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Author Topic: Young Adult Daughter - how much help is too much, where to draw the line?  (Read 978 times)
HFhelp

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« on: May 07, 2018, 10:21:31 AM »

Young adult daughter lives on her own.  She Quit her job, refuses to get a job and only rages hate at us if we do not send money.  Trying to idk balance on support and where to draw the line.  Afraid she will go homeless to prove point to us.

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Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2018, 12:45:55 PM »

 Hi!   HFhelp,

                 So very sorry you find yourself in this place, but it is a good place for support and comfort and understanding. How old is your daughter? The frustration of support or enabling can be terrible on parents. We love our kids, want them to do well, on their own. Sometimes that can't be accomplished without a failure or two. My daughter was homeless in another state with her new born son for close to a year. Tore my heart out. But I'm a big believer in natural consequences, she choose to do that. When you feel more comfortable please share more of your story. We are here to listen.
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HFhelp

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« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2018, 01:31:58 PM »

My daughter is 20 almost 21 and lives in another state.  She has been and is currently in therapy and meds for years.  She has recently stopped meds but still goes to therapy.  She quit her job and had living expenses saved up to cover 3-4 months living expenses.  We offered to help if she quit.(it was a bad work situation)  but that turned into 150 hate texts when we refused to send her money immediately.  She also, after she quit, spent the equivalent of 2 months rent on concert tickets and airfare.  Now she contends she is paralyzed by anxiety and stress and can not get a job and no one will hire her anyway.  My wife and I are setting boundaries but don't know where the disability starts and ends.  She has a history of manipulation to get her way coupled with my willingness to resume her in the past.  

So we are not sure how much help is too much,  it is a fine line between rescue and help. I realize every situation is unique but I am looking for similar stories to gain perspective.

Please share what you are comfortable with your story. It seems similar. Are you in communication now with her?



Thanks,
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bluek9
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« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2018, 02:42:45 PM »

   HFhelp,

              My daughter is going to be 36 in August. Besides the BPD she is also on the Autism spectrum. I have tried so many things over the years. She does not work and never has. She is so intolerant of people, has no friends. She has only had 2 brief periods of not living with me. The one I shared with and one other time when she was going from care home to care home. Like your daughter mine is in therapy and taking meds. Thankfully she has never fought me on that.
              Spending her money was her choice, even though it put her in a bind. And yes manipulation is a big part of the BPD. My daughter is a master mind at that. There is no easy answer, which makes life so challenging. Keep in mind with your boundaries what you are, and what you are not willing to accept in terms of her behavior. Oh yes, trust me there will be meltdowns with this. Instead of enabling think of it as coming to a compromise. You will put in xyz effort if she also puts in xyz effort to come to the same goal together.
             I just enjoyed a 4 month period of no meltdowns, then the other day, wow.  Maybe approaching the job issue since she has worked could be like her seeing a voc/rehab specialist to help her find the right kind of work environment. Also since she lives in another state it sounds like she enjoys her independence; you could take the view of "hey since you like living on your own, lets talk about ways your mom and I can support you in that without it being financial".
           Just throwing some ideas out there. It has taken me a long time to get my daughter to work with me in certain areas. I'm her payee so money is constantly an issue. Get back with me, share what you are working on and how it's going.
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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2018, 10:20:07 PM »

Hi HFHelp,

Welcome   I'm so sorry you're going through this. My daughter would go a few months without a job, she usually found boyfriends to pay for her for a bit. The less money we gave her, eventually the more fed up with being broke and bored she got. It can take people with BPD a very long time to decide to change but they can and do. I spent months resigning myself to the potential of my daughter being homeless. My plan was to offer to drive her to a shelter (or send her in an Uber).

Right now things are going the best they ever have and I hope it lasts. I think we got here because she had to suffer with herself and her bad decisions for so long. We never stopped telling her we love her. I like Bluek9's idea of aksing what other support you can provide that's not financial. For the longest time my daughter equated money with love. It's taken a lot of work but now she sees spending time with us as love.

My daughter is also 20, almost 21.

I'm sorry circumstances brought you here , but I'm glad you found us. We are here for you.
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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2018, 02:52:49 AM »

Hi there hfhelp

Welcome!

This is such a great question and one I asked myself many times. We just didn’t see our situation from the outside and I got to work here to help me and my family.

My son (now 27) left home three times. He’d always downward spiral and didn’t have the skill set to succeed. I’d save him before his fall.

