Is there any hope of making amends or closure?

[Elmurr]

Hello fellow bpdfamily-ers, I need some advice.

It’s been over a year since I last saw my ex and since then we have had email interactions once every 3/4 months. These have never been nice, no matter how nice I am everything she says seems intended to make me feel guilty and to tell me how happy she is in her new life or with a new man.

These interactions have started for various reasons. Once I saw her mum in town and I waved at her. Two days later she emailed me telling me to not dare smile and wave at her mum because she hates me and they all hate me.

Then one night near Xmas she messaged me saying “hey want to get together?”  When I replied the next day she said she had no memory of sending it in her drunken state and that it was meant for her boyfriend. She had thought of me that day so it must have been a “Freudian slip” - her words.

Then in February she emailed me asking me if we wanted to meet up. I didn’t reply for a week and when I did she told me she that she’d changed her mind and that she’d never forgive me. When I asked her what she needed to forgive me for she never replied.

Then three weeks ago she text me from a new number saying “hey what are you doing this evening”.

I responded yesterday by email (I deleted her message and the number) in a brief light hearted way and asked no questions. I haven’t heard back.

I so badly want to have an interaction with her where we can be nice to each other and in some way make peace. I struggle most with understanding how It ever got like this between us. Was I duped all along?

I have just about come to the acceptance that I will never get any apology or admission of responsibility from her. So my question is, is there any point in hoping to achieve any form of closure, and asking her if there’s anyway we can talk now it’s been over a year and the emotions have died down a bit, and try to bring our hearts slightly closer together again and relieve some of the difficulty I have in there being so much hatred between us? I struggle so much with the fact that not once in a year has she ever made a move to show some ownership of the issues in our relationship or to provide any sort of closure to me.

She left very abruptly, moved away to the other side of London, and despite us spending all our time together until the day she moved, since the day she moved I have heard nothing from her, apart from aggression. It’s left me with enormous emotional scars like none I have ever come close to experiencing before.

Thanks

[gotbushels]

Elmurr  

It’s left me with enormous emotional scars like none I have ever come close to experiencing before.

Yes, these relationships tend to leave the non with higher amounts of pain and suffering than other relationships with people without BPD.

I struggle so much with the fact that not once in a year has she ever made a move to show some ownership of the issues in our relationship or to provide any sort of closure to me.

You're not alone on struggling with this. Many nons here struggle to 'get' the pwBPD in their lives to 'take responsibility' for things. Perhaps like someone to get a permanent grip on water without a container.

She had thought of me that day so it must have been a “Freudian slip” - her words.

Ironic.  

Then one night near Xmas she messaged me saying “hey want to get together?”

Then in February she emailed me asking me if we wanted to meet up.

Then three weeks ago she text me from a new number saying “hey what are you doing this evening”.

OK, this background makes sense.

I so badly want to have an interaction with her where we can be nice to each other and in some way make peace. I struggle most with understanding how It ever got like this between us. Was I duped all along?

OK. You want to have an interaction with her that will fit your view of what seems to be 'closure'. Will you look at this and then perhaps share why you want this so severely? There's nothing wrong with wanting this by the way, many people do.

is there any point in hoping to achieve any form of closure, and asking her if there’s anyway we can talk now it’s been over a year and the emotions have died down a bit, and try to bring our hearts slightly closer together again and relieve some of the difficulty I have in there being so much hatred between us?

OK, with reference to your thread title "Is there any hope of making amends or closure?", it seems as if the idea of 'closure' to you is you 'make peace' with your ideas of the relationship. Step back, recall all the traumatic instances in addition to the 'good things' you may be considering. With that in mind, do you think you can get feelings of peace from another person, in this case, your ex? I honestly don't know what you think, so I'm asking.  

[Shawnlam]

Hello fellow bpdfamily-ers, I need some advice.

It’s been over a year since I last saw my ex and since then we have had email interactions once every 3/4 months. These have never been nice, no matter how nice I am everything she says seems intended to make me feel guilty and to tell me how happy she is in her new life or with a new man.

These interactions have started for various reasons. Once I saw her mum in town and I waved at her. Two days later she emailed me telling me to not dare smile and wave at her mum because she hates me and they all hate me.

Then one night near Xmas she messaged me saying “hey want to get together?”  When I replied the next day she said she had no memory of sending it in her drunken state and that it was meant for her boyfriend. She had thought of me that day so it must have been a “Freudian slip” - her words.

