Full circle from detach to restablish and back again

[1stTimer]

Maybe that would be of use to examine what your part in this relationship was.

I think my part was this; years back I found the most amazing love I ever experienced, a (non BPD non overvaluing) woman who thought I was amazing and vice-versa and I didn't holdback at all and neither did she. At some point she had some horrid male friends who turned her against me and made her believe things (using 1/2 truths and evidence which are the most damaging kind) so she ended up despising me and always will. That also went from amazing one day (as in planning my proposal) to horror the next day out of the blue. That took YEARS as I loved her almost from the moment I met her.

So in a way that was a real life version of a BPD cycle and this sort of tapped into that; havent dated in years because I couldn't, BPD girl comes along things I am the greatest thing since swiss cheese, gets me, etc, then BAM the next day it is all gone and so is she.

I think that is what has resonated here, just made that connection.

[Shawnlam]

I think my part was this; years back I found the most amazing love I ever experienced, a (non BPD non overvaluing) woman who thought I was amazing and vice-versa and I didn't holdback at all and neither did she. At some point she had some horrid male friends who turned her against me and made her believe things (using 1/2 truths and evidence which are the most damaging kind) so she ended up despising me and always will. That also went from amazing one day (as in planning my proposal) to horror the next day out of the blue. That took YEARS as I loved her almost from the moment I met her.

So in a way that was a real life version of a BPD cycle and this sort of tapped into that; havent dated in years because I couldn't, BPD girl comes along things I am the greatest thing since swiss cheese, gets me, etc, then BAM the next day it is all gone and so is she.

I think that is what has resonated here, just made that connection.

This world is full of lessons and unfortunately most are when we least expect them and when we least want them ! I for one am still in the process of learning mine and I don’t know when this lesson will end to be honest .I hope you learnt want you needed to learn this time around and it makes you stronger and better prepared !

[1stTimer]

This world is full of lessons and unfortunately most are when we least expect them and when we least want them ! I for one am still in the process of learning mine and I don’t know when this lesson will end to be honest .I hope you learnt want you needed to learn this time around and it makes you stronger and better prepared !

I've certainly learned some lessons about my own life, mistakes I made shutting down for no really good reason, trusting my instincts etc. I'm not sure if I'm prepared for the possible repercussions of this situation however, one reason I'm still in Conflicted here.

[1stTimer]

Well I gather 'bad news' is on the way

For one thing, no reply for now two weeks. So the 'I am open to talk truthfully. Perhaps this week? Can I reach out to see if you are available an hour or so before I think would work for me?' was not a girl replying to my unexpected letter and offer to reconnect as soon as she could find the time that week. It was 'whenever' and more to the point likely, as with when she pushed me to commit and then ran and as when she reached out to ask me to meet at 'our place' and backed off when I accepted, once again 'something' made her run away and clearly this is not happening. 2 weeks is not 'processing'. It is running or avoiding or not-even-thinking.

In any event I sporadically check her FB (I hardly remember what she looks like) and she hadn't updated it since October. Now all of a sudden a new profile picture with two giant flower stems. I think a Status Update: In a Relationship in in the works as it fit with the whole 'lots happening' and a person who updates very sporadically and not once when we were together and suddenly puts two intertwined flowers is, if not in a relationship, likely in love. I'm going to guess it is not due to my recent beautiful 'note'.

This was really my issue with sending as it just gave her the opportunity to repeat the pattern; reach out and disappear. I'd have really thought the gesture (meaning not just the things I said but how I said and presented them) deserved a follow-up vs leaving a person hanging who just said 'sure I'll be available on an hour's notice'. I didn't mean for the rest of my life.

I guess the 'thanks for the note' then is not 'BIFF' but what it sounds like. When you get a love letter from a person you don't reciprocate you say 'Thank you for the nice thought'. When you get a letter like tht from a guy you said you wanted a committed relationship/future with 10 weeks ago whose feelings you were unsure about you certainly don't say that. So the conclusion can only be that she never meant those things nor wanted the committment but wanted the words and the thoughts. 'Thanks for the note', asking me to be available at a moment's notice, and then never calling all simply suck and are in fact exactly reflective of the girl whose actions pushed me here in the first place. I somehow went from a guy in control to Charlie Brown in a matter of weeks.

