Doin' it for the kids... but struggling with my attitude

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

SD12 was unexpectedly clingy with me and to some extent DH. She said she felt "strange". I asked her what felt strange and she said seeing all the photos up together. I said maybe it was different from seeing them at Mom's house and she said yes. I asked if she needed to be close to somebody right now or not, and she said she would be OK. I let her and DH know I was going to go take care of myself by taking a walk and I'd be back in 5 minutes.

I think my mistake was then to ask if she wanted to come along too -- looking back, I think she is so sensitive to when adults are even slightly distressed that she takes those "open-ended" offers as something she needs to do to "take care of" adults. So, I wish I hadn't done that.

I think you did a great job! You asked her a validating question, "What felt strange?" and then you modeled taking care of yourself. You gave her a choice. If she felt strange looking at the photos, my guess is she wanted to be included in whatever "taking care of yourself" meant.

I would also guess that given her feelings (e.g. felt strange), she was more focused on her own feeling state than yours. Maybe she jumped in and out of feeling awkward/not knowing what to do or feel. You gave her an example of what you can do.

My uBPD SD21 has the qualities you describe, of being a caretaker. It seems like a pretty reliable guess to think that these kids will develop some degree of codependent traits. 

What a wacky event! My ex wrote a song about me that I've never heard, and he threatened to write a book and EXPOSE ALL.

But your DH's ex's event takes the cake 

[livednlearned]

SD12 was unexpectedly clingy with me and to some extent DH. She said she felt "strange". I asked her what felt strange and she said seeing all the photos up together. I said maybe it was different from seeing them at Mom's house and she said yes. I asked if she needed to be close to somebody right now or not, and she said she would be OK. I let her and DH know I was going to go take care of myself by taking a walk and I'd be back in 5 minutes.

I think my mistake was then to ask if she wanted to come along too -- looking back, I think she is so sensitive to when adults are even slightly distressed that she takes those "open-ended" offers as something she needs to do to "take care of" adults. So, I wish I hadn't done that.

I think you did a great job! You asked her a validating question, "What felt strange?" and then you modeled taking care of yourself. You gave her a choice. If she felt strange looking at the photos, my guess is she wanted to be included in whatever "taking care of yourself" meant.

I would also guess that given her feelings (e.g. felt strange), she was more focused on her own feeling state than yours. Maybe she jumped in and out of feeling awkward/not knowing what to do or feel. You gave her an example of what you can do.

My uBPD SD21 has the qualities you describe, of being a caretaker. It seems like a pretty reliable guess to think that these kids will develop some degree of codependent traits. 

What a wacky event! My ex wrote a song about me that I've never heard, and he threatened to write a book and EXPOSE ALL.

But your DH's ex's event takes the cake 

[kells76]

Maybe she jumped in and out of feeling awkward/not knowing what to do or feel.

That seems plausible. Usually in emotionally/socially ambiguous settings, if Stepdad (especially) is there, or, if not, if Mom is there, then SD12 immediately gravitates to him/her. Both Stepdad and Mom were there at the event but I didn't see her zoom over to them like usual.

But that's also why part of me is thinking she was caretaking. I guess I'm struggling with the reality that I can try my best to do what's healthy for the kids (modeling self-care, describing my emotions, etc) but at this point SD12 will respond with caretaking behaviors.

The flip side of that, of course, is that I don't want to go down the road of "crafting" my behaviors and actions in order to "get a healthy response" from SD12. That's manipulative. It leaves me in the uncomfortable position, though, of having to face the fact that she might respond in an unhealthy way even to my best efforts at modeling good behavior.

-------

And nobody wants to know who was in the naked pic? Looking back, it should've been obvious... . 

[DreamGirl]

All I keep thinking to myself is "nope, nope, nope,".

My husband would have started out the conversation with "You're not going to believe this... ." and would know better then to ask me to go. Because I wouldn't.

I don't like the girls' mom's take on my husband and that anger you're feeling? It's why I wouldn't go.

I get being there for the kids.

If you have it all under control and you can handle those feelings? Good for you. Seriously, that's some super level of namaste.

For me? I'm not going to sacrafice my mental health for anybody else's children. I have a hard enough time keeping it together.

