You have a  pretty good theory and I don't see any way to work around it.

You don't want to validate here... .because it's validating the invalid.

Be kind... .be yourself... .and the biggest thing is "don't take the bait".

So... .does she tell you her theories and if so... what do you say.  It doesn't sound like she does... .sounds like she is just a grump that you exist... right?

FF

Hi Enabler,

You might also want to bear in mind that some of the behaviors and attitudes could be due to the affair as well as the BP. How long has the former been going on?

It's not necessarily a shame thing. I might be able to help you with an insider perspective on this as I had feelings for an OM for a while recently which I thought might be something God meant to happen. I actually didn't say anything to the OM or take any action about it because it was not in accordance with God's law to do that and I trusted Him to manage the process if I just carried on following the law. (That's the most righteous sounding of the reasons, anyway. There are others but I couldn't for my life rank them.) So I didn't get any validation like your W has been presumably getting, but the sorts of thoughts I had are interesting in this context.

I guess it's like a sort of emotional detachment from the existing relationship and focusing your feelings and interest elsewhere during the time you are still feeding the actual or imaginary new attachment with your thought time or physical actions. (I learned anything dies if you stop feeding it, and in your W's situation the OM is helping feed it too.) I think that most women in this situation would feel some resentment towards the existing man for existing, whatever their former attitude to him, and I guess with a BP who is quite capable of hating you some of the time as well as needing you some of the time, that must be quite easy to go over to giving you all of the hate feelings and behaviors and giving the OM all of the needy feelings and behaviors.

Also if the OM is in regular contact with your W he can be a recipient of her communication. We all like to have someone else to listen to bits of news about our day, our plans, our views and so on. In a healthy marriage we'd often exchange this information with our partner. This feels like we are communicating even if a lot of it is quite shallow. I guess in an unhealthy marriage where this communication gets rejected, causes agitation, gets invalidated, etc. on a regular basis (and/or in the BP's case, if they feel like you are doing that even if you aren't), we start to look for other outlets. That could be the kids or friends or Facebook. If an OM is available she can direct all this stuff to him and it builds their relationship too.

So I wonder if the silent treatment isn't to do with covering up out of shame at whatever level, so much as it is about not needing you to listen to her stuff because she has someone else to listen to her stuff. Have you ever noticed that since Facebook and Twitter and whatever the young people have moved on to after that, there's no more graffiti on the walls of public bathrooms? You don't need both outlets, it's enough fulfilment to have shared your news or clever thought or whatever it is one time. That's a terrible analogy in one respect because you shouldn't have to be the public bathroom wall here and the OM shouldn't get to be Facebook, but maybe you see what I mean regardless.

I agree there ought to be shame and probably is, and I wonder if the outworking of that could actually be her reluctance to be proactive in the divorce. She wants the OM but she also wants to be righteous. If you are a bad man and if you take the lead on the divorce and divorce her, then she is the innocent and righteous party.

So all that is obviously just my theory from a female perspective, but the bottom line of what I'm thinking is as you said it's not about you as such. It's about the role you're playing in this situation, and I can see how a BP could fail to nuance that at all with considerations of your previous good character and support, etc. and just cast you as the ogre.

I hope that helps,
BetterLanes

PS Who writes an eight page email? I know I am not the soul of brevity but really. That does bolster the theory that that's where all her communication is going to.

P.S. as part of being sensible re any high conflict divorce I keep a spreadsheet on 'stuff'. It's as much a sanity check to refer back to things that were said and done to work out gaslighting and general honesty from W. Anyway... .

She was out 23 evenings in May, many of those involved drinking and many of them I suspect involved OM.

Similar story for the last couple of years. She's not just checked out of me but checked out of the whole family. The kids cry (literally) for her to stay in and not go out.

Hi Enabler,

Wow, it sounds like you have had a really bad time the last few years with your job and the loss of your father. It's especially hurtful when things like that happen and the non-BP has to still keep on doing a lot of work to support the BP rather than it being the other way around. I do sympathize.

I have to log off shortly but I will post some more tomorrow. Can I just ask, have you ever fallen in love with someone else as an adult? Do you remember how that feels? If not I will try to describe that for you, not to try to make you sympathize with your wife, but maybe it will help to understand some of her behaviors and feelings.

