Neither of us is emotionally healthy and I will never get my own needs met

[MaybeMaybeNot]

Hi, this my first post in this forum.

First, I want to say that I am not here to judge anybody. I was in short relationship with a woman, and our relationship was extremely dysfunctional. One thing I know for sure: Neither of us is emotionally healthy. That´s the fact. Water seeks its own level as the saying goes. I also want to write all of this to clear my head. This will be quite a long post I think, so if you have patience to read it all I want to thank you already.

So, I was dating a woman. Very extraordinary woman to say at least. She is 27 girl from Argentina, and she works as a nurse.I am from Finland, so it was a long distance relationship. She did not have many friends. As a matter of fact she told me that she does not like people that much, and she told me that she does not like to be around other people. She is very obsessive about her weight, and I was little worried about that. I told her that maybe she should see psychologist because of that. She told me that no, they just tell her to eat. She described herself this way (these are her words): spoiled, negative and complaining. Still, she was very fun person to be around. There was something very childlike and innocent in her. We both have kind of black sense of humor. We connected very well, and we had very nice conversations. There was still something that bothers me a lot. She told me in our first dates (I do not recall if it was first, second or third) that her greatest fear is that I will disappear. She also told me that her father left her family before she was born (or when she was baby, I do not recall) I told her that I am not going anywhere, but uncertainty is part of dating, and you never know how things goes. She told me that for her it is very difficult to tolerate uncertainty. She also told me that she really has no patience. She was very open about her things. She also told me that she can be moody at times, and she asked if I can handle that. I told her yes, but unfortunately I dont think I was aware of what that really ment.

The second thing that bothers me a lot is that in our second date she told me Im perfect. We chatted in whatsapp 2 months before we actually met, but she did not really know me. How can she say something like that when she does not even know me? Was it nothing but projection of her idealized fantasy of white knight who will come to save her? I spent two weeks in her home town. I do not want tell exactly where, because I still want to protect her identity. We became extremely close very fast. I have never been as happy I was when I was with her in Argentina. It was beautiful. Unfortunately, it was just a dream. A fantasy.

The problems started when I returned to my home in Finland. I saw her becoming very distant. And I started to panic, because for me this is a clear sing of push-pull pattern. I had a terrible feeling that something is really wrong. I confronted her about this, and I have to admit I was little dramatic. She told me first she saw me distant, but maybe it was her. She has been very busy at work, and dealing with her own "crazy stuff" as she said. She also told me that she was feeling blue. She said that it does not give her right to act in a way she has been acted. She asked me if we can talk about this in skype when she gets home. I thought it was a good idea.
When we talked in skype, she was really annoyed. I told her that I want to know what is going on in her mind, and most importantly, in her heart. She answered angrily "nothing!". I asked with confusion "nothing?". I got not answer. She was very angry that I even wanted to talk about these things. She told me that maybe I am depressed because I acted like I acted. For me all of this came out of nowhere. I did not understand this reaction at all. What did I do wrong? Was I too needy? Too clingy? I was shocked. I conforted her about this again in the next day. I told her that because to me it seems that I am putting much more effort in this relationship than she is, I want to take some distance. To be honest, I really thought she would be happy about that. But, she started crying. She asked me if I want to let her wait if I find somebody I can connect better. This reaction was, again, completely unexpected. I brought my concerns about the relationship on the table. Again, she did not want to talk about these things. She blamed me that I am too negative and I should be more positive. Again, I felt misunderstood, unheard,invisible and unimportant.
Still, I sucked it up and we moved forward.

When I was visiting her, we were planning my return in Jan or Feb. Now, week after our fight, she told me that she has to work in double shifts this time. I said that I will not change my own plans and I will go somewhere else and come to see her when she is less busy. Guess what happened? You got that right. More blaming and anger. This time she accused me that for I only want to go somewhere warm (she knew I hate winter) and it is "obvious" that I am not coming to see her. The day after, I tried to propose a compromise. I asked her if she can talk with her boss, so maybe she can have more free time in late feb and I can delay my trip in 1,5 months. In my head this looked a solution that makes both of us happy. And I was so wrong. She was really angry and told me that "do you think I havent already done that?". Then she started playing victim and said that she was silly because she thought that I want to see her. Now it was my turn to get angry, because for me this was super manipulative and ABUSIVE. And I do not tolerate this kind of behavior, no matter if you have BPD or not. So I called her out. I told her that first she cancels our plans and think it is okay and now she is PLAYING THE VICTIM. She just said that she is not playing victim, she is just saying how she feels.