Then in February she emailed me asking me if we wanted to meet up. I didn’t reply for a week and when I did she told me she that she’d changed her mind and that she’d never forgive me. When I asked her what she needed to forgive me for she never replied.

Then three weeks ago she text me from a new number saying “hey what are you doing this evening”.

I responded yesterday by email (I deleted her message and the number) in a brief light hearted way and asked no questions. I haven’t heard back.

I so badly want to have an interaction with her where we can be nice to each other and in some way make peace. I struggle most with understanding how It ever got like this between us. Was I duped all along?

I have just about come to the acceptance that I will never get any apology or admission of responsibility from her. So my question is, is there any point in hoping to achieve any form of closure, and asking her if there’s anyway we can talk now it’s been over a year and the emotions have died down a bit, and try to bring our hearts slightly closer together again and relieve some of the difficulty I have in there being so much hatred between us? I struggle so much with the fact that not once in a year has she ever made a move to show some ownership of the issues in our relationship or to provide any sort of closure to me.

She left very abruptly, moved away to the other side of London, and despite us spending all our time together until the day she moved, since the day she moved I have heard nothing from her, apart from aggression. It’s left me with enormous emotional scars like none I have ever come close to experiencing before.

Thanks

Expecting any apology or admission of guilt is futile and honestly not a good way to reconnect if your goal is to be amicable together as friends or past acquaintances that left on good terms .Under normal circumstances with someone that doesn’t have BPD it would be a hard accomplishment and almost impossible.My two cents is to take the high road ,I recently accomplished exactly what you are trying to do .My therapist explained to me shawn “looking for closure the way you are trying to is elementary at best “.Take the high road ,reach out in a nice way just asking how she is doing and do it for genuine reasons “actually checking to see how she is doing and wish her well”. If she has BPD or a mix of the cluster b’s you are dealing with someone mentally ill and the best way to help them is to be nice to them .What happened to us does not pertain to the immediate situation it’s just something you and I will have to deal with ,here,with friends ,family,therapy.

The best thing you can do is work on yourself learn how it affected you and why ,fix what you can .If you read the thousands of stories on the internet , there is one thing in common(once you weed out the extreme anger towards individuals with BPD ,and the ones people can’t wrap their head around and won’t that BPD can’t be fixed with love).The main point that all have is that a piece of us the (non BPD’s) was taken and won’t come back .We aren’t “broken” we are as far as I’m concerned “smarter” than before (those who chose to see the only plausible positive from this).You now  have a piece of armor around your soul and heart that most likely will warn you (red flag) you ,the next time  you even sense issues way before they affect you.Those new tools you have are a life lesson learnt and nobody can take that away from you now.
Being mad at them is taking the easy road of nothing learnt .Always remember they suffer daily always have ,always will unless they seek treatment which is not likely.We on the other hand will and are suffering now but we will come out stronger .To get those highs and love from our ex partner to those extremes was the unnatural parts and we all knew it while it was happening.Ive read tons of stories and more often than not we all said somewhere in our beginning stories ( something was just off but I didn’t care because it was too fantastic).So I can say today I was selfish in then emotional highs I was getting and kept going with it thinking she was my soulmate.
In final to go back to your initial point , you need to decide what you want here going forward.I can only guide you here in saying: now that you know a lot more about BPD/npd traits , would you really want someone like that back into your life? Would you or could you (being honest to yourself) expect or even ask for an apology? And if you somehow got one ,what would it be worth in reality? If you want closure is that something for you or is it more a tactic to keep your foot in the door? A way of staying visible in hopes she comes back and the good times return ?
I can say for myself that after a month of NC me and my ex spoke by email Wednesday.I asked her how she was doing (I’ve heard some bad things),and she reached back out and answered .That was enough for me to know she’s ok , and enough for me to move on and be happy .No date,no meal , no meet up, just me wanting to know how she was and was answered.Then I simply let things be because that was all I wanted to hear as info .
Once you make up your mind which road you will take for healing, which way or how you want to have this ex partner in your life ,it all comes down to which light you chose to see them in .Good,bad,sad,evil,grey zone,as a human being,as a definition of a disorder,vengeful... .etc you get my drift ?

[Elmurr]

Thank you both for your responses.

As a general reply, in the past year I have made huge improvements. It doesn't hurt anything like as much as it did, at all! But I still ruminate and have painful emotions pretty much every hour. After a year. That is driving me crazy. And there's no end in sight. I have no idea how to get there.