BetterLanes

The letting her use your brain is something you can work on. You can kindly reply something affirmative like "I know you are smart enough to figure that out and I'm working on something now so I can't look it up ( or answer). She might not like it - people who are used to being enabled don't in general like such changes but this is a small step that is doable.

You can validate someone but you can make someone feel validated or change their thinking. People feel what they feel. She will see you as she chooses to. I think it's more important for you to act ethically and also document what you might need to document in case she proceeds to divorce and makes unfounded claims against you ( legal board is good for that information ).

I think few affairs are accidental. Someone is either looking for a hook up or an affair gradually progresses from a friendship. Total strangers don't just meet for the first time and jump into bed accidentally-neither of them being responsible for initiating something. Your wife may not take responsibility and you really can't make her. Someone doesn't just slip into a lake- they have to walk to the edge first.

We are human and being married does not stop us from feeling attracted to others. To not have an affair takes boundaries. It means not having long intimate talks with potential attractions and not being alone with them where there are opportunities. If you were to fall in love with someone - how would you feel about yourself? I think it is important to be true to our values.

I understand trying to understand how she feels being in love but if fidelity in marriage is you value that doesn't make it OK for you. Couples have recuperated from infidelity with counseling if that becomes a choice.

It may have something to do with BPD. BPD affects the most intimate relationships. You know her better than anyone. I think that a pwBPD is able to keep a mask on with people who don't know them as well. They feel a sense of inadequacy that no amount of complements can fill.

It may also be part of the drama triangle to be in a relationship with two people. If you are the bad guy, the other man is a rescuer. Marriage is complicated and takes work at times. She may have the fantasy with him. I know it's no consolation but if she leaves for him- she takes her disorder into that relationship too and it may not be idealized after long.

I saw this sort of thing with my BPD mother. She may ask my opinion about something and even if I am knowleagable- she won't believe me. Then she will say "the cab driver told me his uncle did this " and consider it. Advice from a total stranger is better to her than someone who is invested in her welfare. Kind of like saying "I won't join a club that accepts me as a member". I think they project their poor sense of self on people who are closest to them.

Personally I think an affair is more about the person in the affair than the partner. I do think both partners can work at improving the relationship- but your wife's choice of partners may reflect her more than you.

Wow guys and gals, thanks for the messages, really appreciated.

Notwendy and Cromwell, the Karpman Triangle is integral in my relationship with my W. I now sense in each situation where she is positioning me. What is seemingly a simple neutral conversation such as:

W - I was wondering whether or not to take some food as a picnic to the Jazz festival tomorrow night, maybe tuna pasta bake or something? <unsure tone of voice>
Enabler - Yeah, that sounds like a great idea, or even some cold pizza or something <upbeat positive tone, thinking she needs reassurance and alternatives>
W - Non of the kids like cold pizza <aggressive tone, snappy and rejecting>
D9 - I like cold pizza <positive, a bit confused at the suggestion she doesn't like cold pizza>

I'm lured into offering suggestions and reassurance but as soon as I rescue my knees are cut off. I just ended the conversation and walked away sensing the start of conflict.

In a macro sense I have been positioned into the perpetrator spot at the very least as some moral justification for her relationship with OM. The cornerstone of that relationship is him rescuing her, emotionally and physically. Examples like, W had smashed her Iphone screen for the 5th time and was claiming that she needed a whole new phone as it was slow anyway. Since she'd gone through 3 phones in the time I'd had 1 I pushed back on the idea... .OM bought her a new Iphone 6S. She lied about this to me claiming it was on contract but I found contradictory evidence. Similarly she told him that I was monitoring her emails between them so he bought her a new ipad and set up different email accounts so now they can communicate covertly... .about religious matters of course... .siiiiigh!

Notwendy, I very much liked your point about it not really being about the partner and more about the person in the affair. It's made to feel about me and when we went to MC the affair was dismissed as being a non-issue and there were more pressing issues surrounding my behaviour. For love nor money I could not get the issue addressed even though it was there like an elephant in the room. It was all abuse abuse abuse abuse... .that went well! However, when you strip events back, it was about the affair, it was all about the affair(s). It's always been about her sensitivities and her ability to push me away and self destruct in whatever way shape or form she should choose.

The rock and the hard place is that I am confident that any relationship with OM will fail and pushing her towards him 24/7 would inevitably expedite that process, however it would require me to self destruct everything that's important to me and hurt my 3 girls possibly irreparably. Had the girls not been in the equation this situation might be significantly cleaner.