Soon after that I told her that I want to break up. I realized that I will never get my own needs met in this relationship. It was all about her and her needs. I was so full of her bs. Still, I understand I also played some role in this relationship. I took full responsibility of my own controlling behavior and sent her two apologies where I told her that I did wrong when I treated her like she was a child. I also told her that I was manipulative and dishonest as well. I told her that I treated her disrespectfully (I tried my best) and I did not love her in a way she deserves to be loved. Couple of month later I sent her another email where I told her that I have been thinking of her and I am now in counceling because I want to understand what was my part in the failure of our relationship, and what is hers. I also told her that the fact that I never see her again breaks my heart and I wish her all the best. How she reacted? You got that right, with anger. She told me not to contact her again, and in her eyes I am a person who only cares about himself. She told me that it is very selfish to send her apologies because in her eyes I only want to feel better about myself. She told me that it does not help if I apologize "1000 times" when the harm is already done. This is super black and white thinking in my opinion. Of course I wanted to feel better about myself, but I also wanted to validate her hurt feelings so she can also feel better about herself. I told her that I did not want her to take all the blame (because I knew already that she might do that). I also told her that maybe she will take responsibility of her own wrong doings, but thats not really my business. I said good bye. I also said that I am happy that our paths crossed, and I hope we both learned something valuable. I also told her that I will always be grateful because of that.

Of course I still care about her. Unfortunately she sees me "perfect" or "a person who only cares about himself". I do not think there are any gray area. She never ever took any responsibility of what happened in our relationship. When I think about that all of the people in this world she hates herself the most I become sad. I mean really sad. And there is nothing I can do. So, I will just leave her alone and hope all the best for her. Thanks for reading.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi MaybeMaybeNot and

Thanks for sharing your story with us.  It's really well written and I can see that you're very self aware, which is commendable.  I'm sorry to hear about how things worked out and am really glad that you found us.  How long was the r/s altogether and how long since you split up?  Would you want to try to re establish a r/s of some kind with her or are you seeking to detach and heal now?

The membership here can relate to what you've experienced with these behaviours, and whilst we can't diagnose here, it does sound as though some of her behaviours would indicate traits of BPD.  How are you feeling about things at the moment?  We are here to support you and there is a wealth of reliable information here, plus reading and involving yourself in other discussions can be hugely beneficial.  I'll look forward to hearing more from you.

Love and light x

[MaybeMaybeNot]

For some reason my screenname has changed . Strange. Anyways, thank you for your support. Right now I feel bad. I am sad, and I feel empty. We were physically together for 2 weeks and we knew each other 3 months in total, but still, everything looked so good at the beginning until I began to talk about what I want or need. Maybe she was looking for a personal slave or something. The reason why I am stuck is that I can´t put the pieces together and have my closure so I can move on.
One thing scares me: Her messenger name. I do not know, but for me it looked quite revealing.

Part of me is fantasizing about having a good conversation about why things went how they went. I just think she is living in complete denial and my wish is nothing but fantasy. I do not really believe in miracles. To be honest, I do not feel what to believe anymore.

[Harley Quinn]

Things progressed really fast and you clearly bonded with her in a short time, which is common in a new r/s with a BPD sufferer.  The idealisation stage can be very heady and intoxicating, and then unfortunately the devaluation begins at some point, which is confusing and I'm unsurprised you feel as you do.  It's hard to understand what went on after things were going so well.  We know how difficult that is and I feel for you.

When was the last time you spoke and said goodbye?  Did she respond?

I'm wondering if you had the conversation with her if she reached out would you consider trying again or do you feel that you are done with the r/s after what you've experienced in the time you knew her?  Take some time to think about that if you need to.  It can be hard to know what we're feeling or what we'd want to do when so many emotions are coming up.  Whatever your thought on that, we can support you here and you will find others who can relate. 

Love and light x

[MaybeMaybeNot]

It is possible that when she starts to feel really depressed she can reach out. This is not the first time I am involved in situation like this, and last time the woman reached out after 2 years (and I knew instantly that she wants something so I did not respond).

Honestly, I do not know what I do if she reaches out. I don´t think it will happen, but it is possible as I said. If I will talk with her, I have to be extremely careful. These people can be dangerous because they can get through your defenses easily by their manipulation tactics and it can get very ugly. Fortunately I am here in Finland and she is in Argentina. Well, this is not her first long distance relationship and she told me that her ex "ghosted" her. Still, there was many holes in her story and she did not take any responsibility of that break up either, she just said "maybe he was afraid of love". She is super good playing that innocent victim role.

