What are some red flags / signs of an affair?

[PeteWitsend]

Hey all,

I wanted to ask this question for a couple reasons... .

1) I know some other people here have shared that they eventually learned their BPD partner/spouse had been seeing someone else, and in some cases, that same partner had often (falsely) accused the Non of infidelity prior to that.

if this happened, how did you find out?

and

2) While I have no reason to suspect any infidelity on my spouse's part, she has occasionally "gone there" in terms of making veiled threats of "finding someone else to take care of her if I won't"... .sometimes in third person, sometimes using the first person pronoun.  And she has often accused me of either cheating, or "liking someone else at work."

While I have no reasons to suspect anything... .my wife is never away on business, she doesn't go out at night with friends and stay out late, I've never caught her talking to or texting other guys, and she's never displayed some of the reckless/addictive behaviors of BPD, her accusations toward me, make me suspicious... .is she projecting?

Appreciate any insights you can provide.

[formflier]

So... .most likely it is projection of feelings/fears... rather than actual actions.  Especially given your description of what she does.

Especially given her threats... .it seems like a manipulation rather than something she really wants.

Not sure if I answered the question or not... .but my unsolicited advice is to focus more on what YOU do and DON'T do and focus far less on her (and investigating her).

Investigations will find "something" that is really usually nothing, but because of our emotional involvement we make it something.  That usually makes the investigation more damaging than the "real" something that is found.

Said another way... .if you actually have suspicions... .hire a private eye... .or do nothing.

If there really is an affair... .by keeping your eyes open, it will eventually show up.  Keeping eyes open and investigating are very different.

FF

[SlyQQ]

Are you worried that her having an affair is a sign she is going to leave

or just per se.

[Turkish]

Having gone through this, I'll boil it down  (in retrospect): she may be just asking for more attention from you. 

I was mad and "blessed" my ex's desire to go out clubbing, even at gay clubs, which I mistakenly thought were safe. I stayed home with then D1 and S3 because i thought that was the right thing to do.  My values, her values, me missing the signals.  What she was really communicating was for me to pay more attention to her.  What do you think?

[formflier]

  What she was really communicating was for me to pay more attention to her.  What do you think?

Turkish,

In your situation, knowing what you know now... .what do you think you would have done differently?

FF

[Turkish]

As the child of a BPD mother,  I learned to retreat. I did,  and it triggered her abandonment fears. I'm not responsible for her choices, but I do like to think that I may have turned out differently if I had picked up on what she was communicating implicitly.I ran into a values conflict, however. It is hard to make decisions when this happens.

[PeteWitsend]

Are you worried that her having an affair is a sign she is going to leave

or just per se.

Oh, I am not really worried about her leaving.  Haha, she can go if she wants; I'll find someone new who isn't BPD (or acts like it most of the time).

I am only asking because she's made the vague threats and comments about finding a guy who will take care of her if I don't, or justifying women who do cheat, based on them getting what they need.  I wondered if in other people's experience that's something to take seriously, or is it just more bluffing & manipulative conduct from them.  She did it recently, and I remembered some posts from people who went through similar situations, and started thinking about it.  If she's often accusing/suspecting me, is that because she's in the same boat?  she's attractive and I assume other guys she works with give her attention and flirt with her. 

My gut instinct?  in my own case, I think it's the latter: bluffing, manipulation.   she's not out clubbing, she doesn't text/call other guys, and her facebook profile is a pic of her and our kids.  the few times she's left her account open and I snooped, I didn't see anything to be concerned with, including sent/received messages, likes, comments, etc.  (not that couldn't be intentional on her part... .) She generally seems to want to spend time with me/our kids, but uses manipulative, indirect tactics to go about it.  

I don't know; just wanted some feedback on this.

[Cipher13]

I am 100% in the same boat. I think in your situation as probably in mine it is a method to get you to do something or get your reaction to something. Just yester day my wife mentioned a dream she had where I would wake up in the middle of the night and sneak out of the house and have a bunch of affairs and sneak back into the house. The idea is so absurd that I didn't think I needed to respond all that much to it. We have 3 dogs that bark at decibels that wake the dead at the mere motion of the door knob/lock. So how would anyone sneak out much less back in. I just said I'm sorry you had such a bad dream. She wanted me to talk about it in detail and convince her it wasn't true.  Also she has mentioned finding a guy that would treat her better and love her the way she deserves. To that guy I say Good luck Chuck. I know it is only meant to get a reaction.   I think you will know true signs of cheating. What you have explained doesn't seem to have any merit or hint of cheating, especially with the little snoop into the facebook profile didn't make you pause then I'd say these are threats only.

[formflier]

Hey Pete... .just as much as I'm pushing you to be a harda$$ about money and BS talk (I think you should get to zero tolerance pretty quick... .seriously  30 seconds and exit)

I also want to push you to address what you wife may "really" be saying.

Such as ":)o you still care?"  or "do you find me attractive?" or... ."do you like spending time with me?"

So... .have high boundaries and build bridges toward her.

FF

[PeteWitsend]

Hey Pete... .just as much as I'm pushing you to be a harda$$ about money and BS talk (I think you should get to zero tolerance pretty quick... .seriously  30 seconds and exit)

I also want to push you to address what you wife may "really" be saying.

Such as ":)o you still care?"  or "do you find me attractive?" or... ."do you like spending time with me?"

So... .have high boundaries and build bridges toward her.

FF

I know. 

Her and I haven't spoken since Tuesday night, when she blew up at me over her demand that I take care of my MIL's dental issues, and subsequent text-fight with my brother over a joke he made that she decided to take offense over.