[formflier]

I guess the 'thanks for the note' then is not 'BIFF' but what it sounds like. When you get a love letter from a person you don't reciprocate you say 'Thank you for the nice thought'. When you get a letter like tht from a guy you said you wanted a committed relationship/future with 10 weeks ago whose feelings you were unsure about you certainly don't say that. So the conclusion can only be that she never meant those things nor wanted the committment but wanted the words and the thoughts. 'Thanks for the note', asking me to be available at a moment's notice, and then never calling all simply suck and are in fact exactly reflective of the girl whose actions pushed me here in the first place. I somehow went from a guy in control to Charlie Brown in a matter of weeks.

So... .a quick comment.

The above quote is how YOU think about this and I fully support you making decisions about your life, based on your feelings about your pwBPD's actions (or lack of actions).

That being said... .

It is unlikely that the quote represents how your pwBPD thinks about this. 

If you assume that is true... .how does that (or does it) change things for you?

FF

[1stTimer]

Hi FF. Which quote are you referring to sorry? I dpn't really have a decision to make as I already launched the Grand Gesture.

Nope no idea what she thinks of this that is true. It is in keeping with the rest of the pattern; push hard for complete committment/Official Statement I give it I get Future Bomb, carpet bomb and run away as if *I* were overeaching... Reach out to see if I want to meet at our place, I agree, more or less pulls the plug on it as if I were over-reaching. Reply to flowers wanting to meet that week (note was clear on what I was proposing) I agree to the 'on an hour's notice', she disappears.

I have no idea clearly. One part says the pattern says she keeps reaching for me and either gets terrified or strong-armed away. The other parts says if this were actually important that now that she clearly knows I felt the way she was unsure of, she'd reach out. Which she did. And ran away.

Yup I have no idea. I just saw the first post on FB in 9 monhts of flowers and figured it meant something. Would be nice to think she spent two weeks thinking about what I said and came to a point of happiness but that is Hollywood isn't it?

So yup I know nothing. Except a girl who (supposedly) wanted me as her future in April and was unsure of my feelings now is sure of my feelings and is still running (or not caring).

If I assume that... .she is in love is true? It won't change anything, will just confirm that whole slaughter chute of commitment was utter BS since that is certainly one way to explain what happened and why no contact.

I'm really thinking I should get in Therapy. Never been but clearly it is not this girl, just the last 15 years of loss. I mean I see her pic it doesn't move the needle at all, I visited a page of my ex from 2002 and my heart still soars. So clearly this obsession and pain is not about this girl.

That said I think if she decided to NOT call me (Mother, Therapist, grandma says no inheritance, who knows) after all that given the depth of the gesture I'd deserve to not just sit around. That is crappy.

So... .a quick comment.

The above quote is how YOU think about this and I fully support you making decisions about your life, based on your feelings about your pwBPD's actions (or lack of actions).

That being said... .

It is unlikely that the quote represents how your pwBPD thinks about this. 

If you assume that is true... .how does that (or does it) change things for you?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Her new FB profile picture makes me wonder if there's a lot about this woman that's hidden.

After college, I knew a woman who now I think about it, is likely a pwBPD. She was a total playa--she cultivated multiple romantic connections at the same time, telling each guy a similar story. And guys fell for her like crazy. It wasn't that she was great looking, she was pretty average, but somehow she wove a tale that ensnared them and they got hooked with the highs and lows of her drama. And she would shed them like clothes, when she was done with them.

I had a lot of contempt for the way she treated men, but in a weak moment, I introduced her to my ex-boyfriend as a bit of revenge. He certainly got dragged through the wringer with her. She cheated on him with his best friend after he proposed, but ultimately they got married and now have two adult children, and I believe they're still together.

I'm not saying this woman is like that, but there are a number of red flags you've listed: a history of abuse from "bad boyfriends", no serious relationships (or so she says), trying to make you feel jealous by having intimacy with another guy.

To me, it adds up to there's a lot of secrets that she's hiding.

[Cat Familiar]

I think it would be great for you to do therapy. You're a smart guy still dealing with grief from your previous relationship. Sometimes those of us who are very logical and rational have a hard time moving through trauma and loss. High intelligence can be a stumbling block in that we think we can solve any problem through thinking. Well, the heart feels differently.

Therapy certainly has helped me over the years. Find someone you feel comfortable with, who is a good fit and also who will challenge you. It may take a few tries, so keep at it until you find the right therapist. 

