Kids visit without bringing things...

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Hi,

Does anyone else relate to kids showing up to visit without having anything (seasonal) clothing or appropriate on... .ever... .

My SD15 showed up without anything for the weekend.   I asked her to bring stuff with her from her mom's (I texted her before she came over saying she'll have to bring over some clothes for outside now that's it's warmer and remember that she goes biking and activities with her dad... .like hinting for runners, sportswear type stuff, maybe a windbreaker)

She still brings her winter coat and boots (it's now sunny and  20º C) and all I can see is a pair of cut offs and a tank top... .stuff I recognize from last summer, which are too small for her.  Nothing new, and I mean no-thing.  In fact any socks she wears are never matched or they look like they've been worn outside... You get my drift.  So the outfit is cutoffs and boots.    She has the attitude that 'she has stuff here' and this 'oh well' which is why I texted her to begin with (btw if you think you  have stuff here, you don't)... .

Up until now clothes are  separate, each household provides their own without sharing but now that the kids are older (teens) I feel that they are old enough to bring a bag with them from their mom's house that they can take back and forth  (that's my hope anyway).    This is with the assumption that their mom (pwBPD) is providing for them.  (nope).    I want to say here that their mom can easily afford to buy them whatever they need. 

My husband pays her a generous amount in monthly child support yet we see nothing (going on since the beginning) goes towards them, especially their clothing.   I'm firm against that we should have to take her out shopping just for a pair of runners to wear over here because frankly, he forks out enough which is what child support means.  We've been providing for them over here  for years and my SD will often wear over to  her mom's anything she wants to especially during the summer visits back and forth but she knows that she's responsible to bring it back over here, hence the responsibility now for her to govern a suitcase.   BTW, we could not share ANYTHING with their mother when they were little, she would take stuff and it would go missing from our house (especially coats), not returned with kids or purposefully damaged or the stuff she'd have them wear from her place was too small, unwashed, and completely substandard to what we provide them. 

Can anyone suggest their experience or some input.   When I went to say something to husband, he just sighed and dismissed me kind of thing. 

We can't communicate (won't) with their mother.  Period.  It's pointless, trust me on that one. 

[Klera]

Hi,

Does anyone else relate to kids showing up to visit without having anything (seasonal) clothing or appropriate on... .ever... .

My SD15 showed up without anything for the weekend.   I asked her to bring stuff with her from her mom's (I texted her before she came over saying she'll have to bring over some clothes for outside now that's it's warmer and remember that she goes biking and activities with her dad... .like hinting for runners, sportswear type stuff, maybe a windbreaker)

She still brings her winter coat and boots (it's now sunny and  20º C) and all I can see is a pair of cut offs and a tank top... .stuff I recognize from last summer, which are too small for her.  Nothing new, and I mean no-thing.  In fact any socks she wears are never matched or they look like they've been worn outside... You get my drift.  So the outfit is cutoffs and boots.    She has the attitude that 'she has stuff here' and this 'oh well' which is why I texted her to begin with (btw if you think you  have stuff here, you don't)... .

Up until now clothes are  separate, each household provides their own without sharing but now that the kids are older (teens) I feel that they are old enough to bring a bag with them from their mom's house that they can take back and forth  (that's my hope anyway).    This is with the assumption that their mom (pwBPD) is providing for them.  (nope).    I want to say here that their mom can easily afford to buy them whatever they need. 

My husband pays her a generous amount in monthly child support yet we see nothing (going on since the beginning) goes towards them, especially their clothing.   I'm firm against that we should have to take her out shopping just for a pair of runners to wear over here because frankly, he forks out enough which is what child support means.  We've been providing for them over here  for years and my SD will often wear over to  her mom's anything she wants to especially during the summer visits back and forth but she knows that she's responsible to bring it back over here, hence the responsibility now for her to govern a suitcase.   BTW, we could not share ANYTHING with their mother when they were little, she would take stuff and it would go missing from our house (especially coats), not returned with kids or purposefully damaged or the stuff she'd have them wear from her place was too small, unwashed, and completely substandard to what we provide them. 

Can anyone suggest their experience or some input.   When I went to say something to husband, he just sighed and dismissed me kind of thing. 

We can't communicate (won't) with their mother.  Period.  It's pointless, trust me on that one. 

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Well, that sucks. I am sorry to hear you're going through this.

As much as it sucks, you can't control what the mother does and doesn't do. So what is in the children's best interest? You may just have to make sure they have clothes at your place regardless and despite their age, as much as you don't want to. I get that. Also, if the agreement is that each parent provides independently for the children, then you probably should stick to that. Then send them back to their mother's in the clothes they arrived in or in something that wouldn't bother you if you never saw it again.  It may not be a bad idea to document the clothes they are in when she arrives at your place.  My kids are aware that if they take something over to their dad's place, they're responsible for bringing it back if they want to. Otherwise, they have to make do with what is at my place.

