Feeling very low lately

[blooming]

You'd hope that the more time passes the less it would hurt, but currently the opposite seems to be the case. I'm sorry I haven't replied to your latest responses to my last topic, I was away for the weekend. I'll look at them later. I appreciate all your words so much.

The last few days have been very tough. I messaged my ex on Friday (I know it would've been better if I hadn't, but I did and there's nothing I can do about it) asking how his exam had gone.

(Just a small update from people who haven't read my recent topics: ex tried to recycle for a few weeks up until about 3 weeks ago. He said he wasn't doing well and wanted to talk with me about it and I said I was fine with talking over coffee or during a walk, but he kept on making sexual comments and wanting to meet up at night and I thought that wasn't a good idea which he got very frustrated about. The last conversation we had about it ended up with him blaming me for everything again and making me awful (the conversation is somewhere on here as well). After that convo we didn't talk for 1.5 weeks, but then we went to the same festival (with different people) and came across eachother a lot. He ended up approaching me and we had a short, friendly talk and afterwards he messaged me if I wanted to see a show together that night. I agreed to it and we went and it was fun. It was weird though because we only had very basic, friendly conversation and didn't talk at all about what happened, even though the last words he said to me in that last conversation weren't nice at all.) We also had a short conversation the evening the festival ended about that we had a nice time but were tired now etc.

He had that exam the day after the festival and we had talked about it there, so I thought it would be nice to ask how it went. He congratulated me with my brother graduating and we talked a bit about what my brother was going to study, my ex's new internship and about whether I had already thought about which Masters degree I want to do after I finish my Bachelor next year. We also talked about how almost everyone he knows has changed his/her study path in the course of their studies and he really insinuated that he was talking about his 'soulmate ex' (without naming her, but it couldn't really have been anyone else) which really bugged me because he also talked briefly about her at the festival and things like that I can't get out of my head.

I then asked him if he was up for coffee maybe because it felt weird that we hadn't really talked about what had happened the past few weeks, especially that last conversation where he was angry with me. He said he didn't think there would be much to talk about because it was all clear but that if I wanted to we could. He said that the conclusion of the last conversation was clear, that it was clear how he thought about it and how I thought about it. I have no idea what he meant by that though. Any ideas? I told him as much and he didn't want to explain it via message so he said let's go drink coffee anyway. The conversation ended after that without making any concrete plans.

Oh I also transferred him money for the beer he paid at the festival and he suddenly transferred it back after that conversation saying "I paid for that beer. Go drink another" or something like that. Very odd

So what now? Should I message him again asking him when to meet up? Or should I just do nothing? Or should I message him saying that maybe coffee isn't a good idea after all?

I really don't know. I think it would be good for me to have a conversation about everything that has happened and to tell him how much it has hurt me and how much I'm suffering, because to him I always acted like I was okay. I would also really like to talk to him about how much I'm struggling with that soulmate ex of his, although I don't really know how to talk about that with him. Any ideas?

Yesterday I talked with a friend and she said that this obession I have developed for what he thinks of me and comparing myself to his exes is probably just a new manifestion of the eating disorder I had. Because I conquered the anorexia, but not the underlying probably, which is my insecurity. All that has happened is to my insecurity just a confirmation of everything I think about myself, how I'm worth nothing, how I'm less than others, how I'm not good enough. I decided together with her that I really need help with this, so after the exam period is over I'll go to the GP to discuss therapy.

Also, yesterday I changed my facebook profile picture and my ex didn't like the picture, which is really bugging me. I know he does that on purpose.

[Getoverit]

Hi. I can relate to many things you have written about including the "soulmate ex". I know it is very difficult to distance yourself from these thoughts and him period, but please try your best to do so. Trust me and others here--the way you are feeling will never end as long as you maintain contact with him. Have you talked to him about going to therapy? My partner had once approached me about this and when I gently reminded him that it was my idea originally and further commented that it's amazing how he has completely forgotten that I've been asking him to go to therapy for months he begged to differ and a year and a half later still would not commit to going. I mention therapy because I have read that theoretically DBT can possibly work. In my experience though, after interviewing five therapists all five of them refused to consider seeing us once I mentioned that he exhibits all the symptoms of BPD. Furthermore, all five therapists advised me to extricate myself from the relationship ASAP emphasizing NO CONTACT. It truly is the only way to stop the vicious cycle that is all consuming and can lead you to your own death. If you are interested in hearing my story and journey I would love to share with you. I am in the healing process now and amazed at how much progress I've made. It is more likely that you will have a successful life without him than staying together as he sounds incompatible with you to say the least.

[blooming]

Hi. I can relate to many things you have written about including the "soulmate ex". I know it is very difficult to distance yourself from these thoughts and him period, but please try your best to do so. Trust me and others here--the way you are feeling will never end as long as you maintain contact with him. Have you talked to him about going to therapy? My partner had once approached me about this and when I gently reminded him that it was my idea originally and further commented that it's amazing how he has completely forgotten that I've been asking him to go to therapy for months he begged to differ and a year and a half later still would not commit to going. I mention therapy because I have read that theoretically DBT can possibly work. In my experience though, after interviewing five therapists all five of them refused to consider seeing us once I mentioned that he exhibits all the symptoms of BPD. Furthermore, all five therapists advised me to extricate myself from the relationship ASAP emphasizing NO CONTACT. It truly is the only way to stop the vicious cycle that is all consuming and can lead you to your own death. If you are interested in hearing my story and journey I would love to share with you. I am in the healing process now and amazed at how much progress I've made. It is more likely that you will have a successful life without him than staying together as he sounds incompatible with you to say the least.

I really have no idea how to distance myself from those thoughts when they seem to consume me and are the only thing my head is filled with. Just this morning I put a photo of the soulmate ex and a photo of me through a pretty meter on the internet and she got 83% pretty and I 71% and that made me feel awful again. I really try to compare myself with her in every way. I feel so low, such a nothing. I don't have the slightest idea how to get out.

Yes I have talked multiple times with him about going to therapy, always in the sense of "if you're not feeling well, maybe you should try and talk to someone", I have never talked about BPD with him. But he isn't open to it at all. No idea when or if he ever will be. He is too high-functioning now I guess. His PD only manifests itself in his intimate relationships. He also has lost a lot of friends in the past, but the friends he has now he's had for a while already and it seems to go fine.

Yes, my past therapist and my uncle who is a psychologist have said that it's very hard to treat as well. But it must be treatable right? I keep thinking about that my ex will find someone that makes him happy and that the problems then maybe won't show up or that he will get help and afterwards will be fine. Hard thoughts.

I'm glad to hear that you're doing so well! How did you manage it?

We were very compatible actually, we have exactly the same interests and hobbies and find the same things important in life. That's what makes it even worse.

[blooming]

So I messaged him this afternoon about the meeting up. We decided on monday evening (he can't meet up during the day because has to work all day). I still don't know if it's the right decision, but it felt even weirder to back out again when I was the one who proposed in the beginning. I hope the conversation won't become to hostile. I really need to think about how to handle it. I hope you can help me.

What I want to discuss:
- How is he doing now and how has he doing the last months? (because he said he was doing very bad)
- What does he mean by that the last conversation made it clear how we both think about things?
- My point of view about why I didn't come to the rescue straight away (so what everything that has happened has done to me)
- That I find it very difficult that we couldn't make it work a second time, when he could make it work again with all his other exes
- Mutual respect, no hard feelings

[spero]

Hi there blooming,

Its good that you've shared what's been happening with your life.