Sunny day in London... .COME ON THE WEATHER! 

Hi again Enabler,

As promised here's a view from the inside of this. See if this helps you. This might not represent your W's experience entirely or at all, but it helps me to understand and look at it this way.

Notwendy makes a good point about boundaries and not doing things that feed the attachment. Attraction involves a set of biological processes which you can read an overview of here https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/loves-evolver/201302/the-science-behind-falling-in-love
(dopamine, testosterone, norepinephrine, phenylethylamine) and a feedback loop that gets created for the brain's reward system.

I find it helpful to think of this thing as a creature. It's a specific instance of these biological processes between your W and the OM ("a love". It was born hungry. If the persons involved or others feed it (with things like communication and contact) it gets bigger and stronger. It'll take up all the resources (time, thought, plans, desire) that you choose to give it. You can just feed it on your own, but it does much better with feeding from others as well. If you stop feeding it (forsake it, as you pointed out), it gets weaker and eventually dies. You can leave it alone and wait, or take some specific actions to try to kill it quickly or gradually. It dies harder the more you fed it before you stopped, and it might well leave a ghost behind, but it can die. Read Christina Rossetti's poem "The Convent Threshold" for an illustration of how hard it is to kill these creatures when they get big. The trick as Notwendy says is to not let them get big.

It looks like your W has fed hers a great deal and so has the OM. They have also been dealing with their awareness that it actually ought not to be kept alive, by using religious counselling and your W's friends and stories they tell themselves about you and the OM's wife to justify its existence. So there's this creature now and it's hungry and wild and anxious and craving and it is capable of very great joy and sorrow.

Now this creature was born in a cage - the cage you talked about earlier. And the stuff it was born craving is outside the cage, and the creature gets fed on scraps of the stuff, but it can't possess what it craves. How does it feel about that? It rages and cries and sulks and worries and thinks all the time about how to get hold of more and bigger scraps and/or how to get out of the cage. It resents the cage for being there. It might do active things like chewing the bars or passive things like drooping in a corner. If the cage is strong enough and the creature is hopeless enough it might start doing things like biting itself.

Who's responsible for the cage? Well, for a young person still in the charge of their family it might be their parents. So if they wanted to get the creature out of the cage they could for example run away. Some people might decide that God is responsible for the cage because He made that commandment about adultery, or decide that their church is responsible for the cage because it made particular rules about relationships. So they could abandon the faith or find a more liberal church to get the creature out of the cage. Your W and the OM don't have that option because their faith is actually part of this creature's identity. Some people might think they themselves are responsible for the cage, in Christina Rossetti's poem the protagonist seems to have done this at least partly. But in your W's case, Enabler, I think the only option she had was to make you responsible.

So what can you do as the person responsible for the cage? You already said you tried asking your W to stop feeding the creature and let it die. That's a legitimate ask and you had a right to do it, but as she seems to be very involved with this creature I can see how she could have experienced that as abusive. The action you said you're currently taking seems to me to be the kindest approach after that, of opening the cage door and standing back a bit and seeing what the creature does.

Why is it still lurking in the cage chewing the bars and scowling at you? I don't know. It was born in the cage, and maybe on some level it is anxious about what will happen on the outside or feels it ought to be in the cage (or not to be at all). From what you said, it actually seems to want you to just dismantle the cage around it so that you are the one that set it free. Your W can also be having more logical thoughts about your family situation and her obligations that are helping her keep the creature in the cage for now. She still doesn't have to ever let it out and could still decide to forsake it. The creature is not the whole of her, although it makes her feel like it is. It's a thing with an independent lifecycle but that is tied into her biology. Who knows what your W and the creature between them will end up choosing to do.

So that's a way I find helpful to look at your situation from what you've said, based on my own experience of the process. Obviously it's not the whole truth of your situation. Maybe this metaphor could help you to look at the affair more analytically. Please discard it completely if it doesn't make sense to you or doesn't help you. It helped me to write it anyway.

BetterLanes

PS It's also my responsibility to find stuff in the kitchen.

So... .when I see "the problem" and "the fix" expressed in a very succinct way... .I felt hecompelled to point it out.

The "issue" (core unhappiness and projection) and the solution (that we can control) are right here.

Sure there is another solution, which is "they" become self aware and do their "own work".  Sadly, we understand from these boards the rareness of that happening.