I pay my ex a good sized alimony each month. His child support contribution doesn't even cover one week of daycare. He can easily afford to buy them clothes and such, especially if he can afford to take vacations out of town without the kids. He's BPD/NPD. Prior to the divorce and parenting agreement, he told me repeatedly that I should provide every single thing the children would use at his place during his time, even shampoo. I refused. At the time, I did give him some of their current clothes, though, as it would be good for the kids. So far he's been mostly providing clothes for them when they're at his place. I feel lucky he sends them back in the clothes I sent them in. I didn't really care as long as they were wearing decent and appropriate clothes and shoes. He complains often about having to buy them things and tries to force it onto me often. I refuse to let him bully me into it and make sure they're dressed appropriately when they're with me.

I completely understand being upset about losing clothes and such at their mother's place. It really really sucks. I have that issue as well from time to time and I have to find a way to let it go because I know it won't get resolved. It's pretty futile. I understand your husband's unwillingness to deal with it also. It really sucks and I'm sorry you're going through this.

[livednlearned]

There's a helpful book called Love and Logic for Teens that I found useful for this kind of thing. In a nutshell, it's about lovingly coaching them through the consequences of their own actions. Experience is a great teacher, in other words.

I do think kids with a disordered parent get off to a rocky start when it comes to emotional maturity. That can have an impact on organizing their thoughts, themselves, their stuff.

If your SD doesn't show up with the right kind of clothing, and that prevents her from doing activities, that's kinda her hoe to row. Or, she can do the activities in the wrong clothes.

Easier said than done, I know. But you tried the alternative, which is to remind her. It's up to her what to do with that support.

My S16 is the same way and he lives with me full time   That kid would forget his face if it wasn't part of his body.  

I cut him a little slack because he's evidently on the autism spectrum (high functioning). So I coach him on stuff and then let him sort things out. If he asks me for something he forgot, and it isn't a huge disruption to my schedule, I will help. Otherwise, I validate his frustration and that's it.

Hold firm on your boundaries to not buy a second set of everything. Shopping is rarely an answer to having a disordered parent   and it would only irritate you if stuff drifted over to the other house.

[worriedStepmom]

Why are you wanting to change the expectations now?  What does your husband think about this?

You may be putting your SD in an impossible position - you want her to bring things but her mom doesn't want her to bring anything to your house (and may actually forbid it).  What if you want her to bring items that she doesn't have (mom hasn't provided it yet)?  What if she's at your house and an event comes up and she has nothing appropriate to wear because she didn't know to pack for that?  What if all the clothes you ask her to bring at her other house are dirty?

We choose to have a wardrobe form my SD10 here, and we will always do so.  Bringing a suitcase to our case makes it seem like she's visiting... .and she's not.  She lives here too.  The only outfits that the kids (my SD and my bio-kids) bring between houses are sports uniforms/sports shoes.  Most of my friends who have blended families have the same policy that we do.

Does this mean that often we buy most of the clothes for a season because the other parent doesn't and our kids always wear inappropriate stuff back to our house?  YES.  ALL THE FRICKING TIME.  Do we do it without complaining?  YES.  Because I'd rather do that than have my kid wear clothes 2 sizes too small or my stepkid wear clothes 4 sizes too big (both of these happened recently).

My opinion, as a family which both receives and pays child support, is that the CS covers expenses at the home of the primary custodial parent.  It doesn't mean that the primary custodial parent pays for things needed at the other parent's home.  It doesn't mean that the primary custodial parent is responsible for 100% of every child cost.  It also doesn't mean that you have any say whatsoever on what the other parent spends the CS on - you can't control her, even with a move like this (which is essentially manipulation).  You're just putting your SD in the middle.

[worriedStepmom]

Sorry, I just noticed that your husband sighs and dismisses it when you bring this up.

That implies he doesn't care - that he doesn't support you on this.

It is probably best to just let it go and one of you take SD shopping for the minimum wardrobe she'll need at your home.

[Klera]

I forgot to mention that the reason I want to change things, not only financially, but that now the kids are teens (I can shop for my SS13 - tees and sweatpants only) but my SD15 has her own tastes now plus her sizing is not that of a little girl that I used to be able to swing by somewhere if I saw something she was needing, I'd have it here for her.    She doesn't wear what most of what I provide for her here anyway, I threw out quite a bit that I realized she didn't wear half of it, she outgrew fast, things to have here in case we went out, visiting her grandmother or something nice other than for outside activities.