Yesterday I talked with a friend and she said that this obession I have developed for what he thinks of me and comparing myself to his exes is probably just a new manifestion of the eating disorder I had.

Hmm i'm curious as to why your friend said the above. To put it correctly, perhaps the same root issue which presents itself now as "comparing yourself with his exes" and perhaps the eating disorder, which perhaps goes back to that sense of self image.

All that has happened is to my insecurity just a confirmation of everything I think about myself, how I'm worth nothing, how I'm less than others, how I'm not good enough. I decided together with her that I really need help with this, so after the exam period is over I'll go to the GP to discuss therapy.

Blooming, there is a phrase that goes "you are what you believe" or "you are what you believe yourself to be". I sincerely believe that you're great, and you're no less than anyone else, that you're uniquely you, and that there is great liberation in the freedom of expressing who you are, instead of living up to the expectations and pressures of others. I'm really curious why'd you see yourself in that light. I'm glad you've decided to visit a therapist? ( i'm not sure if a GP and therapist are the same thing ), but being intentional in seeking help through therapy is a baby step forward in the right direction.

I hope that you'll be able to follow through that to the end.

Takecare, blooming.

Yours,
Spero.

[DogMan75]

So I messaged him this afternoon about the meeting up. We decided on monday evening (he can't meet up during the day because has to work all day). I still don't know if it's the right decision, but it felt even weirder to back out again when I was the one who proposed in the beginning. I hope the conversation won't become to hostile. I really need to think about how to handle it. I hope you can help me.

What I want to discuss:
- How is he doing now and how has he doing the last months? (because he said he was doing very bad)
- What does he mean by that the last conversation made it clear how we both think about things?
- My point of view about why I didn't come to the rescue straight away (so what everything that has happened has done to me)
- That I find it very difficult that we couldn't make it work a second time, when he could make it work again with all his other exes
- Mutual respect, no hard feelings

You are setting yourself up for further disappointment and pain.

It sounds like you really struggle with feelings of inadequacy. Looking for validation and relief from another person is a bad idea with anyone, that really has to be self-generated: that’s why they call it self-esteem. But looking for it from a BPD partner? That might be the very worst source of them all.

I can see why a BPD partner might be particularly captivating to you. That idealization must have felt like the best drug on earth. Hell, I don’t struggle with self-esteem problems and being with her felt like the best drug on earth to me. I stopped smoking weed the first year I was with her because I didn’t want to feel the tiniest bit different than I did with her at baseline. That love was the best feeling ever.

In a lot of ways, a BPD relationship is like a drug addiction: it is all biochemistry, after all. Heroin users describe their first hit as the best they’ve ever felt. They also say they can never feel that way again. But they keep trying, chasing that dragon. That’s what makes them addicts. Doesn’t this sound familiar?

Within this context, you sound like you have a particularly addictive personality. The answer isn’t more heroin. It’s replacing your unhealthy addiction with a healthy addiction. Do you work out? If not, now is the time to start. If you already work out, maybe it’s time to up your game. I don’t have the prettiest face, I’d say almost all my friends are better looking than me, but if I can’t change my face, I can at least work towards the best body, and I am surely getting there. Not to mention once you get over those first few months, you start to feel great every single time you work out. It’s amazing how much the mind can follow the body sometimes. I can’t recommend the gym strongly enough. It’s been a game-changer fo me.

I understand how tempting it is to want some sort of closure with him. I really, really do. I’m struggling with exactly the same thing myself. The problem is, you can’t get it from him. Even if he said all the right things -and he may even very well mean them as he’s saying them, which just adds to the temptation to get sucked back in, his words don’t mean anything. There no constancy there. The moment he’s with someone else, he is someone else. You can’t rely on his word.

As I am writing to you, I am speaking to myself. I broke it off with my “soulmate” in November, but we’ve been in almost constant contact ever since. I thought we were moving towards reconciliation, but it turns out she’s been lying to me, repeatedly, systematically, over the course of months to keep me hooked in. What kind of person does that? To their soulmate, of all people? A mentally ill person, that’s who.

I couldn’t help her while we were in the relationship, I certainly can’t help her now. I can’t pull her up, but she can pull me down. The drowning have a tendency to kill their rescuers.

The best thing for both of us, for me and her, for you and me, is to let go. Save yourself. It’s all you can do.

[blooming]

Hi there blooming,

Its good that you've shared what's been happening with your life.

Hmm i'm curious as to why your friend said the above. To put it correctly, perhaps the same root issue which presents itself now as "comparing yourself with his exes" and perhaps the eating disorder, which perhaps goes back to that sense of self image.

Yes that's what she means exactly. That it all stems from the same root issue. Which is the fact that I  see myself as less than everyone else. I keep thinking about how i failed him because with me he couldn't come back. i wasn't good enough for more than a few weeks. While with all his other exes he could truly come back and they were truly together again and went on holiday and to his parents etc. It must be something that I did wrong, because with everyone else he could get together again and with me he couldn't. And it's not that my boundaries were stronger than with those other girls, because I didn't have a lot of boundaries.
 

Blooming, there is a phrase that goes "you are what you believe" or "you are what you believe yourself to be". I sincerely believe that you're great, and you're no less than anyone else, that you're uniquely you, and that there is great liberation in the freedom of expressing who you are, instead of living up to the expectations and pressures of others. I'm really curious why'd you see yourself in that light. I'm glad you've decided to visit a therapist? ( i'm not sure if a GP and therapist are the same thing ), but being intentional in seeking help through therapy is a baby step forward in the right direction.

I hope that you'll be able to follow through that to the end.

Takecare, blooming.

Yours,
Spero.

Very sweet of you to say that Spero. I hope I'll one day feel that way about myself too, because I have never experienced such a feeling. GP stands for general practitioner, so the the doctor. In my country if we go to the doctor first and we get a diagnosis, we can get therapy that's partly financed by the state, so I'll try to get a diagnosis first.

[blooming]

You are setting yourself up for further disappointment and pain.

It sounds like you really struggle with feelings of inadequacy. Looking for validation and relief from another person is a bad idea with anyone, that really has to be self-generated: that’s why they call it self-esteem. But looking for it from a BPD partner? That might be the very worst source of them all.

I can see why a BPD partner might be particularly captivating to you. That idealization must have felt like the best drug on earth. Hell, I don’t struggle with self-esteem problems and being with her felt like the best drug on earth to me. I stopped smoking weed the first year I was with her because I didn’t want to feel the tiniest bit different than I did with her at baseline. That love was the best feeling ever.

In a lot of ways, a BPD relationship is like a drug addiction: it is all biochemistry, after all. Heroin users describe their first hit as the best they’ve ever felt. They also say they can never feel that way again. But they keep trying, chasing that dragon. That’s what makes them addicts. Doesn’t this sound familiar?

Within this context, you sound like you have a particularly addictive personality. The answer isn’t more heroin. It’s replacing your unhealthy addiction with a healthy addiction. Do you work out? If not, now is the time to start. If you already work out, maybe it’s time to up your game. I don’t have the prettiest face, I’d say almost all my friends are better looking than me, but if I can’t change my face, I can at least work towards the best body, and I am surely getting there. Not to mention once you get over those first few months, you start to feel great every single time you work out. It’s amazing how much the mind can follow the body sometimes. I can’t recommend the gym strongly enough. It’s been a game-changer fo me.

