It's got to be near the end, right?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

so, it's the same story, you would think I would get used to it. He says I will be nicer, I will work on improving my behavior, and even is nice, but, then a small statement, doesn't matter what it is, triggers nastiness again. Though the day before and weekend before seems happy and says "I am trying to be nice."
Why do I have an uncanny sense to know something bad is going to happen and hustle the kids to bed? And just say in an regular way a statement about something that happened during that day, not necessarily anything negative more clarifying and then SNAP, back to the same old mean husband persona. I have to say the drinking doesn't help. I think a whole bottle of wine was consumed by him last night and then more beers. Tonight as this conversation happens he comes home from a work dinner and doesn't necessarily look me in the eye. But, then when the nasty words come out, I keep my head down, try to just say sounds like the work dinner didn't go too well possibly? or you had a busy day? then SNAP well, he retorts with nasty comments. He could very well be drinking more now watching TV I hear on. So, why am I still getting hurt? It could be that we were doing counseling, though we couldn't make any of the recent appointments and that I opened up again. I did though, recently write and present rules for interacting, meaning "BE NICE." basically. And ":)on't take other people's comments personally or if they seem not nice, move on, ask about it later and agree to disagree." Also, "No one is trying to argue with you. Especially me." Since my husband is a dirty nasty fighter back. And loves to argue as this is what our relationship is anymore. This was also pointed out, this is not a relationship, we have to work on it ourselves, while going to this counseling. The counseling can't take place until after summer when the kids go back. I think I am at a breaking point and feel that since I presented these rules in a very serious tone meaning, this is it or else, they keep getting broken. And more major incidents just recently, he was yelling while he was at work about a plane ticket. Or after I said these are the rules, he just was snippy the next morning. Now, we went over what I thought were good solid rules and explanation that I am not trying to pick a fight and we went over what he thought we should work on as well. But, a few nights ago, he just was again nasty regarding some unpacking and I said there seems to not be following of these rules we agreed upon. I guess he can't control himself or his words and like tonight, I didn't do anything wrong but I am made to feel bad. So, I again was trying to be a counselor, and say I am serious this time and it has to stop or we have to start divorce proceedings. He seemed to agree, but in the process saying nasty, bullying comments about where I will live, like there will not be a house that can be bought if this is sold? some of the same tactics. But, this time I am looking for a job, just finished training and indicated I would have a lawyer. So I guess since then and as for tonight and since we haven't done anymore MC, but he is more bad meaning nasty or snippy more often than not. The whole relationship has deteriorated but I don't want to argue anymore. I don't want to be made to feel bad about a statement, a plane ticket, etc. No matter how much counseling we might go to, it's us that have to change it. And IT APPEARS HE CANNOT MAKE A CHANGE or we can't. He also said "well the counseling can't take place now" so I should not go to my therapist either! He's gone 5 times in a year. That isn't enough for someone with such emotional issues and possibly BPD.
It's been bad for so long, the 2nd round of counseling was supposed to help, but, stirred things up, and made me succeptible to very bad feelings again, and we can't go again till August that I took it upon myself to set and agree upon rules, and he just can't seem to stop acting irrational, angry, immature. Of course, I understand he feels rejected but you have to try and act nice enough for another person to want to be near you. I think it's kaput as they say. I have not agreed either to go on family trips and going to see my family who has failing health instead of the forced family trip to see his family this summer. So, that pretty much says alot as well.

So, I have now taken upon myself to start up with a lawyer and start these proceedings soon. So only to get worse, more nasty and more drinking on his part to not help it. I want to document the drinking, it's irresponsible. But, who knows if it's hidden too as in all the beer cans are not going to be left out. I found quite a few and documented them in his closet. And have asked when watching the kids, please keep it to a minimum. but, that is not being done. But, overall it's become unbearable. We are just quibbling hateful roommates.

Any and all advice on any points, much appreciated. Wish I could say MC went better and I didn't just give up. but, I have to end the hurt and hurtful things said to me. We just don't get along. The kids can see it. I have to take the next step.
I have a second appt. with a lawyer week after next.

[12years]