Gotbushels, the truth is I do recognise the traumatic experiences and how awful things became. I remind myself daily. What I struggle with is accepting that that is who she was all along, or whether it is only me that brought that out in her. I also struggle to understand how she can be content leaving it so badly; perhaps because she feels in control now.


Shawnlam, sadly the high-road doesn't work with her either. Her response to the high road is suspicion and aggression. Nothing works with her, literally. The level of indifference she shows now, after the obsession she showed throughout the relationship, is impossible for my mind to compute. This I think is where I am really stuck. She enjoys seeing me hurt, and that I truly struggle with. I have never hated, or been hated by anyone before in my life - and to have a year pass without a change of heart? It made me feel like a terrible person for the best part of a year, and only recently am I starting to find myself again. All my previous girlfriends and I are absolutely fine with each other.

Additionally, I don't know if she has BPD. She isn't diagnosed. She doesn't think she's crazy, her description of herself was "I'm not crazy! I'm just firey and a difficult person - YOU are the problem! My ONLY problem"". And she adds that she is fine with everyone else but me, and that she is incredibly happy now.

It doesn't matter how much I read on BPD, I don't have a diagnosis, and I can't understand how that even after over a year, there can be no let up in her complete change of character towards me. Days before she left she told me she loved me, and she works with a friend of mine and she said "I couldn't bare seeing Will everyday knowing he sees you", and then days later she never wants to see me again and tells me she never loved me. Figure that one out. I'm trying to, and that's where I'm stuck in this loop.

The truth is, I don't want her back in my life. I really don't. She is truly impossible. the past cannot be undone. I want to erase every memory of her. I can't even look at a photo of her, and the thought of seeing her is horrible because I am so angry at her, and I simultaneously find her agonisingly physically attractive - a very destructive combination.

I just want an adult conversation with her, to understand what happened, so that I don't ruminate anymore, and can actually move on with some understanding.

I want to understand if this was who she was all along, and what happened in our relationship. What was going through her head.

I would never have contacted her again. Never. But she messages me every few months, and I want that to stop too. Because every time she does, I'm back here again with the old tapes playing in my head again!

[Elmurr]

Also, does anyone have any guesses as to why she would message me randomly saying "Hey what are you doing this evening?" over whatsapp, when we haven't spoken for 4 months, and haven't sent a message any other way than email for over a year? It's so random. No "hey how are you". Just, what are you doing later.

She can't say that she meant to send it to her boyfriend (if she has one) this time either, because she would have to have typed in my phone number. Any ideas?

I don't know what the response would have been if id said "nothing, what are you up to?". Probably, something dismissive.

[MeandThee29]

From all that I've read and been told, any kind of closure is very unlikely apart from coming to some level of peace in your own mind. I do believe in miracles and still pray that way, but realistically, no. It's the breakup that is more than a breakup.

They will be utterly roasting you one day, and then praising you to the skies the next. And if you say that you can't process that about face, they'll say that you have mental health issues and are messed up.

If I met mine for a meal to "catch up," it would turn into yet another exercise in proving how horrible I am with yet another discard. I miss him every day, but relationships don't work this way.

You can try a meeting as long as you have reasonable expectations. Given the February interactions, you have to expect more of the same.

[Shawnlam]

Also, does anyone have any guesses as to why she would message me randomly saying "Hey what are you doing this evening?" over whatsapp, when we haven't spoken for 4 months, and haven't sent a message any other way than email for over a year? It's so random. No "hey how are you". Just, what are you doing later.

She can't say that she meant to send it to her boyfriend (if she has one) this time either, because she would have to have typed in my phone number. Any ideas?

I don't know what the response would have been if id said "nothing, what are you up to?". Probably, something dismissive.

If you  read up on BPD it’s not uncommon at all that they reach out.They live in a present emotional state so when she reached out it was most likely a combination of the following: something happened with present bf so she was thinking dark with him and needed to feel attention elsewhere “you”.Why? Because at that moment that was what it was ,1hr later ,24hrs later who knows , you were no longer required (that is of course IF she has BPD ).It could also just be a normal woman who likes playing games ... .honestly don’t let it bother you if she’s playing games like that don’t respond she will move on to another guy in her phone.If she is just saying hi how are you I don’t see that as bad or her trying to get back with you.The main problem I see a lot of is people presuming that someone with BPD who reaches out instantly wants a recycle which isn’t the case all the time they are in fact human beings and sometimes they just wanna know how we are doing.