He returned home last time at 24. We’d been fully financing him as he was supposed to be looking for work and building a life for himself. He wasn’t functioning, couldn’t think beyond his immediate need and manipulating us. Our savings soon went.  We brought him home.

My hard work began learning about BPD and how to interact with him, becoming the parent he needed.

My mantra:  everything he should do for himself, he should do himself.

Now, this sounds so simple but it wasn’t easy believe me. Every time a problem arose I’d ask myself “is this my problem or his?”. It was always his problem for him to resolve himself and he learnt by making mistakes.

It helped because he was living under my roof, was “safe”, we gave him food and board for free - but we stopped giving him money.  This worked for him as he could feel that he was loved by being home. My son is a quiet BPD and he doesn’t rage so that in itself was a help - but it was incredibly difficult as he was so depressed.

It was up to him to find work so he could buy his tobacco, weed and whatever else he decided to spend his money on. I called his bluff and slowly slowly he started to work more and then I introduced rent so he could learn some financial management skills.  He moved out 6 months ago amicably and things are better, despite the problems.

My son only learns by consequence. I just couldn’t see him homeless as I was just so fearful. We found a way that worked for us, and I’m very hopeful that you can find your own too. We only learnt by the consequence of our own actions, our savings gone - we are not prepared to financially support an adult forever, we have our own lives and plans for retirement. We got our life back.

I got myself a simple plan. It kept me in the straight and narrow.

LP
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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2018, 09:40:56 PM »

Wow, this is the thing I am constantly struggling with. How to determine when my son needs the help as a result of his mental illness and when have I enabled him to his own detriment? I am just starting the BPD journey after hearing from multiple treatment providers that he is exhibiting personality traits on top of the previously diagnosed depression/anxiety/bipolar. He has had 5 hospitalizations starting at 15 and I feel he needs to be in the hospital now but have been unable to make that happen. He is 24. In spite of being very intelligent and intellectually curious he has been unable to tolerate a school environment since his first hospitalization. He has never been able to work and we have tried vocational rehab etc. He went to JobCorp and maintained that for 6 months and reverted immediately when he returned to our hometown. I managed to hook him up with AmeriCorp quickly and he ended up moving 2000 miles away to pursue that. It only lasted 2 months, he couldn't sustain it, but chose to stay in his new location. We have connected him with treatment providers, a really good community mental health center, supported employement program there etc. Again, he does try and does make some progress but is unable to sustain and always ends up back deep in depression, alone, lonely, anxious, and calling with all his sorrow. It is heartbreaking. We provide the basics so he has a roof over his head and is warm in winter and has enough for food. There is no money for extras, for new clothes or a new video game or extra gas to explore the area. I have been hoping living at the edge of poverty would motivate him and that being so alone and isolated would motivate him to engage in something, anything! to alleviate some of the suffering but it hasn't worked. I do think about cutting him off financially as a last ditch attempt at motivating him but can't bring myself to do so because his life is so sad I don't see what benefit he is getting if this is "manipulation" to not work. He does engage in treatment and I have been applying pressure to increase his efforts and want him to join a DBT group being offered. I know everyone has their own experiences but anyone who is willing to share their thoughts I am more than open to hearing how you have handled a similar sadness
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2018, 12:29:40 PM »

I think pulling back and letting them figure things out on their own is the hardest thing to do (it was for me). My 33 BPD daughter is also a heroin addict. We had been supporting her because she was in Grad school. Unfortunately, she had not been clean for close to 18 months. She actually stayed in school till this last Fall when she dropped out. At that point in time we had supported her completely. We had rented a house for her to live in. When she dropped out of school and we realized she was not clean we completely pulled back. We had never done this before but with the help of a therapist that was what we were told to do. She was evicted, moved to another persons home and was eventually kicked out. She finally became homeless. She slept at a shelter at night and walked the streets during the day. It was terrible for us as her parents but due to her addiction (and BPD) we felt we had no choice. She OD'd twice, went to a mental health hospital and eventually gave in. She is now 8 weeks sober in rehab and her attitude has totally changed. She had been lashing out with negative texts for over a year and we had no good relationship with her. I am not saying this is the right thing to do for everyone but for us in the past we always rescued her. I am grateful she did not die and knowing she lived on the streets was crushing. I had always struggled with the "mental illness" issue and that they always needed our help. The therapist said that they know they have a problem and just like the addiction it is up to them to seek out help for this (we can assist in this). I am sorry for what is going on with your son. My daughter has a long road ahead for her but she knows now it is up to her. I am sure it may be a struggle but she is smarter than me. If she wants it bad enough she will do what is necessary. I do know she does not want to be homeless again. This she has said to me more than once.
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« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2018, 01:27:15 PM »