So I felt that her mother can now go shopping with her (good luck on that one).  We have them every second weekend and yes, this is their home too but they are just visiting.   When I was 14, I was going to and from houses, my dad didn't have anything of mine at his house as I lived full time with my mom so I always packed a bag visiting weekends throughout my teens. 

LNL: your bang on with the organization and maturity.  We are having one hell of a time with the boy 13.  He too, would forget his head if not attached!  I do recognize the challenges of a disordered parent and I have worked very diligently at not putting those kids in the middle, trust me.  Now is the first time I'm experimenting with my SD to introduce her bringing things over here.   I don't think shopping for more is the answer, so thanks LNL.  I will pull myself out of this and if she mentions to her dad she needs something that will be between him and her. 

I'm so tired of caring, that I'm letting this all go.  My SD will have to just learn and that's it.  Thanks, LNL (as usual).

Cheers

[Panda39]

Just wanted to say I can relate to this too, my SO has 2 daughters and an uBPDxw. Mom had hording tendencies to begin with, but early on we would describe her house as a black hole... .everything that went in was never seen again. Oh except once when my SO bought his older daughter some school cloths only to find his ex-wife wearing them!  

Socks and underwear disappeared and were replaced all the time.  We decided to do the separate wardrobes idea and yes some stuff did migrate back to the black hole but eventually we noticed that the things the girls valued stayed at dad's house. Good thing too... .

The girls mom was evicted 3 times, some of their belonging strewn all over the lawn in trash bags, and other things left behind.  After the final eviction everything was put in a storage unit that didn't get paid for and everything was auctioned off.  It's so sad... .all of their childhood things gone... .poof

I think whatever approach you try be as consistent as you can, keep in mind that they are still kids, also remember they are most likely under pressure from their mother.  Remember there are natural consequences to the kids actions... .your SD discovered that when she didn't bring any of her stuff. Validate the desired behaviors and at 15 maybe some peer pressure will come into play that helps too.

Panda39

[Klera]

Also forgot to mention the rule here is what they come in (clothes and shoes) is what they go home in.  They come on Friday and by Sunday afternoon it's washed and ready to go back, right down to the skivvies.  This has been in place since they were little once I clued in that it was hopeless to trust their mother to return their things in good condition and or at all.  They don't know why this rule exists, only that they follow it and they're really good at it.  

My husband doesn't usually dismiss me on things, we always talk things out but I guess I was not in a receptive mood when my SD showed up without anything despite my text to remind her (she sent back "alrighty!" so I assumed it was not an issue.  She uses her school bag so I assume mumsy dearest doesn't question what's in it.    Trust  me, I'd be surprised if she cares really.    If they are governing their own things then less likely she will meddle much now.  

[Klera]

Thanks Panda!  Gosh I'm so sorry to hear that about their mom and their belongings!  How awful.  I was wondering how you were doing these days.

Oh yeah, now my SD15 is saying doesn't wash her hair often (on purpose).  Says it outright.  Mumsy dearest has started paying attention to her hair and got it cut recently (a miracle as I used help out with that) and that she bought some hair dye from the drugstore and helped her with some colour.  It looks okay but I'm pissed at the fact that she isn't washing her hair now.   I have to hold firm on our rules at our house (washing not optional) plus last night she jumped into bed without brushing her teeth so I gently tapped on the door and asked if she forgot something?(eye roll)  She's a good kid, really but I'm having to dig my heels in a bit. 

I also want to mention about the priorities at mom's are so out of whack.  I think you mentioned about a kid having an abscessed tooth but the mom would ignore the dentist but buy them jewellery instead.   I think that was you who mentioned about the wiring is just not right (disordered thinking).   So to shop for hair dye is much more of a priority here instead of getting her underwear and socks... .and ignore the fact that her daughter is not washing her hair or brushing her teeth...   I too have to constantly refill the drawer!  oh lordy don't get me started on that!   

[kells76]

Oh man, the underwear and socks... .Right there with you klera! Somehow even though we are keeping Fruit of the Loom in business, most underwear ends up at Mom's house. Which on the one hand is fine and kind of interesting (SD12 may have a sense that she needs to bring it from here to Mom's, in order to have some there?), but on the other hand yup, no appropriate clothes when needed.

So what I've started to do is from the "Love & Logic" books that LnL suggested -- turn an appropriate amount of agency for choices over to the kids. The other night, SD12: "I have no underwear! That's what I wear to sleep!" Me: "What do you think you want to do about that?" SD12: "I don't know!" Me: "Well, I could wash some, but it won't be ready until tomorrow. What else could you do?" Then some brainstorming about whether she had really looked everywhere for a pair. Guess what, she had "no idea why" they were in a different drawer (I have an idea why, ), but there they were.