So my plan is to talk with her, but I will also be extremely guarded and I will keep my boundaries. She will reveal herself, I just have to find out if she actually takes any responsibility or is she just faking. I am well aware of her most common manipulation tactics (blame game, gaslighting and playing the victim) so I think I will be okay.
But I will never, ever meet her again if she does not get help for herself.

[MaybeMaybeNot]

Oh, and she did not reply to my last email. This happened about month ago. We broke up about 6 months ago.

[MaybeMaybeNot]

The worst part is that I feel like a shadow of my former self. Maybe this is some kind of trauma bond and my own abandonment trauma has activated as well. The marriage of my parents were extremely unstable and chaotic, and both of them were alcoholics. The thing that scares me the most right now is that I will never, ever recover and I end up being alone and isolated the rest of my life. This scares the ___ out of me. Well, I am in counceling now but I am not very optimistic. I have already been in schema therapy for 7 years and I still end up in relationship like this. I am afraid that I am broken beyond repair. The critical inner voice wont leave me alone, and many times I feel that maybe it was all my fault after all. But, in many levels I know that this is not the case. This is like addiction, maybe I am addicted to emotional pain, who knows. And maybe this woman likes to hurt other people.  It just so damn difficult to believe that somebody could be like that. It is much easier to believe that it was my fault after all. But as I said, I know it is not the truth. Anyways, this obsessive cycle goes on and on in my head and I can not stop. It is like a nightmare, and I just want to wake up. But I can´t.

I used to be optimistic before this experience. Actually first time in my life I had a feeling that my life has purpose and direction. I was content, and I had many interesting things going on in my life. Now I have motivation for absolutely nothing. I still force myself to go to gym, because I know just staying at home will make things worse.

If somebody else has experienced this, I would really like to hear how you went through this hell.

[Harley Quinn]

It's good that you're getting to the gym.  Do you have any other self care going on?  At times like this it's vital that we take extra care of ourselves.  You're experiencing a lot of emotions and they need to be given opportunity to come up and be accepted then they can pass.  Setting aside time to allow yourself to do this is equally important.  Try to surround yourself with others who love and value you, like friends and family.  Connecting with others is really beneficial to improve your mood and gathering support around you will make a big difference.  It is really hard, painful and confusing.  We understand and many of us have had these same feelings.  Things can and do get better.  Whether you rekindle some form of r/s with her in the future or not, building yourself back up to full strength again now will be a win win situation for you.  It takes time, but you'll get there.  We will walk with you.   

If you continue to feel low it would be worth speaking to a doctor, as many of us experience depression after a breakup with a pwBPD and noticing the signs is an opportunity to seek help and support.  It's really positive that you've reached out here.  I'm sure others will chime in.

Love and light x

[MaybeMaybeNot]

If I am going to rekidle with her (if it is even possible) I want to do it for right reasons. Right now I feel like she is my drug and I need my fix. But I can not use her like that. She is human being, not an object. It is a form of abuse and control. It is no coincidence that the people with traits of codependecy and the people with the traits of BPD tend to find each other. The first one wants to be the rescuer, and the other wants to be rescued.

[Mutt]

Hi Maybemaybenot,  

The second thing that bothers me a lot is that in our second date she told me Im perfect. We chatted in whatsapp 2 months before we actually met, but she did not really know me. How can she say something like that when she does not even know me? Was it nothing but projection of her idealized fantasy of white knight who will come to save her?

This is super black and white thinking in my opinion.

A pwBPD get attached very quickly it’s just a part of splitting remember that a pwBPD can’t integrate your good and bad parts so she’s only had a history with you for a couple of days there’s no chance for her to see or perceive imperfections.

I can relate with how you feel when my exuBPDw left I felt the grief, anger and sadness I had broken up before but there was pain there that was old and familiar that worried me because I didn’t want to feel pain from different fronts at the same time it would be too much.

Ill out it this way I felt the pain of the break up and pain that was unresolved from FOO. I didn’t resolve it for a reason

What you’re really saying is that you haven’t spoken to her for six months, you felt like she gave you direction a reason to get out of bed in the morning, you’re pushing yourself to get into the gym and I get the feeling that you want to talk to her to see what she’s been up to, maybe try to get closure from her.

