Talks about the future - retirement.

[MrRight]

I'm 54 and she's 43. Son is starting a degree in September and she's starting to get nervous.

We're out driving and she asks - have you given any thought to our retirement - how you see it?

- well not too much - I suppose we'll have to take it as it comes.

- we've got a lot to offer each other you and I - we have a lot in common.

(actually we've very little in common. we cant discuss anything without me taking her view - she doesnt like the music I like, literature, sense of humour etc but I'll let that go)

- we should make sure we stay toegther - my dad left my mum after 25 years - he decided he wanted to live life for himself

- for himself eh? no - the rascal! so selfish

- now there's warring all the time between me and my sister and my mum - we mustn't do that to X

- no I agree - we must not war

now we turn into a waste recycling depot where we need to dispose of some junk - I stop and take out some junk boxes etc - staff help me to sort it and I start going back and forth to various large containers - catch a sight of her face in car - looking very angry

5 minutes later we are driving away

- why do you put other people in front of the family!

- what?

- it's not your job to sort the junk - it's their's - its what they are paid for! dont be a rubbing rag!

- the junk has to be sorted - and even if it is their job - I'm a helpful kind of guy

- you idiot - that's why you're a loser - you do other people's jobs for them

- is this a little sample of your idea of how retirement is going to be?

- well let's divorce now then!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

comments please.

[formflier]

Retirement will be that way if YOU decided to keep participating in this kind of discussion.  She does it because it works for her in some way.

What would happen if you ended your involvement... .at the very first hint of disrespect... .the first put down?

I'm also wondering what you get out of this?

What do you think she gets out of it?

What do you think?

I see lots we can work with in this conversation but want to make sure we are on the right rack with the "big picture".

FF

[Cat Familiar]

A few questions:
Are you hoping to divorce?
Why were you driving together at the recycling place?
She is getting nervous because you two will be empty nesters?
Are you worried that retirement will have you two in constant proximity?
Does she have rigid ideas about "status" and that's why it was threatening to her that you helped the recycling folks sort through stuff?

[MrRight]

Retirement will be that way if YOU decided to keep participating in this kind of discussion.  She does it because it works for her in some way.

What would happen if you ended your involvement... .at the very first hint of disrespect... .the first put down?

I'm also wondering what you get out of this?

What do you think she gets out of it?

What do you think?

I see lots we can work with in this conversation but want to make sure we are on the right rack with the "big picture".

FF

Yes I can see that refusing to participate is the answer to these situations. She is persistent though and usually will not stop until I have acknowledged the point. Then there is the fact our S is doing very important exams right now, for the next 2 weeks before he starts his degree in september - she will start to accuse me of jeopordising his chances by not keping her stress levels at 0. She has been using this ploy to control me for the last 16 years.

No idea what she gets out of it.

[MrRight]

A few questions:
Are you hoping to divorce?
Why were you driving together at the recycling place?
She is getting nervous because you two will be empty nesters?
Are you worried that retirement will have you two in constant proximity?
Does she have rigid ideas about "status" and that's why it was threatening to her that you helped the recycling folks sort through stuff?

Yes I am hoping to re-start my life from the point where I met her 17 years ago. Get it back on track - that I was 37 then and 54 now - I will have to comes to terms with that.
She insists on going everywhere with me - she doesnt really work and I work from home - so she's really had me to herself all these years.
I am terrified of spending my retirement with her.
Yes she does have rigid ideas about status - she often has insisted on me putting people to their place - sometimes on her behalf. This has led to some ridiculous scenarios.

She's getting nervous because the one way she always knew she could control me and keep me was by us having a child - which happened. Now he's nearly grown up and starting a degree in September. I have bided my time all these years - I deserve a new start.

I dont think we will last too long since once he's settled into his course I will finally start to establish boundaries - I doubt if she will find that acceptable and expect the open conflicts will drive us apart. Before he was born - if we had a disgreement - she would typically walk out of the house for hours - and fool that I was then - would go after her. If she does it again I wont be making the same mistake.

[formflier]

Hey... .I'm curious about why you wouldn't go places by yourself, assuming it's a big deal to you... which it seems to be.

She can insist all she wants... but you control who you go with.  She can be mad all she wants... She can have conflict all she wants.

You don't have to participate in any of that.

Boundaries:  I'm not aware of a way that you have those and she "agrees" or "likes it"... .however once she realizes they are consistent... .it is very likely she will "accept" them.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

My ex-husband insisted on going everywhere with me. As one friend said after my divorce, "You couldn't even go to the grocery store by yourself." That was absolutely true. Some times he didn't want to go in the store and would wait out in the car for me. I think he was worried that I'd meet someone in the store and would ultimately dump him.    As if the grocery store was some kind of pick up spot.

Since you plan on exiting anyway, why not assert your right to be alone for some of these errands, as formflier has suggested. It won't be fun and she'll undoubtedly throw a fit, but you'll have some blessed alone time to yourself and that will make it worthwhile and you'll be starting a new pattern that will give you breathing room.

[formflier]

And... perhaps if you are consistent with boundaries... .you might find out that you are "protected" from the bad stuff that is leading you to want to exit the relationship now.

I suppose I'm wondering what is the downside... .

FF

[MrRight]

My ex-husband insisted on going everywhere with me. As one friend said after my divorce, "You couldn't even go to the grocery store by yourself." That was absolutely true. Some times he didn't want to go in the store and would wait out in the car for me. I think he was worried that I'd meet someone in the store and would ultimately dump him.    As if the grocery store was some kind of pick up spot.

Since you plan on exiting anyway, why not assert your right to be alone for some of these errands, as formflier has suggested. It won't be fun and she'll undoubtedly throw a fit, but you'll have some blessed alone time to yourself and that will make it worthwhile and you'll be starting a new pattern that will give you breathing room.