Today she asked, with a lot of hostility in her voice, if I was coming to the zoo with them (MIL, BPDw, & kids).  I said no, I had yard work to do, and walked outside. 

I've done a lot of thinking over the passed week, and found some other threads I had posted back in 2016 online, when I first realized that efforts to address my wife's complaints, take them at face value, and use the communication techniques our first MC suggested were getting nowhere, and indeed things were getting worse.  I also found some threads I hadn't read before in the "Libary" section of the boards here about the nature of BPD.

I've come to some realizations:

1) I had forgotten how much I went through, and the extensive effort I put forth (naive maybe but in good faith) at trying to work things out and preserve our marriage.

2) I really am just filling a bottomless pit, and that's never going to change.

3) If it wasn't me filling it, it would just be someone else.  And maybe on some level, she cares about me, and would prefer it be me, deep down inside, all she really cares about is that it's someone.

4) I need to focus on myself and my kids going forward.  And on rebuilding friendships and family relationships I've neglected because of her, and her disapproval of them.  I've spent far too much time on her and her needs. 

[PeteWitsend]

I guess one concern I had, and one reason why her threats to "find another guy" or  - going back to when we were dating - flouting the attention she was receiving from other men, bother me so much.

I really was concerned she'd cheat on me and get away with it.  Or (horror) get pregnant by some other guy.

I don't know if she'd really go that far on these threats... .she seemed to curb them when I got really angry about them, but she will occasionally work one of those weaselly statements like "If a man doesn't take care of his woman, he shouldn't be surprised if another man does."   

I'm done caring.  Hell, I'll register her for Tinder.  she can go hit the bars this weekend and find someone else.  I'll even buy them drinks. 

[PeteWitsend]

Well, we finally had what I thought would be the follow up fight/makeup talk.

I resolved in my head what I wanted to talk about, and what the biggest issue was for me, namely that I wasn't going to tolerate anymore attacks where she demands I "prove that I would stand with her" or "take her side" against whatever hapless friend or family member of mine wandered into her bad mood.  I told her I was going to simply leave the house whenever these sort of conflicts started.

Well, I don't remember how it happened, exactly, but she brought up divorce as the only option then.  I said okay, and we went for a walk and talked about how we would handle it.

she suggested we do a DIY divorce, and just have an attorney she met earlier represent us both.

I'm concerned by this... .

Having seen an attorney before, when we nearly got divorced last year, I'm familiar generally with how things would shake out even if contested, so in theory it could work, and save us about $7500 or more.  We live in a no-alimony/community property state, with child support obligations defined by statute.  And child custody rights are as well, absent a showing of abuse, at which time the judge's discretion comes into play.

[Red5]

Well, we finally had what I thought would be the follow up fight/makeup talk.

I resolved in my head what I wanted to talk about, and what the biggest issue was for me, namely that I wasn't going to tolerate anymore attacks where she demands I "prove that I would stand with her" or "take her side" against whatever hapless friend or family member of mine wandered into her bad mood.  I told her I was going to simply leave the house whenever these sort of conflicts started.

Well, I don't remember how it happened, exactly, but she brought up divorce as the only option then.  I said okay, and we went for a walk and talked about how we would handle it.

she suggested we do a DIY divorce, and just have an attorney she met earlier represent us both.

I'm concerned by this... .

Pete,

My first wife (ex) offered a "diy" divorce, and I was smart enough to say no way, so I hired a lawyer, and I am glad I did, or else I would have gotten racked over the preverbal coals.

Its like this, you have to look at how your wife is treating you now, and as well in the past, .that's your yardstick indicator.

Fact !

So you went for a walk with her, and you were able to talk with her, .again, my ex would have moments of clear continuity of communication, but it was just for her to get what she wanted from me, nothing more... .my ex was a master manipulator.

Oh' my... .and NOT to mention, I later found out, .my ex was pregnant with some other blokes child at the time, which she aborted when I served her with papers, wow, .the war stories I could tell... .and this was all the while I was in Japan, and she was here in the states... .yeah, .I was a "dear John"... .

I pray, I hope that you are not about to go though this as I did, but I have to say, .do not trust this most important life/legal maneuver to your BPD wife's illogical whims, and errant legal interpretations, don't do it !... ., get a lawyer, she won't be able to manipulate a strong solicitor, .yes, use the past/present as an indicator of what would happen if you two went diy... .it will be the best $$ you ever spent, and you will be protected, .she will have to deal with facts & not what she thinks is; the way it is (BPD).

Hope this helps,

Red5

[PeteWitsend]

Yeah, I will def get an attorney.

there's just too much out there I don't know (disclaimer: both wife and I are attys, but neither of us do family law.)

even if we settle amicably, we still need a pro to draft all the ins and outs of the settlement and order. 

beyond that, I strongly suspect her plan to amicably split via a cheap DIY divorce would be a trap.

her attitude has already changed from cold detachment, to laying a guilt trip on me for leaving... .she was the one who suggested it yesterday... .

[Red5]

Yeah, I will def get an attorney.

I strongly suspect her plan to amicably split via a cheap DIY divorce would be a trap.

... .her attitude has already changed from cold detachment, to laying a guilt trip on me for leaving... .she was the one who suggested it yesterday... .

Good!, .yes, diy would be a trap, as she would be her own "negotiator", .and reading a pw/BPD in the midst of divorce negotiations would be like trying to read a ships compass at the north pole, .not going to happen, just spin spin and more spin... .and endless ice as far as the horizon,

I am not a lawyer, but I am a rocket scientist  !

Take good care of yourself Pete !

Red5

[formflier]

Since you are an attorney, you understand the importance of having your own representation.  Don't give that up.

It will be money well spent, especially as opposed to trying to undo a "diy" screw up.

FF