[1stTimer]

Hmm why does the new picture make you think things are hidden? You mean because she does not update often. Aside: I think one of her 'things you should know about me' is that she was institutionalized (guess) because there is like a 5-6 year gap (er after her first and only 'Status: Relationship;. Anyway she posts very infrequently over say 10 years (20 posts?) It is weird as hell in fact. Says In relationship in 2009, then not  a single pic of him/her. You may be right. Who knows?

I just saw the pic as something good is happening in her life and heck it may be processing my gesture but who knows?

And yes she is quite plain looking, doesn't dress up (sweats mostly) or wear make-up. I had a super-hot friend that openly treated men like crap and loved it.

I really just never got that vibe but the comment that is most telling and the one that spun me out of control until the very end (colored all of my interactions and my 'running' was she said she was going on a date ("It would be nice if you were even a little jealous" and then said "I don't want to, I know I'd cheat on him if i dated him".  Problem was that was about when I was falling or deciding to commit and it was the record scratch moment; it was like deciding to finally take the sled down the hill, jumping with joy down the hill and seeing lava on the bottom. It spoke to fidelity, promiscuity and total lack of caring that goes against every fibre of who I am. She said later she was speaking hypothetically and she is a one-woman man.

As per above thread, I thikn I'm getting into therapy as this is not about this girl, I'm pretty clear she is a mess and would be a mess to get back with.

On the other hand of course it would be nice to know/believe that the connection was real and her running is because of that not because she is a 'playah'

Her new FB profile picture makes me wonder if there's a lot about this woman that's hidden.

After college, I knew a woman who now I think about it, is likely a pwBPD. She was a total playa--she cultivated multiple romantic connections at the same time, telling each guy a similar story. And guys fell for her like crazy. It wasn't that she was great looking, she was pretty average, but somehow she wove a tale that ensnared them and they got hooked with the highs and lows of her drama. And she would shed them like clothes, when she was done with them.

I had a lot of contempt for the way she treated men, but in a weak moment, I introduced her to my ex-boyfriend as a bit of revenge. He certainly got dragged through the wringer with her. She cheated on him with his best friend after he proposed, but ultimately they got married and now have two adult children, and I believe they're still together.

I'm not saying this woman is like that, but there are a number of red flags you've listed: a history of abuse from "bad boyfriends", no serious relationships (or so she says), trying to make you feel jealous by having intimacy with another guy.

To me, it adds up to there's a lot of secrets that she's hiding.

[1stTimer]

Well to summarize my initial posts it isn't loss of prior relationship; that was preceded by loss of career/money/city I loved, then long term father illness who passed, now sick mother, breaks with close family (as happens during extended illnesses), lost career, etc. so the theme is really... .loss. It is the main reason I was so (as per the letter) fearful as I could not really handle more. That is the reason that ':)ay' is so traumatic; finnnnaly agreed to let down my guars and give her myself fully, my future, and the next day it is all ripped away like a giant cosmic joke. Therein lies the pain, not her. Again I see her pic, nada.

I think it would be great for you to do therapy. You're a smart guy still dealing with grief from your previous relationship. Sometimes those of us who are very logical and rational have a hard time moving through trauma and loss. High intelligence can be a stumbling block in that we think we can solve any problem through thinking. Well, the heart feels differently.

Therapy certainly has helped me over the years. Find someone you feel comfortable with, who is a good fit and also who will challenge you. It may take a few tries, so keep at it until you find the right therapist. 

[1stTimer]

Her new FB profile picture makes me wonder if there's a lot about this woman that's hidden.

In 9 YEARS not one picture of a man. Not one COMMENT from a man. Just one 'In a Relationship' back in 2009 followed by... .nothing. This is the one she referred to when she said 'A lottt of people are going to want to meet you I haven't had a real boyfriend in 10 years' Yeah there are a lot of dark secrets back there. As she'd keep saying 'There are things you need to know about me".

I'm clearer each day it is not her I pine for. Just the life that was presented in front of me again after 1 1/2 decades.

[1stTimer]

And guys fell for her like crazy. It wasn't that she was great looking, she was pretty average, but somehow she wove a tale that ensnared them and they got hooked with the highs and lows of her drama.

Interesting because I keep wondering how any woman let alone a plain shy one who spends e... g her birthday alone can respond to that gesture as if she gets flowers and a love-letter like that on a daily basis vs hardly or never. Maybe she IS like your friend and she is used to this pattern, 'oh it's the please-take-me-back-whiny card ho hum'. I'd think most women would be moved beyond words let alone from someone they were nuts about.

