New thought on this: I am enabling her to sin

[Jackie59]

There is one thing I read that I keep thinking about more than anything. The fact that I am enabling her to sin. I’d never thought of it that way before.

Do others see this point?

[Notwendy]

Yes, in a more universal sense- enabling can be seen as enabling them to continue behaving in ways that harm others and/themselves. Also consider how enabling behavior can be seen as dishonest and self seeking. People might think that enabling is "helping" others and being selfless- or is the person enabling as a way to manage their own discomfort when the other person is upset.

One example of this is with children. A four year old may want a cookie before dinner. The parent, considering the child's best interest decides that a cookie will ruin the child's appetite for a nutritious meal, and says "no". A four year old is likely to pitch a fit which feels uncomfortable for the parent.

The parent can deal with their own discomfort by giving the child a cookie, or they can stand firm in the boundary. Which decision is in the best interest of the child? Also, children need to learn to manage their own emotions. Which decision helps them to learn to do this?

PwBPD have difficulty regulating emotions. If we manage their emotions by enabling, are we really helping them? Is enabling truly in their best interests?

We can act on these types of boundaries in a marriage or out of one.

In your situation, you have mentioned your wife is cheating on you. If your question is specific to this, does staying married to her enable this? That is probably better answered for you by a theologian in your denomination- pastor. A different way of looking at this is you. If you don't think this is OK, and you are acting as if it is, then you are not being honest with your own boundaries and values and this diminishes you. Infidelity is a difficult situation. IMHO a couple seeking to repair that needs counseling.

[Skip]

Do others see this point?

I don't know if there are universal truths about enabling... .it might make more sense to tell us what is happening, break it down... .what is your home life like (how old are you, how long married, children, what type of problems do you have as a family, etc.)

She will not admit fault. Ever. I’ve thought of telling her to get treatment or I’m leaving.

Have either of you been in therapy - together or individually?

I’ve been married for many years and emotionally abused most of the time. To the point it makes me not want her to even touch me. She’s also cheated on me since day one. My physical health isn’t too good. High blood pressure and sugar. But my emotional health is in tatters.

You mentioned that you relationship goes through cycles of her being good an then cycles of her being difficult.

What is happening in your relationship lately/now?  What are you enabling?

[Jackie59]

We’ve been married 25 years. One boy in college and a girl in high school. My daughter is showing signs of BPD.

My wife refused therapy. She does take medicine and goes to a psychiatrist for her prescriptions.

I started my own therapy two years ago. Her psychiatrist who also sees me told me about the BPD. I’ve researched and learned a lot. It’s made me look at our entire life together differently.

The first talk I had with my wife was about six months ago. She will not admit fault. She says she doesn’t remember all the abuse. And that she didn’t mean it.

Then she charms which is nothing great. It’s just her being normal. That never lasts long. She gets abusive again. This has happened six times now.

What it comes down to is that I realized a while back that I don’t love her anymore. I feel our marriage has been a sham. I look back at everything differently now.

But I feel trapped. Pleasing God comes first then I have the kids and the finances to think about. And I do worry if my wife will be able to take care of herself.

[Skip]

You said there has been infidelity... .can you tell us about that?  Was any of it recent?

[Jackie59]

One affair she admitted a few years ago after badgering her. But still didn’t take any blame. She said I wasn’t there for her emotionally. Which is a bunch of bull.

I’m almost certain of two other affairs.

I can’t get over that either. It’s almost as hurtful as the emotional abuse.

[Skip]

Thanks... .getting the story out really helps everyone here to pitch in.

What is the abuse like? Typically there are repetitive issues that surface and resurface... .what is that.

Marriage at 25 years can be really tough... .kids get older and we start to realize that we are not all that connected to our spouse.

If you could layout the problem as you see it, in 25 words or less, it would help. Can you tell us what she would say (25 words or less).

This a good starting point for us all to work with you... .thanks for working with it.

 

[formflier]

Jackie59,

Much of your story and reaction is the same as mine... .soon after I "peeked behind the curtain" and started looking at BPD.  In my case a therapist saw my wife in action and recommending I read SWOE (stop walking on eggshells) if you haven't read it... .get it and read it... .yep... privately.

