Am I overreacting to daughters behaviour towards my grandson?

[hangingon]

Hello all,

Last week I witnessed something that bothered me so Im posting here to get your perspective.

One day after work when I arrived home and opened the door, the first think I heard was my DD saying forcefully to my grandson:  What the F%$# is wrong with you? His reponse, understandably, was to start crying.  I came inside and casually asked her what was going on, she replied: He's been absolutely awful to me since I picked him up from work, he bit me and hit me tonight.  I don't know what has gotten into him. I distracted him for a few minutes with drawing while she finished cooking their dinner. That lasted about 5 minutes, after which he went to DD and started tugging on her pants leg to get her attention.  She immediately screamed Wow stop touching me! Then she looked at me and said I can't take this right now and left the room, and my grandson was bawling and asking for her via sign language. She did return about 10 minutes later and resumed dinner. There was a lot of lecturing from her to him: I don't know what has gotten into you but you have to stop this, this behavior is unacceptable, etc.

I usually stay out of her parenting issues and did this time.  But this exchange that I witnessed really bothered me.  I could see that she was frustrated, tired, and that my grandson was testing her limits.  However, he is 2, nonverbal, and hungry after a long day. All that aside,  I would never speak to anyone like that!  I never spoke to her like that, and I don't know where she got the idea that would be ok to speak to her son that way. With my grandson being nonverbal at this point, my understanding is that tone of voice and nonverbal cues are more important than ever.  Being screamed at (with profanity) must have some effect on emotional development and his relationship with his mother. My heart goes out to that innocent little boy.  I could see that he just wanted his Mom's attention and some dinner, like most 2 year old boys.

Would you consider this exchange verbal abuse or am I overreacting?

I waited to bring this up a few days later, and simply asked how she was feeling that night and what was going on. She said that she had a rough day at work (new job), could not deal with him biting her and touching her constantly, and that my grandson knows he was being bad.  I started to explain how I felt about her use of profanity and the way she talked to him but stopped myself because I am trying to stay out of her business and she is his parent, not me.  Its really hard when I see this happening to this innocent little boy.

I didn't press further because I am so upset about her treatment of him that evening.  I have seen this before and heard the lectures since then.  But I have never heard her use profanity and speak to him like that. I'm concerned that the blowups are always about her and how hard parenting is on her, and how my grandson is deliberately “doing something to her” rather than her being able to consider his feelings, the fact that he is 2 years old, and that he is still developing emotionally and at that age he is still learning what behavior is and isn't appropriate. This is breaking my heart.

Has anyone here been in a similar situation?  If so how did you handle it?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Merlot]

Hi hangingon

Glad you came to get some perspective, and I hope I can offer some here.  This is a really difficult issue for you to have to stand by and watch, both supporting your daughter and your grandson and I really feel for you.  

I'm not sure about you, but I have always trusted my gut instinct and feel intuitive enough to know when something doesn't feel right.  Like when my BPD daughter raged at me out of control for what I considered to be a non-event.  My first reaction was "something is wrong"... .in fact it's the title of my post here on the board.

So I don't think you are overreacting at all.  I can see you are genuinely concerned and impacted by what you see and feel.

Prior to the rage I mentioned above, I had an instance about 7 months ago when my BPD daughter was having significant trouble getting my granddaughter to sleep during the night after she had tried a number of things.  She and the baby were overwrought with fatigue and I offered some guidance regarding controlled crying that had worked for me.  However, my daughter, by nature, will always take the path of least resistance.  In hindsight controlled crying was never going to work for her... .and it didn't, but then again nothing really has.  It felt like she often wanted my advice and guidance but when I gave it, she resented it.  This particular day, when she continued to complain about how tired she was and the baby not sleeping, I snapped at her as I was so tired of trying to offer help and then having it thrown back at me.   Needless to say, she had a meltdown and cut me out. 

Through much validation, I did manage to get her to coffee to discuss the issues.  I asked her what she wanted from me in terms of helping.  She said that she just wanted me to listen and understand what she was going through.

So my point being that I had spent too much time trying to rescue her and fix things, when she really didn't want me to fix anything, just to listen.

Like you, this is so hard, and watching her parent in the extremes at times was difficult to watch but at the end of the day, it is her child.  Not long after this incident, the violent rage took place and I have been NC since.

I guess if I have the opportunity moving forward, I would focus on validating and de-escalating my daughters emotions (dramas) to calm her enough so that she can focus better on the baby. 