I understand how tempting it is to want some sort of closure with him. I really, really do. I’m struggling with exactly the same thing myself. The problem is, you can’t get it from him. Even if he said all the right things -and he may even very well mean them as he’s saying them, which just adds to the temptation to get sucked back in, his words don’t mean anything. There no constancy there. The moment he’s with someone else, he is someone else. You can’t rely on his word.

As I am writing to you, I am speaking to myself. I broke it off with my “soulmate” in November, but we’ve been in almost constant contact ever since. I thought we were moving towards reconciliation, but it turns out she’s been lying to me, repeatedly, systematically, over the course of months to keep me hooked in. What kind of person does that? To their soulmate, of all people? A mentally ill person, that’s who.

I couldn’t help her while we were in the relationship, I certainly can’t help her now. I can’t pull her up, but she can pull me down. The drowning have a tendency to kill their rescuers.

The best thing for both of us, for me and her, for you and me, is to let go. Save yourself. It’s all you can do.

Thank you for your response! I do work out, at least 3 times a week, so I already discovered that drug haha. I love it! Unfortunately this week I don't have a lot of time to work out because of studying, but after that I'll have summer holidays and I'll try to work out even more.

It's funny, you talk about 'the first year with her' and all I can think is "see, he had more than a year too! why can't I keep my ex with me then? what have I done so horribly wrong that he was already done with me after a year and never truly came back, only used me like I was nothing?".

I want to let go, I truly do. But I don't seem to be able to do that now. I thought maybe having a last conversation with him would help. But I'm scared that he'll say horrible things again.

And I really don't know how to let go of that soulmate ex. I can't contact her because they're still in contact (just another example of how special she is to him, with his other exes he is never in contact anymore) and I can't really talk about it with him either because I'm scared he'll confirm all my worst fears.

[Cromwell]

How do you know him mentioning this "soul mate" ex all the time isnt just a way to wind you up and make you jealous?

Since the start, the way you have talked about his behaviour it has consistently come across to me as manipulative.

Everyone has their own body image issues to a certain extent but try not to exaggerate them, he was interested in you and still shown a physical interest. Why compare yourself with others. My r/s lasted longer with my ex than any previous she has had, this was not a hallmark of success or makes me better than her exs, i actually feel worse for it. Ive dated women that I really liked and never had a problem with them until they started to come out with their own insecurities, what it did was to generate and highlight a problem that never previously existed. For me I was previously happy with them and had friends who admitted how lucky i was. Yet you can have attractive people that feel very low self esteem and insecure on the inside. I was deeply infactuated with my ex, yet when she showed me pictures of her previous guys I was mortified. It was a slight hit to my self esteem and a bit of concern at the same time, I was confused why she kept idolising what I saw as ugly. I was expecting better looking or some sort of consistency of taste. The red flag that I missed was, it wasnt about looks it was about emotional control in the r/s, my ex was deeply insecure about her image, a BPD trait.

I Highly agree with you not to talk about his "soul mate" ex, partly for this reason, if he is doing this to invoke jealousy in you and therefore make you chase him more - chase - being the operative word, not necessarily wanting "captured", then it is working, at least not show him that it is riling you - just gives him leverage to work with.

I also recommend you dont meet up with him on monday, or at least, if you do, dont get high hopes of it becoming a neat Q&A session towards gaining closure. Even if he answers with what he expects you want to hear, how can you be sure to believe any of it? - after all he still hasnt admitted to cheating on you. My ex was an expert at telling me exactly what she thought I wanted to hear. I was an expert at pretending that I believed it. In the middle of it, the truth on both sides was mostly absent. in the long run, it just kept me in the fog, partly self induced. Your goal is to get out of all this muddled thinking, not deeper entangled.

have you got trust in him? what is the point of this meeting other than as another opportunity to be hurt and/or conflicted in thought, prolonging this torment.

do you want a r/s with someone where their failing to be open results in you having to question them like this, to the point of it being like interrogating a prisoner of war? The only time I got the truth out of my ex, was by putting a lot of heavy pressure on her, making her angry. The opposite of what you wanting to do (not make him angry). I wish I hadnt heard what she had to reveal, sometimes it is far better that way. Yet I seeked for the truth and got it that way, youve tried to calmly talk to him before, it never worked then. I cant see him being any different now, it seems a waste of time, especially if your being tepid about it and not willing to putting any pressure on getting answers.

assuming this "rate of meter" thing is accurate, without knowing anything about it I can already safely conclude it is narcissistic garbage. Why would you want to be with someone who prefers you 12% less in physical attractiveness. How shallow and superficial. Does that mean if his soul mate would end up horrificly disfigured in an accident, that all of a sudden you would replace her? Would you feel at ease then that you became the new "soul mate".

have you ever found out why she is his ex? Was it a similar pattern that he cheated on her, got found out and then discarded? because thats the pattern of my ex and what caused her to keep fantasisng about them. It wasnt because she saw them as lost "soul mates" it was being exposed to the shame of having cheated on them and being summarily discarded. Something I should have done, if I had healthy self esteem at the time. The ones that she laughed about were the ones who still chased her, one of them 4 years after. My not getting out of this tangled emotional silly mind games caused my self esteem to plummet as each day went on and made me even more able to be controlled - which is what it was all about.

Im not saying this is the same situation for you, im saying I cant help but read the same pattern.

Hopefully it isnt, youll meet him monday, have a productive chat and can detach (your stated wish) without any hard feelings on either side.

Ive thought about the same, ive imagined it in my mind, a friendly closure chat over coffee and I leave feeling a huge burden off my shoulders and can get on with life. The reason I dont bother is I dont see any point wasting my time giving someone the opportunity to lie to me again.

what id like to assure you is that comparing yourself based on a time-length of a r/s is pointless. There are too many factors, unlinked to "love" of the respective partner that can keep relationships going well past their best-before-date has expired. It is simply impossible in any case, even if you interview both sides to get the truth of whether it was more "meaningful" relationship then the one you had, you are getting subjective views not objective ones. I think this is one thing you could consider dropping from your concerns for that reason. I would have rather had the first 3 months, leave, and have very happy memories, than 3 years in total of ultimately an unhealthy relationship overall. "Quality time" not "quantity time" is what people look for.

your time with him was unique and special, by definition, regardless of "x" number of days it went on in comparitive analysis with this other woman.

[DogMan75]

Cromwell, so much of what you said resonates so deeply for me here. I had a hard time paring it down to just these key points:

My ex was an expert at telling me exactly what she thought I wanted to hear. I was an expert at pretending that I believed it. In the middle of it, the truth on both sides was mostly absent. in the long run, it just kept me in the fog, partly self induced. Your goal is to get out of all this muddled thinking, not deeper entangled.

have you got trust in him? what is the point of this meeting other than as another opportunity to be hurt and/or conflicted in thought, prolonging this torment.

Preach it, brother. I feel you’re both speaking for me and to me, which I guess is much of what we’re all doing here.

... .you are getting subjective views not objective ones. I think this is one thing you could consider dropping from your concerns for that reason.

The need for answers, for closure is so strong, but you can’t expect answers from them. They don’t have them. My ex makes up scenarios on the fly to explain her feelings at the moment, and the narrative is tuned to make the feelings make sense to her, not the other way around. It sounds believable so often because she believed it. I believed her so often because I found no telltale hallmarks of lying in her delivery. They live in lies. They are lies to themselves, primarily, that become lies to others almost incidentally. To them, those lies are the truth. Denial is the cornerstone of their maladaptive coping mechanism.

Even in those very, very few moments where objective facts could be used to force an admission out of my ex, I’d find that if we would later revisit the issue, she’d have rewritten over it again anyway. There is no emotional constancy. It is always, and will always be, only right now.