Thank you for sharing. I know I have to draw stronger boundaries around financial support. I think it is so hard for me for many reasons but ultimately because we do have the ability to provide support and "extras". So guilt plays into it on my part when I see what a miserable life my son has I allow myself to be manipulated above what I have said I was willing to do. I do understand that extra is not helping, or he would be better! But I guess I stumble on the question of whether it is hurting, encouraging dependency and delaying or interfering with motivation to seriously pursue getting better? My husband is completely hands off with my son, he can't take it anymore. He is 64. If my son were to call him my husband would definitely be responsive, he just will not initiate contact. Although he does go out to visit once or twice a year. Our son lives 2000 miles from us.
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HFhelp

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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2018, 01:10:09 PM »

Everyone, thank you for sharing your stories. 

Update.  We are four weeks into her being unemployed, 6 weeks being mad at us.  We set up boundaries, no texting, only calls on the phone.  Texting turned into miscommunications.  Phone calls have been limited but there has been less anger and hate sent our way.  We still have a six year old at home and can not risk her anger and rage impacting him emotionally or physically. So she has to stay out on her own.  We have offered to help pay one month rent and a small amount of money to help with expenses.    We hope this gives her time to regroup, work with her therapist and find a job.  My wife and I are working with a therapist who has a long history with our family to help with our decisions and responses.  It is hard to keep perspective on this when your heart is involved.  I have always rushed in to "fix" things.  This may have not been helpful in the past as it has helped create what we are experiencing now.  We are staying in contact with her but limiting it to not solving her day to day problems. 

All of your stories have been helpful.  I am catching up quickly on dealing with this personality type. 

I will try to keep everyone updated and please keep me up to date on your stories as well.

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« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2018, 09:06:31 PM »

HFhelp

It's so good to hear from you, we'd wondered how you and wife were coping.   Working with a therapist who understands to guide you is what many parents here do, jones, 1hope, Hyacinth B, Daisy123 ... .

I have arrived at a place, my 29DD is working it through with emotional support. Keep posting with us, it really works, wonders!

WDx  

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« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2018, 09:44:27 PM »

When your D quit she felt she had a safety net. I think its important as parents to say no. That's enough, no more. If you keep paying her bills she will never get it or be responsible.

If she has nothing then she is forced to figure it out. I am sure she will. She will also think twice before quitting any job and being stuck with no money.

I know it makes you worry. But making that change will be no worse than whatever she is putting you through right now.
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« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2018, 08:49:58 AM »

Our adult daughter who has BPD and has a drinking problem, has become more in a rage... .swearing at us and hates us. She says, we love her brother more than her ( untrue). 
At present , lives at home and has not worked in a long while. Now, she expects us to find her a place to live ( own apart) and pay her expenses. We do pay for her phone and car insurance. 

We are going for counseling. We in all our life have never seen her in this destructive state. Any help or suggestions will be appreciated.
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HFhelp

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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2018, 10:48:14 AM »

UPDATE:

Our daughter has not spoken with us in 2 weeks.  Her last call was in anger because a couple of family members know she is mad at us. She believes we have turned the family against her.  Not true, her aunt just texted my daughter that " she is from a long line of strong beautiful women, her family loves her but maybe she needs to contact her mom on mothers day".  We shared no details with our extended family except that our daughter was mad at us and not talking with us.  My wife reminded our daughter it is our story as well.  And we would not lie to family pretending everything is great, we waited a month before my wife shared this latest situation with her sister.  So, our daughter is still unemployed,all jobs cause too much anxiety.  She lives on her own and still goes to therapy once a week.  I am not sure what they are working on. But I see no progress on the job front or reconciliation with the family.

This is all very conflicting.  It is nice not being constantly texted or called in anger.  It is good that she is working though this on her own and I am not trying to solve every issue.   But no contact is concerning and the imagination runs wild.  I try to think when I was young- my parents had no idea what I was doing.  That's it for now.



 

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HFhelp

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« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2018, 07:38:32 AM »

Well,  :)D is employed again.  She has not had much, if any, contact with us.  We set up boundaries for our financial support and how we would communicate with her.  She only wants to text, we will only respond or talk over the phone.  Text messaging leaves to much to interpret by both parties.  She has contacted us a few times recently for money or information she needs.  We found out about her job though friends and by monitoring her social media.