You’re not going to get judged at bpdfamily, we’re all here in a similar journey to help each other and gain perspective. We’re here for you and we’ll walk you.

Right now I feel like she is my drug and I need my fix. But I can not use her like that. She is human being, not an object. It is a form of abuse and control. It is no coincidence that the people with traits of codependecy and the people with the traits of BPD tend to find each other. The first one wants to be the rescuer, and the other wants to be rescued.

You seem knowledgeable about the r/s dynamics with a pwBPD I think that you’ve got the right idea you’re not setting expectations but you haven’t completely closed the door. Doimg some self work is a good idea.  

[CautiousHope]

The worst part is that I feel like a shadow of my former self. Maybe this is some kind of trauma bond and my own abandonment trauma has activated as well. The marriage of my parents were extremely unstable and chaotic, and both of them were alcoholics. The thing that scares me the most right now is that I will never, ever recover and I end up being alone and isolated the rest of my life. This scares the ___ out of me. Well, I am in counceling now but I am not very optimistic. I have already been in schema therapy for 7 years and I still end up in relationship like this. I am afraid that I am broken beyond repair. The critical inner voice wont leave me alone, and many times I feel that maybe it was all my fault after all. But, in many levels I know that this is not the case. This is like addiction, maybe I am addicted to emotional pain, who knows. And maybe this woman likes to hurt other people.  It just so damn difficult to believe that somebody could be like that. It is much easier to believe that it was my fault after all. But as I said, I know it is not the truth. Anyways, this obsessive cycle goes on and on in my head and I can not stop. It is like a nightmare, and I just want to wake up. But I can´t.

I used to be optimistic before this experience. Actually first time in my life I had a feeling that my life has purpose and direction. I was content, and I had many interesting things going on in my life. Now I have motivation for absolutely nothing. I still force myself to go to gym, because I know just staying at home will make things worse.

If somebody else has experienced this, I would really like to hear how you went through this hell.

Hi MaybeMaybeNot, I'm sorry to hear that you're going through all of this, it's a lot to process and I know how you can feel like you've let yourself down after working on something for a long time and then falling into a familiar pattern.

I would like to reach out and say that I can relate to some of what you've said here. I also grew up in a dysfunctional home with an alcoholic parent and as a result I have complex PTSD/CPTSD which can look similar to BPD at a glance. It's actually very different, but I have learned that being in a close relationship with a person who has habits like the ones you see with BPD turned out to be incredibly triggering for me until I realized what was happening and how to protect myself from that. I believed I had "gotten past" that part of my life where I was attracted to people who might abuse me, and then I found myself swept up in this chaos because he was so different from the narcissists I had been drawn to in the past. I was so angry at myself. I felt like I would never learn, that this is a pattern I would always be doomed to repeat. But then I took a step back and I studied the relationship objectively and I realized how far I've come and that I need to trust myself and give myself credit to use the tools that I've learned in years of therapy and the healthy habits that I've built in myself. I get something from this relationship that I crave, a sort of kinship, someone who can relate to the darker parts of my mind. And for the first time, I feel in control, and that's a good feeling. I can trust myself. I can give myself credit for my progress and accept that some parts of me still have some growing to do and that's okay, we all do. Sometimes those of us who have experienced abuse or relationships trauma will fall into these familiar patterns over and over, it's common and it can take some time to learn our own limits, but it's a natural behavior to seek out what is familiar. Lean into your therapy and trust your progress, there will be bumps in the road, but you are not back at square one as much as you may feel that you are.

You say that you used to be optimistic, and I can understand how in the depths of it, it can be easy to lose that hope. But I wonder if you might feel a little bit better if you reflect on that and why you had some optimism and what the big picture looks like to you. Have you made improvements? Big or small? Have you changed some habits or ways of thinking that may be hard to think of right now, but perhaps you are so upset at the moment that it's hard to remember them? You can give yourself credit for those positive things, no matter how big or small. I think it's wonderful that you're still going to the gym, that's a very healthy habit and it's hard to motivate ourselves when we are depressed or dealing with a blow to a core wound like this, and I am proud of you. I hope you are, too.

I hope this helps a little bit, you aren't alone.  

[MaybeMaybeNot]

I think that you’ve got the right idea you’re not setting expectations but you haven’t completely closed the door.