[Elmurr]

Changing her mind rapidly is literally one of her defining characteristics. One day after the break up we'd made progress, and then a few hours later out of nowhere, she messaged me saying "no, I don't know what I was thinking, it was a moment of weakness, if that's love then I don't want it".

Similarly with her message close to xmas when she told me she'd meant to send it to her boyfriend, there is no way that she could accidentally email me rather than text her new one.

It's love / hate. And that's it. She even decided she hated her dog after she moved because it didn't show enough attention when she went home. She loves it again now though.

[MeandThee29]

Yes, I believe completely that they want human connection. We all do.

But then sustaining it with someone they have history with is another matter. That's the rub.

[gotbushels]

What I struggle with is accepting that that is who she was all along, or whether it is only me that brought that out in her.

In the BPD context, symptoms tend to show up in dynamics between the pwBPD and the people closest to them. There's reasons why that is, and if you want to dig into this, what works is going through it with a T or picking apart your portions in specific conversations you had with your ex.

I also struggle to understand how she can be content leaving it so badly (... .)

I'm not disagreeing with this, so 'badly' is your assessment of it.  Some of these relationships end not necessarily what we expect as 'civilised'. Looking at it in the BPD context, 'A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships', to her, what might matter is that you are one of the pieces in the string. pwBPDs seem to maintain a series of these relationships in order to persist with whatever system they're operating on. To put it another way, she is not you. You might be content with one thing, she may be content with another. Does that make sense?

Additionally, I don't know if she has BPD.

Many people don't know here either. My ex didn't get a dx that I knew about. What mattered was it was good enough for me and whatever I tried that dealt with BPD seemed to fit and give me striking results.

Days before she left she told me she loved me, and she works with a friend of mine and she said "I couldn't bare seeing Will everyday knowing he sees you", and then days later she never wants to see me again and tells me she never loved me. Figure that one out. I'm trying to, and that's where I'm stuck in this loop.

She changes her mind. pwBPDs tend to go to extremes with their 'appraisals' of people. To me, this is a similar conclusion to someone operating on an idealisation/devaluation way of thinking. So if we combine that with a self image that isn't stable or consistent, and that would result in more volatility in appraisals. Again, she is not you. She doesn't operate like you. I say it doesn't matter whether she fits your definition of BPD or not, the point here is that she has this shifty appraisal of you that doesn't benefit you. The easier way to look at this is basically to envision her thought process as a person on quicksand trying to build ideas--the foundation is always shifting, so the building can't have a structure that persists over time. Make sense?

I think if you're still stuck in this loop, stop and ask yourself what does Elmurr gain from figuring this out?



We're here to support each other as members, so I think it might help to get practical here.

The truth is, I don't want her back in my life.

I just want an adult conversation with her (... .)

Can you see that your want to not have her in your life is at conflict with your wanting to have conversations with her?

... .so that I don't ruminate anymore ... .

Can you see that a path to you not ruminating may have nothing to do with her?

But she messages me every few months, and I want that to stop too. Because every time she does, I'm back here again with the old tapes playing in my head again!

So you want to stop reading her messages. What can you do to make this happen?

[Elmurr]

Ha, no she is definitely not me. I suppose I couldn't understand her behaviours during the relationship: the suicide threats if left her or didn't text back, the stalking, lying about being pregnant, lying about having cancer, cheating on me and rubbing it in my face and blaming me, keying my car and then lying to the police and so on. So if I couldn't understand her when I was with her, how can I understand her now?

I can clearly remember the frustration I felt, trying so many times to make her see how her behaviour was not normal and not ok. She could never see it.

I think she is probably content leaving it the way she did because she broke me down, completely. I behaved as badly as her at the very end, and I think she knew she'd won. That was enough for her. Game over. I had no worth anymore. All attraction vanished. The last time I saw her she attacked me, and I broke my hand on her bedroom door. She told people I'd hit her. Which is exactly what she wanted me to do. She told me she'd only wanted me because I was unobtainable. At the end, I had lost myself completely, and it was boring for her.