Blooming, you could hear exactly all the most perfect responses to all your questions, and it would mean nothing at all. It lasts only as long as those moments you are with him. As soon as you part ways and he has to live with himself, by himself, he will overwrite however he needs to. He simply can’t tolerate the reality of his actions. It is too painful for him.

I would have rather had the first 3 months, leave, and have very happy memories, than 3 years in total of ultimately an unhealthy relationship overall. "Quality time" not "quantity time" is what people look for.

The only consolation I feel from spending the time on the relationship that I did was that I know for a fact that I exhausted every option. I really did everything I could. Ultimately though, it still didn’t work, and looking back, I should have known much sooner.

Blooming, if he left you, by definition you did all you could. I know it may sound counter-intuitive, but that’s a gift to you, if you think about it. He removed the choice. You don’t have to doubt if you there was anything else you could do, he didn’t give you the chance.

Moving forward in my life now, I’m realizing that I need to structure my relationships better. If any good has come out of this (and I think that there’s good that can be drawn out of almost everything), it’s that I need to better define hard limits of what is unacceptable in a relationship, and really hold myself to those standards.

I compromised those values in myself out of want. I wanted so badly for this relationship to work, that I gave it more leeway than most. It didn’t work. I ended up in a relationship defined by what I wanted with her, not what I actually had with her.

[blooming]

How do you know him mentioning this "soul mate" ex all the time isnt just a way to wind you up and make you jealous?

Hi Cromwell! Always nice to hear from you! Thank you for your very elaborate response.

Of course I do not know that. I do know that he also talked a lot about her with the other girls he dated/had relationships with after he separated from her, so it's not something he just does with me. And it's not that he talked about her all the time. It's just that he was very clear in that he she was still very special to him and different from his other exes in that aspect. He has also said, when I said I had the feeling that he wasn't over her completely, that he thought he'd probably never get over her. And there's of course the song I found that he wrote about her. He said at the time that it was normal to think of an ex from time to time in that way, but I really think it isn't. And he just mentioned her from time to time in his conversations. Saying that he went somewhere with her or telling a story about a friend of hers who had been ill or a story about his father (who he's now not in contact with anymore) didn't like her.

Since the start, the way you have talked about his behaviour it has consistently come across to me as manipulative.

Everyone has their own body image issues to a certain extent but try not to exaggerate them, he was interested in you and still shown a physical interest. Why compare yourself with others. My r/s lasted longer with my ex than any previous she has had, this was not a hallmark of success or makes me better than her exs, i actually feel worse for it. Ive dated women that I really liked and never had a problem with them until they started to come out with their own insecurities, what it did was to generate and highlight a problem that never previously existed. For me I was previously happy with them and had friends who admitted how lucky i was. Yet you can have attractive people that feel very low self esteem and insecure on the inside. I was deeply infactuated with my ex, yet when she showed me pictures of her previous guys I was mortified. It was a slight hit to my self esteem and a bit of concern at the same time, I was confused why she kept idolising what I saw as ugly. I was expecting better looking or some sort of consistency of taste. The red flag that I missed was, it wasnt about looks it was about emotional control in the r/s, my ex was deeply insecure about her image, a BPD trait.

I'm not exaggarating my body image issues. I have had a severe eating disorder for 3 years. But I overcame it. I'd say I'm a lot more confident now appearance wise than I was before, but still nowhere from where some of my friends are. And this just all brings back a lot of insecurities. I do have to say that my ex has never said anything about me not looking pretty enough. He always said he absolutely loved my body and that I was very pretty. He did make me feel insecure about not being good enough for him though. Because every time he wanted me back he changed his mind as soon as he had me again, because he decided that he didn't like me enough anyway. While with his other exes he did stay with them when he wanted to try again. So that must be something that I am doing wrong.

But do you mean that I should just hide my insecurities from the person I am dating? Because that would be hiding a part of myself? I do know that my ex sometimes found it very difficult when I was feeling insecure. During our relationship I had a period where I wasn't happy with my body because I gained some weight again and there was actually one night when it was really bad and I didn't want him to touch me because I felt so ugly and I said that I couldn't understand why he wanted to be with me. He said that wasn't nice to hear, that someone he found so attractive hated her own appearance. I can really understand that must have been difficult for him. It was early on in our relationship though, so he could handle it back then. Same goes for the period where I was overworked and not feeling well because of that. He did find it difficult that I couldn't really explain to him how I was feeling, he was very worried about me. Silly thing is that at other times he thought I talked too much about how I was feeling. That there was always something wrong with me and that I would make an issue out of everything. Wow I had forgotten some of these things. I know that I wasn't the easiest partner. I have my own issues. It's part of why I keep blaming myself. Now I feel so awful again. I regret so much. Maybe if I hadn't shared as much about my insecurities he'd still be here.[/quote]

I Highly agree with you not to talk about his "soul mate" ex, partly for this reason, if he is doing this to invoke jealousy in you and therefore make you chase him more - chase - being the operative word, not necessarily wanting "captured", then it is working, at least not show him that it is riling you - just gives him leverage to work with.

I also recommend you dont meet up with him on monday, or at least, if you do, dont get high hopes of it becoming a neat Q&A session towards gaining closure. Even if he answers with what he expects you want to hear, how can you be sure to believe any of it? - after all he still hasnt admitted to cheating on you. My ex was an expert at telling me exactly what she thought I wanted to hear. I was an expert at pretending that I believed it. In the middle of it, the truth on both sides was mostly absent. in the long run, it just kept me in the fog, partly self induced. Your goal is to get out of all this muddled thinking, not deeper entangled.

have you got trust in him? what is the point of this meeting other than as another opportunity to be hurt and/or conflicted in thought, prolonging this torment

You're maybe right. But I just can't let go now and I hope that I maybe can if we talk about it again. Every time we broke up we had quite a good closure conversation, so I know he's kind of capable of it. I have no idea how he will behave now though, especially because he was quite indifferent about meeting up and very cool in our conversations about it. So maybe he's going to be very distant and mean now.

do you want a r/s with someone where their failing to be open results in you having to question them like this, to the point of it being like interrogating a prisoner of war? The only time I got the truth out of my ex, was by putting a lot of heavy pressure on her, making her angry. The opposite of what you wanting to do (not make him angry). I wish I hadnt heard what she had to reveal, sometimes it is far better that way. Yet I seeked for the truth and got it that way, youve tried to calmly talk to him before, it never worked then. I cant see him being any different now, it seems a waste of time, especially if your being tepid about it and not willing to putting any pressure on getting answers.

assuming this "rate of meter" thing is accurate, without knowing anything about it I can already safely conclude it is narcissistic garbage. Why would you want to be with someone who prefers you 12% less in physical attractiveness. How shallow and superficial. Does that mean if his soul mate would end up horrificly disfigured in an accident, that all of a sudden you would replace her? Would you feel at ease then that you became the new "soul mate".

have you ever found out why she is his ex? Was it a similar pattern that he cheated on her, got found out and then discarded? because thats the pattern of my ex and what caused her to keep fantasisng about them. It wasnt because she saw them as lost "soul mates" it was being exposed to the shame of having cheated on them and being summarily discarded. Something I should have done, if I had healthy self esteem at the time. The ones that she laughed about were the ones who still chased her, one of them 4 years after. My not getting out of this tangled emotional silly mind games caused my self esteem to plummet as each day went on and made me even more able to be controlled - which is what it was all about.

