Got Counter Offer

[toomanydogs]

Well... .
Got the counter offer to my settlement offer from 2 months ago.
First, I should mention I'm "protected" by a prenup.
My settlement offer asked for significantly more than the prenup for several reasons: the prenup I signed waived my right to spousal support--not allowed in my state. And I waived my right to retirement benefits, also not allowed in my state.
I'm in my mid-60s, unable to support myself or work to better my financial situation.
The marriage was 10 years.
So, my STBX offered less than the prenup, almost cut the amount in half, let me keep my own house that I owned (still owe mortgage), said he'd pay appropriate interest on the balance but that's a mystery. I have no idea what that means. I could re-home the animals, and whatever wasn't purchased by the trust I could keep. Don't know what that means either.
I told my L then let's go to court
TMD

[formflier]

Why not counter?  As in the counter-counter offer... .and obviously send the message that you are expediting the court date as well... .since you are far far apart.

My guess is that they will get "serious"... or "more serious"... the closer you get to court.

I think it is in your best interests to have an offer on the table... (or I should say you have given them an offer) they can sign off on... or counter.

Big picture... .perhaps drop your original offer by a token amount.

FF

[ForeverDad]

At least now you have the temp retroactive support so bills are getting paid.  The pressure is reduced and you're not frantic in desperation.  So now you can be more practical and less emotional (catastrophizing) with the next steps.

[toomanydogs]

Why not counter?  As in the counter-counter offer... .and obviously send the message that you are expediting the court date as well... .since you are far far apart.

My guess is that they will get "serious"... or "more serious"... the closer you get to court.

I think it is in your best interests to have an offer on the table... (or I should say you have given them an offer) they can sign off on... or counter.

Big picture... .perhaps drop your original offer by a token amount.



FF

Hey FF,
How are you?
Kinda shaking my head this morning. I don't like thinking of myself as reactive; however, I did react to the counter offer by immediately suggesting court. The morning after I received the counter offer, I contacted L, told her I meant settlement facilitation or mediation (not completely clear on the difference).
I also indicated that I didn't think that this counter offer was a good-faith offer, and I didn't think it required an offer; however, if I were wrong, or if she disagreed, I asked her to:
 
1. Wait until June to respond. I want to ensure my interim goes on without interruption. I have no faith that my STBX or his family will do as the Court directs.
2. Drop my original offer by approximately 10%, but... .
3. Request half of his retirement benefits.

This is challenging, and I keep reminding myself to breathe. Deep, deep breath, TMD. 

TMD

[toomanydogs]

At least now you have the temp retroactive support so bills are getting paid.  The pressure is reduced and you're not frantic in desperation.  So now you can be more practical and less emotional (catastrophizing) with the next steps.

You know, FD,
I'm going to be honest here, I am actually continuing to catastrophize, resulting in my feeling anxious a great deal of the time and being unable to sleep.
Kinda goes like this: What if they (STBX and his family) stop giving me interim? What if they kick me out of my house? What if what if what if?
My response to the 'what ifs' is to remind myself to breathe, get in touch with my T or friends or family. Walk myself back from the edge.
Part of the catastrophizing is a result of what my STBX's family has done in the past, and some is a result of my own tendencies. I can control my tendencies--not always easy, but generally always possible.
So to combat the anxiety, today I'm getting together my daughter for a bit of girl-time, pedis and whatnot. And then on Sunday, I'm heading off on a vacation that fell into my lap--just had to pay airfare.
Happy Friday!
TMD

[formflier]

Yes... .you are catastrophizing... .and it is completely understandable and natural for you to do that.

I have a wise friend (fellow Naval Aviator) whose favorite phrase in tense time is "let's wind the clock... " 

Me... being Mr Checklist... would suggest this course of action, next time you get crap from the other side

1.  Come here... post and vent.
2.  Give it a day or two to settle in and then communicate with your L about what you actually will counter with.  Rather than telling her what to do... .why not give her your intent and ask for her suggestions.

Intent could be... .  "counter just lower enough for it to be legitimate, yet let them know we aren't budging much."

Important second point

You are right to push for going to court as soon as possible.  I also wouldn't skip any other steps.  This is more of a strategic move on your part, which may also help your tactics.

Why?

Especially in high conflict/dysfunctional situations... .the settlement talks rarely get serious until court.  Many times on these boards... .they literally happen on the courthouse steps... .or in a recess after court has started.

Both sides understand that there is risk in court.  Your job is to make them more afraid of that risk that you are.  I think you have solid arguments.

TMD... .I really enjoy our posts and our PMs (it's been a bit since we caught up)... .remember... I'm on your side and I'm pretty sure I've said this before.

You are way too nice  My guess is that just about anyone would love hanging out with you, especially if they like animals and such things.

"Nice" is not your friend in this court case.  I need you to find your inner troll... .I need you to move under the bridge and eat some succulent crazy a$$ family trust... ."

FF

[toomanydogs]

Yes... .you are catastrophizing... .and it is completely understandable and natural for you to do that.

Thank you, FF.  I'm having a bad day, and I keep trying to give myself pep talks, so it really helps to hear you tell me that it's natural to do that.

I'm feeling really vulnerable today and sad and betrayed.

I have a wise friend (fellow Naval Aviator) whose favorite phrase in tense time is "let's wind the clock... "  Love this.

Me... being Mr Checklist... would suggest this course of action, next time you get crap from the other side

1.  Come here... post and vent.
2.  Give it a day or two to settle in and then communicate with your L about what you actually will counter with.  Rather than telling her what to do... .why not give her your intent and ask for her suggestions.

Intent could be... .  "counter just lower enough for it to be legitimate, yet let them know we aren't budging much."

