I feel trapped in a nasty and deteriorating relationship

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi,

I'm 68 years old, male, retired professional, with a cognitively-challenged adult child.  Over the past several years I have become convinced my spouse suffers from BPD, and in the last couple years found a therapist who seems to both understand BPD, and based on our discussions, agrees with my informal diagnosis.

My wife of 24 years is a highly successful professional who was raised in terribly dysfunctional family with a witch for a mother  I believe she truly does't mean to be hurtful, but she seems to filter everything through her personal lens.  Anything or anyone she disagrees with is wrong.  She has no personal friends, is totally estranged from her family of origin, and has "helped" me to lose meaningful contact with both my FOO and my oldest friends.  Over the years I have become someone I don't like, and I'm trying to get over that.

At age 67 I retired from a job I disliked, over her objections -- and without consulting her when I took the step.  She made some logical sense about working till 70, but I decided I wanted to do it while I still felt good.  That's one big issue -- she says she can never forgive me for doing that, especially since I refuse to apologize for it.  It's my life, and my gut told me to do it.  We can afford it.  Wife resents that, because she has made the most money over the past 20 years.  I had to give up my dream job when we moved for our son, and while wife has shot through the ranks, I never really found work I liked, or that paid anything near what she makes.  But I did a lot to support her -- it's sort of the reverse of the traditional successful husband/supportive wife.  

Now she wants to enter into a property agreement, dividing our money during our marriage and at death (and probably divorce).  This is a community property state, which means that the law says we share everything 50/50 unless we agree otherwise.  The kicker is that she told me she does not believe I should leave anything to anyone besides our two kids in this marriage -- as though in my life nothing we have accumulated is mine.  I won't do that.  For the reason that follows.

I have a daughter from my first marriage. My wife "hates" her because my wife feels disrespected by her and my whole family of origin.  I see it as my family does not know how to deal with my wife, but wife will not even consider any sort of effort to reconcile.

Now my daughter is pregnant with my first grandchild.  It's been a major issue around here.  First for me.  I want to become involved again with her, and to see the baby when it comes.  Wife theoretically has no problem with it, but I know it will be major when I commit any time to go visit.  If nothing else, because my ex-wife, daughter's mother, will be around.  And Wife will not come with me, and I'm glad.

I see no way out of this.  Wife hates the "new" me who now does some things without her approval (my therapist predicted that).  And I see things more and more clearly now, and realize what I have given up to stay married to her.  And I won't do that anymore.  

That's probably a lot of objective data.  Bottom line, I've been treated for anxiety, I feel like wife and I are from different planets, and I want to go back to mine.  Our son is the major sticking point -- he needs both of us if possible, with Wife's complex schedule and so on.

So I feel trapped in a nasty and deteriorating relationship.  But I also feel personally stronger than I have for years.  I've started working out at the Y (again over her objection) and am probably in the best physical shape I have been for years.  And I have my therapist.

So that's me.  

Hi again.

GL

[GL]

Hi,

I'm 68 years old, male, retired professional, with a cognitively-challenged adult child.  Over the past several years I have become convinced my spouse suffers from BPD, and in the last couple years found a therapist who seems to both understand BPD, and based on our discussions, agrees with my informal diagnosis.

My wife of 24 years is a highly successful professional who was raised in terribly dysfunctional family with a witch for a mother  I believe she truly does't mean to be hurtful, but she seems to filter everything through her personal lens.  Anything or anyone she disagrees with is wrong.  She has no personal friends, is totally estranged from her family of origin, and has "helped" me to lose meaningful contact with both my FOO and my oldest friends.  Over the years I have become someone I don't like, and I'm trying to get over that.

At age 67 I retired from a job I disliked, over her objections -- and without consulting her when I took the step.  She made some logical sense about working till 70, but I decided I wanted to do it while I still felt good.  That's one big issue -- she says she can never forgive me for doing that, especially since I refuse to apologize for it.  It's my life, and my gut told me to do it.  We can afford it.  Wife resents that, because she has made the most money over the past 20 years.  I had to give up my dream job when we moved for our son, and while wife has shot through the ranks, I never really found work I liked, or that paid anything near what she makes.  But I did a lot to support her -- it's sort of the reverse of the traditional successful husband/supportive wife.  

Now she wants to enter into a property agreement, dividing our money during our marriage and at death (and probably divorce).  This is a community property state, which means that the law says we share everything 50/50 unless we agree otherwise.  The kicker is that she told me she does not believe I should leave anything to anyone besides our two kids in this marriage -- as though in my life nothing we have accumulated is mine.  I won't do that.  For the reason that follows.

I have a daughter from my first marriage. My wife "hates" her because my wife feels disrespected by her and my whole family of origin.  I see it as my family does not know how to deal with my wife, but wife will not even consider any sort of effort to reconcile.

Now my daughter is pregnant with my first grandchild.  It's been a major issue around here.  First for me.  I want to become involved again with her, and to see the baby when it comes.  Wife theoretically has no problem with it, but I know it will be major when I commit any time to go visit.  If nothing else, because my ex-wife, daughter's mother, will be around.  And Wife will not come with me, and I'm glad.