His story is that it was just one time too much and that there and something had just clicked inside her head and she dediced no more. He said there were some issues they could never agree on. That he never dared to plan very far ahead with her because he didn't know if they'd be together. And he said that she had told him that her hair was always thicker when they weren't together then when they were. And in that song he wrote it said "We said we could be happy if only we were separate".

There's also the story of him cheating on her in the last half year of their relationship with another ex of his. I'm not 100% sure that happened though, it could be that he only slept with that ex on moment that he and his 'soulmate' were separated. Or that that ex doesn't have the timeline entirely right because it's already almost 4 years ago. That ex he slept with said that he told her that he and the 'soulmate' were only together for half a year, and that he went to Berlin with friends that summer while he actually went with his soulmate. Could be that she mixed something up though, because he did go to another part of Germany with friends that same summer. I don't think the soulmate found out about this cheating though. Otherwise they wouldn't be in contact anymore right? Someone cheating on you (sleeping with that person, not just kissing) for half a year... .And they're still having friendly conversations. That doesn't make sense.

It would make sense with your theory about the shame though. And in that song he also said "should have gone right but I turned to the left" which indicates he made a wrong decision.

Im not saying this is the same situation for you, im saying I cant help but read the same pattern.

Hopefully it isnt, youll meet him monday, have a productive chat and can detach (your stated wish) without any hard feelings on either side.

Ive thought about the same, ive imagined it in my mind, a friendly closure chat over coffee and I leave feeling a huge burden off my shoulders and can get on with life. The reason I dont bother is I dont see any point wasting my time giving someone the opportunity to lie to me again.

what id like to assure you is that comparing yourself based on a time-length of a r/s is pointless. There are too many factors, unlinked to "love" of the respective partner that can keep relationships going well past their best-before-date has expired. It is simply impossible in any case, even if you interview both sides to get the truth of whether it was more "meaningful" relationship then the one you had, you are getting subjective views not objective ones. I think this is one thing you could consider dropping from your concerns for that reason. I would have rather had the first 3 months, leave, and have very happy memories, than 3 years in total of ultimately an unhealthy relationship overall. "Quality time" not "quantity time" is what people look for.

your time with him was unique and special, by definition, regardless of "x" number of days it went on in comparitive analysis with this other woman.

Thank you for that last part. Maybe you're right, but then I still have the issue of why he couldn't really come back to me while he could with his other exes. Why could he try again with that soulmate ex of his for 5 times and everytime their relationship lasted a while again, she went to his parents again, celebrated the Holidays with them, went on vacation with him again? While with me as soon as he had me again he was bored again? It just feels like something I have done wrong.

[blooming]

The need for answers, for closure is so strong, but you can’t expect answers from them. They don’t have them. My ex makes up scenarios on the fly to explain her feelings at the moment, and the narrative is tuned to make the feelings make sense to her, not the other way around. It sounds believable so often because she believed it. I believed her so often because I found no telltale hallmarks of lying in her delivery. They live in lies. They are lies to themselves, primarily, that become lies to others almost incidentally. To them, those lies are the truth. Denial is the cornerstone of their maladaptive coping mechanism.

Even in those very, very few moments where objective facts could be used to force an admission out of my ex, I’d find that if we would later revisit the issue, she’d have rewritten over it again anyway. There is no emotional constancy. It is always, and will always be, only right now.

Blooming, you could hear exactly all the most perfect responses to all your questions, and it would mean nothing at all. It lasts only as long as those moments you are with him. As soon as you part ways and he has to live with himself, by himself, he will overwrite however he needs to. He simply can’t tolerate the reality of his actions. It is too painful for him.

The only consolation I feel from spending the time on the relationship that I did was that I know for a fact that I exhausted every option. I really did everything I could. Ultimately though, it still didn’t work, and looking back, I should have known much sooner.

What you're saying makes a lot of sense with the behaviour he has shown during and after our relationship. One moment it wasn't my fault and it was just because he was so busy and he regretted everything, the other moment he blamed it all on me and I was the one who had no time and who only thought of herself and who cost him too much energy.

I have no idea how  he really thinks of me at the moment. Is he painting me black like most of his other exes? Or has he turned me into a new 'soulmate ex' and does he regret everything like he sometimes says he does? I really don't know and it bugs me. I have this thing where I really want everyone around me to like me (it sounds kind of mild but it's a bit of a problem because I go over my own boundaries in order for people to still like me sometimes) and the idea that he doesn't like me is really really hard.

Blooming, if he left you, by definition you did all you could. I know it may sound counter-intuitive, but that’s a gift to you, if you think about it. He removed the choice. You don’t have to doubt if you there was anything else you could do, he didn’t give you the chance.

Moving forward in my life now, I’m realizing that I need to structure my relationships better. If any good has come out of this (and I think that there’s good that can be drawn out of almost everything), it’s that I need to better define hard limits of what is unacceptable in a relationship, and really hold myself to those standards.

I compromised those values in myself out of want. I wanted so badly for this relationship to work, that I gave it more leeway than most. It didn’t work. I ended up in a relationship defined by what I wanted with her, not what I actually had with her.

But he left me so many times. Why? Why did he come back if he already knew that it probably wasn't going to work out because he didn't like me enough anymore any way? Why did he feel okay with hurting me in that way? When he knows how insecure that would make me feel and how it would bring me down to the lowest of the low.

The last time I kind of left him but that was only after he said that he was having a lot of doubts and that he didn't think he wanted to be in a relationship with me again (we were dating for about 1.5 months again then). He actually convinced me to walk away. So it still felt like it was him making the decision.

What you're saying is true. I also didn't hold on to my boundaries because I wanted it to work so badly.

[spero]

Hi Blooming,

How are you doing. I hope you're feeling a little better.

I have this thing where I really want everyone around me to like me (it sounds kind of mild but it's a bit of a problem because I go over my own boundaries in order for people to still like me sometimes) and the idea that he doesn't like me is really really hard.

I would suggest that this might be a good topic to explore when you're in session with your therapist blooming. Blooming i know it is difficult and you want people to like you (especially him), i'm curious as to why you'd choose to make such an allowance for him, especially someone who isn't personally doesn't have an understand of boundaries.

But he left me so many times. Why? Why did he come back if he already knew that it probably wasn't going to work out because he didn't like me enough anymore any way?

Blooming, perhaps the assumption you might be making is that, he is rational at the point of making these decisions, or that his cognitive ability allows him to put himself in the shoes of others, ie being considerate of the feelings of others. From what you've shared over your history and the many threads, his behavior is very telling that most of the time, he is only able to see his own needs, which are very much driven by his feelings.

Why did he feel okay with hurting me in that way? When he knows how insecure that would make me feel and how it would bring me down to the lowest of the low.

Blooming, i don't know, and i perhaps question the point about his awareness that he is hurting others. He might not be aware, and perhaps it is an assumption to think that he knows what he is doing.

Whatever the possible reasons are, his behaviors speak for themselves, his emotional capacity is limited and he is only able to consider him and him alone. Intention does not always translate to behaviour, and this is a common narrative we see with people who struggle with BPD as an illness. Unfortunately dear blooming, his consideration for you isn't about having empathy for you, it is about his needs and how he gets his needs met through you.

Blooming, what is one thing that you can do for yourself right now to give relief to yourself? ( not the situation relating to him ) but only for yourself? I see that you are struggling and hurting. Take good care dear blooming.

Yours,
Spero

[blooming]

Hi Blooming,

How are you doing. I hope you're feeling a little better.