During this last crisis we read the book, Walking on Eggshells, and spent time on this site.  We learned how to set boundaries and to validate her emotions as opposed to trying to fix things.  Although we learned these lessons after she was good and angry. But it did help to de-escalate her angry texts to us.

We have sent several cards of support and a care package to her home with no response.  Not even a "thanks" for the support.  

We are proud that she has stayed in therapy, every week, got a good job, and took care of her daily needs during this recent crisis.  It is a great boost to her confidence.  We were too enmeshed in her daily life and decisions.  

Now we don't know how to restart our relationship.  We have made passive attempts, letters and care package.  We do not want to force ourselves into her life.  We prefer she stay independent but everyone needs family.  We don't want our next contact from her to be a crisis.  Any input form the group would be appreciated.

Thanks for the support!
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« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2018, 09:07:50 AM »

Thank you HFhelp for starting this tread and to everyone who has contributed to it because this is the big issue for me right now with my DD46 who has BPD and struggles with substance abuse.  I have helped her financially for years by paying her rent and giving her additional money at times because she has either been actively using and could not work or when she has a job she finds fault with everyone she works with and ends up quitting or gets fired.  Just recently she started a job that involved long hours spent with a trainer and went through two or three of them in no time.  We were talking by phone about the situation and I told her that I had noticed in our previous conversations she sounded very out of sorts and asked what was wrong.  She immediately got very angry with me and has not spoken to me since.  This shut down in communicating on her part has never really happened before.  At first it was a relief, then after a month my imagination started going wild but I finally received an email so I knew she was still alive.  About a week after the email I received another one asking if I could help her with her rent.  Shockingly,  I said no.  I have to admit this is one of the hardest things I have ever done.  I have always imagined if I didn't pay her rent she would end up homeless, and she might.  Who knows.  But, at the same time I have been realizing that if she does not have to face some consequences for being unemployed because she quits jobs on a whim or because she can't get along with people maybe, eventually she will realize she needs to get help with her BPD.  A few years back she was in DBT but she quit.  She didn't like her therapist and some of the others in group.  I encouraged her to go back but she never did. About a week ago I reached out by an email opening the door for further communication but her response was just to say that she was fine without elaborating.  So I realize all I can do is let go, give her space and hope that this lack of contact is exactly what she needs right now. 

What good news, HFhelp, that your daughter is employed again.  Please keep us informed of how things progress.  Thank you. 
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« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2018, 04:48:19 PM »

Everyone,

Thanks again for this board and your stories.  Over the last 4 weeks things have improved.  DD has stayed in weekly therapy, she stopped meds but is doing well, still working and supporting herself.  Our communication started with passive contact, cards through the mail.  Once my wife and I got into therapy and set boundaries for communication and small financial help things have improved. DD has started contacting us and we plan to fly up to see her on her 21st birthday.  We were too enmeshed in solving all her issues before. She has learned she is strong and can work things out for herself.  But we all still need family.  So we plan to stay in contact and when the next crisis comes up hope that we can remain calm, validate her emotions and let her solve her issues on her own. 

Our therapist always encouraged us to set up boundaries for communication and financial help.  But also for us not to calculate or make our responses or actions dependent on her possible reaction.  We need to validate her emotions ask questions but remain true to who we are as people in our actions.  He also gave this story to try to explain the relationship of being involved with a BPD personality.    If you have ever been to the beach and experienced a riptide or strong undercurrent try to pull you into the ocean.  You have to be prepared for the undertow of the ocean, the crisis of the BPD, if you can't handle the emotional undertow, stay on the sand and wait to go in the water when you are prepared. 

Maybe we got lucky, maybe we are in the calm before the next storm.  But everyday our DD can build upon self reliance we can all focus on ourselves and our own self improvement.  We are taking this time to be aware of our need to keep re reading "walking on eggshells" and practicing our responses.  It is tricky responding to BPD if not to keep them calm but mostly for our own mental health.

Good luck God Bless and I'll keep you posted.



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« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2018, 09:27:43 AM »

Hey HFHelp
This is brilliant news, I'm happy things have improved for you and your family and you get to fly up for her 21st 

You've worked hard learning the tools and lessons and working with your therapist, understanding you were enmeshed in helping solve, fix issues... .many of us learn here. It's wonderful your learning is paying off and your daughter is learning she is strong and can work things out for herself. Acknowledging you are both doing your very best is important.

On the no meds, my daughter was also off for a month recently, she's back to taking her meds, her own choice. Her psychiatrist has since given her the power to control her medications (4) increase intake when symptoms are really off the chart or mood drops and she becomes numb etc. 3 years ago her meds were locked up, it goes to show our children can work things out and in their own time.

