Help with parental alienation

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello,
I think I have finally found a place for healing and help.

Here is some background about me. I am recently divorced from someone who has emotionally abused me for 19 years. We have 2 daughters. A 17 year old who is nonBPD and a 14 year old who I think is BPD. After the divorce the nonBPD child lives with me and the undiagnosed child moved in with my ex.

I haven't seen or talked to my daughter that lives with my ex in a month. Meanwhile the child living with me sees my ex regularly. My undiagnosed daughter told me she doesn't want to see me because I hit her. This is a lie she punched me. I feel guilty because I feel better now that I haven't had contact with her in a month but I miss her and want her to get help. I'm not sure if I should let my lawyer know that my ex isn't following the parenting plan and doesn't want her in therapy.

[Sunnyrose]

Hello,
I think I have finally found a place for healing and help.

Here is some background about me. I am recently divorced from someone who has emotionally abused me for 19 years. We have 2 daughters. A 17 year old who is nonBPD and a 14 year old who I think is BPD. After the divorce the nonBPD child lives with me and the undiagnosed child moved in with my ex.

I haven't seen or talked to my daughter that lives with my ex in a month. Meanwhile the child living with me sees my ex regularly. My undiagnosed daughter told me she doesn't want to see me because I hit her. This is a lie she punched me. I feel guilty because I feel better now that I haven't had contact with her in a month but I miss her and want her to get help. I'm not sure if I should let my lawyer know that my ex isn't following the parenting plan and doesn't want her in therapy.

[Panda39]

We have 2 daughters. A 17 year old who is nonBPD and a 14 year old who I think is BPD. After the divorce the nonBPD child lives with me and the undiagnosed child moved in with my ex.

I haven't seen or talked to my daughter that lives with my ex in a month. Meanwhile the child living with me sees my ex regularly. My undiagnosed daughter told me she doesn't want to see me because I hit her. This is a lie she punched me. I feel guilty because I feel better now that I haven't had contact with her in a month but I miss her and want her to get help. I'm not sure if I should let my lawyer know that my ex isn't following the parenting plan and doesn't want her in therapy.

Hi Sunnyrose 

 

Welcome, I'm sorry you have been separated from your youngest for so long.  Of course you miss her even if she has BPD/BPD Traits she is still your daughter.  Why do you think she has BPD?  What kind of behaviors are you seeing? 

I used to think my Significant Other's (SO) daughters (10 & 14 when we met) might be BPD too... .but they like all of us learned behaviors from their parents so I have found as they have grown and matured that yes they have learned some things that could be dysfunctional D21 can be very passive aggressive, try and parent her younger sister (a role she played during her time with her mom when her parents were divorcing) for example and D17 can be very dramatic, struggles with boundaries and gravitates to other troubled kids (she wants to be a caretaker), but they are just behaviors not a full blown disorder. 

I agree with you if you are seeing troubling behaviors Therapy could really help (but if you are able to set that up be sure they have experience with BPD, particularly in having good boundaries around your ex).  My SO's daughters had a therapist early on that couldn't maintain boundaries with his ex.  Mom actually crashed one of the youngest's appointments and took it over. 

From what you've said here I'm not hearing Parental Alienation, is there more going on in terms of mom's behaviors?  It sounds like it's hard for your daughter to see you because she is ashamed of her behavior.  Blaming you is complete projection... .projecting her feelings about herself on to you. 

What does your current custody agreement look like?  You might reach out to your attorney and see what they think your options are. Particularly about getting your daughter into therapy.  Does her school have a therapist?  You might reach out to them about her too. 

What would you like to see happen?  It sounds like you are okay with her being at mom's (at 14 you might not be able to change this anyway.) but you want to see her (visitation) and would like to see her in therapy (I think this is a good idea).

I'd be interested to hear more of what you are seeing in terms of Parental Alienation.  My SO experienced his daughter's spying on him, going through is things and reading his texts and reporting back to his undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw), a stolen laptop in an attempt to hack into it, false allegations of abuse, refusals to see him or talk to him on the phone.

A good book on the topic is... .

Divorce Poison New and Updated Edition: How to Protect Your Family from Bad-mouthing and Brainwashing
by Dr. Richard A Warshak

There is also information on the internet from Parental Alienation expert Dr. Craig Childress

Below is a link from our site on Parental Alienation... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=104479.0

I'm glad you decided to jump in and join the group.  I hope to hear more of your story.

Panda39

[ForeverDad]

I'm not sure if I should let my lawyer know that my ex isn't following the parenting plan and doesn't want her in therapy.

That doesn't sound like a good plan.  If your lawyer is uninformed on various things, how can he or she determine what to fight for in your case?  It's like holding onto arrows rather than handing them over to Robin Hood... .

[Sunnyrose]

I think a bit more background information is needed.