Not doing much better unfortunately. I have my end-of-year exams next week so I have to study all the time and can't really exercise or see my friends, which isn't helping.

I would suggest that this might be a good topic to explore when you're in session with your therapist blooming. Blooming i know it is difficult and you want people to like you (especially him), i'm curious as to why you'd choose to make such an allowance for him, especially someone who isn't personally doesn't have an understand of boundaries.

Well, the easy answer is probably because I love him. He is also my first boyfriend and because of my insecurities I think I really wanted it to work because I was scared I wasn't going to find someone else. Still scared of that though.

Blooming, perhaps the assumption you might be making is that, he is rational at the point of making these decisions, or that his cognitive ability allows him to put himself in the shoes of others, ie being considerate of the feelings of others. From what you've shared over your history and the many threads, his behavior is very telling that most of the time, he is only able to see his own needs, which are very much driven by his feelings.

The funny thing is though, that he keeps saying that he's only ever thought of me. "I'm going to think of myself for once, instead of always thinking of you" he said in our last conversation. Which indicates that in his opinion he has always been very considerate of my feelings and has always been worried about/for me. It's so odd. How can he think that he only thought of me this past half year? With every time he tried to win me back only to discard me again? How can he think that's good for me? If he had only thought of me a little bit he wouldn't have done it.

Blooming, i don't know, and i perhaps question the point about his awareness that he is hurting others. He might not be aware, and perhaps it is an assumption to think that he knows what he is doing.

Whatever the possible reasons are, his behaviors speak for themselves, his emotional capacity is limited and he is only able to consider him and him alone. Intention does not always translate to behaviour, and this is a common narrative we see with people who struggle with BPD as an illness. Unfortunately dear blooming, his consideration for you isn't about having empathy for you, it is about his needs and how he gets his needs met through you.

Blooming, what is one thing that you can do for yourself right now to give relief to yourself? ( not the situation relating to him ) but only for yourself? I see that you are struggling and hurting. Take good care dear blooming.

Yours,
Spero

Do you think that's why he has truly discarded me now? Because he noticed that I won't meet his needs anymore? I think I read somehwere on here that they keep testing you to see how loyal you are and how much you would do for them after they discarded you (why do they do that?). It makes sense with the behaviour he has shown over the past half year. Seeing how far I would go, how long I would come back to him, how much I would take. And now that I have indicated that I do't want a reconciliation anymore he doesn't seem interested anymore. Because when I messaged him to ask if he wanted to talk, he was very cold and distant in his replies.

It's weird though, because I have said so many times to him in the past weeks that I didn't want to reconciliate and still he kept trying and then we had that one conversation I posted here and suddenly he's done. I don't know what it was in that conversation that triggered that.

At the moment I can't really do anything to give myself relief because I am chained to my books. It's a very frustrating situation because I have no focus at all, so I'm scared that I'll fail my exams.

[DogMan75]

Hi Blooming!

They do have a penchant for terrible timing, don’t they?

Trying to understand his motivations is probably not the most productive endeavor. You can drive yourself crazy with variables. Moreover, the truth is he may not, in fact probably doesn’t, really understand them himself. He has disregulated feelings which drive impulsive behavior. He then sees that behavior though a lens that necessitates that however illogical or destructive that behavior is, that it is justified. It is too painful for them to acknowledge their fault.

Your first boyfriend, huh? Oh, man, what a starter model! Believe it or not, all things considered, it sounds like you’re handling this all pretty well. Any breakup is painful, the first relationships are always confusing, and BPD is just not fair to throw at noob right out of the gate.

I had been dating for twenty years when I met my BPD ex, and it was by far the hardest relationship to negotiate that I’ve ever had, especially the breakup.

To give it some scale for you, I find myself looking back at the breakup with the mother of my child as practice for this relationship. Can you imagine? That’s how painful losing a loved one to BPD can be.

You will get over this, as hard as it is to imagine right now. It may take a long while, and will feel even longer, but you will. You are thinking it through, you are coming here, seeing a therapist, taking care of yourself, maintaining your studies -you are doing everything right.

Cliches are chilches because they are true, and while it’s not completely true for everything, “Time heals all wounds,” has got you well covered here. Hell, to be thrown into the deep end here, forcing such a hard look at your values and boundaries may turn out to be a painful but valuable experience for you.

The lessons I’ve learned the hard way here are going to be extremely helpful to me going forward. I wish I’d learned them years ago: I could have saved myself years of trouble. I’m almost jealous you get to learn them so early in your dating career!

[Harley Quinn]

Blooming, you've had some excellent support in this thread from Cromwell and Dogman75.  I just want to ask you, what do you wish you were feeling and what would you like to be saying to him when you meet?  In an ideal world, with no limitations, no insecurity, and this far out from your r/s, after the way you've been treated what would you want to be putting across to him?

Love and light x 

[blooming]

Blooming, you've had some excellent support in this thread from Cromwell and Dogman75.  I just want to ask you, what do you wish you were feeling and what would you like to be saying to him when you meet?  In an ideal world, with no limitations, no insecurity, and this far out from your r/s, after the way you've been treated what would you want to be putting across to him?

Love and light x 

Yes, I've had amazing support! I'm very grateful for all the things they have said.

That's a very good question to ask HQ. I think that in an ideal world without insecurities, I wish I would never have to have this conversation. Without insecurities I would maybe be strong enough to see that it's better this way and that I don't want him in my life anymore in anyway and I wouldn't care about what he thinks of me and I would maybe be strong enough to cut him from my life. Because in the long run that would probably be the best. Maybe then I would have already been feeling a lot better now.

I would also want him to know how much he has hurt me. That I am grateful of the time we had before the first break-up (and the last few months before the first break-u too) and that he has made me feel more confident and happier than ever, but that I wish that everything after the first break up hadn't happened. It has broken me down. I would want to say that I'm not strong enough for him. I can't get angry back at him and everything he says and does is imprinted in my memory and brings me closer to the abyss. That every moment of every day I keep blaming myself for all the things I should have done differently. That I can't forgive myself for the fact that I couldn't make him stay the second time around, while all his other girlfriends could. That I failed in that aspect and that that is something I can't come to terms with. That I wish I would have been good enough and that it would have worked out.

I would maybe want to ask him about the cheating again, because I have only spoken about that with him via WhatsApp and I really want to see how he reacts in real life.

I would want to ask him how he's doing and what the last few months were like for him, because he says that he has been feeling so down. I think he's doing better now though.

I would like to explain to him why I didn't jump up at the first sign of him wanting my help. That I'm cautious because of what has happened. That it's not because I don't want to help him and that I'm fine with talking with him, but that I need to protect myself and that he kept insinuating that he wanted more to happen and that I knew that wouldn't be good for me. That for me it's harder to detach after something like that than it is for him.

I would like to ask him what he means by that it's clear to him what the conclusion of that last conversation we had was. That it's clear to him how he thinks about it and how I think about it. Because I have no idea what he means by that.

That I don't understand why he says that he has only ever thought of me and now for once will think of himself. Because if he had only thought of me, why would he have recycled me time and time again knowing in his heart that nothing had changed and that it wouldn't work out?

[Harley Quinn]

Thanks for playing along Blooming.  This is really good stuff to read - what you would want to say and feel if the insecurity were removed.  I'm glad you were able to visualise this. 

So in essence you would want to be confident.  You would want to tell him that you are glad the first r/s happened and that you wish you'd both left it at that when it ended.  To tell him he hurt you after that and that's not OK.  Things being over between you is for the best.  That you're now moving on with your life and focusing on your own happiness.  That you wish the same for him and you remain firm that nothing will happen between you romantically again as you are protecting yourself from further hurt and that will not change. 