Well, to me it looks like she has closed the door so my hands are tied. To me when somebody tells you she is doing very well now and asks you not to contact her again it is pretty final. And I promised her that I won´t bother her again. Can not really blame her. I was the one who left, and she has abandonment issues already.

Thank you for your support people! It is needed and appreciated at this moment.

[Mutt]

Never say never if someone moves on usually they don’t have to say it well because they’ve moved on.

[MaybeMaybeNot]

Well, I was talking about this with somebody who help people to repair broken relationships as a full time job. He told me that the door is not closed forever, but if I want to clean this mess I have to go back to Argentina and talk with her face to face. But not now, months later. Well, at least she did not block me or anything in social media (I removed her from my friends when we broke up).

Going back to Argentina is not by any means out of question. It would actually be very bold (or creepy) move and maybe she would agree to meet me. Our time there was good, and even after one fight (I knew this was her abandonment issue and my little bit inconsiderate behavior so I knew how to handle it). If she, indeed has BPD, we would probably end up in another dead end. So I don´t know.  Because I have ADD, I sometimes say things I regret later. No name calling or something extremely respectful (we never did that to each other). I always apology afterwards. This is the email she sent. I have removed some not so important stuff from the beginning. Well, you can say that she is not feeling indifferent  :

if I think about it now our
relationship would have never worked. We were just to different maybe.

Don't get offended by this.but you're a person who only cares about
yourself. From my point of view at least. Maybe you should work with
that. To give an example. You don't really care about what I feel and
you contact me anyway just to feel better yourself. In this moment I'm
doing very well .but what if I wasn't? Think about it maybe.and maybe
think before you say some things sometimes. That way you won't hurt
people. Because it doesn't really matter if you apologize a thousand
times later . The harm is done .

[Mutt]

To give an example. You don't really care about what I feel and
you contact me anyway just to feel better yourself.

I can relate with blurting things out I have ADHD traits from anxiety if I do role reversal and even though I have good intentions i can sound very invalidating with how I talk. I can’t suggest for you to go and talk to her now or not I would suggest on working on validation.

You might have other communications where she’s hinting at other things but she gave you a pretty big clue - validation is huge for a pwBPD and other people in your life that are highly sensitive, you don’t even have to be a highly sensitive person to appreciate being g heard. Everyone wants to be heard and validation does that by acknowledging that other person’s feelings are heard, respected and important.

[MaybeMaybeNot]

validation is huge for a pwBPD and other people in your life that are highly sensitive, you don’t even have to be a highly sensitive person to appreciate being g heard. Everyone wants to be heard and validation does that by acknowledging that other person’s feelings are heard, respected and important.

For me this is all apology is about. Validating the hurt feelings of the other person and taking responsibility of my own mistakes. After her email I sent her an email that I do not completely agree with her about me being completely selfish altough I understand why she feels this way. I told her that I did not want her to think that its all her fault (because I knew already that she may think this way deep down) I also reminded her that in relationships both people make mistakes. I also remind her that some of the responsibility of our failed relationship belongs to her. This is the dead end I am talking about. She has never even hinted that she did anything wrong. It is this blame game and playing the victim all the time. Because of this it seems to be impossible to connect this person at this point, and if I do try she sees that as selfish, evil act. In perfect world both of us would take a deep look into ourselves and then talk about how we could have acted differently. In this real world I do not think it will ever happen. Maybe I want different kind of people in my life. People who take responsibility of their actions.

Well, the only way for communication right now is no communication at all. If she wants me to go for good, I will respect that.

[MaybeMaybeNot]

I am also really tired of her accusing me of being selfish when in reality it was her way or no way. It was me who was making huge financial efforts to even get there from my country. Did she ever said that she appreciate this? Of course not. Probably she was taking me granted. This is unfair, and I won´t just suck it up. She has a lot of good qualities but this entitlement is something I have very hard time to tolerate or understand. She and her needs are not the center of  the universe, and in relationship both parties give and receive pretty much equally.

EDIT: And of course I feel very guilty that I failed to give her what she needs. Still I know its not all my fault like she seem to think. Well, she knows I am in counceling (she told me once she is not ready for therapy because she needs her pain) so maybe if I change myself there is a chance to talk in future. But, as I said before the best way to communicate that change at this is not to communicate at all.

[Mutt]

I also remind her that some of the responsibility of our failed relationship belongs to her

I hear the frustration in your post I had a uBPDw at one point and everything revolves around her and I was blamed for everything too. That being said how you think and feel is not necessarily the same way that she thinks and feels.