so, it's the same story, you would think I would get used to it. He says I will be nicer, I will work on improving my behavior, and even is nice, but, then a small statement, doesn't matter what it is, triggers nastiness again. Though the day before and weekend before seems happy and says "I am trying to be nice."
Why do I have an uncanny sense to know something bad is going to happen and hustle the kids to bed? And just say in an regular way a statement about something that happened during that day, not necessarily anything negative more clarifying and then SNAP, back to the same old mean husband persona. I have to say the drinking doesn't help. I think a whole bottle of wine was consumed by him last night and then more beers. Tonight as this conversation happens he comes home from a work dinner and doesn't necessarily look me in the eye. But, then when the nasty words come out, I keep my head down, try to just say sounds like the work dinner didn't go too well possibly? or you had a busy day? then SNAP well, he retorts with nasty comments. He could very well be drinking more now watching TV I hear on. So, why am I still getting hurt? It could be that we were doing counseling, though we couldn't make any of the recent appointments and that I opened up again. I did though, recently write and present rules for interacting, meaning "BE NICE." basically. And ":)on't take other people's comments personally or if they seem not nice, move on, ask about it later and agree to disagree." Also, "No one is trying to argue with you. Especially me." Since my husband is a dirty nasty fighter back. And loves to argue as this is what our relationship is anymore. This was also pointed out, this is not a relationship, we have to work on it ourselves, while going to this counseling. The counseling can't take place until after summer when the kids go back. I think I am at a breaking point and feel that since I presented these rules in a very serious tone meaning, this is it or else, they keep getting broken. And more major incidents just recently, he was yelling while he was at work about a plane ticket. Or after I said these are the rules, he just was snippy the next morning. Now, we went over what I thought were good solid rules and explanation that I am not trying to pick a fight and we went over what he thought we should work on as well. But, a few nights ago, he just was again nasty regarding some unpacking and I said there seems to not be following of these rules we agreed upon. I guess he can't control himself or his words and like tonight, I didn't do anything wrong but I am made to feel bad. So, I again was trying to be a counselor, and say I am serious this time and it has to stop or we have to start divorce proceedings. He seemed to agree, but in the process saying nasty, bullying comments about where I will live, like there will not be a house that can be bought if this is sold? some of the same tactics. But, this time I am looking for a job, just finished training and indicated I would have a lawyer. So I guess since then and as for tonight and since we haven't done anymore MC, but he is more bad meaning nasty or snippy more often than not. The whole relationship has deteriorated but I don't want to argue anymore. I don't want to be made to feel bad about a statement, a plane ticket, etc. No matter how much counseling we might go to, it's us that have to change it. And IT APPEARS HE CANNOT MAKE A CHANGE or we can't. He also said "well the counseling can't take place now" so I should not go to my therapist either! He's gone 5 times in a year. That isn't enough for someone with such emotional issues and possibly BPD.
It's been bad for so long, the 2nd round of counseling was supposed to help, but, stirred things up, and made me succeptible to very bad feelings again, and we can't go again till August that I took it upon myself to set and agree upon rules, and he just can't seem to stop acting irrational, angry, immature. Of course, I understand he feels rejected but you have to try and act nice enough for another person to want to be near you. I think it's kaput as they say. I have not agreed either to go on family trips and going to see my family who has failing health instead of the forced family trip to see his family this summer. So, that pretty much says alot as well.

So, I have now taken upon myself to start up with a lawyer and start these proceedings soon. So only to get worse, more nasty and more drinking on his part to not help it. I want to document the drinking, it's irresponsible. But, who knows if it's hidden too as in all the beer cans are not going to be left out. I found quite a few and documented them in his closet. And have asked when watching the kids, please keep it to a minimum. but, that is not being done. But, overall it's become unbearable. We are just quibbling hateful roommates.

Any and all advice on any points, much appreciated. Wish I could say MC went better and I didn't just give up. but, I have to end the hurt and hurtful things said to me. We just don't get along. The kids can see it. I have to take the next step.
I have a second appt. with a lawyer week after next.

[livednlearned]

Hi 12years,

I'm sorry you're being demeaned like this, and made to feel so bad. It takes a toll.

It sounds like he has problems regulating his emotions, taking responsibility for himself, and uses alcohol to cope, which just makes things worse.

How old are the kids? What is their relationship with their dad like?

If you are thinking about divorce, it's best to not discuss things directly with him beyond what you have already said. I found that the key to my high-conflict divorce was to be a step ahead at every stage. This is not just to protect you and the kids, but to protect him from himself. People with BPD have a high tolerance for negative engagement, so fighting in court is a better alternative than feeling empty and alone. His goals will be very different than yours, which is to be done and move on.

Like you said, he can't control himself. He knows how you feel, has information to remind him, and can't help himself. Alcohol doesn't help.

Talking to a lawyer doesn't mean you have to do anything right away or ever. It's meant to gather information so you can have options, and if you decide to divorce, it can help you prepare and plan.

Congratulations on finishing your training and I wish you well on your job search  Keep focusing on yourself and making things better for yourself. You deserve to feel good. You deserve to see your family, and deserve to see your therapist even if he thinks otherwise.

How your treat yourself is the best way to show others how you expect to be treated. If he can do that, then you have a winning future. Actions and words have to match. If he can't or won't do that, then you evaluate whether this is a sustainable way to live and make choices that align with your goals and values.

It takes a lot of strength to not be emotionally injured in a BPD relationship. Take care of yourself. Someone has to, might as well be you

[BeagleGirl]

12 years,
I'm so sorry you are dealing with all of this. 

I may be reading into what you've written, but many of the things you say make me think of the way I dealt with my dBPDxh.  I spent many, many, many years trying to set expectations (rules) for his behaviors.  Many of those rules were for things that you would think would go unsaid and wouldn't have to be JADEd (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) constantly, but JADE I did, over and over and over.  It sounds to me like you may be doing something similar. 

I wish I had known about the techniques on this site sooner.  I don't know if they could have saved my marriage, but I know they could have saved me a lot of wasted energy.  SET is great, but I think the most valuable guidance I've seen on this site is to reframe those rules/expectations that you keep seeing him disregard into boundaries that you are in charge of maintaining/enforcing.  Something like moving from "You will show consideration for my feelings by not leaving clothes on the floor" to "I will not wash clothing that is not placed in the laundry hamper".  You really want him to behave in a loving manner towards you, but you can't control that.  You can only minimize the impact unloving behavior has on you and shift some of the discomfort created by that unloving behavior back on to him. 

Would you be interested in posting the rules you have established here for feedback/revision by others?

BeagleGirl