Would that be a reasonable summary?  Do you think without the insecurity you'd be concerned about ex girlfriends or prior conversations?  Or rather look at the big picture being this is what is best for you?

That I don't understand why he says that he has only ever thought of me and now for once will think of himself. Because if he had only thought of me, why would he have recycled me time and time again knowing in his heart that nothing had changed and that it wouldn't work out?

This sounds like simple projection.  It has come over in your posts that he is very focused on his own needs above those of others.

Love and light x

[blooming]

Thanks for playing along Blooming.  This is really good stuff to read - what you would want to say and feel if the insecurity were removed.  I'm glad you were able to visualise this. 

So in essence you would want to be confident.  You would want to tell him that you are glad the first r/s happened and that you wish you'd both left it at that when it ended.  To tell him he hurt you after that and that's not OK.  Things being over between you is for the best.  That you're now moving on with your life and focusing on your own happiness.  That you wish the same for him and you remain firm that nothing will happen between you romantically again as you are protecting yourself from further hurt and that will not change.

Yes I'd say that's a pretty good summary. The only way I'd be open for trying again is if he opened up and started seeing a therapist and working on himself, but I do not see that happening in the (near) future. Besides, he's not interested in me anymore because he hasn't messaged me at all on his own accord since the festival we went to. So it doesn't really matter. I really don't know what he'll behave like tomorrow. I'm scared he'll be very distant and cold.

Would that be a reasonable summary?  Do you think without the insecurity you'd be concerned about ex girlfriends or prior conversations?  Or rather look at the big picture being this is what is best for you?

Pfff that's a really good question. I think that's too hard for me to imagine because being concerned about his ex girlfriend is something that's deepy rooted inside of me and not something I can really just brush away or imagine that it's not there.

The feeling that it was me who did something wrong and that's why I couldn't keep him with me for longer is extremely strong. Especially because I think it's the truth. Yes, we had the longest consecutive relationship (around 12 months since we first started dating) he ever had (with others he broke up for the first time earlier on), but then afterwards he just couldn't stay. He'd be done again after one week, two weeks, a month. Whereas with all his other three girlfriends the relationship lasted at least 2 months again. Sometimes even more than half a year. And in total his relationship with the soulmate ex was almost 3 years. So it must be something that I did wrong that I couldn't keep him with me.

This sounds like simple projection.  It has come over in your posts that he is very focused on his own needs above those of others.

Love and light x

So odd that he thinks the opposite though

[Harley Quinn]

It's self preservation.  A bit like the way it's said that when we find fault with people, to some degree that fault can be a reflection of a behaviour of our own which we dislike. 

Well with a BPD sufferer it's a way to literally deny to themselves that they are this way and instead apply this behaviour to someone else so they can be rid of it.  He HAS to believe it, as otherwise that would be like admitting to himself that he is flawed and therefore is bad/wrong.  Which equals shame.  It would be too difficult for him to admit to himself (because it's about him, not you) that he is self absorbed and doesn't consider your needs.  Deep down he actually knows that's the case but it's more than he can tolerate accepting.  He is exonerating himself from being the one who has made demands.  At the same time, your refusal to fall in line and be at his beck and call when he pushed for intimate contact after your breakup is seen by him as you only considering your needs not his.  It could be a way of him getting into your head.  (It's done the trick because you're thinking about it.)   

There's a workshop on projection on the site, which has this to say:

Projection is a defense mechanism, operating unconsciously, in which what is emotionally unacceptable in the self is unconsciously rejected and attributed (projected) to others.  Projection is denying one's own unpleasant traits, behaviors, or feelings by attributing them, often in an accusing way,  to someone else.

Back to you, where we need to focus.  Because you're the one who needs to be keeping yourself as emotionally safe as you can if you plan to meet him.

The feeling that it was me who did something wrong and that's why I couldn't keep him with me for longer is extremely strong.

Let's stick a pin in this.  Blooming, would you want to still be with him right now, as he is and with the behaviour you experienced prior to and after the breakup?  Knowing that he cheats, lies, and disrespects you by expecting sex at the drop of a hat after you've told him that it wouldn't be good for you?  Does that sound like a healthy r/s to be in for you?

Love and light x

[blooming]

It's self preservation.  A bit like the way it's said that when we find fault with people, to some degree that fault can be a reflection of a behaviour of our own which we dislike. 

Well with a BPD sufferer it's a way to literally deny to themselves that they are this way and instead apply this behaviour to someone else so they can be rid of it.  He HAS to believe it, as otherwise that would be like admitting to himself that he is flawed and therefore is bad/wrong.  Which equals shame.  It would be too difficult for him to admit to himself (because it's about him, not you) that he is self absorbed and doesn't consider your needs.  Deep down he actually knows that's the case but it's more than he can tolerate accepting.  He is exonerating himself from being the one who has made demands.  At the same time, your refusal to fall in line and be at his beck and call when he pushed for intimate contact after your breakup is seen by him as you only considering your needs not his.  It could be a way of him getting into your head.  (It's done the trick because you're thinking about it.)   

Ah yes that makes a lot of sense! The way you describe it, it's crazy that I let it get to me. Because it isn't really weird that I won't meet his demands, since what he's expecting of me isn't something you could expect from a person in this situation.

Interestingly though, there have been moments where he does seem to see his own part in this. In the conversations we had in May, he once said that he was sorry for thinking so selfishly and that he knew it wasn't right that he expected me to be there for him when he needed me. But maybe that was just a tactic he was trying out. Because when he says something like that I almost instinctively say "oh no you don't have to be sorry I understand" etc.

The quote from the workshop seems to really fit with his behaviour indeed.

Back to you, where we need to focus.  Because you're the one who needs to be keeping yourself as emotionally safe as you can if you plan to meet him.

Let's stick a pin in this.  Blooming, would you want to still be with him right now, as he is and with the behaviour you experienced prior to and after the breakup?  Knowing that he cheats, lies, and disrespects you by expecting sex at the drop of a hat after you've told him that it wouldn't be good for you?  Does that sound like a healthy r/s to be in for you?

Love and light x

Yes, I'll meet him tomorrow evening, so I have to prepare myself as well as I possibly can. I need to make sure that the mean comments he'll maybe make won't get to me as much as they could.

But that's a good question to ask HQ. If you state it like that it sounds almost ridiculous to answer yes, so I won't. After everything that has happened I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with him anymore. Still, an almost instnat thought is that I caused that behaviour in him and that maybe, if I behaved differently, had been like his soulmate ex, maybe even better, that he'd still be with me now and all the cheating and lying and disrespecting wouldn't have happened.

[Harley Quinn]

I hear you Blooming.  The what if's are a totally natural and expected part of the process.  If you skipped that part it would be an anomaly!  However, I must point out that bending yourself into a pretzel isn't necessary in a normal and emotionally healthy r/s.  Even if you did that, the reality is that he would still dysregulate, because that is part of his condition.  You would never be able to keep a steady, consistent, peaceful, loving r/s free of drama and all of the other behaviour you've encountered, and trying to achieve the unachievable is a recipe for serious stress, anxiety and ill health both physically and emotionally.  He has a distinct pattern and has shown you his true colours.  I've read here many times that no matter what you do, something will trigger the disorder.  It can be entirely in his mind and I think we can all agree that reading that mind is an impossibility.