I struggle with the fact that it was maintained for 3.5 years, the idealisation, and then I see the devaluation going on for the last few months, and then everything was extinguished in a matter of days. She last threatened suicide 3 months before the end and then the devaluation started in full force. She started sleeping with a colleague, and the abuse became so extreme. She wouldn't let me go five minutes without responding or there was hell to pay, and then overnight never spoke to me again.

I have asked her what I ever did to her that was so bad, but she will never tell me. She just ignores me.

Can you see that your want to not have her in your life is at conflict with your wanting to have conversations with her?

I want to have a conversation with her, on the phone ideally, so that I can get her out of my head. She is a huge part of my life right now solely within my head.

So you want to stop reading her messages. What can you do to make this happen?

Well last month I met an Irish girl in Mexico and we spent three weeks travelling together without an hour apart. I was with her when my ex sent me her last message. Me and her actually have a really good thing going now. And I truly have no desire to ever have my ex in my life again, but the bitterness of the whole thing, and the injustice is incredibly difficult to swallow. And the annoying thing is I find her creeping into my thoughts when I'm with the new girl.

Anyway, I emailed the ex again this afternoon saying to not send me random messages anymore. I don't want them, or anything to do with her, not even quarterly "hey wanna meet up"s. I said I'd tried to be amicable and make peace, but she clearly has no interest in doing so. I told her I suspected that she messaged me because she'd fallen out with her boyfriend and that she needs to stop having love/hate relationships, she had one with a guy whilst I knew her early on, and it just seems to repeat. I told her I was with the Irish girl when I received the message and it isn't fair on her for me to be receiving messages from someone that she knows caused so much trouble in my past. And that was it.

Of course, she didn't reply. Which angers me inevitably, but not like it used to. I just realise that I'm talking to somebody who I have no idea who they are. Who they ever were.

[gotbushels]

Ha, no she is definitely not me.

Outstanding that you can see this.   

While this is ongoing, I encourage you to figure out more what this all has to do with you, and what you can do about it. This is a place for your "Processing, Creative Action, and Freedom."

So if I couldn't understand her when I was with her, how can I understand her now?

Yes, there are a lot of behaviours that destroy relationships you've been a part of with her. Will your understanding be helpful why she did things be helpful to you in your recovery?

I can clearly remember the frustration I felt, trying so many times to make her see how her behaviour was not normal and not ok. She could never see it.

Yes, I think this is a common issue with nons in recovery.

Consider a lighthouse. It stands on the shore with its beckoning light, guiding ships safely into the harbor. The lighthouse can’t uproot itself, wade out into the water, grab the ship by the stern, and say, “Listen, you fool! If you stay on this path, you may break up on the rocks!”

When you are trying to make her do something, that's basically the lighthouse grabbing the ship. Does this make sense?

I want to have a conversation with her, on the phone ideally, so that I can get her out of my head. She is a huge part of my life right now solely within my head.

So before you want her out of your life, you want to talk to her. You already established talking does nothing for you practically and relationally, see this:

(... .) trying so many times to make her see (... .) She could never see it.

(... .) but she will never tell me. She just ignores me.

So not only does the communication--in another word, to talk to each other--do nothing for you, it seems to actually frustrate you:

I had lost myself completely
(... .)
She just ignores me.
(... .)
she didn't reply. Which angers me inevitably

Moreover the relationship built on the communication you had with her was taken to a level you consider as abuse.

the abuse became so extreme

So if communicating with this person--however you're doing it, results in this abuse, isn't pursuing the communication here contributing to your own self-abuse?

So you want to stop reading her messages. What can you do to make this happen?

Well last month I met an Irish girl in Mexico
(... .)
Me and her actually have a really good thing going now.
(... .)
And the annoying thing is I find her creeping into my thoughts when I'm with the new girl.

Good--that you have a new relationship. You know Elmurr, we all have thoughts about our exs. Something that helps me and others is to practice radical acceptance during these times. I think that will change the thoughts of your ex from a creeping into a just being. Try it out--the video is only 2 minutes.

Anyway, I emailed the ex again this afternoon saying to not send me random messages anymore.

Good, you decided that stopping the messages (which you've established is what you do want) could use your speaking up to stop them. You put an email together to make this happen for yourself.

I just realise that I'm talking to somebody who I have no idea who they are. Who they ever were.

Well, yes, it can happen to you, it's happened to nons before, this reimagining of what their partners actually are. It can feel very disconcerting at first, that discovery--but I think the image of the person you arrive at later is a more complete representation of what the person is. If that happens then it's a good thing.   

