Emotional Roller Coaster

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Where to start? It's a bit of a long story. I'll try to summarize.

About two weeks ago, my oldest (D12) called the suicide hotline. I found out when I checked on her because she had sent me a criptic text asking for privacy. She had been acting normal all this time and it took me by surprise. I knew she had felt depressed at times. I've talked with her about it. I've taken her to see her thearpist about it. I've even talked with her therapist about it. Per her therapist (who has known her for years now), she seems to be confused about what this all means and is getting some not-good information from her friends. Her feeling depressed is probably from a lot of different things: the divorce, puberty, sibling stuff, etc. To sum up, she's fine now and seems back to normal. We're definitely keeping an eye on her just in case. Her therapist isn't concerned or worried and feels she will be fine.

I didn't realize it at the time but her calling the hotline triggered me in a very big way. My father killed himself when I was a teenager and it had a HUGE impact on my life. After I found out she called them, I was a sobbing mess. I felt devestated like I had failed her as a mother. I know I'm a good mom and I'm doing the best that I can. That's how I felt at that time, though. I got her an appointment with her therapist that week and it went really well. That night she and her younger sister (D5) got in a tumble. D5 kicked her in the nose and she retaliated by punching her in the back super hard. D5 was screaming and crying and it freaked me out. She's fine. It probably hurt like hell. Thankfully no lasting damage was done. So I had a talk with D12 about what she did and how she could have seriously hurt her sister. She didn't take it well as she's very sensitive.

A couple of days later, I get a text from her saying she wants to live with her dad permanently because she doesn't feel safe at my house. Her dad (uBPD\NPD) and I are divorced. I told her we'll talk about it when she gets back. Long story short, I found out she doesn't like to be asked questions about her behavior. It makes her feel uncomfortable. That's why she wanted to move out. I explained to her that I ask her questions about why she does things because I'd like for her to be more self-aware which will help her in life. The next day she told me she doesn't really want to live with her dad and we're back to normal again.

My ex wrote to me that our oldest can live with him, our youngest can live with me, and he wouldn't expect more money from me but he would want his child support money back. I did not respond at all. He seems to have dropped it. If he wanted to do that, we'd have to go back to court and I'm fairly certain it would not happen. There is no way they'd split the kids up like that.

Due to all of that, I forgot to send the alimony payment to him. He texted me the next morning telling me he needs the money to get groceries for the kids and his account is in the negative without it. He said he'd drop the kids off with me until he got the money (it was his parenting time). I sent him the money electronically and he got it almost immediately. During all of this, I did not respond to him at all with anything. 

On top of all that, I had let him know earlier that week that she called the hotline and I got her in to see her therapist. Of course, he blames me for it all and just goes off on me and so on. Nothing new there.

This all occurred within days of each other.

It took me about 4 days to realize I was triggered. The triggers normally last about 24 hours, not days. Once I realized I was triggered (I felt super depressed and couldn't stop crying), I went to the bathroom and worked on several self-soothing techniques my therapist taught me. I also let myself feel the pain to get through it instead of avoiding it. I also did a mini EMDR session with myself with my older healed self helping me through it. It worked! I felt soo much better! I usually see my therapist when the kids are with him. She had to cancel. So I missed my normal appointment the following week.

This week hasn't been too bad except for my youngest (D5) having a huge meltdown at daycare. It was so bad, I had to leave work to pick her up early. I had a good talk with the daycare person and D5 about it and I believe it's been resolved. The daycare person also told my ex about what had happened. She did this also during his week when she had a huge meltdown as well. That's fine. So now he's blaming ME for D5's behavior. She's 5 years old! She's going to have bad days and occasional meltdowns! He also now believes that he should be free to pick the kids up during MY time without my consent if he wants to and that I should pick the kids up during HIS time if the youngest is having a meltdown. The court order says it has to be a bonafide emergency and the other parent can't be reached or gives explicit consent. So there's that.

On top of that, he is demanding to get his child support money back for this next month since the daycare person is unavailable for 2 days during his time that entire month. He seems to think that his child support money ONLY applies to daycare. The court agreement clearly states he is paying child support to me. In our state, child support includes living expenses, food, etc. It is NOT just for daycare expenses. Even if I did give him his money back for those 2 days, he pays so little that it would probably come out to pennies and wouldn't be worth it. Just because daycare is closed for 2 days during the month doesn't mean he gets his monthly support money back.