And it has taken me two therapists and an almost divorce to come to that conclusion. He married her. He procreated with her. I understand what that entails and I will to the best of my ability support him and the girls. That does not involve attending any function that makes me uncomfortable or leaves me reeling.

Hardest boundary I ever had to set.  

[GaGrl]

All I keep thinking to myself is "nope, nope, nope,".

My husband would have started out the conversation with "You're not going to believe this... ." and would know better then to ask me to go. Because I wouldn't.

I don't like the girls' mom's take on my husband and that anger you're feeling? It's why I wouldn't go.

I get being there for the kids.

If you have it all under control and you can handle those feelings? Good for you. Seriously, that's some super level of namaste.

For me? I'm not going to sacrafice my mental health for anybody else's children. I have a hard enough time keeping it together.

And it has taken me two therapists and an almost divorce to come to that conclusion. He married her. He procreated with her. I understand what that entails and I will to the best of my ability support him and the girls. That does not involve attending any function that makes me uncomfortable or leaves me reeling.

Hardest boundary I ever had to set.  

That's exactly where I landed.

[NorthernGirl]

And nobody wants to know who was in the naked pic? Looking back, it should've been obvious... . 

Ok kells76, I will bite - who was in the naked pic? Stepdad?

I have been reading this thread to remind myself I have some work to do. So lovely to ‘see’ DreamGirl drop in, and all you other wise souls.

I try to convince myself my step kids are old enough now I don’t need the support on the board, but of course I am just in denial. SS23 has special needs and may forever act as a teenager. SS26 has been diagnosed BPD. Also an addict in denial. SS28 is getting married next year, and we don’t know if he will invite his mom. We figure uBPDx is currently planning her next legal battle. I have lots of boundary work ahead of me!

Reading this thread brought up a few issues. Not the least of which is, why is heavens name do we stepmoms do what we do? You were a trooper kells76. Also, why do T’s think it is not ok for a stepmom to choose not to engage in this madness?

I would like to think I would have declined the invite, but I dutifully showed up at lots of events where Mom had everyone dancing on eggshells. For the sake of the kids or DH, I told myself. But shoul I have just said no?  Sure, the kids saw that I was there but to be honest, the oldest will remember me helping with the aftergrad party at DH’s house more than he’ll remember me sitting at the rubber chicken dinner and having to change seats with uBPDx before dessert. I could have been more selective.

I’m not sure the kids need us to model the behaviours by showing up, or by turning the events we don’t want to attend. Or maybe now I would just hear DG in my head and say no.

[Panda39]

I’m not sure the kids need us to model the behaviours by showing up, or by turning down the events we don’t want to attend.

I will not be attending my SO's D17 High School Graduation next year and she knows this (I did not attend her sister's either).  Their mom will be there and I want the day to be about D17 not tension between her mom and I, and the day will also mean more to her mom than me.  Graduation is streamed on-line so I can watch from home and I will be going out to celebrate for dinner that night.  D17 knows this is my choice and it isn't about her.

I like the others here have mentioned will also opt out when I think my presence will be disruptive or the event won't be fun, or I'm uncomfortable with the situation and other events I'm all in!

Panda39

[kells76]

It's nice to hear from you DreamGirl 

You and Gagrl make a fair point which I know comes from decades of dealing with the kids' moms -- that at the end of the day, if you think you're going above and beyond for the kids but you lose your well-being, a healthy relationship with your spouse, and a sense of boundaries in the process, then what was it all for? You're showing the kids that "being there for people" means... .poor well-being, unhealthy relationships, and low boundaries.

I'm definitely struggling with that side of this whole situation, especially after seeing SD12 in caretaker/appeaser mode. Would it have been better for her if DH and I didn't go at all, and in that sense didn't enable her caretaking? Would it have been better for the kids to see us say No to Mom? Maybe so.

I get being there for the kids... .If you have it all under control and you can handle those feelings?

I don't think I will ever have it all under control  but doing some pre-work here on the boards did help. Coming up with a plan ahead of time to leave after a few minutes took the intensity down, as did skipping/missing the lecture. But... .

Another side of this situation that I need to do some work on is "minimizing". I think a lot of you can relate to this -- that the bad years were so bad and so intense that it has really thrown my sense of what is a stressful situation. Like, "Hey, Mom has an art show using photos of Dad and Stepdad with her poetry written on it, but at least the kids aren't running away and saying we're not their family!"