Therapy here I come

In fact: Does this site have any resources for finding BPD-'friendly' therapists?

[Shawnlam]

  1st timer my therapist isn’t BPD specific and just my two cents neither should yours .The most important part of therapy is for you, not her.Once you identify and work out your issues  you will find that her having BPD had little to do with it ( at least that’s what I came to as a conclusion).Getting that confidence and self esteem back to high levels will undoubtedly attract the woman you want or for that matter the woman you may have had.

Another point and mistake I made and most men make kinda goes back to “nice guys come in last “ therory.Its not about being a nice guy it’s about being a good guy.Good guys are genuine,they do things for a woman because they can and want nothing in return EX: sex,wife,trophy,gf etc etc. The “nice guy” theory always has some alternative motive and I used to make these mistakes .Sending flowers after an argument or jewelry after a trip etc ,never once thought about why I was doing  these things (to entice a reaction of forgiveness or neediness are reward for having gone out together on a weekend I planned).Woman (with or without BPD) pickup on this like blood to a perhanna! Now I just do things completely random with no occasion for it.Ive stopped the constant texts and no more letters or emails either .When I got something to say I’ll call her,when I want to see her I’ll tell her just that .If I chose to get her something you can be sure it will be completely not tied into anything in return.When she offers to pay for something I simply go with it,without a second thought about it .I try and flow naturally now ,and I pay attention to how she’s feeling before acting.I don’t reward the over dramatic good moods she’s in anymore that reacting to the heavy drama moments ,just being a steady yeti (very tuff to do ,I distract myself through training and bettering myself).

In your own therapy you will see these things matter a lot and the BPD very little .Once you are centered and figured out your issues ,then learning about BPD and how to deal with what will come is doable .A lot of people (me included) thought learning everything about BPD makes them experts and they can deal(manipulate) their way through it ... .FALSE! The partner with BPD needs to fix themselves and realize themselves there is a problem , you becoming a better version of you will keep them attracted to you ,in hopes long enough to seek help to keep you.I couldn’t go back with my ex if I hadn’t fixed (still in progress)my own issues ... .just no way.Id be taking everything personally,get defensive,angry,try manipulating her with BPD knowledge,what a train wreck that would have been ! Good news is you realized you also need therapy this will flip that light on ,just don’t worry about them being BPD experts it may not even be required.

Good luck

[1stTimer]

Quite an excellent point Shawnlam, as I realize my issue now anyway is not "her" she was just sort of (especially our first/last night together with the Future Bomb) re-entry into... life which I'd sort of had to step away from and then hid myself from for most of this century. I know if I ever did get back with her I'd be done with her in 3 months. It was really having it all ripped away from me the moment I was (fool enough) to finally open myself up to all the things she asked for/offered. It isn't her. I'm amazed on her FB I feel nada.

So I think you are right it is not BPD it is me, and figuring out how to re-enter the world.

I don't consider myself a 'nice guy' in fact, I have a good (usually) sense of boundaries and caring. I don't curry favor or fawn or do things to get things. Even the flowers were (mainly) to reach out and rectify a mistake I'd made. I'd have been 'fine' with her not replying or even replying 'Thank you beautiful, maybe leave it as is?'. It is the continuation of the same BS that I opened myself up to that pisses me off. It was hard enough to come up with the courage to look at myself, to write that letter and to deliver it. Not 'expecting' anything is one thing, but a measure of caring and respect from a woman who said she wanted to spend her life with me essentially would have been nice, and calling all that a 'thoughtful note' and asking me to be on call within an hour of her finding time (implying it was important to her to do ASAP) and then just never getting back to me sucks. On the other hand it clarifies is not the BPD that she is not a cool person or partner and as everyone tells me I dodged a major bullet. I knew this when I met her and most of the time I was with her and just got caught up in the last 5 week maelstrom she created. I'll never know WHY she needed all that just to destroy it, my job now is to just get my head on to move forward and back to my life. Thanks for the support and good luck with all your new found strenght and centerdness and... .lady

[1stTimer]

Removed the messages from her. Blocked her phone. Doesn't matter if she is terrified, conflicted or just plain and utter *****. I'm sure at some point I'll check my Blocked Messages since I can on my phone but at least won't sit there and jump when she decides on day to contact me which will buy me time to detach.