I've also taken the time to learn about BPD and it is not so much as expecting change from them as it is about changing the way we relate to them and assist them in managing their emotions; which they seem to struggle with the most.  There is a great deal of information on the board to the right and parents here have provide great insight and support.

Most of all, let your grandson know how much you love him.  I know this is not the Utopia that you may want to hear, but definitely a reality and my heart goes out to you.

Please keep sharing, we would love to support you here and know how you are going.

Merlot

[bluek9]

Hi Hangingon,

   Reading your post, that could have been me saying those words. I know that feeling of freezing when you hear your own child talking that way to a grandchild. I'm sorry you are going through that. As grandparents we watch, listen and do our best not to inter fear with the parent; but listen when that parent (our child) is BPD, things change. To answer your question yes I personally think it is abusive, words can hurt so deep especially to little people who don't understand.
   My situation is unique my BPDD and my grandson JJ, we all live together. I've been raising him since he was born. Right now he is 6 and she is 36, he is special needs Autistic, ADHD. She has been progressively detaching from him for the last 3 years. She does nothing with him or for him. Often she talks the same way your daughter did. I won't stand for this behavior from her. At the first word of something awful, hurtful or vulgar I simply tell her to stop talking that way. Yes sometimes she does get mad. Then I ask her who ever talked to you like that? I know it's sad but I feel like I have to protect him from her words. It's not loving of her and he deserves to be loved. For me taking guardianship of him was the best thing. I can't say I'm sorry we live together, she is very low functioning and they both need of be taken care of.
   I know that not everyone is in the position I am where I can now be the one who makes all decisions about his welfare. But I'm passionate about grandparents knowing their rights. What works the best for m right now is that my D is never left alone with JJ, it simple is just too much for her to handle.
  Hangingon, keep on being there   your grandchild needs you, how ever that looks for you right now. He is 2 and vulnerable, be his advocate  . Love conquers all, sometimes dealing the parent means not dealing with them. Focus on your grandchild   

[Blueskyday]

Wow, how awful! Poor little boy. I have seen similar behaviour, shouting and withdrawing when my Gbaby was that age but no profanity purposely directed at the child as far as I remember. I am sure there were times when I told her that whilst she is the Mother and I accept that, not to behave a certain way in front of me with the child. She often melted down, just raged in general. This did improve. We can't control what they do or say when were not around.

To put it into a different light. My Dtr does exactly this to the dog. My heart sinks and I often get told not to encourage the dog. I am ordered not to look at the dog. She f's and blinds screams at the dog. If it had been the child I would have said something so you've done well to keep shtum. This is the dog who loves me and does not poop in my house but regularly does in hers. So what does that say?

One thing I have noticed is that our BPD children can often line us up to get a reaction. They know our value and morals better than most anyone. If we are not mindful ( which you clearly were) we chime in. You didn't and I feel that you did the right thing.

But... this can't be allowed to be habitual or you may crack and get discarded. I learned to say how uncomfortable I was with A, B, C and needed to leave. My dtr soon learned to change her behaviour in front of me at least.

I fear you are right in that it will damage their bond. My Grandchild cries for me and she's nearly 7. She misses me and cares about me. Its so apparent in her thoughtfulness despite my dtr not treating me well. She has never cried for her own Mother.I was told by a very wise therapist not to feel badly aboit this. The child needs that warm, reassuring love and if your or my dtr is unable to give it someone has to. you aren't breaking anything, you're filling a void.

I would advise staying mindful. Don't be drawn in and stick to that little guy. He really needs you Xx

[hangingon]

Thank you all so very much for your perspective and thoughts, I am very appreciative of the insights offered here especially since right now I am so close to this situation that I question my objectivity.

My gut reaction to this encounter was that it wasn’t right. I’m committed to staying out of her business (parenting included) but wanted badly to ask her why she had to use those words with my grandson. I agree that another way to look at it as what type of language and treatment is an is not acceptable in my house. If I witness anything like that again I will speak up, explain that it won’t be tolerated and leave the room. She may rage at that but I will have to speak up. I don’t think she realized that I was home at the time so it makes me wonder how she is speaking to him when I am not around. Not my problem I know, but this little boy has been through so much in the last few months, and can’t talk yet so Mom “thinks” she knows what is going on in his head. This boy needs patience, love, and guidance/discipline in a healthy way during this time. Dad is not healthy emotionally either so my grandson is at a disadvantage. As you all have said  he needs me to b a source of unwavering love support and positive guidance, a safe person he can trust, and I am devoted to doing just that.