Ok, so there's other things you can do. What else can you do on this, other than telling her what you want her to do.

So you want to stop reading her messages. What can you do to make this happen?

Alongside all this, Elmurr I think a T can help you figure this out. It's recommended that partners of the pwBPD obtain the service of one as additional support. BPD is complex. Have you considered looking for one?

[Elmurr]

Thanks Gotbushels, I really appreciate your responses.

So before you want her out of your life, you want to talk to her. You already established talking does nothing for you practically and relationally, see this:

There is no value in conversations now. Nothing I say will ever be responded to in a normal way. It is all a power struggle. She has power now, and she will never let it go. That's something I've started to accept. The value of compassion is considerably less than that of power it seems.

I'd never been in a controlling relationship, and I'm not controlling. I didn't even really know what controlling behaviour looked like in a relationship. I am the polar opposite of controlling, and I had never been jealous in a relationship before. I think that's how I let it go on. But similarly, I didn't let her control me; which I believe is the crux of our power struggle.

Since this relationship I have come to the belief that when a controlling person can't control someone, they believe the other person is controlling them.

I would also say that when a jealous person can't elicit jealousy in another, they feel inferior and controlled. This leads them to strive to make their partner jealous. Cue triangulation.

I would extend the above so far as to say that when a controlling, jealous, or overly insecure person can't elicit the same expressions of emotion in another person, they in fact view the other person as being abusive.

Perhaps there is something in those last three statements that sheds some light on why she feels the way about me that she does. I was the opposite of jealous, the opposite of controlling, I didn't show that I cared enough. When she managed to make me jealous by cheating in clear sight, and when she could elicit an emotional response from me, her attraction to me vanished. So there must be something in that.

When she left me, she posted a message on instagram that read "when a toxic person can no longer control you, they will try to control how others see you... .". The mind boggles with the hypocrisy. And people believe her!

She genuinely believes she is the victim. It's frightening.

[once removed]

Since this relationship I have come to the belief that when a controlling person can't control someone, they believe the other person is controlling them.

It is all a power struggle. She has power now, and she will never let it go.

Elmurr,

i think when a relationship ends, so does the power struggle with our partners. if a power struggle exists, its in our minds and hearts - with ourselves, and letting go. so often, it carries over from the relationship; the hurts we had, that we feel werent heard.

I struggle so much with the fact that not once in a year has she ever made a move to show some ownership of the issues in our relationship or to provide any sort of closure to me.

so this is the struggle. you can name it. you can work with it. i can tell you at around a year out, i struggled with similar things... .in my case, it was my ideas about "justice" and wanting her to know i knew some things she thought i didnt know; i wanted to "bust" her. this was just the latest version of the old baggage and hurts from a relationship i still struggled to completely detach from and let go of.

in another relationship, i didnt feel i got a fair shot. i wanted a do over, even when she had moved on to a new relationship.

i came to realize that the truth is, in a breakup, neither party is in much of a position to heal the other partys wounds. but sometimes one or both parties will try, still trying to be heard and have the wounds from the relationship be acknowledged and healed by the other person... .just an extension of the relationship really.

I want to understand if this was who she was all along, and what happened in our relationship. What was going through her head.

i would advise you to do two things:

1. reread your old posts, refresh your memory a bit with the perspective of some time and distance
2. start a new thread on that subject with some new questions... .we can help you walk through it.

my narrative changed many times as i detached. even after i had detached from the pain, it took a few years and several efforts for me to really see how things broke down in terms of human nature, and what my role was, and what hers was. some of it was pretty humbling, but ultimately it was freeing. in order to do that though, i had to fully grieve the relationship first.

[Lostinanother]

Elmurr,

It makes me sad to see you back here and “relapsing” somewhat after you gave me such amazing advice. You understood these women better than most. It really is akin to trying to quit a highly addictive drug.

I left this website for a few months because I felt it was hindering my recovery and it was making me relapse into the pit of asking myself many questions about what happened... .


If someone stabbed you and robbed you and felt no guilt about it and no remorse or no empathy would you try to make them a friend?
No! You wouldn’t. You would avoid that person at all costs.

I would be lying if I said I don’t think about my ex everyday but it’s now from a cold detached position... .I stopped asking questions about it. There are no answers... .Only more questions.

I’m luckily in a new relationship where in the beginning I was completely open and honest about how messed I am because of my ex and luckily I have a woman now who is patient, kind and understanding... .But I am still angry at my ex that she messed me up so bad.