Sorry to say but the only consensus now is I ran into a truly horrid woman. That whole slaughter-house rush to committing to her at the end, the future-bomb on the official night and the 'you're a nice guy but' the very next day was not terror of getting what she wanted it was, exactly as if felt that day, a set-up/revenge for my saying the precise words to her 18 months earlier. She didn't contact me not because she was scared or couldn't own 'running' she didn't because she did not care. She treated each of my very beautiful gestures to assure her of my feelings for her (as she'd expressed hurt that I did not have those) with a pat on the head and at least twice reached out on her own to test if I wanted to see her and then intentionally pulled away.

We can explain and BPD personality disorder we want here, I'd prefer to use old fashioned terminology; she is a complete and utter b****. She deserves the lifetime of pain and inability to connect and endless stream of unsatisfying sexual partners looking for the connection and love she'll never get.

I am done.

[Shawnlam]

Sounds like a ruff night you had there 1st timer.I can see the sheer anger and insult you have towards what she did to you and the reactions .All I can say is if she does have BPD it explains a bit more than the standard b*** theory, if she doesn’t  have BPD I guess your end theory may be correct.All I can say is many people on this world have been through some bad things , some turn out this way with very little reason and some with too many reasons,and some come out just fine given abnormal circumstances.Anger is a part of healing,god knows I’ve been there a lot myself these past months.Its perfectly normal feeling this way but it will pass, you may pivot back to sadness or even feeling nothing like being in a trance , all normal steps in the process.

Just don’t forget the main factor in any circumstance in the future good or bad , that factor is yourself.Keeping centered and focused on yourself has this very odd and satisfying affect that allows you to not care so much about outcomes? It allows you this safe zone you can live  in where you feel confident that rejection or personal attacks like as an example (being cheated on or lied to)  goes from being ultra upsetting and devastating to a more ( I guess this person attacking me really lost out on something great. Me), type of feeling.

As I continue my journey to better myself it has become more and more  apparent how little control we have on our surroundings especially other people.I often tell myself “wow how foolish I have been spending so much of my life worrying about what I could not control anyways “.I wish they’d teach children about all this stuff in school , life would have been a lot easier knowing what I know now.Obviously by what I wrote above I don’t mean do nothing because you can’t control anything,far from it.I just mean control yourself and what you can do for you.Thats about the only garantie we have in live that’s ultimately in our control, “us” and what we chose for ourselves.

Upon my endless reading on BPD ,complex b disorders,motivational videos,books, radio shows ,alpha/beta males, neediness ,self esteem etc etc etc , There iare strikingly similarities in every lesson that seem to orbit this one factor , be the best version of you always .Thats what all these endless programs sell,that’s what all these articles speak of, and when you read the success stories on here ,same thing pops up.Can you imagine if the education system would have taught this? World would be a better place .

[1stTimer]

Thanks Shawnlam. Well yeah I'm done with trying to understand and/or own what happened. My not reciprocating/appreciating didn't cause her behavior. The worst it could have done is make her move on. Even if she'd moved on when we were doing our 'casual' thing it would have been understandable and I'd not have been upset/hurt (except for a little) even as late as late March. EVEN after the upsetting bar conversation (she slept with someone, was going on a date to make me jealous, knew she'd cheat on him) etc just saying hey look you didn't want a relationship (which she ignored so we were now IN one e.g. .keys, drawers, emergency rooms, etc) so I'm dating someone.

That would be the way the cookie crumbled and I'd have not opened my heart and future which I'd been very good at keeping boxed away (in large part from not trusting her). But to almost maniacally push me into a verbal and official relationship/future commitment over the course of 4 weeks that spun me out of control only to rip it away the next day and disappear is nothing that should ever have been excused, explained and certainly I should not have taken ownership of.

Yes I am HUGELY angry at myself for doing so, yet I think as my female friend said last night (talk about an AMAZING lady) it was an amazing and brave and gallant act and a gift I gave someone who might not have 'deserved' it but a gift I put out in the world non-the-less and it made me stronger too.