In regards to his attacks and demands, I have not responded at all. Dead silence from me! His messages are all attacks, assumptions, and demands. No questions or ultimatums or anything like that. Add in stress from work, raising kids, having to deal with my own health issues (blood work tests, allergy tests, due for a mammogram, etc.) and it feels like a lot to have to deal with all at once.

I don't think I've gotten much time to deal with or recover from the emotional roller coaster from these last couple of weeks. So tomorrow I'm taking a day off from work to just do nothing. I'm journaling. I have an appointment next week with my therapist as well. It seems like it's always something lately. That I'll never really get a break from all of this. So I'm trying to deal with it the best I can.

[juju2]

Wow, almost same thing happened to my family, d13, younger D8.  I took her to a T. after just one visit, he said she D13 HAD to go live w her father.  If not, she would probably fulfill on her desire to end her life... .i was so terrified.  I did not know what to do... .my ex, he really came thru, he said we should do what the T. recommended.  So she went to live w him, 13 yrs ago... .
She is now married.  She tells me all the time it was the worst decision on my part, dad was selfish, she wasnt raised right by him, she has lots of problems because of the decision we made... .
She does have ADD.  I cant go back and change anything.  If i could do it over, would have seriously checked out more therapy, maybe inpatient.  That one T. really spooked me, and i acted out of fear.

We may have still done the same thing.
Life gives 20/20 hindsight, looking back.
Looking forward, all i can do is my best.

Hope my story will give something to you.
Best, j

[Insom]

Hi, I_Am_The_Fire.  Hugs.   

No advice, just support.  It sounds like you've got a lot going on.  Is there one thing that feels most difficult/pressing to you in this moment?  We're here to listen.

[Panda39]

Hi I_Am_The_Fire,

I'm feeling your pain    For what it's worth I think you did a good job not responding to your ex.  He wants to engage you even if it's negative engagement it's still engagement    Only respond if it is specifically something about your kids (and I mean like real stuff about your kids... .not it's your fault the 5 year old had a meltdown... .gee I don't know could it be it was the end of the day and she was hungry and tired?)

I'm sorry about your daughter, it sounds like your daughter's threat was particularly triggering due to your past but know you are not alone this would trigger any parent.

My SO's younger daughter at 13 made suicidal comments at school and they are mandatory reporters.  She was whisked off to the Emergency Room and later admitted to an inpt Psych facility.  She has since been diagnosed with PTSD.  She had multiple things going on at the same time.  In our situation the crisis was really helpful, it got professionals involved, got her on medication for her anxiety, and shined a light on her whole family.

She has never told me why she made the suicide threat but I felt that D(now)17 felt pressure from her mother to choose her and reject her dad (I should also add that mom was alienating the girls from their dad during the divorce).  Their older daughter was on mom's side during the divorce (she was enmeshed with her mom) but D17 has always wanted and currently has a relationship with both parents.  So I always felt that the pressure her mother put on her to choose a parent was at play.  The other thing that D17 was struggling with was all of her mother's false promises and statements she made that completely conflicted with reality.  Mom was going to buy a half million dollar house at the same time she was being evicted from a town home she couldn't afford for example.  I think D17 was just overwhelmed.

Do you think it is possible that your ex is pressuring your daughter to live with him?  How are her visits with your ex?

I get a text from her saying she wants to live with her dad permanently because she doesn't feel safe at my house.

Does this sound like your daughter or does this sound like your ex?  Is your daughter's Therapist aware of her dad's BPD/NPD?

You've had a hell of a couple of weeks, I think your day off for yourself is a fantastic way to spend the day.  Recharge your batteries.

Take Care,
Panda39

[ForeverDad]

A couple of days later, I get a text from her saying she wants to live with her dad permanently because she doesn't feel safe at my house.