   To Notwendy for putting this together in this way.


So... Enabler, if you take these things above as "truths" or "axioms", how do they affect the next few months for you?

FF

Incidentally my wife has always had dreams of prisons and being caged, in the last few years she has taken these dreams, coupled them with her burgeoning Christian faith and concluded that God was telling her to do voluntary work in a prison. The dreams were a prophecy from God that she should be working in a women's prison. After training as a pastoral assistant she is now visiting vulnerable female inmates of a local women's prison to provide pastoral care. So far she has met quite a few inmates who not only have acute emotional needs such as self harm and depression, but also an inability to take responsibility for the crimes they have committed.

The cage is everywhere   

Hi Enabler,
Something about your situation as a "third wheel" reminds me of a very different experience in my life, which has some similarities.

I broke up with my first husband, a very abusive pwBPD. Almost immediately he began a relationship with a woman he met online. I was happy for him and supportive of this relationship, as I thought it would finally get him out of my hair.

We had not yet divorced, so we were still sharing the property. I tried to befriend his new girlfriend because I thought it would be nice if we all got along in the interim. I did thoughtful things such as bringing them pizza. It wasn't like I was trying to intrude in their relationship, but since we crossed paths regularly, I tried to be friendly and helpful.

When the new girlfriend got attacked by the neighbor's bull (she thought she was a "bull whisperer" even though she'd been warned that he was dangerous), I was the one who pulled her to safety, assessed her injuries and monitored her vital signs, told my ex what to say to the 911 operator so that a helicopter would be dispatched. He stood meekly in the distance when the paramedics arrived and they thought she was my girlfriend because I was the one keeping her calm. Had I not been there, she would have died from the blood loss, since he would have driven her to the local hospital, which doesn't have a trauma center.

So, you'd think that they would have had some appreciation for my assistance. Oh, and while she was in intensive care for 10 days, I was the one who went over to her house and took care of her animals.

But no. I was painted black. I became this evil person in their minds and they schemed to do all sorts of things to damage me: taking money from me, trash talking me around town, later during the divorce--he lied about assets that were solely mine, etc.

I'm telling you this, Enabler, because I don't think it really matters how honorable and upright your behavior is. They will construct a narrative to feed their reality. My opinion is that this "affair" will play out on its own terms and there's not much you can do to alter its course, sorry to say.

All you can do is to keep with your own values and do your best for your girls. And you're doing that already.

Cat

I could barely get through that e mail without thinking how creepy and manipulative it sounded. You are not up against God- it's this man's way of thinking about God.

I agree with what Cat said- no matter how upstanding you are - it's not possible to control how others think about you. That's not the reason to be upstanding- it's about who we are and our own morals and values. You know who you are. Someone can't take that from you, even if they don't acknowledge it.

Notwendy, I can't begin to describe the shivers that went up my spine when I read the things he wrote to my W, that is just the tip of the iceberg. Another special moment was when he sent her a facebook message inviting her on a biker trip to Europe, just a week after she'd told me she wanted a divorce in Apr17... ."Just keeping you in the loop, in case your new beginnings include being a biker's b!tch... .!"  And this is the person who claims to have our marriage as his primary concern.

A photo that was saved down on our family laptop from my W's phone at the end of 2016 whilst I was living at my mothers as part of a temporary separation said "The devil doesn't come dressed in a red cape and pointy horns. He comes as everything you've ever wished for". I shudder at the thought that he is everything she had ever wished for (what does that say about me), but how very true.

This is my W's attempt at explanation of how she see's it... .and I believe he 'might' see things the same way although I fear more evil hands on his part, since it has been clear from communications that he wants to guide the advice they receive rather than seek wisdom to determine what is RIGHT.