If you've not read you may find Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder, Shari Manning offers invaluable skills for helping both our loved ones and ourselves. Its a favourite of mine. 

Calm before the next storm …... perhaps the period of calm between a storm/crisis may lengthen over time.

Thanks for letting us know your progress and sharing HFhelp, it means a lot to parents to hear how others are.

WDx
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« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2018, 03:55:19 PM »

Everyone,

Its been awhile. Our DD now 21, has been on a good run lately.  We did get to spend her 21st bday with her.  All went well and we have been talking with her via phone more often than text.  Texts always got us in trouble but it has been calm for months now.  She is still going to weekly therapy and not on any meds. Currently she is now getting overwhelmed and having some anxiety.  We are working with our boundaries and trying not to get dragged out into the rip tides of emotions.  It is tough because recently things are going well. We find ourselves dreading the next call or text because it could be the next storm.  We may be in early stages of one now.  We are trying to acknowledge the emotion and not problem solve for her.  Its challenging but time will tell. 

We have it easier than some, worse than others, but thankful we have another day to struggle through it all.

Thanks again for all your stories and support.
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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2018, 05:00:25 PM »

HFhelp

Thank you for updating us, it’s always good to hear when things have been going well.

You say that currently though, your daughter is now getting overwhelmed and having some anxiety, you don’t say when she actually came off meds, but I’m wondering whether there might be a link there.

I’m glad to hear that you are using the tools that are available here to try and maintain calm, but as you quite rightly acknowledge, it is a challenge. I hope that you manage to avert the next storm which you anticipate is brewing and please update us on your progress x 
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« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2018, 01:39:27 PM »

She came off the meds in April of this year.  I believe that it the transition off of them may have contributed to her rages.  But since she has been in therapy every week.  We do speak with her more often and less texting.

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« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2018, 01:53:37 PM »

Hi HFhelp

It's good to hear from you.   It's also been a bit of conundrum for me recently meds, so I understand you questioning, wondering... .when they are adults, sometime we don't get all the info  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

My DD's med's were halved 3 weeks before her first crisis in two years, that says something! Then again I read some of our children here successful come off meds,   which is what we all want.

What kind of therapy is your daughter receiving? Does she speak positively about it, if she shares with you?

How are you, your wife and family?

WDx
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« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2018, 12:37:53 PM »

My daughter stopped talking to me because I will not give her a down payment on a house.  She has to find another house to rent as the one she is living in has mold.  She is in a very affluent area and can not afford the rents.    Doesn’t want to leave the area because of the schools ad she is calling me an unfit mother/grandmother because I’m allowing them to live in a toxic environment.   So I’m ridden with guilt but in the meantime I can not afford a down payment on a house.  I’m giving her thousands over the course of years but as Im retired I can’t afford anymore.  She so mad that I said no she has now taken my grandchildren from me.   This is the second time she did this and last time was over money also.   I have to watch everything I say because you never know what’s going to set her off.  If we go out to dinner etc she has something to say.  My husband and I worked all our lives and we had hoped one day to enjoy our retirement but she makes it impossible.   My son and husband tell me I’m afraid of her and I am, because I knew if she gets mad enough this is what happens.   When she goes into one of her rages, she says such horrible things to me that I can’t believe how she can disrespect me like that.
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HFhelp

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
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« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2018, 03:59:48 PM »

My daughter does not share her therapy sessions with us.  I know she goes in every week.  I wish I could offer more help.

It is difficult with adult sons and daughters on when to support financially.  All I know is that you have to take care of yourself and they have to learn to stand on their own.  How that happens looks different for every situation and family.  But boundaries have to be set and respected from all before any progress can be made.  And as always that is easier said than done.

There are plenty of threads on this board of all kinds of boundaries, failure and success stories.  You can never give up but you don't always have to give in.


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wendydarling
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« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2018, 05:34:45 PM »

My daughter does not share her therapy sessions with us.  I know she goes in every week. 

Hi HFHelp

How are you, family? Where is the wave?

My daughter shares from time to time when it fits her, the skills, tools she's learnt through group sessions. It took time for her to reach out to me, her knowing I was doing my homework here certainly helped her and me. She uses her skills, knowledge to explain to me difficult situations she finds herself party to, not that she's caused them, she's working out how to respond, just like we learn.

They do have to stand on their own, find their entry point to doing that.

WDx

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Be kind, always and all ways ~ my BPD daughter
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