Think of it this way and I’m using Skip’s words here: a r/s is like a tennis court with thousands of transactions that go between both people. Own what’s on your side of the court which is what you’re doing, you worked on yourself with schema therapy, you’re going to a counselor so obviously you’ve invested time and money on bettering yourself. If she doesn’t want to own her stuff fine but it’s not your either.

That being said not everyone is like that. Maybe she doesn’t have the same level of self awareness that you do? I’m not defending her or bad behaviour I’m just trying to get you to see beyond your current field of view. She is who she is. Are you willing to accept her for who and what she is in this form today?

[MaybeMaybeNot]

She is who she is. Are you willing to accept her for who and what she is in this form today?

This is an excellent question. First of all, it is important to distinct behavior and personality. If my alcoholic mother had something right, it was her certain values. She taught me this: You can "judge" somebody´s behavior, but NEVER, EVER anybody´s personality, his core, his soul".  I have to agree. And I do not hate her, altought I hate many things she did to me. Does that mean that I want to be vulnerable around her? I do not think so. I gave her a promise that I will be there for her when she needs me, and now I feel that I have broken my word. In my world, man is as good as his word, so I do not take this slightly. Especially when I am fully aware how important it was for her that I keep my promise. On the other hand, she has done pretty much everything in her power to push me away, this is how I see it at least. So I am in huge conflict with myself now. I can not control other people, and it is possible that I have some kind of "white knight fantasy". And there is something else too. When I was with her in her home town, my feelings were not that strong. I mean, I liked her but in my opinion real love takes time to grow. She came so strong that it was difficult for me to get attached that quickly and to be honest, I was kind of happy when I left because I needed some space. It felt unfamiliar, because there was very little drama when I was there in Argentina. Everything was actually smooth.

Then, something interesting happened. When I came back to my country something was different. For me it seemed like there is no connection between us at all anymore( and I sensed that something is very wrong). At this point, my feelings got really strong. And I think what actually happened was the activation of this trauma bond. Think about an ex heroin addict. He has been abstaining for heroin for years. He has been in therapy. Then, after several years somebody offers him a needle, and he gives in. Out of sudden, he is back in the vicious cycle of addiction. And this is how trauma bond works. It never goes anywhere.

So, the real question is: Do I love her as a person who she is? Well, I think deep down I hope that she will be happy. If it means that I have to let go of her, so be it. My ego disagrees, but my soul knows better. The funny thing is that, before I broke up with her, I told her this: Maybe the circumstances with this distance is too much. Maybe the most loving thing I can do is to walk away". And it does not mean that I don´t miss her like crazy. I really do with all her flaws. All I wanted was to connect her. Maybe she was too afraid. Maybe she knows at some level, or in some future that it was all I ever wanted. To see who she really is. Maybe she was afraid that if I really see her, I think she is ugly and leave. And ironically, she pushed me away by herself. And now she thinks it is all my fault. Maybe it is easier for her to think this way. When I was visiting her and we had this fight, she actually sobbed and said that maybe it is really her fault she is alone. And if she feels like this deep down, it is really sad. It is painful to see somebody you really care about treating herself badly. I hated that, and I always encouraged her to have some mercy and compassion for herself.

So, when she calls me a "person who only cares of himself" it feels completely unjustified. Maybe she knows that it hurts me to hear something like that. I know that people with BPD actually intentionally hurt other people, because it makes them feel good. Maybe in her twisted reality she actually actually feel justified to try to punish me. Maybe that person I care about does not even exists. Maybe it was all my fantasy.

[MaybeMaybeNot]

And yeah, I am guessing a lot because I do not really know. She never really revealed what she thinks or feels deep down. It was she expected me to read her mind. I give you one example. One time when we were talking, she told me that she was in a little hangover because she was out in previous night. I told her that I am happy she was having little fun. I encouraged her to spend time with her friends (there were not many) and find new activities for herself. In a day after she told me that she went to drinking because she had nothing else to do, and she did not remember anything of that night. She was angry at me because I was happy for her. As you can image, I was in impossible position. Once again. How could I have known if she did not tell me the full story? I was pretty much speechless.

[pearlsw]

Hi MaybeMaybeNot,

Just to jump in here... .I think that even under the best of circumstances a long distance relationship poses its own set of challenges. It is not for everyone! I've had a few long distance relationships and I think they work best with people who have a routine with it, are secure, and are able to communicate. I know it hurts so much!