Recently I signed my kid up for driving classes at school.  Guess what, the night before while at his mother's he called me and said with a crushed voice, "I'm not ready."  I knew where that cam from and I told him I was making the decision and he will take his classes.  I got him the next morning and he said his mother took back his phone.  He got to attend every one of his classes.  And his phone?  She returned it to him a few hours later that morning while he was at class.  He was pressured.  I wouldn't be surprised if your daughter was influenced too.

My ex wrote to me that our oldest can live with him, our youngest can live with me... .If he wanted to do that, we'd have to go back to court and I'm fairly certain it would not happen. There is no way they'd split the kids up like that.

But I thought everyone supported splitting kids up, didn't that happen with the movie Parent Trap?

[Radcliff]

Hello I_Am_The_Fire, it's been a while!  I still remember your posts to me in my dark days last fall.  Thank you!

OK, I have to say, you are kicking *ss.  Seriously, I know this is a lot for you to handle, but all of your responses are spot on.  You're avoiding drama, protecting yourself, being a good mom, the whole package.  And you did EMDR on yourself?  That is absolutely too studly.  Reminds me of the iconic scene from Rambo (hey, I was a teenage boy in the 80's, what can I say  ) where he sutures his own arm:

(If you don't like gross stuff, just imagine the scene and don't click the link  )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7S4BULc-p0

How was your day off?

WW

[livednlearned]

I went to the bathroom and worked on several self-soothing techniques my therapist taught me. I also let myself feel the pain to get through it instead of avoiding it. I also did a mini EMDR session with myself with my older healed self helping me through it.

I got goose bumps reading this.

This is so admirable, I_Am_The_Fire.

I have never done EMDR but am so curious about it. That it helped you in those moments is a testament to its strength, and yours.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Thank you everyone for your support. This means a lot to me.   Most times I don't feel particularly strong. I'm still here, though, right?

juju2... .Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. I agree in that we can only do our best in any given moment. *hugs*

insom... .Thank you. I appreciate the support. At the time I wrote this post, I think I was feeling emotinally overwhelmed. It just seemed like a lot at once. I had to slow myself down and deal with one thing at a time. My fiance was extremely helpful and supportive as well which helped a lot.

panda39... .Thank you as well. I'm glad to hear your daughter got what she needed. We had a talk with mine so that she understands what the process is if she really does need the help. I'm sorry to hear what your daughter went through with the pressure. I wouldn't be surprised if mine was getting similar pressure from her father. During the divorce he kept trying to alienate her from me. It almost worked but it didn't. She's pretty perceptive now and can usually spot the bs from him, from what I can tell. I can only guess how her visits with him go based on what I hear from daycare and when she facetimes me on occasion from his place. According to her, she's not allowed to mention me at all when she's with him. The last time she facetimed me I heard her tell him she was on the phone with me. He said something nasty about me and then turned the lights off on her. She kept talking to me as if none of that happened. This has happened before at least once that I witnessed. I also wouldn't be surprised if he was trying to pressure her to live with him full time. He's brought it up before. I worry about enmeshment and such from him. From my past observations, he seems to treat her more like a friend/equal than a parent. My daughter's T hasn't interacted with my ex very much to form an opinion. I've mentioned it to her before but we haven't talked about it much.

foreverdad... .Thank you.  I'm sorry to hear that happened. My ex can be very demanding at times. I wouldn't be surprised if she's been pressured as well.

wentworth... Thanks! I'm really glad I was able to help you. You were most definitely going through some rough times. I'm not sure if what I did was really EMDR. It was more self-soothing and processing my emotions to help me calm down. My day off was nice. I mainly just goofed off on my computer and watched TV. Nothing exciting which is just how I like it.

livednlearned... .Thank you! As I mentioned above, I think what I did was use self-soothing techniques my therapist taught me. I've been journaling about it since then which helps too.  I probably did a little processing but not a lot. Just enough to help me through it. I've been doing EMDR for about three years now.  It's a long story. I truly believed it helped to save my life. I'm by far an expert on EMDR. If you have questions about it, though, please feel free to ask. I'd be happy to talk about my experiences with it.