Have I lost a sense of what is or should be stressful or intense or appropriate? Or -- and this definitely happens in other areas of my life -- maybe I'm minimizing how I felt about the show because if I were honest, I'm afraid that the feelings might be too much for me?

And likely a discussion with the kids' counselor coming up. It might be good for me to start asking questions about what does it really look like for me to upend the narrative by having more of a role in the girls' lives. Does it mean physically being at events? Does it mean modeling being assertive about what I want to do? Does it mean letting them see me say No to Mom?

STILL a lot to process.

[kells76]

Ok kells76, I will bite - who was in the naked pic? Stepdad?

Mom, in the fetal position

[DreamGirl]

I think it all just depends... .

I used to not go to any event that involved the girls' mom. That was after a long period where I made sure I was present so that everyone knew how supportive I was. Her. The kids. My husband. My ego.

It was a cross between my trying to do what was right. My trying to be a presence. My trying to prove to her that I got to go where I want, when I want, how I want.

It just was all so convoluted.

The pivotal moment was when my SD ended up in tears at a softball banquet. Her trophy had MY maiden name (it was before we were married) because they assumed she was MY daughter because her mom REFUSED to go to her softball games if I was there. So I ended up taking her to all of them. Those blue eyes looking at me feeling bad that she was crying even though I supported her... .but just wanting her mama. It killed me.

So it's where you find the proverbial "high road". But I don't even see it that way anymore. It's just the road that makes sense to me. I don't want to be the reason mom doesn't show up. I don't want to be the strong woman in their life who makes them better people. I don't want to be their soft place to land when mom's too selfish to see past her own needs. I just want to be my husband's wife. I just want to grow old with him and give him advice when he can't quite figure something out.

I'll fight with everything that I am to make sure that my husband got to be their dad. But not me... .I couldn't do it. Their mom, to this day, does not fight fair. She re-writes history. She believes her truth. Just narrating these sentences inflicts the beginning stages of a deep rooted anxiety. I don't need to deal with her. Ever. My husband is more than capable and equipped with every communication skill possible. My job is to help HIM stay calm, cool, and collected. As a dad and as an ex-husband. 90% of that involves me telling him to go to bed and get some sleep and deal with it with a clearer head.

But that's me. That's my healthy place.

And every once in a while I get a super cool text from the grown girls (19 and 21) when something significant happens. Or the oldest calls to tell me that she needs help in remaining rational in a situation and knows I can help her.

And from what I hear they call their mom all the time and remain in a parenting role for her. Just like the did when they were little.

It is what it is. They're OK. We did the best we could and their mom did the best she could.

We're all as happy as our own mental health allows.

So I guess that's my long drawn out point. You get to decide. I've dealt with so many stepmoms over the years who get so caught up in wanting to do what's best for everyone else around them. Trying to define their role as a stepmom that they lose sight of their marriage. Lose sight of themselves. And that is difficult to reign in once everyone grows comfortable in the stepmom's self-sacrifice. Putting your own needs aside to insure everyone else's happiness and healthiness can not sustain itself for very long. Resentment will rear it's ugly head - especially when no one is thanking you for all that you do.

I'd get a pedicure and a glass of wine during a stupid art show that involved my husband's ex-wife. I never would be in a place that celebrated her because I don't want to celebrate her. My value is that I try to be genuine in my life and that goes against that value so much. 

And to me, I'm not sure what better example can be set then having healthy boundaries.  

[kells76]

I just want to make it clear through all this wackiness that I'm not trying to mock the kids' mom. I mean, I think I do need to process how weird all this stuff was, but at the same time, it's sad that she is in a place where she thinks that doing this kind of "art show" is a good idea (naked picture, photocopied journal entries, etc). That would not be a peaceful headspace to live in. So I will try to balance calling out the reality of what's unhealthy and bizarre with some compassion for how ultimately unhappy she must be inside.

[livednlearned]

the bad years were so bad and so intense that it has really thrown my sense of what is a stressful situation.

It's a good point kells76. When you get used to crisis, you can get in a chronic defensive crouch.

