of being the rescuer  and doing the thinking, taking the lead, doing more than our share, doing more than is asked of us -  simply be a supportive, empathetic listener and provide reflection, coaching, and assistance if the person asks and is taking the lead themselves. It is important to recognize the other person as an equal (not one-down) and give the other person the respect of letting them take care of themselves, solve their own problems, and deal with their feelings as they choose. Remember, the rescuer  has the most pivotal position on the drama triangle - you are in the strongest position, at least initially, to redirect the dynamic into healthy territory.

Unhealthy reaction:

The rescuer  is a classic enabler. The rescuer feels guilty if he/she doesn't rescue. Yet his/her rescuing has negative effects: it keeps the victim  dependent and gives the victim  permission to fail. It also keeps the rescuer stuck in focusing energy on someone else's problems, not solving his/her own. The rescuer's  line is "Let me help you."

[JNChell]

Hi there, Cromwell!

would you have reacted the same way if she wasnt pregnant?
Yes, I believe I would have. I felt an obligation to protect her and her daughter. I got a glimpse of how her mom is as a parent. This magnified my protectiveness of my ex. Empathy, sympathy and compassion.

was she using this as leverage?
It’s hard to say. I can’t really identify anything that she would’ve been leveraging at the time. If anything, I think it was more of a test. If that’s really the case, she was able to see how I’d react to her victim status. This is what my gut tells me.

from the experience I have, I have seen two instances of BPD and there is always this dysfunctional link to their parents. I believe that they pick up a lot of their conditioned responses from them, who are likely to be undiagnosed PDs of some variation aswell, if not BPD.
This stands out to me. My sister, who is a psychologist that specializes in children and PD’s, pegged her mom as disordered fairly quick. I understand that she didn’t treat and diagnose her, as does my sister, but she told me that my ex’s mom set off her “spidey” senses, so to speak, at our Son’s baby shower. From what I know about her mom’s past and parenting, she is likely very disordered. Interesting point you made here.

lets just say you were the rescuer and we need to find the persecutor. when you are dealing with BPD are you ever able to ascribe them as wrong? is that even possible? not from my experience. logic doesnt apply, cant be applied.
I completely hear you on this! She’s not able to easily admit fault or wrongdoing. She’s unable to apologize as well. Both things have to be elicited with undeniable facts. You can imagine how ugly that would get. It was exhausting and lead to suffering more abuse.

I do have to say that her D8 (5 at the time) was a victim in this as well. She had to witness the hostility between my ex and her mom, and was left stranded as well. I’m sorry if this was triggering for you, Cromwell. It never ceases to amaze me how similar many of the stories are on here. I greatly appreciate you joining the thread!

[JNChell]

It was a classic drama triangle. Your ex attempted to start a drama and you picked it up and ran with it. And yes, there was a second triangle, just as you described. You got that part correct.

The part that is not correct, is "was I triangulated". You were actually the catalyst in the triangle. This is the point of learning about them... .it could have stopped (or not stated) when she called you. You could have encouraged her and her mom to listen to each other and try to resolve the fight.

Thanks, Skip!
This is eye opening. In a way, I was viewing myself as a bit of a victim here, being after the fact.

The triangle can’t exist without the rescuer. Engaging in the action of a rescuer completes the triangle. If an attempt is made to engage, instead of engaging as a rescuer, we should engage as a mediator from outside of the drama. Is this close?

[Skip]

Yes.

Maybe we only talk to the person that came to us as victim.

What happened? What were you fighting about? Did she kick you out? Did you threaten to get out? You and you mom love D8. You will fight overt things things from time to time, but giving D8 a loving environment is really the most important thing. Why don't you call her and ask her if she will come get you? Or if you both want, I cam help out.