She "allows" me to go up the road to buy groceries - mainly out of convenience. Although she tends to think I use these occasions to try and meet someone.

[BetterLanes]

+1 for being terrified of the idea of retirement. I'm not as close as you but anything to do with pensions makes me feel sick and panicky. I can't imagine enjoying retirement and old age with H after my daughter has left home.

I believe my H's grandfather might have been BP. He was very demanding and controlling. He was increasingly incapacitated by diabetes. All he and his wife appeared to do towards the end of their lives unless taken out was sit in chairs watching the TV. If anyone left the room when visiting he would ask after them, and he would make anxious phone calls to check people had arrived home safely. His wife developed dementia. His daughter, H's mother (approaching 70) had to be their primary carer and do many of their domestic chores as well as working, because he refused to go into a home or be separated from his wife, and she (daughter) became very depressed and exhausted. He did cook (well, reheat) all their meals, but also after they did finally have to go into a home when he was hospitalized and his daughter cleared the house, they found lots of the wife's soiled underpants hidden all around the house, presumably in an attempt to conceal her level of disability. I think this detail freaks me out more than anything.

I know this is quite an advanced stage of old age (approaching 90) and I assume that what other repliers have said about boundary-setting would improve the earlier phase of retirement when you are both physically fit and don't have any serious dependency on others for activities of daily living. I am sharing this here though to highlight the need to consider that later stage of life and what I believe an uncorrected relationship with a BP would look like in that stage. For myself I don't want to be on a path to that situation.

[Red5]

... .catch a sight of her face in car - looking very angry
5 minutes later we are driving away... .
- why do you put other people in front of the family!
- what?
- it's not your job to sort the junk - it's theirs - its what they are paid for! don't be a rubbing rag!
- the junk has to be sorted - and even if it is their job - I'm a helpful kind of guy
- you idiot - that's why you're a loser - you do other people's jobs for them
- is this a little sample of your idea of how retirement is going to be?
- well let's divorce now then!

I often hear such "childish" types of retorts; albeit "troubling"... .from my own u/BPDw.

I used to return it, now I just give her one of those eye roll looks... .and say nothing back.

This is how I "wrap" (whack/beat/strike) on the outer shell of my boundary (shield), .as in; I hear you, and I note what you just said, and that's as far as I am going to pay any attention to it.

In my head I am saying to myself... .nice try, thank you for playing, .next time my Dear, YOU will sort the junk, and I will sit in the truck!  

Retirement... .yeah; I have posted round here before, .what if?... .I were to go down hard first, and have to depend on u/BPDw for all my care, .yeah; that's scares me, as long as I am alive, the retirement check will come... .that might be a very long time, insert any scene from movie "Misery" here.  

As far as old age, the "old adage" goes like this, if you want to know what wife will look like and act like in her old age... .take a good long look at MIL, or Granny in law... .and there you go, might be pretty close(?).

Every once in a while, my own u/BPDw will say something to me, like Mr. Right wrote... ."it's not your job to sort the junk - it's theirs - its what they are paid for! don't be a rubbing rag!"... .and those few words (akin to) tell me a whole hellava lot about her thought process, who she really may actually be deep inside... .you see, .as the years pass, the mask slips just a little bit more and more.

I sit here and think, "what have I done"... .I got remarried after the first one crashed so spectacularly... .what was I thinking.

Well, "they" say;... .that hindsight is (=) twenty twenty... .so the universe is all about math right;... .twenty and twenty makes forty, so at fifty two, that's most likely beyond my remaining lifetime, if I add forty to fifty-two ... .stress does have adverse effects on your longevity, this we know.

(actually we've very little in common. we cant discuss anything without me taking her view - she doesnt like the music I like, literature, sense of humor etc but I'll let that go)

... .me2,

Hang in there Mr. Right,

Red5

[MrRight]

Thanks Red5 - funny/bitter irony at its best as only someone married to a pwBPD could produce. You need humour to keep you going.

Oddly enough - if I thought I was going to become incapacitated - I would probably accept spending the rest of my days with her. She'd be a good enough carer - she'd have me where she wants me too - but if you cant leave your bed - what good is freedom anyway. It's because I dont expect to be in such a condition - I am starting to get scared of spending too much more time in this situation - with these emotions I can also see that she is depending on it. Circumstances are such that I cannot reveal my thoughts and feelings to her at this stage.

I see old couples spending the rest of their days together - quite fits guys in their 70s trundling around with a little old lady who doesnt have BPD - that looks depressing enough to me - I think a lot of people in marriage once they get to a certain stage they think - ah, what the hell - and wait for the coffin to end it. I suppose I'm not far off that stage where I might say - ah what the hell. But I aint gonna say it. There's a lot of life out there.

It's funny that you mentioned Misery as I was thinking about it recently - I never thought I would end up married to someone not far off Annie Wilkes. "I KNOW THEY CALL THEM CLIFFHANGERS!"

[Red5]

Thanks Red5 - funny/bitter irony at its best as only someone married to a pwBPD could produce. You need humour to keep you going.

It's funny that you mentioned Misery as I was thinking about it recently - I never thought I would end up married to someone not far off Annie Wilkes. "I KNOW THEY CALL THEM CLIFFHANGERS!"

Ha Ha Ha MrRight !

Lets see, what other Hollywood "master pieces" can we apply here... .
*Aliens ?
*Bonny and Clyde... .
*Terms of Endearment,
*Steel Magnolias (?)
*Monster-in-Law ~>
*Fatal Attraction ()
*Thelma and Louise;

... .yeah, if you can't laugh; you're already dead  !

Red5