Personal Growth Guilt Trips

[Anamika]

Why is it that anything my kids do for personal growth is automatically a huge problem for my UexBPDw?  The kids do not even want to tell her anything because she will give them a guilt trip about how she wasn't involved or it makes her sad.  Example, my daughters went to spring break with a family friend in California.  They spent 7 days on the beach and shopping.  If they sent their mum a photo of anything it was responded with "well that looks like fun, I wish I could go but I have to work two jobs to pay my bills".  This isn't just about a trip either.  They get the poor me guilt trip for even wanting to apply for colleges out of state or wanting to start a new extracurricular activity.  Activities are even worse because she will put her fears on the kids or say that they can't do it because she doesn't think they physically can and it's a lot of work. Why tear them down? They want to try skiing, let's do it! They want to run a marathon, let's do it!  Let them find their place and passions in life don't put your fears on them because you can't get out of your own head.   

[Panda39]

Hi Anamika,

Fear of Abandonment is at the heart of BPD.  As your children grow, mature and become more and more independent that fear will be triggered.  Once triggered then the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) starts to flow.

People with BPD are ruled by their emotions so her fear around activities like skiing gets triggered.  You're right that the fear becomes elevated and irrational.  How do your kids handle stuff like this?  Do they ignore it?  Take it as a challenge? or Fall into the fear?

Unfortunately, you can't control your ex (she can't even control herself emotionally) but you can set a different example for your kids, listen to them and validate their feelings about the situation, and take them skiing! 

Hang in there I know how frustrating all this is.   

Panda39

[Anamika]

Hi Panda39

They live with me full time so when she starts on a texting spree they just ignore her.  Then she will call and they will be very short with her because they are annoyed.  Then I get text messages that they are being mean.  Yes you read that correctly.  She says they are mean to her like she is a teenage girl.  Then it's all my fault because everything in her life is my fault even though she left us and had a secret lover.  Which is weird because my T told me "just because she had a secret lover doesn't mean she wanted the marriage to end".  That one left me scratching my head.  Anyway back to the kids, they choose what they tell her now carefully.  If they know it's going to provoke an emotion they will wait until they are at the T with mum.  Obviously when the ex is there she has to be on her best behavior so they drop hard topics there and then leave. 

FOG is a new term for me.  Thank you, I need to go research this. 

[livednlearned]

Why is it that anything my kids do for personal growth is automatically a huge problem for my UexBPDw?  The kids do not even want to tell her anything because she will give them a guilt trip about how she wasn't involved or it makes her sad... .Activities are even worse because she will put her fears on the kids or say that they can't do it because she doesn't think they physically can and it's a lot of work. Why tear them down?

Panda39 makes a good point about the fear of abandonment at the core of BPD.

Fear of abandonment is fueled by a really weak sense of self. Without a strong sense of self, it can feel empty and lonely to a degree that's hard to comprehend when you have a self and aren't afraid to be alone in the world.

When people act in ways that differ than how the BPD sufferer feels, that can feel like abandonment. Some psychologists refer to it as an abandonment of self.

When others feel and behave in ways that are similar to how the BPD sufferer feels, that is a very poor way to affirm her sense of self. She would rather feel bad and similar than bad and alone, if that makes sense.

You abandon her by having a different experience than she is having, so to speak.

When SO's BPDx sees her kids try to succeed at something, she will put them down and say they are acting just like their father (my SO).

[Panda39]

They live with me full time so when she starts on a texting spree they just ignore her.  Then she will call and they will be very short with her because they are annoyed.  Then I get text messages that they are being mean.  Yes you read that correctly.  She says they are mean to her like she is a teenage girl.

I, totally believe you I have 2 step daughters that live with their dad full time and have an uBPDmom.  The immaturity and drama are real  

Link to more on FOG... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

Anyway back to the kids, they choose what they tell her now carefully.  If they know it's going to provoke an emotion they will wait until they are at the T with mum.  Obviously when the ex is there she has to be on her best behavior so they drop hard topics there and then leave.  