But damn man; you read the letter. Printed on card stock and spiral bound and twined to flowers and hand delivered. This girl never got anything like that in her life (content AND context) and she freaking SPIT on it. She didn't ignore it. She didn't return it. She didn't say 'Thanks for the beautiful thought I've moved on'. She called it a freaking NOTE as if I was some unwanted suitor she was being polite to, not the guy she wanted to introduce to her family as her first boyfriend since George Bush was President who she'd made climb over glass to prove he really wanted her. THAT guy who did THAT gesture deserved more than 'thoughtful note' and the part that really got my female friend pissed and concerned was the hole 'can I reach out an hour or so before I am think I'll be available'.  She said in addition to being hugely disrespectful it shows something very much wrong in her life (controlling bf?). It fits right in with 'can't make firm plans'. Whatever it is thought, why ever she reached out two weeks ago to see if I wanted to meet at our place and then pulled the carrot away when I said yes again, it is all looking like utter freaking cruelty not like utter fear.

Revenge for my never saying yes to invites to museuems or tea or family events? Do I deserve to have 'revenge' foist on me for not being in a place I could or wanted to do that AND being upfront about it? So now she has some power and is going to make me pay? I never did anything like this.

I don't care if she is terrified of me/us and I don't really even buy it; this latest is just utter disrespect and contempt from someone I didn't deserve it from. I treated her amazing well, was a fantastic friend to her (she knows this "you are probably the closest person to me outside my family" and she said even her mother would say 'he's been a great friend to you', and when we were intimate didn't 'use her' but made her pleasure my priority. I put aside all of my own concerns/objections when she needed a commitment from me and the way she needed it and I treated her like an absolute lady on our Official Night and gave her her dream night; picked her up by car, escorted her to it, opened the door and helped her in, escorted her to the table at an amazing restaurant, held her seat, ordered her food (she asked me to), sat through her freak out at 'committing', asked her again to be my 'one and only', took her home made love to her held her in my arms and stroked her hair while she slept and kissed her cheeks in the morning to wake her up. I did every single thing she wanted and needed to feel secure that we were in the very relationship she'd ASKED for, I jumped through every hoop, I said every right word.

I'll never know why she ran the next day as if I had the plague, I'll never know why she reached out to meet me 3 weeks ago the moment i reached out to her and then pulled it away, I'll never know why she called my gesture a 'thoughtful card' and thought it was ok to ask me to be ready to meet on a moments notice or what is going on in her (or anyone's life) that made that the only way to possibly meet, or why two weeks later she has not done me the courtesy of ... .anything. All I know is at the end of the day even IF it is driven by fear, which I absolutely do NOT believe anymore, it comes down to utter contempt and hate and disregard, none of which I earned. I'm no a tissue you get to throw in the street.

What is most galling about it is the woman I spoke with last night is everything I DO in fact like in women, unlike this little girl; unfortunately she has a bf but she is clearly crazy about me. And I sit talking to her thinking why in GOD'S NAME did I waste a minute of my life on a messed up little girl instead of a woman like the one in front of me. So all I can take that is good from this is this messed up person at least opened my heart and mind back up to having a real relationship with a real woman and I'll just try to jettison needing 'answers' to behavior from a person who is deeply disturbed (and knows it). There are no answers.

So erased her stupid reply so I don't keep reading looking for clues like it is hieroglyphics, blocked her number, deleted the pdf of the note I sent her, and I'm making some plan/committment to redirect my thoughts EVERY time I chew on why-this why-that. I've lost 20 lbs and instead of the flabby guy I had become by the time I met her I look like a boxer and have attention in the gym and streets and bars and am going to use that to go take an open heart and find an actual functioning real lady.

[1stTimer]

alpha/beta males,

I think people, and particularly women don't know what an Alpha Male even is. This one's ex (whom I think she is back with now) she called an Alpha Male. He was her Dom. She was his Sub. He didn't allow her to SPEAK to other men and checked her emails, phones, etc. (part of where I think the vague 'nice note' and the 'cant make firm plans' and the 'can I reach out an hour before I think I'll be available' comes from).

Before she and I dated (when I'd rejected her) she showed up at 'our place' and she said she was not supposed to talk to me. I asked 'who says?' she said the guy she was dating didn't want her interacting with men outside. He is an Alpha. I laughed. I said Alpha men do not worry about their women and 'Beta' men. They have no FEAR their women will WANT the other men, they don't need to check phone calls and emails out of FEAR the women won't be faithful or obedient. He beats your ass red in bed, insists you call him Sir and Mister and controls your communications because he is a SCARED LITTLE MAN not a Confident One.

On our single day of being a couple she asked me if I would make her give up her platonic male friends and I said why would I do that? She said he did that and I said I am neither jealous of or afraid of other men. Not a girl who will ever get the distinction between strong and weak men I'm afraid.

