Co-Parenting With A Human Potential Movement Guru

[Turkish]

My ex carries a book in the nook on her dash.  Something like "Habits of The Successful Person."

Two years ago,  she got me a faux leather-bound book,  it looked like a Bible,  something like,  "How To Reach Your Potential." Do I telegraph that I am a loser? I flipped though it and regifted it to the security receptionist at work (she may have needed it).

Two years ago,  I reached up to touch the ceiling in my bedroom as the kids were getting ready for bed.  Then S6 jumped up and I said, "you can't touch it." He said,  "Mommy says that 'can't' is a bad word." I replied,  "actually, you can't touch the ceiling right now,  but you will be tall enough to do so in the future.  Right now you could only touch the ceiling with a ladder or if I pick you up.  So it's correct to say that you can't like I do,  but you can with help." He seemed satisfied with that answer.

Last week,  my ex told me that she got 7 Habits of Happy Kids. There are also children's books co written by Stephen Covey, the guy who wrote 7 Habits Of Highly Effective People.

Really? I didn't run into this stuff until I was working for a Fortune 500 tech company (starting when I was 20, but at 44 when she gifted me that book, I was still a loser in my ex's eyes? *eyeroll*).

This morning I had breakfast with her and the kids at Denny's. D just turned 6 was doing a maze on the kids menu.  My ex said, "can you think of a different way to solve the puzzle?" She didn't give time for our daughter to process it,  but rather took the crayon and bypassed the maze from start to end.  D6 sat there staring at her paper.  So did I. My ex said,  "there is more than one solution to a problem and I want you to think outside of the box." D6 just sat there,  unable to process the idiom.  I said, "it's kind of like shopping. You can choose to wait in line to pay,  or you can just walk out of the store with your stuff." My ex protested that it wasn't the same,  then our food came and the subject was dropped.

Kobayashi-Maru solution for our kids? Too bad she didn't live in ancient Greece.  She could have saved Theseus time and thread. 

I see nothing wrong with teaching kids values and responsibility at this age,  but in my experience,  all of the other stuff builds upon that,  not platitudes which young children are unable to process.

My ex was into her own "business" when she left.  It read going to make her rich.  It was a multi level marketing (pyramid) "scheme" selling insurance. She did so many training sessions,  and I know that they used LGAT (Large Group Awareness Training) techniques: high pressure, overly long kumbaya sessions, group FOG, to train. The scariest thing about that stuff, based upon the HPM est from the 70s, is that it works... .to make money for the minority at the top.  She fell for it,  but I haven't heard about it for two years. 

I'm just going to keep raising the kids how I see fit at my house,  but I'll call BS how I see it. 

I get that her heart is in the right place, but her mind is somewhere else, IMNSHO.

[kells76]

That sounds incredibly annoying at best. Sorry you have to deal with that, Turkish.

The girls' mom & stepdad are really into "emotional health", political yard signs, marches, movements, etc. I think it structures their selves. We used to play it pretty safe when talking anywhere close to their stuff ("well, everyone has different views" because we didn't want to do what Mom & Stepdad were doing (being pushy and intrusive about the "right" views).

But I think you're right that at some point, it actually sends the wrong message to just be like, "everyone believes different things, and it's all good". Because it's not, and some of it is BS. And it is ok (I need to keep telling myself) to push back -- assertively -- against that false stuff.

I thought you did a fine job with the literal dissection of "can't touch the ceiling". Nice work. That may be a good strategy to keep in mind for the future -- just stay factual, literal, and as accurate and grounded in reality as you can.

SD12 especially can't get enough of literal, non-hyperbolic, factual discussions of earth science and geography, for example (we have a giant world map). I try to frame stuff as "my best guess is" or "if this hypothesis is correct, then" or "to be honest, I don't know, but we could research it."

Do you think this is a "flavor of the month" type thing for her?

[Turkish]

I didn't pick up on this when we were together. Her H, 20 years younger than me. Was into it.  She's been at this for 4 years. I don't see it stopping. Without a solid parental base, I see her as rudder less. This is about her more than the kids.  At 36, she is still paying off student loans from a non accredited school.  Even at 17, with zero direction from my mother, I knew that the community college system was better to go into than what she did. 

[kells76]

Yeah, with the kids' mom's "art", same deal. So, so rudderless, I think it feels like "meaning" to her. I wonder if it is somehow validating to your kids' mom when she can get the kids to do it too -- like, she must be on the right path, because the kids are doing it. That whole using the kids to prop yourself up deal.

And yeah, totally about her, not the kids. Maybe it's like finding religion? I would guess for someone lacking a strong (or any) sense of self, intense group participation with a sense of "this is Moral" is appealing. Religion, politics, art, social media phenomena, bumper stickers, hashtags, self help.

[Turkish]

I think it is exactly like you described. 

[formflier]

Turkish,
 
The vibe I'm picking up on is that you wish to train your kids in the regular rules... .before teaching them how JT Kirk would have done it.  Right?

And really... .likely best to train them in the regular rules and then encourage them... .big time... .to find themselves and their pathway as they are upper teens and looking at life.

Trying to get a 6 year old to realize that "cheating" is ok... .is just silly.

I wonder if it may be better to agree with her that she has worthy ideas... .yet try to talk about the ideas that are age appropriate right now.

Perhaps... .instead of opposing the bus... you hop on and use the steering wheel some.  

Pragmatism rules here... .and... as always ask the big question... .WWKD?

WWSD?

You know those two never agreed... but somehow both ideas came together for the best.

FF

[PeteWitsend]

"Self improvement" and needing to "fix" people seem to be common BPD themes.

My uBPDw has a stack of self-help and personal productivity books on her nightstand.  It's not all she reads, but it's close.

She gets them for me too, so I can be "successful."  I never read them.

and before she went back to work full time, she was constantly scheming with friends about starting a business.  none of which ever went anywhere, but all of which would have eaten up thousands of dollars in start-up costs, had I not succeeded in convincing her in each case to take a conservative approach to creating a website, buying inventory, etc.

Her ideas of success seem wrapped up in perception as much as any objective measure.  while wanting to appear successful and happy is a common human thing, it's extremely important for her.  She needs constant reassurances and adulation from others, or she feels like a failure.  

It makes me concerned for the long term... .I know all that is fleeting and "keeping up with the Joneses" makes it hard to actually enjoy life and be happy - in my opinion.

[PeteWitsend]

The focus on "self-help / self-improvement" and entrepreneurship might seem positive, or at least harmless, in my experience the real purpose of them seems to be to allow the pwBPD to avoid accepting responsibilty for their behavior in any meaningful way.

Like instead of apologizing for raging out of control when you didn't respond as desired after they told you their idea for a vacation plan next week, as you were heading out the door to work, recognizing they're behavior was problem, and not acting like that in future situations, they'll get you a book about "learning emotional empathy."

[Turkish]

A friend of mine termed it this way,  "parenting by platitude."

I learned today that our son is young to be recognized by the district for being an advanced reader. They usually notice a few kids being so advanced by 4th grade, but they haven't seen it to this degree in 2nd. I'm wondering how much mom will take credit.  When we were first dating, she criticized me to people we had just meet at a BBQ. "He reads all of the time!" The young lady said, "what's wrong with that?" My ex backtracked, realizing she didn't have a recruit. "Oh, nothing... ." last week she was complaining about our son reading at the dinner table. Don't kill his spirit, please! This recognition should validate her for a while