I like that you are, and would encourage you to continue, putting the focus on yourself. The best thing that could come of all this is that you are in a better place the next time you start a relationship or are ready for this one if it ever restarts.

Have you had a chance to look at this tool?


Validation

It can help with learning how to listen and respond carefully with your partner. No, you don't have to be a mind reader!

with compassion, pearl.

[MaybeMaybeNot]

Thanks! Really good information indeed!

[Mutt]

. I know that people with BPD actually intentionally hurt other people, because it makes them feel good.

I don’t want to generalize but some pwBPD say the reason why they hurt others is because they want them to feel the hurt that they feel inside.

[MaybeMaybeNot]

the reason why they hurt others is because they want them to feel the hurt that they feel inside.

... .which make them feel better themselves. I did not want to say all people with BPD are like that. There is actually a lot of different opinions among the professionals if the people with BPD know what they are doing or not. There might be some who are like sociopaths, and some who are very well aware of what they do and want to change that.

[zachira]

You have described one of the biggest challenges many of us who come from highly dysfunctional families face and live to experience way too often: attraction to unhealthy people and relationships with people that exacerbate the pain we felt in childhood when our parents did not meet our needs. Many of the people on this site are/have been in painful relationships. I suggest reading many of the other Boards, as you will learn from people who have taken different approaches to their relationships with people with BPD, and see how we support each other in finding our way. Keep us posted on how you are doing, as we are here to listen and help in any way we can.

[MaybeMaybeNot]

You have described one of the biggest challenges many of us who come from highly dysfunctional families face and live to experience way too often: attraction to unhealthy people and relationships with people that exacerbate the pain we felt in childhood when our parents did not meet our needs

Yes, that´s true. And because I am already 34, I have to face the fact that it is possible that I will never have a family of my own and I will die more or less alone. There are people who are too broken to be fixed. I do not know if it is likely or not, but it is possible. I also don´t know if I belong to the category "too broken". Still, even thinking about this possibility makes me scared.

And I hope I can support other people here as well.

[zachira]

 You are worried that you may never have a family or your own, may die alone, and are too broken to be fixed. Your feelings are normal because of the childhood you had, and there is lots of hope because you are willing to look at your pain and do what you have to do to develop healthy relationships. There are many people on this site in their fifties and sixties who have recently begun the journey of having more self compassion, and are already experiencing happier lives and better relationships with self and others. So many of us wish we had the wisdom to realize what you have at 34 years of age. Please read the educational materials on this site and the other boards, and you will get where you need to go. Keep us posted on how you are doing and how we can help, and share your joy with us when you have your family and  are happily married. Although it seems a remote possibility, you will succeed in finding happiness and the challenges that come with leading the life you deserve because of your strength, courage, and integrity.

[MaybeMaybeNot]

You are worried that you may never have a family or your own, may die alone, and are too broken to be fixed. Your feelings are normal because of the childhood you had, and there is lots of hope because you are willing to look at your pain and do what you have to do to develop healthy relationships. There are many people on this site in their fifties and sixties who have recently begun the journey of having more self compassion, and are already experiencing happier lives and better relationships with self and others. So many of us wish we had the wisdom to realize what you have at 34 years of age. Please read the educational materials on this site and the other boards, and you will get where you need to go. Keep us posted on how you are doing and how we can help, and share your joy with us when you have your family and  are happily married. Although it seems a remote possibility, you will succeed in finding happiness and the challenges that come with leading the life you deserve because of your strength, courage, and integrity.

Thank you. This is kind of encouragement I really needed today. You support is noticed and I am very grateful of your kind words.

[MaybeMaybeNot]

I like that you are, and would encourage you to continue, putting the focus on yourself. The best thing that could come of all this is that you are in a better place the next time you start a relationship or are ready for this one if it ever restarts

This is true. Altough it would be a real miracle if I am ever going to talk with this person again. Hearing somebody saying to you "Good bye, have a nice life" and the stuff I mentioned earlier looks to me that if she feels anything for me, it is only disgust. Probably she won´t think of me that much anymore, and soon she will probably forget me all together.

[zachira]

Please remember how another person treats you is how they really feel about themselves. It hurts when a partner does not make an effort to say a loving caring goodbye and then we wonder did they ever care about us at all, and do they care about the relationship ending and the hurt we feel.