She said I wasn’t there for her emotionally. Which is a bunch of bull.

OK... I'm a very thoughtful person.  ESTJ.  My wife is INFP.  So, I still get accused "of being a robot" sometimes.  Basically, I will have a thoughtful reaction first and then "react" emotionally.  My wife does the opposite.  Toss in a PD (personality disorder) and she does the opposite with a great deal of "rigidity" and inability to "see" that anyone else could be different.

Hang with me here... . I get that in your analysis you were there for her.  I'm sure you were.

However, in her world, you were NOT there for her.  Do NOT try to convince her otherwise  Over time, we can teach you have to validate and "listen" to this point of view, without agreeing with it.  And without "invalidating" it.

It won't "fix" anything, yet it will make things run smoother.

 The fact that I am enabling her to sin. I’d never thought of it that way before.

Do others see this point?

I posted about this in the other thread.  The point of enabling is one to consider carefully.  :)on't automatically "declare yourself guilty".  Others can help you "see" more clearly.  

 Her psychiatrist who also sees me told me about the BPD. I’ve researched and learned a lot. It’s made me look at our entire life together differently.
 

Yep... life looks different.  Keep learning.  2 months from now it will look different than now.  

My hope is that YOU will have more hope because YOU have realized there are things you can do to make a positive difference in your relationship, even if your wife doesn't "want to".

The first talk I had with my wife was about six months ago. She will not admit fault. She says she doesn’t remember all the abuse. And that she didn’t mean it.
 

This is frustrating... .dealing with a person with a different reality.  For now, I would limit the thoughts that you have about "forcing" her to "admit fault".

We'll get back to that later.

Then she charms which is nothing great. It’s just her being normal. That never lasts long. She gets abusive again. This has happened six times now.
 

This is critical.  After you answer Skips 25 words or less thing, I would hope you can describe the "pattern" of 6 times.  It's good you see the cycle.

Once you understand the cycle... you can change it  Best thing is you don't need your wife's permission.

What it comes down to is that I realized a while back that I don’t love her anymore. I feel our marriage has been a sham. I look back at everything differently now.
 

Be careful about considering the past too much.  Look for patterns and lessons, yet spend most time focused on now.  The next argument... the next hateful text... the next (fill in blank).  Because you can change the cycle there.

The past sucks... .it was abusive, it will need to be dealt with at some point... but I assure you it's not going anywhere.  The future is still up in the air... .focus on "sending it" where you want it to go.

      

Hang in there, the fire hose of information will be coming at you for a while.

FF

[Skip]

Jump in Jackie... .we'll help you get to a safe harbor so you can get a clear head and make a sane assessment of where to go with this. Work it.

First step is to stop the bleeding so you can have the mental bandwidth to make good short and long term decisions.

 

[Jackie59]

Thank you all so much for your replies. I really appreciate the help.

The emotional abuse comes from lots of passive aggressive behavior. She will start a fight and then clam up when I am needing an answer. All fights have typically ended with “well just tell me what you want me to do” like she has no inkling of what my problem might be. Then irrational anger that can last days. Little digs that are inflammatory but then she will say “I’m just kidding” or I will just not say anything because I don’t want to fight.

[Skip]

Can you walk us through your last event.

I know it sounds crazy, but the tools really work. I was amazed at how well they worked with a person with issues, but they work well with everyone.

This is not to talk you back into your relationship... .its more to say that we might be able to help you stop the bleeding in the short term.

Play out what happened last time?

[formflier]

 She will start a fight and then clam up when I am needing an answer. All fights have typically ended with “well just tell me what you want me to do” like she has no inkling of what my problem might be.  

So... think about patterns... especially since you report this as normal.
 
She starts a fight and you "chase after" the answer.  My guess is somehow your "chase" is feeding a dysfunctional need she has.

What do you think she could be getting from this?

Can you give us an example of one of these fights... start to finish?

Please work on skips request for 25 words or less... first.

cross posted with Skip.  (Skip... edit my post as you see fit)

FF

[Skip]

cross posted with Skip. 

We are on the same page.

There are toxic transaction dynamics couples get into that can be dismantled.