What is really good here is that you are clearly trusted by your kids and that you have them in Therapy.  That will help them with coping tools, a neutral party to listen, and someone who can help them negotiate their mother.  It sounds like they are also able to identify some of the things that trigger their mother.

Do you see your kids creating boundaries in terms of their mom?  That could be helpful.  My significant other's (SO's) younger daughter is low contact with her mom, she has phone/text contact because she needs that distance from her mom.  She will occasionally see her mom for lunch or coffee but always in a public place (so like your wife at the therapist she is on her best behavior).

Then it's all my fault because everything in her life is my fault even though she left us and had a secret lover.  Which is weird because my T told me "just because she had a secret lover doesn't mean she wanted the marriage to end".  That one left me scratching my head.  

I can actually understand this.  People with BPD run completely on emotions... .emotions of the moment.  Each person seems to have their own brand of BPD (combination of symptoms/behaviors), some cheat and others like my SO's undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw) have problems/self sooth with money, for others it's drugs and alcohol.  So her secret lover makes her feel good in the moment but she still wants to be wife and mother.  My SO's ex felt good spending the family's rent/grocery money on things... .it made her feel good but she still wanted the rent paid for and the groceries bought. No thought at all about consequences... .that would be logical... .there is no logical only emotional.

Have you done much reading on BPD?  That was the first thing I did when I discovered it... .went straight to the library.  It was really helpful to get a basic understanding of BPD.

A couple of good books on BPD... .

Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder by Randi Kreger  

and

Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder: A Family Guide for Healing and Change by Valerie Porr M. A.,

and one specifically on Borderline Mothers... .Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship by Christine Ann Lawson

Take Care,
Panda39

[ForeverDad]

While I've not investigated much how Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT) works, my understanding is that part of it is the person stopping and reviewing the incident and the typical impulse to (over)react.  Mindfulness (Wise Mind) is the word.  Of course, their mother may never apply practical techniques but maybe an attempt could be made to blend that into the girls' sessions with their mother.  They could share their news in the session but the T could muse that it had been a few days, ask the girls why the delay and then (try to) help mother to become aware how her reactions hinder the free flow of shared news?  For all I know that's already been tried, but if not then it couldn't make things worse to attempt.

Do the girls have a code word established with mother when they want her to stop and ponder?  Maybe it wouldn't work but then again if they have a silly trigger word to help her to slow down and think... .

This always reminds me of the old movie, The Over-the-Hill Gang {Rides Again}, an old cowboy comedy with lovable irrascible actors Walter Brennan, Jack Elam, Fred Astaire (his only cowboy movie?).  As I recall, the members had grown old and moved on and had a code word Brazzles! that was a signal calling for help to the other members of the old gang.  It's been many years since I watched these movies, I hope I haven't confused the Brazzles! phrase with The Apple Dumpling Gang {Rides Again} (Don Knotts & Tim Conway).

Film trivia:  The 1980s remake Once Upon a Texas Train morphed Jack Elam, a great character actor, from bad guy to one of the good guys.

A funny code word may not get through and deflect/deflate a rage but may be worth a try, you'd have to set it up beforehand during a calmer interaction.

[Nope]

My DH deals with his uBPDex doing this to the kids. It's all actually the very same scenario. The hardest part for him is being the target for blame that she and the kids don't have as close a relationship as she would like. They have their own interests -> she feels abandoned and rejected because of this -> she tries to make them feel bad or make things awkward regarding those interests -> they pull away from her and share less with her -> she feels even more abandoned = DH isn't supporting her relationship with the kids and is turning them against her.

My DH hates being accused of this. It's the only FOG that still works on him. In your case it seems like the kids are pretty aware of their mom's limitations and have developed strategies that work for them. They are certainly doing better than my two, who just outright play the avoidance game unless they absolutely can't. Do you feel in some way dragged into the conflict between your ex and kids?