Your step kids are in a tough spot. There may be resistance from Mom about bringing clothes over, but like you said, you texted SD and it seemed like she knew what was up. It might be tough to do, but it could really help them grow up and build some strong skills if you let them experience the natural outcome of not having what they need. Your SD might be wearing a bizarre outfit but maybe that will be how she learns to remember to bring stuff.

Asking those questions like "what do you want to do about this" or "what's your plan for rain gear" can feel like going into the unknown -- what if they say "I don't know" or "I don't care" or something -- but those questions can be like new doors opening for them where they learn that they have to take responsibility for their lives (something Mom may not be teaching them).

One more potential practical idea -- do they get an allowance at your place? If you can set it up in a controlled fashion (maybe no cash handout, but a written account of what you & Dad give per week), when SD says I need pants but I don't have any here, you can say No problem, you have $10 in your account, let's go to the thrift store! Then if she says No, that's on her. She wanted pants, you presented an option, she declined... .OK, no problem! She is choosing to not have pants. Not your problem any more :-)

Hope these ideas help... .

kells76

[DreamGirl]

The clothing wars is as ancient and ongoing as the beginning of having two households.

The worst for me was when my SD borrowed my skiing jacket to go snowboarding... .and her mom was wearing it the next time I saw her. "Yeah, that's my jacket... ."  

And I never let her borrow a jacket again.

All I have to add to what everyone has already said is that it will get easier in the next couple of years. If her mom isn't a complete control freak over clothes (some are, won't let kiddos take the good clothes to dad's house), she'll start being more mindful of what she's wearing.

I do know that if it's driving me crazy enough, I take the kids shopping and hit the clearance rack (and I love when Goodwill is cool!) even though mom is supposed to be taking that child support and buying them clothes for both houses (cause that's what the court order says).

That way I don't feel too put out financially and I don't have to suffer watching them wear clothes two sizes too small and loan them a pair of flip flops because all they have is tennis shoes when it's 80 degrees outside.

Sometimes $100 is money well spent to keep me feeling sane and doing the right thing... .

[Klera]

Thanks DreamGirl and Kells76;

Very much appreciated, thank you for the excellent tips.  For some reason just hearing that others can relate makes things that much easier.  Wow! Your ski jacket?... .  no words.   

I remember reading early on that someone else confirmed what a common problem this was between houses and doesn't surprise me, just encourages me to reach out more.

We'll try out the book recommended and helping the kids to work out their own plans of action and choices and responsibility for their lives. 

They don't get an allowance here but they get some cash for gifts at xmas and birthdays.  That's another sore spot with me, I know my SD takes it with her over to mom's for her fun money with friends.  I don't know what goes on over there but it's never consistent, as far as them doing chores or not, whether they get an allowance over there.   I have the feeling their mother is not there that much and that they are different kids with her and the three of them don't seem to really communicate at all with each other.   There doesn't appear to be any structure, discipline or supervision over at their other house which, since they've become teens, the disinterest and neglect has gotten worse, like she's thrown up her hands now and they can take care of themselves attitude, like her job is done.     My SD will most likely get a job soon for summers, so that will be good for her to learn that there isn't, in fact,  a money tree growing in the back yard. 

If it were up to me, spouses receiving child support should have to provide receipts and proof it's actually going towards the kids.  But of course I know that's not reality, she spends it with self centred entitlement.   In fact, she rents a house so the child support basically covers her rent.  She has spent the divorce settlement which is why she had to sell the marital home.     One day I believe the kids will know everything that's happened (the truth) and that will be up to them to decide what their relationship will be with their mom.  It's a shame that she is essentially has spent and continues to what their dad left for them (a house he designed and built is now gone, she sold it... .POOF! sorry kids, you can ask your mom about that one day... .and she can explain herself why there is nothing left for you).

cheers,
Klera   

[kells76]

I don't know what goes on over there but it's never consistent, as far as them doing chores or not, whether they get an allowance over there.

Yup. I heard stories from the kids of Mom "borrowing" their allowance to pay for gas. Actually, that was one of the first weird things I started Googling to figure out what was going on. I couldn't put my finger on it at first (alert, it's a role reversal and a broken boundary!) That helped me to strengthen my resolve that when we decided to do allowances for the kids at our place, we would only do it if we could afford it.

In terms of chores, one thing you can remember is that you can always quote a price (OK, $5 for cleaning X, Y, and Z) and then you DON'T actually have to give them the cash. You can write it down in a notebook or something (the "chore money" book), or just go right out to the thrift store for pants or whatever, with you paying. That might get you around the problem of the kids not having money at your place.

I know it might be different because they're a little older than the girls and probably do more independent shopping. But maybe it'll be a springboard idea for more brainstorming.