In the last few weeks I’ve noticed my daughter pulling away from my grandson. She will be engrossed in social media or leave the room for up to an hour for a “bathroom break”. My grandson will seek me out on his own because I interact with him, reading, playing or taking a walk. I have never turned him away unless I have to leave for work or I have plans away from home. I see him try to engage his Mom and about half the time she will tell him to go do something on his own or she will yell at him to not kick her or climb on her. On the days when my grandson is with his Dad, she rarely mentions him. Occasionally I will ask if she saw him on the daycare camera today and she will say that she forgot. My prayer is that this the exception and not the norm, and that they will maintain the bond they have now. However she is quick to tell me about how upset she is about her latest breakup, new men she’s meeting online, and all the dates she has lined up. Really hard for me to listen and validate her feelings to that when by all appearances her priorities are mixed up.

My biggest fear is that she will be unable to work and support herself and my grandson. She is struggling with boss and coworkers at her job, and very little communication with baby’s father. He initiated no contact with her last month because of her behavior and I understand. However there is no communication about parenting their son either which I think will become an issue as time goes on. She does have one good girlfriend who is supportive, so hopefully she can maintain that relationship.

Ok enough venting from me. I’m so appreciative of the support and insights here. This group helps me keep my sanity. I will continue To remind myself of this truth: you didn’t cause it, you can’t change it, and you can’t control it.

[once removed]

hi hanginon,

i really respect your committal to not interfere with her parenting. its humble. its respectful.

have the two of you ever clashed over a similar issue before?

[hangingon]

Hello once removed,

Thank you for your comments. While I struggle at times dealing with her drama, one thing that I do know is that I treat my daughter with respect. Part of that respect is letting her own and accept the responsibility of being a parent.

We’ve had our share of clashes over the year but there have been a few bad clashes and rages since she returned home in February. A couple of them involved terrible rages in front my grandson when his father was here to pick up the child. Both times I stated that I would not tolerate those in my home, asked the boys father to leave, and told my daughter that she needed to go to her room to calm. down. Another time the drama went on for hours and I secluded myself on the back porch to distance myself. My grandson followed me and we played outside until the drama subsided. A fourth occasion was pure rage on her part towards me because she felt like I was “judging her”. Came out of nowhere and was vicious. I validated her feelings but stated I was merely trying to discuss the facts and consequences of her behavior.  I told her that her disrespectful treatment of me in my home was not acceptable and left the room. She apologized later but that episode hurt me deeply then and still does.  I know that all of us here have been the target of vicious rages and realize it is a symptom of BPD but it still hurts and takes its toll.

No doubt there will be more clashes and more opportunities to improve my communication skills and reinforce my boundaries.

[Merlot]

hi hanginon

I told her that her disrespectful treatment of me in my home was not acceptable and left the room. She apologized later but that episode hurt me deeply then and still does.  I know that all of us here have been the target of vicious rages and realize it is a symptom of BPD but it still hurts and takes its toll.

It really sounds like you've been able to strike a nice balance by setting some firm boundaries and even better that it elicited an apology. This is something that my daughter is unable to do.

I actually set some boundaries about being raged at and abused.  I told my daughter that there are opportunities to problem solve that are far more acceptable than raging and gave her some examples.  Needless to say, this was not well received but I felt strong in my value proposition and still do.

You are very right about how hurtful the rages are and for me they seemed to be in response to issues that didn't warrant such a reaction, which makes it all the more perplexing.

I also worry about my granddaughter, about how she is going to cope witnessing this type of behaviour throughout her life. Strangely enough, my GD1 and myself are travelling similar paths, one each side of my BPD daughter.  I'm so sad that I've been cut off as I have little opportunity to be there as a buffer, but my BPD daughter does have some loving family around and they have assured me that they will look after my little granddaughter to the extent they can.  Adn this is true for you, your grandson is very lucky to have such a loving grandparent.

Take care
Merlot

[once removed]

A fourth occasion was pure rage on her part towards me because she felt like I was “judging her”. Came out of nowhere and was vicious. I validated her feelings but stated I was merely trying to discuss the facts and consequences of her behavior.  I told her that her disrespectful treatment of me in my home was not acceptable and left the room.

i guess im wondering, is she open to a little motherly advice? are you open to giving it to her, if she is?

shes new to motherhood, yes? a two year old requires a lot of patience, and i can see how that would really test someone with BPD, not to excuse her swearing at the child or anything else of course. it could be entirely lost on her that this is normal behavior and that her child needs her, that her reactions could be making things worse, that it wont last forever, and that there are other ways.

do you babysit?

[wendydarling]

Hi hangingon 

Been wondering how you are? Are things any better, calmed down with your GS?

WDx