I must remind you that the soulmate ex left him for her own wellbeing.  That much I can glean from her mentioning her hair.  He stressed her out during the r/s and her comment about the hair indicates that she was relieved to be free of the behaviour she experienced.  Likelihood is that he had the upper hand in the other breakups, whether they left because he pushed them to or he left before they could.  It is very possible that he does have some sort of a different level of respect perhaps for her as she didn't take his nonsense after a point and checked out.  Maybe his experience with his other gf's was a big contrast to that.  He may see her as the one that got away.  Just as he may see you as that in the future by your assertion that you won't break your boundary and take him back or be physically intimate again.  At the end of the day, if this man is bad for you and you recognise that had you stayed with him it would mean further destruction to your self esteem, possibly all kinds of other dysfunction, then not being with him for as long as someone else is a gift.  Being with him longer would only have brought you more pain Blooming.

I won't try to convince you that you're the best thing since sliced bread, since it is your core belief which drives these feelings and when you believe you are not as good as someone else, then nothing anyone says to counter that will work to change your mind.  So instead I'll suggest that when you have these thoughts that you remind yourself that you are better off not being with him.  He is not to be trusted and would cause you more hurt.  You need to tell yourself what you need to hear in order to move through the discomfort of the thoughts and feelings and turn your attention to something else.  In the case of speaking to him tomorrow, I'd encourage you to turn your thoughts to protecting yourself.

This is what you agreed is what your inner voice is wanting to say:

You would want to tell him that you are glad the first r/s happened and that you wish you'd both left it at that when it ended.  To tell him he hurt you after that and that's not OK.  Things being over between you is for the best.  That you're now moving on with your life and focusing on your own happiness.  That you wish the same for him and you remain firm that nothing will happen between you romantically again as you are protecting yourself from further hurt and that will not change.   

What do you think from the above you can say when you sit with him?  Which of these points stands out to you as being the most important message your confident self wants to deliver?  Maybe try to imagine this is the last time you'll ever speak to him.  What is essential for him to hear so that you can feel a little peace knowing you put that over?

Love and light x

[blooming]

I hear you Blooming.  The what if's are a totally natural and expected part of the process.  If you skipped that part it would be an anomaly!  However, I must point out that bending yourself into a pretzel isn't necessary in a normal and emotionally healthy r/s.  Even if you did that, the reality is that he would still dysregulate, because that is part of his condition.  You would never be able to keep a steady, consistent, peaceful, loving r/s free of drama and all of the other behaviour you've encountered, and trying to achieve the unachievable is a recipe for serious stress, anxiety and ill health both physically and emotionally.  He has a distinct pattern and has shown you his true colours.  I've read here many times that no matter what you do, something will trigger the disorder.  It can be entirely in his mind and I think we can all agree that reading that mind is an impossibility.

Yes you're right. I recently spoke to one of his exes, who was with him for a year when they were 16 and they also dated for a year in 2015 (when he cheated on his soulmate ex with her) and she said that he already did that when they were 16, the controlling part. That he would be angry when she spent a day with her parents instead of him or when she went to the birthday of a friend he didn't like. That with her current boyfriend it's totally different. That they both have their own lives and their own friends and their own hobbies and that that's totally fine.

But still, I did things I am not proud of. Like being disappointed when he couldn't meet up one evening even though normally I was mostly the one who had other plans or commitments so I wasn't really allowed to think anything of it, because he always had more time than me. That's something he still holds against me.

And like that I shared my insecurities with him, which must have been hard for him. Of course he'd rather have a girlfriend who loves herself and is confident and happy.

I must remind you that the soulmate ex left him for her own wellbeing.  That much I can glean from her mentioning her hair.  He stressed her out during the r/s and her comment about the hair indicates that she was relieved to be free of the behaviour she experienced.  Likelihood is that he had the upper hand in the other breakups, whether they left because he pushed them to or he left before they could.  It is very possible that he does have some sort of a different level of respect perhaps for her as she didn't take his nonsense after a point and checked out.  Maybe his experience with his other gf's was a big contrast to that.  He may see her as the one that got away.  Just as he may see you as that in the future by your assertion that you won't break your boundary and take him back or be physically intimate again.  At the end of the day, if this man is bad for you and you recognise that had you stayed with him it would mean further destruction to your self esteem, possibly all kinds of other dysfunction, then not being with him for as long as someone else is a gift.  Being with him longer would only have brought you more pain Blooming.

But still, she must have done something better or differently. Because all his other relationships never really lasted longer than a year and his relationship with her lasted 3 years (not consecutively, but still). I wish I knew what it was. What was so amazing about her.

I won't try to convince you that you're the best thing since sliced bread, since it is your core belief which drives these feelings and when you believe you are not as good as someone else, then nothing anyone says to counter that will work to change your mind.  So instead I'll suggest that when you have these thoughts that you remind yourself that you are better off not being with him.  He is not to be trusted and would cause you more hurt.  You need to tell yourself what you need to hear in order to move through the discomfort of the thoughts and feelings and turn your attention to something else.  In the case of speaking to him tomorrow, I'd encourage you to turn your thoughts to protecting yourself.

This is what you agreed is what your inner voice is wanting to say:

You would want to tell him that you are glad the first r/s happened and that you wish you'd both left it at that when it ended.  To tell him he hurt you after that and that's not OK.  Things being over between you is for the best.  That you're now moving on with your life and focusing on your own happiness.  That you wish the same for him and you remain firm that nothing will happen between you romantically again as you are protecting yourself from further hurt and that will not change.   

What do you think from the above you can say when you sit with him?  Which of these points stands out to you as being the most important message your confident self wants to deliver?  Maybe try to imagine this is the last time you'll ever speak to him.  What is essential for him to hear so that you can feel a little peace knowing you put that over?

Love and light x

Yes, I should definitely try to protect myself tonight. To try to not let it get to me too much if he starts saying mean and hurtful things again.

I think the strongest point I want to get across is that he hurt me and that's not OK. And that we should let eachother go for good now and that I ask him to not contact me in that way anymore, because he has no idea what kind of impact it has on me. That I'm sorry that he didn't feel good, but that he shouldn't forget that I wasn't feeling good either and that that the cause of my not feeling good was our break-up, so that seeing him would only hurt me more and that I was trying to protect myself from that. That what he has done to me has caused me great pain and that I want to leave that behind me. That I wish him all the best and that I do not hold it against him and that I hope he understands me and doesn't hold it against me either.

Something like that. I'm really nervous for tonight though. I really don't want the conversation to escalate or for the mood to sour between us again. So I should be really careful with what I'm saying and how I'm saying it I think.

[Harley Quinn]

I think the strongest point I want to get across is that he hurt me and that's not OK. And that we should let eachother go for good now and that I ask him to not contact me in that way anymore, because he has no idea what kind of impact it has on me. That I'm sorry that he didn't feel good, but that he shouldn't forget that I wasn't feeling good either and that that the cause of my not feeling good was our break-up, so that seeing him would only hurt me more and that I was trying to protect myself from that. That what he has done to me has caused me great pain and that I want to leave that behind me. That I wish him all the best and that I do not hold it against him and that I hope he understands me and doesn't hold it against me either.

You got this!    Let us know how things go. 

You're meeting in a public place?  That is the wise way to go.  Also, a tip is to decide just exactly what is more than you are prepared to accept.  When that line is hit, you are well within your rights to say this is not OK and he can speak to you differently or else you will be getting going.  If he continues, politely end the conversation and say goodbye.  Planning ahead allows you to be prepared to safeguard yourself.

Love and light x