[Shawnlam]

You would be correct an alpha male would never check or spy on his woman it just screams insecurity.When a real alpha man finds out his woman is interacting with her ex’s behind his back(we always find out ,the truth always comes out) ,there is no drama ,no crisis, he simply walks away as easily as he walked in her life.Drama is pointless , when people aren’t worthy of your time you simply don’t provide them with said time anymore so simple once this is understood.Having the casual open minded nothing should be complicated perception on life (including relationships) ,things get a lot clearer fast.

If you are a man <~~ and I stress the word man, you will invest and give time to someone who deserves it.If trust is breeched to a large extent ,there is no need for huge arguments or justifications, concret evidence (not assumptions) usually lead to just movement in the right direction.It all comes down to , does this fit with me here yes/no? No , then walk away as solid and centered as you live every day , Yes, then live with how it’s going as solid and centered as you live every day.

This has become my new philosophy because it’s working for me ,with work,friends,finances,health, and presently relationships.The interesting part is other people are noticing it in my life more and more and so far the comments have been positive and also impressed.Ive even taken it as far as posture, walking , eye contact, hand positioning and voice tone.

Prior to training myself I used to slump, walk fast almost in a hurry ,look down a lot when speaking , hands crossed on my chest almost in the form of no please don’t bother me .

You would be surprised how good you feel walking slower ,more even footed, looking at your surroundings and noticing stuff you’d ignore usually like sun setting or art on buildings .When you look people in their eyes when speaking you can sense their emotions as they listen or watch them look away because they are insecure like I used to be.Hands at the hips or in your pockets with thumbs out feels more solid to me, chest pushed out,head up and shoulders back feels good (especially having gone back to weightlifting).

I just feel alive again being this way ,like I’m on the planet and not much is gonna bother me if I can help it.I rode into the city yesterday parked my motorcycle and just watched maybe 100 people walk by on their phones most of them oblivious  to their surroundings,walking fast like they had a time limit to their existence that day .What I thought was 15min was actually 1.5 hours that went by , it was crazy watching the zombie like society we are in.All the while  I received 2 texts from my gf and 3 from friends and I never thought to check my phone until I was about to hope back on the motorcycle and pick my music on the phone.The old me I’d of looked at my phone 20times hoping she texted me or a friend.Self validation makes life a whole lot more pleasant,and in being in such a good place allows that to rub off on others making you more attractive from what I fathom.

[1stTimer]

 It sounds like you are in a good spot Shamnlam. I don't know if I agree if you find your woman cheated you just calmly accept it and walk away, and don't know if being a 'man' means you accept everything calmly and stoically. I do think it means you don't continue to accept behavior from people just because you are afraid of not getting other things you need, youd have the confidence to know someone else would treat you right and you'd be worthy of them. But I don't think you need to accept it as a monk or a saint.

I agree walking with confidence feels good and gets you noticed. As I mentioned took the time since 'her' to get from flabby (not because of her, my mother handed me a picture of me at 25) and I have a boxers body now and I walk with confidence and look good and for the first time in years women are smiling at me on the streets again. And my own smile is naturally cool and confident.  So this girl hasn't crushed me into 'no one will want me' at all, she in fact is the one to have given me back my confidence initially. I just need to let go of the mystery. Because I realize it is HER mystery.

In your case it sounds like you were in a relationship with a far far healthier woman than I and you have  become a far better man because of it. I'm pretty sure she'll notice and respond.

[1stTimer]

If you are a man <~~ and I stress the word man, you will invest and give time to someone who deserves it.I

I'm glad you said this, it was one thing I kept stressing to Skip. That I did now know if I wanted to court this woman, she'd have to first show me by her behavior that she deserved to be courted. She asked me to early on to court her, which I found interesting given she was pursuing me and I was largely not interested. And I tried to tell her the same thing; give me a reason to besides being just being a woman who wants me.