I took my D14 to therapy when she was 2 years old because she have tantrums that resulted in her bitting me and herself. They were extremely long in length and intensity. If she had one in public people would stop to make sure she wasn't being harmed. The T said she had attachment issues and sensory processing disorder. We worked with the T on her attachment and I took her to occupational therapy which helped decrease the intensity.

When D14 was 7 she started having panic attacks. She refused to go to school or if she was at school she would hide in the bathroom. At this point OT had wrapped up. So we went back to therapy and a psychologist gave her a diagnosis of anxiety disorder. She was put on a very low dose of Zoloft. D14 responded well and her panic attacks stopped. She still was afraid of things (deer, being alone, night) but no panic attacks.

By 12 D14 was having trouble keeping friends. She had gone through three groups of friends and she started to show some paranoia. She would come home and tell me her sister and her friends were making fun of her or random people were talking about her. If she didn't get an A on a test she would beg me to talk to the teacher to fix it. When I didn't she would yell at me and say that the grade wasn't fair and the teacher was out to get her. D14 doesn't take responsibility. If she hit her sister and was told to apologize D14 would say "why I didn't hurt her."

At 12 1/2 she decided she didn't need therapy or medication and stopped going and stopped taking medication. This was against my wishes and the therapist but with her father's permission. Things started to get worse. We could only go to movies or restaurants she wanted or she would have a tantrum. My exh would do anything to stop her. At home she would complain about what I made for dinner until her dad would make her something else.

D14 spent some time in the hospital for a ruptured appendix. She only allowed me to be near her at that time. After the hospital she stopped eating meat, dairy, and vegetables. She lost 20 pounds in 2 months which she couldn't afford. She lost her period for 9 months. I also noticed her pinching herself. I took her to the doctor who recommended a nutritionist. She refused to follow the food plan and became irrational about eating. She was then diagnosed with an unspecified eating disorder and malnutrition. My exh told the doctor she was wrong, I was not giving the doctor correct information and let D14 eat pasta and nuts as her only foods.

Her moods were volatile before, now they made D17 and I run and hide. She would follow, pick the lock and start screaming at me. My exh said it was my fault because I would antagonize her. If I tried to take her to the doctor or even the dentist she would yell at me. She told me I was telling lies to everyone especially the doctors.

I wanted to take a trip to Disney with the family on my scheduled week off. D14 became hysterical and started pinching herself. She didn't want to go because she would miss a softball game. Her dad tried to get me to change my schedule so S14 wouldn't miss the game. My schedule had been set in January for the whole year. Needless to say we didn't go.

I had had enough of the marriage and asked for a divorce. He moved out and she treated me worse. Finally in November of last year she moved in with him. D14 couldn't believe D17 wanted to live with me. She was very angry D17 didn't move with her. At Christmas she refused to see me but started texting and calling me in a rage. After about 28 texts in a half hour I turned off my phone. She says I am trying to control  and ruin her life and talks about things in the past that never happened.

In January she ran away from my house twice going back to her dad's during my visitation. He refused to bring her back. One of those times I asked her to go to the store with me and when she refused (she is 14 now) I left her at home for 20 minutes. D14 was gone when I got back, she says I abandoned her. My exh told me I didn't want to spend time with D14.

I saw her when she locked herself out of her house and wanted D17 to bring her key. It was very cold and the door was frozen. I offered to take to my house to warm up. She screamed about how it wasn't my scheduled time and to get off her property. She even refused a blanket.

D14 is terrified to walk 2 blocks home from school alone. She says it isn't safe. This is the same neighborhood she has grown up in. My exh bought a house 2 streets over in my neighborhood. He switched D14 school and all of her doctors and her dentist. D14 picked all the furniture and does the cooking.

The day she punched me D14 wanted to go to her cousin's birthday party on exh side. Exh told her she had to come to my house because it was my visitation day. Nobody said anything to D17 or me. D14 was bored, she is always bored, and wanted her dad to pick her up. He refused. I offered to do something with her, take her to the party, or take her back to her dad's house. D14 didn't want to do any of that, especially go to her dad's because she would be alone. Then she started to rage at me. Next thing she is punching me, then called her dad to come get her. He did. She told him I hit her and that's what he thinks happened. I told exh that D14 and I need therapy to work on our relationship. Exh says therapy doesn't work for them.

D14 refuses to come over even to see her out of town grandparents. She has completely cut my family off "because of my lies" and won't talk to me at all.

The parental plan says both kids are here on every other weekend Saturday at noon to Sunday at 6. On Tuesday we switch kids from 6 to 8. If a child has a problem with a parent we need to work together to solve it including therapy. Exh won't do this. If the child still won't see the parent the court needs to evaluate the situation. I'm afraid that forcing D14 to come over is dangerous to me and D17. I am also unsure forcing D14 into therapy would be helpful. You have to work at it for it to help and D14 refuses to go.