Oct16

Enabler, I will never ever be able to properly explain my friendship with OM to you. I was completely compelled to be in intimate communication with him, in what I can only describe to be something supernatural. It is not an excuse. It is nothing I have ever experienced before, totally unprecedented, and was not lead in any way by physical attraction. This is the complete, honest truth. I know that it was the same for OM too. That is also the truth, no matter how much you hate him or want to believe otherwise. Attraction did at times begin to creep in, which we recognised and openly discussed in our exploration of this very very strange compulsion to be in contact and communication. Our communication was, absolutely predominantly, discussion and recording of our contemplation on God and our spiritual journey that was undeniably occurring. We were both literally given words to write down and this was all spurred by being able to communicate with each other. I have never ever before felt compelled to write about God and my faith and yet here I was, waking at all times in the night, and being compelled at random times throughout the day, to splurge down these clear thoughts that were literally erupting in my head about God and my faith. It was weird, extreme and just impossible to deny. The words were literally just flowing out of my head and on to screen in a way that, again, is unprecedented in my life. I knew it was for a reason but I didn't know what that reason was. Is all I know is it was important. Important enough to risk hurting you over. I knew that this was unconventional and did not follow the rules, and yet I was compelled to ignore that and take the risk.
I still don't yet know whether I was right or wrong in doing this. I certainly never ever wanted to cause you any hurt or pain, and it was in no way an act of revenge for the hurt and pain I was feeling inside about us.
On numerous numerous occasions OM and I discussed distance and attempted to cease this contact and communication, knowing the impact it must be having on our partners and questioning how this could be right. And yet it just resulted in it all coming back stronger.
I do think it's certainly possible that the Devil has made attempts to distract the true purpose of our friendship and communication together. And I do 100% appreciate that it didn't follow the usual rules. But there is something undeniably odd and spiritual about the connection OM and I have. It may sound like convenient excuse, or that I have indeed been brainwashed or even groomed by OM to think all of this. But the honest honest truth is that I have never been more clear or certain about anything. I have spent hours and hours over the last year thinking about this all from all angles. Considering every possibility. It still didn't lead me to the conclusion that this was completely wrong. Wrong on some levels yes. But there is something underlying that isn't wrong. I was supposed to encourage OM and support him in his faith journey. That was a clear fact and something of extreme importance. I was supposed to write all the stuff that was flooding into my head at all hours. And the thing that was stimulating all this was communicating with OM. It was like a gate way to an extension and deepening of my faith and relationship with God. God has been so present in my life over the last year, in a mind blowing way. I feel His presence in an overwhelming, unprecedented way each and every day. This is very different to what I have experienced before. And it's something I do not want to turn my back on. I know He is calling me and wants all of me. And I want nothing more than to give that. It ignites me, it drives me, it fills me with joy like nothing else. I believe my passion for God and the path I may be called to take for Him, can run alongside my family and I trust and know enough to be certain that God is a good God who will not let this path harm me or those around me. Only good comes from giving yourself to Him wholly.
Now I know, acknowledge and indeed totally respect, your position, thoughts and feelings on both God and my friendship with OM. I can wholeheartedly see it from your side. And I meant it on Sunday, when I said how sorry I was for the hurt and pain I have caused you over this. I am very sure OM and I have mismanaged this in many ways. It's just not straight forward and simple though. Yet I am not using that to excuse the mismanagement, deceit, or hurt caused.
I am attempting to rectify how I have been mismanaging this. I am attempting to involve others for guidance and direction.
I only want to, and have only ever wanted to do what is right.
I don't know where this will all end up but I was compelled to write this to you this morning. Compelled to have one last attempt at explaining to you something which I don't understand myself!
I know that this isn't the path you are on right now and this could be seen as an insurmountable difference. Indeed I don't know whether it is insurmountable or not. Clearly something, that between us, we need to take a lot of care, thought and consideration over.
So there it is. I hope you can read it in the way it is intended.
I am still the same EnablerW, one that is human and has made mistakes along the way, but also one who has a lot of compassion and love to give out to her family and others.


Unfortunately this was all pre BPD knowledge so non of it made any sense and my response was a nuclear weapon into the heart of her shame complex. There was no SET... .just T.

One of the T's was:
"You and OM have created an unhealthy environment with which to discuss God or more importantly your interpretations of outside inputs to your beliefs…. You are not testing your PERSONAL interpretations and therefore not testing the conclusions you are coming to, which has led you to believe that your relationship with OM is omnipotent, which is totally contradictory to several of the cornerstone beliefs of a Christian faith, and the vows that we made to each other in front of God."

They created an echo chamber and weaponised God.

Cat, that was in essence my reaction, but I am mingling (was going to say fighting  but I’m not anymore) a whole world of different realities here, a world where unicorns with cake as feet roam in search of badgers to eat. Imagine a nanny who told your kid day in day out that the world was a cube and agreed relentlessly when your 4yr old said I hate mummy and daddy because they won’t let me eat chocolate for dinner!

It’s feels unstoppable