Since having wrote this post, things seem to have calmed down for the time being. Well, except for my ex. Right now it seems he has some entitlement issues going on in regards to the child support and court orders. The court ordered him to pay x amount of child support each month. Neither one of us can change it. It can only be changed per court order. He still seems to think he can get his child support "refunded" for the upcoming month because daycare is closed for 2 days during his parenting time with one day being a holiday. This is a fairly new demand from him. He did not bring this up the last few years when daycare had closed before for holidays/personal vacation days. So I think he's hurting for money and is trying to bully me to get his way. He says I'm in violation of the court order. I disagree. I asked him to show me where it says he gets a refund. It doesn't. If anything, he can request we go back to court and have them figure it out, if it even goes that far.

Also he actually put in writing recently that he's been treating me horribly these last few years on purpose. He claims it's his revenge for how badly I treated him all these years. I'm certain he's projecting and rewriting history. I usually let him do whatever he wanted to do. He wanted to go out of town for a week on vacation by himself? Sure! No problem! Have a great time! You want to buy an expensive brand new stereo for your car? If we can afford it, sure! So I truly have no idea what he's talking about.  I've been diagnosed with PTSD from emotional and verbal abuse for the majority of my life. He hasn't. It feels mind-boggling at times. If you had asked me about five years ago if I thought he would behave like this, I would have thought you were crazy. This behavior is what happened when I "woke up", stopped managing his emotions, and finally took care for myself. It's amazing at times to see even several years later. The more I heal, the crazier he seems. He was probably like this all the time we were married (close to twenty years). I didn't notice it because I was codependent. I let him have his way and so on.

[Radcliff]

If you're doing EMDR self-soothing, I imagine you know the butterfly hug?

While you generally want to let your ex's antics roll off your back, are you also documenting them?  A simple journal with what happened and the date, including things like turning the light off on your daughter when she was talking to you, etc., then after recording in the journal, try to forget about it.  Hopefully life trundles on, the kids get older and more resilient, your healing continues, and you never end up in court.  But if you do, it will be reassuring to know that you've recorded the facts as they happened.

WW

[Panda39]

I agree with Wentworth,

Keeping a journal is a great idea for documentation if you need it (save any emails & text messages too) for court. 

I also find journaling helpful with rumination, so rather than let all of this stuff rattle around in your head and preoccupy you take it out of your head and put it in a journal instead.  It will always be there if you want to revisit the problem and sometimes you can gain new insight into the situation, just by the act of writing it down and coming back to read it later.

Panda39

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Yes I write everything in a journal. I have several volumes by now.   I also save his texts and emails. We use Talking Parents for communication. Once you post, you can't edit or delete anything. Plus it's admissible in court.

Yes, I know of butterfly hugs. I do those sometimes. I also do heart-focused breathing. Generally what helps me the most are slow alternating leg pats to simulate the EMDR paddles.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Hi everyone... .

This is an update and I have some psychological questions in regards to the child support issue. He insisted that I owe him a complete refund of child support money (and retroactively for the past few years) based on when daycare closed for a day or two here and there. I pointed out that child support is not just daycare costs. It's the cost of raising a child. If you prorate what he "pays" in child support, it comes out to roughly $4/day. Not much of a refund and not worth going back to court. I also told him that if he feels I violated the order and/or he wants to modify it, he can request so via the court system. Here is where it got strange (or stranger than it already is).

He then wrote that I can just keep paying him the alimony as normal and that if I feel HE violated the court order, then I can take him back to court. What just happened there? Alimony wasn't part of the issue that he brought up. This was all about child support and daycare costs. He's the one who wanted a refund and/or modification of child support.

It feels like when he starts to "lose" a conversation, he takes my side of the conversation over (basically assuming my identity) and throws what I wrote to him back to me pretty much word for word. It really messes with my head sometimes. Any ideas what this is called and how to you handle something like this? In this situation, I let it go. I don't think there is anything I could say/write in response. Is it projection or something else? This isn't the first time he's done this either.

As an interesting note, he also mentioned that I have to pay him the alimony because the court believed I had wronged him over the years. That it was a moral punishment for me. What? Alimony was "awarded" because I make more money than he does. It's completely financial. We live in a no-fault state. It doesn't matter why someone filed for divorce. It just takes one person to start the process. Also, we settled out of court in the end. The judge didn't award anything. It's times like these I think he's really gone off the deepend. He definitely seems to twist reality to fit his current emotional state. I left this one alone too. It's not worth it.