She messaged me on SNS and I’ve had a few calls from a withheld number all of which have been ignored... .Why? Because she is just bored and cycling again and I have no wish to ever go down that rabbit hole again.

Go back and read all of your earlier posts, your ex woman was a pretty despicable person and you have to ask yourself what she can actually add to your life if you let her back in? I think you’ll find if you make friends with her or hear from her again she will only bring you down to the bottom again.

Chin up, keep moving forward, stop reading the people on this forum ( who are stuck in misery obsessing over people who emotionally mortally wounded them... .No offense intended everyone), make that woman a bitter memory and keep her that way. The future is brighter without her and you know that Elmurr

Good luck bro!

[Lostinanother]

Also to add, the reason she is contacting you is because she is bored and she still wants to see if she affects you. Is she still winning? Are the hooks still in?

The only way to win Elmurr, is to move on, and make a happier, better relationship, if she texts you ~ ignore it, make her wonder about you, make her feel like she has lost. Put up a happy couples pic on your Facebook and make her feel like she has lost and when she messages you ignore it all all costs.

That’s all you’ve left to do.
Stop asking questions. Sometimes the car crash happens and there are no questions to be answered. Sometimes sh!t happens... .

[gotbushels]

Thank you for your kind words to the discussion here Lostinanother  

Elmurr    for this part here--another way to look at these issues is see that you may see some familiar patterns; but see that you're not doing the same things over again. Most people have a sense of self that will move forward, and that's the other way to look at this.

To share--even if I had 10+ breakups with my exupwBPDgf, not every breakup was the same, I remember there were 'easy' ones and 'horrific' ones. The point is that the non grows, moves forward, and hopefully improves. The separations may happen, but there's a part of the non that moves forward through each--that part is constant.  

“relapsing”

Like Lostinanother, I encourage you to give these things their resolution.  

Enjoy your weekend.

[Lostinanother]

One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where she lived and decided that she wanted a change. So she set out on a journey through the forests and hills. She climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until she reached a river.
The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. She couldn't see any way across... .

Suddenly, she saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. She decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.
"Helloo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"
"Well now, Miss Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.
"Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"
Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"
"This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"
"Alright then... .how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.
"Ahh... .," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?"
So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, her sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.
Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove her stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.
"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"
The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.
"I could not help myself. I’m a scorpion.”
Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.

[Shawnlam]

One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where she lived and decided that she wanted a change. So she set out on a journey through the forests and hills. She climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until she reached a river.
The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. She couldn't see any way across... .

Suddenly, she saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. She decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.
"Helloo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"
"Well now, Miss Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.
"Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"
Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"
"This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"
"Alright then... .how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.
"Ahh... .," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?"
So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, her sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.
Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove her stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.
"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"
The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.
"I could not help myself. I’m a scorpion.”
Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.

Good story and good example

[Elmurr]

Hi Lostinanother

Very glad to hear about your new relationship!

I am so much better than I have been at any point in the last 14 or so months. Her contacting me pissed me off of course and made me want to get closure again, but then you realise that they sadly are exactly the sort of horrible human being you've been reading about on websites like this and on others. This, along with talking to friends who have known me for well over 10 years and who share their opinions of the girl, make you realise just how blind I was to it all. When they tell me about the times they talked to her at parties and about the weird things she'd ask, like all the prying for dirt, and you think "thank god she's gone!", and you realise that actually, you knew all along. Obviously I knew she was mentally unstable, but I believed the crap that came out of her mouth because I believed that when people said something, they meant it. That is a catastrophic mistake and a level of naivety about human psychology that I expect many people that have gone through this share.

Where I used to struggle to go 15 minutes without thinking about her in a day, now I would estimate that the total time I spend thinking about her each day is about 15-30 minutes, if you take all the short moments when she pops into my head. 6 months ago I would sit at home all day with my mind tormenting me by frantically running through every single memory trying to understand. Well it seems now my mind is getting tired of that.

Compared to before there is also very little emotion attached. It really doesn't hurt anymore. It pisses me off sometimes to think about some things, but only for a total of a few minutes each week now. The residual affects of PTSD are far and away the most irritating thing about it. But they are improving. Along with my feelings about my own life. They were left in tatters, and now I feel great again.

I just need to be careful not to get too carefree and let it happen again!

Elmurr