[MaybeMaybeNot]

I think I have to agree. How ironic, All that time I did everything I can to make her see that she is lovable. And when I was trying to do that, I became very controlling by myself. This the dark truth behind "white knight syndrome". Right now I am reading a book "Losing control, finding serenity: how the need to control hurts us and how to let it go".

And by the way, all of this is a very strong remainder of what I have experienced with ayahuasca and shamans in Amazonian jungle. For those of you who are not familiar with it: Ayahuasca is a hallusinogenic drink the indigenous healers use for asking guidance and healing from their spirit allies. And this drink will make you lose control completely. And it is terrifying, because when you lose the control you have to face your own death. The shamans call this "little death", the death of false self.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[tiny Monster]

Hey Maybe,

Thank YOU for sharing. I only joined this support group last night and I can't express how much comfort it brings (kind of a sad, selfish comfort I suppose) to hear other's stories laid out so genuinely, vulnerably, and the validation that their connecting points bring me. So thank you. For sharing your pain. For being honest. For being here.
I've been with my partner for 4 years and even after all these years of trying and trying and TRYING to understand where his head goes and why... I still feel very left in the dark... most of the time. If I'm ever "successful" in our progress, it feels like a lucky gamble. Most of the time I feel like I'm failing and the triggers can be so inconsistent, I never feel like I'm learning from my mistakes. I never understand what I did right when things go well, or how I've effed up when things start falling apart. I, like you, recognize I have my own demons I'm fighting and that our demons together only aggravate the situation to something that feels impossible to mend. I want you to know how important it is that you recognize we affect others just as much as they affect us. It's important, and all we can do is try to be better within ourselves to be better partners for the ones we love... That kind of effort isn't always reciprocated, but it doesn't mean we should ever stop trying.

Something that you said that really drove it home for me...
 "Of course I still care about her. Unfortunately she sees me "perfect" or "a person who only cares about himself". I do not think there are any gray area."
My partner has unintentionally played the same head-tripping spins on me... One moment I am an amazing woman that he can't imagine being without, that he could never find anyone to love and support him like I do, and that he doesn't deserve me- as he's said in his own words, he's breaking me. And then in another moment, I am smothering, suffocating, clingy and far too focused on him- that he can't stand the pressure my happiness puts on him- that his downward spirals shouldn't make me so upset... But that's bs. If I care about you, why wouldn't it make me sad that you are sad? I worked with my partner for a painfully long time to understand that the world doesn't really work in black and whites. But it is his natural mindset to be on either end of the extremes. Which has been difficult for me because I learned so early on (probably about 4years old) that the whole world is shades of gray. And it's been an uphill battle to try and get him to see this perspective. I am living in a gray area with him now (which isn't exactly great for me) but it seems to have stabilized him some and we are chipping away at our issues, making slow slow progress everyday.
 "When I think about that all of the people in this world she hates herself the most I become sad. I mean really sad. And there is nothing I can do. So, I will just leave her alone and hope all the best for her."
My partner is a little less in denial about his issues and how his head warps reality, so he has been able, on a few occasions, to say just this "I love you, but I hate myself." This is the simplest summary for why we break the way we do. And I care so much for him, it breaks my heart that his heart is broken. Deeply broken. And there is nothing I can do to help him. All I have to give is love. Love and space. Even loving from a distance can be helpful for them. I am giving my love more space than I am secure with- it's really been plaguing my own demons to come alive in full force, but I'm trying to take this as an opportunity to grow through the pain. You are right- there is nothing we can do to fix them for them. Just support and love as humans are bound to do. And trying to love and support ourselves through this struggle too, even if that means walking away sometimes.

Thank you again for your story. It has brought me some dose of comfort, and I hope some of my story helps you feel less lost and alone

[MaybeMaybeNot]

Hello TinyMonster! Im happy that my story made you feel better so thank you for your kind words! I am not sure if this woman has BPD, so I decided to write my story to see if people who know that their partner has BPD find my story somehow similar to theirs.

[MaybeMaybeNot]

I talked with a different psychotherapist about this issue today. Unfortunately he confirmed that my instincts were most likely right, and I am not paranoid as I have been thinking at times. The one I am working with told me the same thing. Apparently I needed an opinion from many different professionals before I was ready to face the truth. Now I want to cut all the ties. I have blocked her in everything, and may the divine forces protect me so I have never, ever have to meet person like she again. I know it sounds harsh, but I have right to decide who I let in my life. I hope her all the best.  And I am not even sad anymore, because now I know that in reality I did not lost anything but my own fantasy.