[Shawnlam]

  In all fairness to my gf ,she took it upon herself to seek treatment and I’m in a place now mentally where I can give her the benefit of the doubt and trust her again.All that is in her hands really I refuse to worry about it anymore , if trust is breeched I will know and act accordingly, if not everything will flow naturally from now on. To my point about a woman cheating (or man for that matter) with or without BPD I’ve come to the realization it will happen regardless if you think about it all the way up to the event or not.If someone cheats on someone else there is nothing one can do to prevent it.So when I say I’d walk away having found out , I really would .My mentality would be ,” I guess she doesn’t want a stable man who loves her ,she’s rather a variety and live alone “, ok then time to find someone who will appreciate what I have to offer.The art of simply leaving isn’t a lack of backbone , taking a tantrum or vengeance would be infintile ,and wasting even more of MY time on someone who would be unworthy of anymore of it.Thats where I am now frankly,I prefer this to getting drunk or feeling sorry for myself like I used to .Its not so much ignoring the pain,the heart would feel the sting for sure ,it’s just not giving the other the satisfaction of an emotional reaction . How does that quote go? The best revenge is to show them your life is getting better after they’re gone? Learning to ignore things is one of the great paths to inner peace.

[1stTimer]

My female friend last night had great insight from reading the text too; she said the whole 'can I contact you to be available an hour from when I thing I can be free' was creepy not in terms of me but in terms of her and that she sounded like her time was not under her control. She didn't even know about the possible return to the abusive ex. But when I told her she said it sounded spot on. Busy people check their calendars, they don't find a time they can 'escape'.  

So as I give this more thought this seems to me like the likeliest scenario, I'll use it to move forward. Doesn't change her being a ****************** :| but gives me some 'reality' to hold on to moving forward so I can do so vs why this why that this makes no sense that does not since this scenario answers EVERYTHING

On our ':)ay' together as a couple, after the whole weeks and week-long 'I need to be asked, officially' and after the Big Dinner and our first night together and during the future bomb, she mentioned that the day of our dinner she saw him and was crushed and was going to cancel dinner (THE DINNER she pushed for so hard) until she got my nice email about it and it made her so happy.

I said I thought he was just a fling she said no I had real feelings for him (the insecure 'Alpha Male' who destroyed her self-worth and whom her friends said do not tell me if you get back together with him).

When she was kissing me at some point she said "So now YOU are the one who... " and would not finish. Later she said 'God puts people in our life for a reason'. It didn't sound good at the time, I think she had come to realize something like 'YOU are the one who made me want to be with HIM not the other way around'. As much as she'd tried to make us happen she realized, finally, she wanted him.

Suddenly next day she breaks it off after all that work to make it happen and the day of Future Planning? I can only surmise they were in contact that night and they reunited and he told her to get rid of me (she is not allowed to talk to other men let alone date them).

This explains
- never contacting me again.
#1 he is controlling and monitors her communications (one reason she got so careful about her text/email communications in general)
#2 she is 'in love' so there is no need to deal with her feelings about me.
#3 what can you really say after making someone ask you to commit and dumping them the next day that WOULD make any sense?

- when I send my first 'love letter' 3 months later her reply 'Thanks for the nice note. hope you are well'. I said at the time it was written like someone is reading her mail since it gives nothing away. And I assumed him since she had mentioned when they first 'dated' he monitors and controls her communications with men (little d**

- Her immediate excitement when I texted her, her immediate inviting me to our place, then going radio silent and two days doing the 'approved' communication "lots happening. can't make firm plans'. Shut DOWN.

- Her calling my letter again a 'note', and telling me she'd need to contact me within an hour of knowing she'd be available. That isn't busy. Busy people make plans. That is a person looking for a window to escape and hoping I can be part of it.

- Her disappearing. Again.

- Her overall lack of anger or hate towards me and in fact happiness and instinct to reach out and come to me.

It explains the way she runs the moment her instinct is to see me, it always seems like there is an 'entity' forcing her not to right after. Each time her gut seems to be genuinely calling her to me and I said before it seemed like e.g. her Grandma maybe kept threatening her with inheritance or something else like that; some OTHER person shutting her down and dragging her away.

This fits the entire scenario. She pushed me to what she did in fact want, he came along and it soured the entire dinner (she was almost manic), the next day and I believe WHY she did the future-bomb; terrified of him looming trying to close the deal and talk me and her into it and finally "So now YOU are the one who... .never mind God puts people in our lives for a reason" realized she wasn't going for the good guy who treated her great, she simply had to go back to the abusive "Alpha Male".

I can't compete with someone who beats her ass red the right way, makes her call him Sir and Mister when she has older man/daddy issues and destroys her self-respect when she has none. I don't want to. I want healthy.

I feel FANTASTICALLY much better now. Yeah I might be telling myself a story, it seems to me to be highly plausible, but what it gives me is what I needed. An "answer" I can use to free myself from this case, since I think what I wanted all along was an answer not a girl.