Have I lost a sense of what is or should be stressful or intense or appropriate?

You seemed clear here about this being a stressful situation.  

Do you think SD12's counselor's comments to you influenced your choice whether to attend or not?  

Or -- and this definitely happens in other areas of my life -- maybe I'm minimizing how I felt about the show because if I were honest, I'm afraid that the feelings might be too much for me?

Do you mean that if you openly expressed to other people (your DH, the counselor, friends) how much you didn't want to go, or do you mean experiencing these feelings, fully, to yourself.

And likely a discussion with the kids' counselor coming up. It might be good for me to start asking questions about what does it really look like for me to upend the narrative by having more of a role in the girls' lives. Does it mean physically being at events? Does it mean modeling being assertive about what I want to do? Does it mean letting them see me say No to Mom?

I'm wondering if the kids' counselor can answer that for you? I mean, I know she can answer with what she believes is best for the girls. But she can only guess to what lengths you're comfortable going if she doesn't know your limits. If you're trying to figure out what they are, then that's probably more important than figuring out what the girls need, at least for the time being.

Maybe this is your watershed moment where you focus on what it feels like to create pockets of calm and stress free experiences so that you recognize them. It's much easier to slip in and out of those moments and make good choices for yourself if you are fluent in reading your mood state when it comes to showing up for other people.

If you're a class-act people please, then doing this will likely feel super selfish at first. I had to retrain myself to experience selfishness as something positive and trust that the discomfort would wear off.

And it did.

It takes practice and a lot of atta girls  

[DreamGirl]

I just want to make it clear through all this wackiness that I'm not trying to mock the kids' mom. I mean, I think I do need to process how weird all this stuff was, but at the same time, it's sad that she is in a place where she thinks that doing this kind of "art show" is a good idea (naked picture, photocopied journal entries, etc). That would not be a peaceful headspace to live in. So I will try to balance calling out the reality of what's unhealthy and bizarre with some compassion for how ultimately unhappy she must be inside.

I think that's a perfect way to view the situation. That is my mantra when I'm feeling really frustrated... ."It must be really hard being her."

Because it is.

And it's okay to think that this whole sceanrio of displaying her "art" and then inviting your husband and the children is weird.

Because it is.  

[kells76]

Thank you guys for all the feedback on this prize-winningly weird situation. It's funny, it's been both not a big deal (i.e. compared to a lot of the other crises in the past), and, as LnL suggested, kind of a watershed moment.

I've had to sit with the fact that maybe I didn't make the "Right" decision. Maybe it would have been better not to go, or to talk more with the kids about it, or X, or Y, or Z.

But maybe it's even more important for the kids to see me sitting with the fact that I did the best I could and it was kind of uncomfortable and not perfect, and that what's real is that sometimes it's really hard to figure out what to do.

The feedback from panda39 and DreamGirl helped me remember that there's always that third option of stepping out of the drama entirely. Maybe that's not what I did here, but I could do that in the future. And if I'm doing it from a place of genuinely wanting what's good for the kids, then even if (for some reason) disengaging/not showing up is a "mistake", then the kids get to see me struggle, and take responsibility for my choices, and not be perfect. Hopefully that helps them know they can struggle too.

After talking about this whole art show with our C and the kids' C, the sense I'm getting is that this is just Mom being Mom. She is just going to be all about her. DH and I can make it a huge deal, and be dramatic, and freak out about it, or we can set some boundaries, learn from it, and -- if we want to -- try something different the next time she has an All About My Drama exhibition.

That's not to say that I didn't really feel the way I felt -- pretty stressed out and not wanting to be there. So in that sense it was a big deal. But maybe we can have Big Deal watershed moments about events in life that don't need to be made a Big Deal out of, if that makes sense.

Anyway, there's been a lot to process. What I'm trying to take away from this and practice is being honest with myself and others about what I really want. And I hope people reading this thread can find that helpful.

I had to retrain myself to experience selfishness as something positive and trust that the discomfort would wear off.

This part is tricky but I'm starting with little things. It's kind of like, Wow, how have I not been doing this all my life? (I mean, I know why, but that's probably a story for the Coping & Healing board  )

Thanks again. I'll keep you guys posted if anything else shakes out from this... .uh... .exhibition