This makes sense.

You are right to push for going to court as soon as possible.  I also wouldn't skip any other steps.  This is more of a strategic move on your part, which may also help your tactics.

Why?

Especially in high conflict/dysfunctional situations... .the settlement talks rarely get serious until court.  Many times on these boards... .they literally happen on the courthouse steps... .or in a recess after court has started.

This is what happened with interim. No one did anything until late the day before. STBX's L even filed a motion to vacate my request for interim; he maintained my lawyer & I hadn't returned all the documents he'd requested. Found out he's in his 80s. I don't know if he's senile or conniving or what. Just know I'm not too fond of him.

Both sides understand that there is risk in court.  Your job is to make them more afraid of that risk that you are.  I think you have solid arguments.

I think I have solid arguments, as well. Today, because I'm a little tired and because my STBX has made plans to come to the house to pick up his stuff. Only took him 10 months to get anything. Anything.
He gave me a list of things he wants (funneled through the two lawyers), and he wants the wedding album, and he wants the poster from a short movie he and I made. I told my L, these were going to be an issue for me. My STBX has spent the past 10 months painting me black, telling everyone ours had been a toxic relationship, and he regretted our entire time together.
Given all that, I see no reason why he should have either; however, perhaps when we go to court, he can have one, I can have the other. Maybe.
Seriously, why divorce me and then want the wedding album? I don't get it.

TMD... .I really enjoy our posts and our PMs (it's been a bit since we caught up)... .remember... I'm on your side and I'm pretty sure I've said this before.

You are way too nice  My guess is that just about anyone would love hanging out with you, especially if they like animals and such things.

"Nice" is not your friend in this court case.  I need you to find your inner troll... .I need you to move under the bridge and eat some succulent crazy a$$ family trust... ."

FF

Thank you, FF. Emotionally I'm drained today. I get worn out needing to fight and stay clear-headed. And then I don't sleep well.
You have no idea what your posts mean to me. Yes, I am really nice. People use that word about me a lot, and they also use the word 'funny,' and right now I want the funny TMD, not the nice one.
And I want that troll. And I want/need to dig down even deeper to access that warrior in me.
One more note: A trip to Mexico fell into my lap two days ago. Unfortunately, the trip fell into my lap because one of my many sisters wasn't able to keep the reservation; it's a time share. So I am going. With a friend and her daughter. I'd take my own daughter, but she still doesn't have a passport.
I will be away from all this upheaval for a week. I really need the time away, and when I return my daughter, granddaughter, and I will have girl-time at one of the resorts out here. Order room service and sit by the pool.
I need to heal, FF. This period in my life has ripped at my soul. I feel sad one minute, angry the next, then betrayed, then angry again. It's exhausting.
I am blessed to have the family I have--my children, grandchildren, and my sisters; and I'm blessed to have my friends and this board.
And I'm incredibly fortunate to be able to head out to Mexico, be on the ocean, drink Sangria, walk the beach, maybe write.
Thanks again,  
TMD

[formflier]

Unless you really want to keep them... agree to give him those things, in exchange for moving forward on a procedural issue or something like that.

Take digital photos or whatever record keeping you want.

Would I advise giving them to him "for free"... .just because he wants them... ."effe no"... .

Remember... .find your troll... .

Ask your L what things they can do to move things forward... and use that as a condition to get them.

What else does he want from the house?

FF

[toomanydogs]

What else does he want from the house?

FF

He wants an arcade game that I sold; he thought it was vintage, it wasn't. I told my L when I had to sell it, and I revealed what I sold it for and said I'll give him half.

He wants his private photos. No problem.

He wants his computers. I sold one of those, as well. My L knew, and I'll give him half the money.

He wants his cell phones, iPods, Kindles, posters.

Regarding the movie poster & wedding album: Yeah, I really do want those. The thing with the movie is that he wrote an idea, kind of a short story. I turned it into a short script. He wanted no part of that process. I worked with a producer to cast the thing, get a director, art director, etc. He wanted no part of that process. I arranged scheduling. Again, he wanted no part--said "his condition" prevented him from taking part.
Then the last day of shooting, he swoops down on the set, tries to take over. I try to ease the situation. I manage. (I am pretty nice, like you said. I know how to soothe people, how to compromise.)
Then we go into editing. He wants input there. Fine. He should probably focus on editing. It is a solo undertaking generally.
Then the movie is released. It does well in the circuits. Suddenly, it's "his" movie. He promotes as if he were the auteur. In a movie, you generally credit the director first.
Anyway, I did the publicity. I did so much on that movie.
And now he maintains I've stolen from him; he offers me less than the prenup; he says the past 10 years have been a total dead zone.
No. I want that poster.
And I want the wedding album. Or, if he gets it, I'll first cut out the pics of myself and my family.
I guess, FF, the buried anger I have regarding my STBX's use of his "condition" when it suited him is bubbling to the surface.
I'm kind of like, well, okay, you hated the marriage. Cool. You divorced. Your prerogative. But you don't get to pretend now that the wedding album means anything to you but a way of taking even more from me.
It is possible that with time, I will soften (weaken?) and let him have one or the other, but, this man and his family have treated me with such disregard that I honestly don't want my STBX to have pics of me looking happy.
I will ask my L what we and what they can do to move this forward. As usual, good advice. Thanks.
And it is truly possible that if STBX will provide a reasonable counter offer in exchange for the album or the poster, I'll soften.
Thanks,
TMD

[formflier]

An "above" reasonable counter offer quickly

The other things of his... that are clearly his, I'd get those together... .yet do it in exchange for something "you want" from him or his side.

Remember... .nice people do nice things.  Trolls act like trolls  Find your inner troll.

FF