I see no way out of this.  Wife hates the "new" me who now does some things without her approval (my therapist predicted that).  And I see things more and more clearly now, and realize what I have given up to stay married to her.  And I won't do that anymore.  

That's probably a lot of objective data.  Bottom line, I've been treated for anxiety, I feel like wife and I are from different planets, and I want to go back to mine.  Our son is the major sticking point -- he needs both of us if possible, with Wife's complex schedule and so on.

So I feel trapped in a nasty and deteriorating relationship.  But I also feel personally stronger than I have for years.  I've started working out at the Y (again over her objection) and am probably in the best physical shape I have been for years.  And I have my therapist.

So that's me.  

Hi again.

GL

[formflier]

I'm glad that your journey to deal with and informal diagnosis of BPD has led you to bpdfamily.  I want to assure you that we can help and that you have found a safe, anonymous place to work through big issues affecting your life. 

I'm aware of others on these boards that "balance" BPD and an adult child that needs special care.  I'll try to send them over this way.

Last (for now), it seems as though you understand the value of a therapist.  I have one as well and my life is immensely better for it and my family is much more stable (even though my wife would rather me not see a therapist)

Please come back and post often.  Look to the right and work through "choosing a path".  Post your thoughts about that exercise here and also discuss that with your T.

More later.

FF

[GTX]

Hey GL,
Good for you recognizing what is going on and for taking care of yourself.  Keep that up, especially seeing the therapist and focusing on your own health and fitness.

I would definitely be cautious about her desire to enter into a property agreement. That sounds like a trap to avoid.

One piece of information you did not include is whether she is close to retirement age herself.  Is she near your age or quite a bit younger? If she is near your age, is she considering retirement in the near future?

My wife and I are near the same age (a bit younger than you) but reaching a point where conversations about what a post-retirement life would look like. Our strained marriage has made that a difficult thing to discuss, mostly because I think she doesn't want to spend more time around me and would rather be on her own.  I have found that as long as I talk about wanting to spend post-retirement time with her doing things we both enjoy, it seems to help.  She could be jealous that you are suddenly free of work while she isn't.

[GL]

GTX -- she is ten years younger and her career is still blossoming.

And I too am cautious about the agreement.  Though sometimes I feel like I would pay almost anything to get out of this.  But my better mind prevails on that.  I have heard more than once that no one should enter into a property agreement if divorce is reasonably likely, because the other spouse can then file and have the property issue already resolved in her favor.  But I think that can be avoided.

One would expect her to be maybe jealous of my having more "free time" than her, but (1) we could afford for her to retire too but (2) she's a workaholic whose workload remains the same whether I work or not -- she now makes it a special point to do more work around the home, I suppose to make me feel guilty.

[formflier]

And I too am cautious about the agreement.  Though sometimes I feel like I would pay almost anything to get out of this.  

Have you discussed this agreement with your therapist?

Generally, it is best to not "fight" or "help" them on things like this.  If she wants an agreement, she can do the work to create it and present it to you... .and make her case.

Many times a pwBPD (short hand for person with BPD) will run out of steam, their feelings will change... .in other words... it won't happen.

Keep handing responsibility back to her to move HER IDEA forward.  Likely it won't go anywhere.

Thoughts?

FF

[GL]

FF -- she has told me what she wants in it and since I'm an attorney I can draft one; plus she really is very busy and would not in any event "forget" about it.  My failure to produce one thus far caused our latest blowup.

ironically, when I am thinking clearly,  I realize that i'm the one who needs this agreement.  First, if she actually did seek a divorce,  theoretically I wouldn't mind so long as I didn't get shafted, which I wouldn't if I draft the right agreement. It would bring at least a measure of rationality and calm.  (Though I would probably get more in the divorce without an agreement)

But there's a second reason I need the agreement.  As it stands now, if I should die first, almost all our property would automatically go to her, regardless of how it is titled (community property state).  So I couldn't leave anything to anybody, really, no matter what sort of will I wrote, because I don't have anything of my own right now (nor does she which really rankles her -- and was the original impetus to this whole idea -- because she's made it clear she doesn't trust me to be "smart" with "our" money if she dies first, e.g. she's afraid I will give a bit to my first daughter).   

This advantage to me became clear to me the other day when she was mad about the rough draft I did have (which would apply only on death) and said that she didn't think I should be entitled to leave anything to anyone outside of her and our kids.  So I need the agreement if I want to leave anything to my first daughter and first granddaughter.  And I do.

So really what it comes back is my unwillingness to do it the way she wants it, and I guess maybe an underlying hope that we don't end up in divorce, that some sort of miracle will happen.

Obviously it's kind of muddled for me, though this comment has helped me clarify things.  I did mention it to my therapist but we didn't really discuss it.

GL

[formflier]

OK... .just like doctors are sometimes the worst patients, lawyers are sometimes the worst clients.