Sorry this is so long. I love my D14 and I want her to be happy and healthy. I am afraid that the longer D14 refuses to come over the harder it will be to repair our relationship.

Right now I am trying to heal myself. I don't have the strength or skills to deal with D14 right now. Even when she did come over it would take me 2 days to recover. D17 is only seeing her sister twice a month and is just starting to smile again.

[kells76]

Hey Sunnyrose, I want to join panda39 to welcome you here. So sorry to hear about the long, hard road you and your family have been on. It sounds like you have been through so much and it still feels like there's more to come.

I want to preface what I'm going to suggest by saying that I'm here as a stepmom -- my husband has two kids with his ex. When we first got together many moons ago, I was totally confused by the kids' mom's behavior. Long story and many google searches later I found this site and so many pieces fell into place. But -- she is NOT diagnosed. She just exhibits a particular combination of difficult behaviors, many of which happen to be in the list of 9 BPD criteria.

So, this site has a board for "Son or daughter with BPD". Like panda39 mentioned, kids may or may not actually have a PD -- they may be acting out behaviors learned from a parent. That being said, diagnosis or no, certain behaviors are really tough in a child. So, please know that you can also get support from the "Son or daughter... ." board even if a kid doesn't have a formal diagnosis.

And of course, your original question about telling your lawyer about ex's non-compliance with the PP has a good home here. I know $ are always a consideration when working with lawyers, but do you see any (other) downside to keeping your lawyer updated on the non-compliance?

Hang in there -- this site and these boards are a good place to be supported.

[livednlearned]

Hi SunnyRose,

Welcome and hello  

Having a BPD daughter (a teen no less) and a BPD ex is a double whammy. The emotional incest between parent and child when both have BPD can be alarming. My SO has a BPD daughter (20) and BPD ex wife, and it can feel pretty helpless to be a bystander.

It looks like you've posted over on the Parenting board  

Some of the books I've found particularly helpful are Loving Someone with BPD by Shari Manning and Overcoming BPD by Valerie Porr. They help explain BPD in a compassionate way, and both have helpful skills that you can try out with your D14, including validation and SET (support, empathy, truth) for when she may be endangering herself.

As hard as it may be to not see her right now, some separation between you could be the best medicine. It takes a lot of strength to not be emotionally injured by someone who is BPD, and you need to shore up that strength and set limits. Punching you signals that she is out of control, which creates shame, and that fuels the cycle. She needs someone who will consistently and lovingly set limits so that she can center herself. Since interpersonal and meaningful relationships tend to carry with them the most intense emotions, she may need some distance just to return to baseline.

It's a hard line to walk --  not taking things personally and setting limits while being deeply empathetic to how your loved one feels.

Another couple of books if you're a reader are BPD in Adolescence by Blaise Aguirre -- he has some YouTube talks, too. And I found the book Self Reg by Dr. Shanker to be helpful. It's not about BPD per se, but it does help explain where some of the fury might come from when a child is overly stimulated and dealing with sensory processing issues. And last, I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better by the Lundstroms, who have a wonderful section on how to ask validating questions. This minimizes the emotional loneliness people feel while putting responsibility for solving their own problems back on them where it belongs. It's my favorite skill because it's simple and best used to ward off potential explosions.

Shore up strength and gather your bearings. There is a way forward that is safe for you, and it requires self-care and strength.

My SO's then D16 ended up having a psychotic episode that was scary for everyone, but the upside is that it got her the treatment she desperately needed. Her BPD mom got out of her way long enough to get D16 into the hands of professionals. It's not the way anyone wanted things to go (waiting for it to get extreme), but that's the best that could happen under the circumstances.

In the meantime, are you open to therapy? Setting limits on a loved one who is abusive takes some ninja level skills. Even more so when it's a child. You deserve to feel safe in your own home, and surprisingly, when you take care of yourself, your BPD loved one may start to find some stability, too. Having no boundaries is a scary feeling, and she needs others to set limits because she struggles to do so on her own.

LnL

[Sunnyrose]

Thank you everyone for your support and suggestions. I have contacted my L about not seeing my D14. I haven't heard back yet. I also made an appointment with a T for this week. I've checked out some of the books that are recommended. Lots of great information that will require rereading. I can see I have a lot of work to do on myself.

[ForeverDad]

Many counselors or therapists are reluctant to diagnose a minor (child or teen) with a PD.  For one thing, as we've speculated here sometimes, it could be 'fleas" she's picked up for the dysfunctional people she's lived with.  Or maybe she could have many traits now but will over time get a better handle on the as she matures.  Yes, she's a handful now but... .Time will tell.  Whether she is or isn't, this site along with other resources are excellent to educate you on a variety of skills so you can make more informed and more confident decisions.

[Sunnyrose]

The therapist is for me.