It makes me wonder. Has he always been like this and I didn't notice until these last few years? Or is he going off the deep end because I'm no longer keeping him in shallow waters like I had done all these years?

[Panda39]

Are these phone conversations?  You might want to switch to email communication if you aren't doing this already. Email is good both for documentation and so you can decide whether to even respond or not.  Frankly, if it isn't specifically about the kids you don't even need to be having these kinds of "conversations".

What I see here is, you are disengaging from the conflict and not feeding it and him trying to flip the conversation to something else to see if you'll bite.

Where's the fun in making accusations about child support when you, just tell him okay if you have an issue take it to court?  So that didn't work so now he moves on to alimony and see if you'll will engage with him on that one!

It is possible that you have been in the FOG and didn't see these behaviors as clearly before too.  I see you handling barrage of nonsense well, keep doing what you're doing. No JADEing, low contact, minimal drama.

Panda39

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Thanks, Panda39!

No, these are not phone conversations. Every single one of these is in writing. There is no way we can have phone conversations. He can't even look at me in public. He physically turns his back to me or leaves the room. If he did call, I'd let it go to voice mail.

His trying to flip the conversation to get me to react makes sense. He seems to thrive on drama.

I'm sure I was in the FOG for years. I was also emotionally shutdown due to PTSD. So it is possible it was always there and I had not noticed it before because of all of that. It "just" seems mind boggling at times.

[ForeverDad]

Try looking at his claims a different way.  If you reverse his claims, swapping you for him and him for you, would his claims then make sense?  Then that could be called Projection.  Another term I've seen is Transference.  Do a search on those two and see if that doesn't help you see what he's doing.

In addition, always keep in mind two things.  His sense of self, his perceptions, are based on his ever changing and ever morphing moods and emotional state, predictably unpredictable.  Also, personality disorders (dysfunctions) essentially mean his world view (perceptions) are often skewed and don't have to make sense (common sense).  It is mental illness after all even if it isn't severe enough for him to be committed... .and by definition mental illness doesn't make sense even if it can be described, categorized and somewhat predictable.

While child support usually continues until the children are grown or the order is adjusted, alimony is usually for a set number of years.  Your alimony does eventually end, right?  Unless yours was a long marriage in a limited few states, alimony is generally viewed more and more these days as assistance to help the disadvantaged spouse transition from married to single life.  As an example, I was married for 15 years before I filed.  Since she delayed the divorce process, it wasn't final until we hit 18 years.  Despite my marriage being on the longer side, part of our settlement was that alimony lasted 3 years.

[Radcliff]

I think you are seeing this situation with clarity, and your nonresponses are exactly the thing to do.  With time, hopefully you won't even let his shenanigans worry you.  Kind of like with EMDR when a traumatic memory seems to grow distant and be less of a trigger, when he e-mails you something ridiculous, you'll say to yourself mindfully, "He just e-mailed me something ridiculous.  I don't even need to respond to that," and smile and take a sip of your coffee, or look fondly at a bird in the yard, or remember you need to buy some milk.

I think either or both of your theories could be at play here -- the roots of this behavior were probably always there, but his symptoms may be worse if he is stressed and on his own and you're not regulating his life for him anymore to make it easier.

WW

[I_Am_The_Fire]

ForeverDad... Thanks! It's hard at times to keep in mind that he is basically mentally ill to a degree. A lot of what he does doesn't make sense and it does help to remind myself that it's how his brain works. I'm not sure about transference. I read up on it and I'm not sure it fits. It could be projection. I'll have to ask my therapist about it to be sure. It's mostly a curiosity as to what it may be called. In reading up more on BPD and such, it's probably just another way of avoiding shame. He twists it around so that he's "winning" regardless. Kind of like changing reality to fit his emotions in that moment. He'll claim the court orders say one thing and when I prove it says the opposite, he changes subject or ignores it completely. So it's probably all based on shame avoidance which makes a lot of sense.

As for child support, we were married for over fifteen years. He got the maximum, of course, which came to seven years total. Ouch, right?  At least it will end eventually. I chalk it up to the cost of my freedom.

Thanks Wentworth! Hopefully those days will come sooner rather than later.