I would encourage you to "privately" discuss and retain counsel for this matter.  You want a professional with no emotional attachment and specific legal knowledge and experience in these matters.  This is to explore how this agreement is helpful to you and if YOU should push for it.

I'm going to stick with my original view though, that you  keep "handing it back to her" if she is not happy with the agreement or the pace of things.

Don't explain it, just state that you are doing your part as your intuition guides you.  :)on't debate it.

As you said, she is busy... .so is unlikely to seek extra help.  

To clarify:  There is no magic formula on bpdfamily where you convince them to be happy and not try to argue about things.  The key is that YOU don't argue and that her creation of "a row" doesn't get her what she wants.

What do you think she "wants" out of this?


FF

[GL]

FF -

Abe Lincoln once said that "a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client."  So I know what you mean.  But it can be done.  And if I draft it right -- but honestly -- I can ensure that it works out best for me.

Why does she want the agreement?  She really shouldn't if she's not going to get a divorce, since her stated goal of stopping me from leaving anything to anyone would be achieved; but then she's gambling that she doesn't die first.  So maybe that's why.  It would also be to her advantage if it did come to divorce, since it could be used to limit my share of how it gets divided in the divorce; conversely, I would do better in a divorce without the agreement.  I can't believe she is trying to push me to write the agreement so she can get an easy divorce, but I'm always finding out that there is more -- or less -- to her than I thought. 

[formflier]

  But it can be done. 

But should it be done that way?

What is best?


FF

[Red5]

Hi,

I'm 68 years old, male, retired professional, with a cognitively-challenged adult child.  Over the past several years I have become convinced my spouse suffers from BPD,

My wife of 24 years is a highly successful professional who was raised in terribly dysfunctional family with a witch for a mother  I believe she truly does't mean to be hurtful, but she seems to filter everything through her personal lens.  Anything or anyone she disagrees with is wrong.  She has no personal friends, is totally estranged from her family of origin, and has "helped" me to lose meaningful contact with both my FOO and my oldest friends.  Over the years I have become someone I don't like, and I'm trying to get over that.

Wife hates the "new" me who now does some things without her approval (my therapist predicted that).  And I see things more and more clearly now, and realize what I have given up to stay married to her.  And I won't do that anymore.  

... .I feel trapped in a nasty and deteriorating relationship.  But I also feel personally stronger than I have for years.  

... .So that's me.  

Good afternoon GL,

Wow!, .we share many commonalities here,

I too am a "retired professional", and I also have an cognitively-challenged adult child, whom is dx as autistic, and also mild MR.

He is from my first marriage, and I am now his permanent guardian, he is my joy, and my happiness, and he will always live with me as long as I am on this earth.

We both have two each, other gown adult children, ranging from age 26 to 32, .some live close by, and some many states further away.

More... .I have suspected for about fifteen months now that my wife (#2, prev; divorced) is BPD.

We have been together for about eleven years, and now married for about eight, .it has been very "explosive", constant fighting, and conflict.

As I read down through your posts, its like I am reading about myself.

Boy, the stories I could tell you, .I have learnt so much since arriving here January was a year ago,

I just wanted to say welcome, and also to tell you that this is a good and safe place to come and learn, vent, and seek help in navigating through this pbd phenomena.

Most of our fights, conflict has been centered around my son (S31 special needs)... .

And to add more, .my u/BPDw (undiagnosed BPD wife) has stage four cancer... .she used to have an active career, but she resigned to be able to handle her treatments, so now she is completely dependant upon me.

There is so much to learn about this BPD, so many "catch phrases", .acronyms, and means to explain/terms as to what we are all dealing with here.

I'll will throw one out now, and that's that I am a "caretaker"... .and I also have reached a point of apathy in my own marriage, although I do still feel empathy for her, and my belief system will not allow me to leave, or separate from her... .its been a rough eight years, so much has been destroyed.

I have all but given up so many times now... .but I am still here.

There are good times, and then more bad times... .as we know our sig-others will cycle up and down, and then split us, and there is always the "black and white" thinking process, and as you describe; the... ."she seems to filter everything through her personal lens; and anything or anyone she disagrees with is wrong".

My only real concern (constant) is the care of my S31, although I (do) do what I can to support my u/BPDw, and stand beside her; support her, .when she will let me;... .but as we know, it comes and goes does it not; I call this cycling, .as she splits, and behaves as she does (negatively) iaw; BPD behaviors; she will push me away, and "punish" me... .how in the world can you have a healthy relationship (empathy/love) with someone who is constantly battling you, deriding you, .acting out;... .even thought that person is dependent on you, its a conundrum to say the least, and then;... .she will split me to "white knight" again... .the cycle seems perpetual.

It is utterly exhausting, but at least I now have a "reason" as to why this has been happening... .all the never ending disagreements, fights, and down right nastiness all these years.

As you say;... ." I feel trapped in a nasty and deteriorating relationship.  But I also feel personally stronger than I have for years"... .me2, (sadly).

I am tracking your current estate (legal) issue that is ongoing, and listening, .

So, .welcome GL, and please tell us more as you can.

Regards, Red5