After a lull, very near to breaking point

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

The word "no" should never (or rarely) leave your mouth. 

small brain fart and not to take you off topic but D9 who is very sensitive says that she actually gets physical pangs when she hears the word "no" in response to one of her questions. This results in her asking for a menu of possibilities for things like sandwich fillings, in preference to asking for things she might like.

"No" = You're wrong (in entirety)

[Enabler]

The word "no" should never (or rarely) leave your mouth. 

small brain fart and not to take you off topic but D9 who is very sensitive says that she actually gets physical pangs when she hears the word "no" in response to one of her questions. This results in her asking for a menu of possibilities for things like sandwich fillings, in preference to asking for things she might like.

"No" = You're wrong (in entirety)

[Dragon72]

Not saying "no" isn't always straightforward though.
On the way to the park, we got a call from Jr's swimming teacher saying he was free for a lesson, so we turned back for that.
While we were at the swimming lesson, wife said, "Oh come on, let's go for a few days at the beach. Can't you see how much Jr's loving it? [emotional manipulation] We can get a loan from my brother and pay him back in December when you get your Christmas bonus."

I don't want us to always be living on credit and be spending as-yet unearned money in order to pay for luxuries. 

So I said "No".

[formflier]

 

So I said "No".

I'm on your side... .

You made a choice to say no... .you didn't have to. She tossed out an idea... .you could have restated your values... ."I'm interested in you showing me your idea without debt... ."  (hand it back to her)

then... at some point.

instead of saying no... keep handing it back...

Ask for it back "in writing"... .you don't want to "hear" the idea... .you want to "see" it.

Perhaps even go so far as to ask to see it in writing from her and her brother... .so you can even consider it (let alone say yes or no)

Let her do the work.

keep repeating that... .let her do the work.

FF

[formflier]

Hey... .I've been thinking about this dynamic where she is the "asker" and you are the "solver" or the one that perceives he has to say "no".


I'm certain she is getting some sort of "dysfunctional" need met or perhaps it is a "familiar" need met.  Would you guess that her family told her no a lot?  Or perhaps told her no because she didn't deserve it or some such thing?

I would encourage you to consider your responses so that you have time to "give it some thought" and also to "put it back in her court" (such as letting her know you need to see it in the budget).

So... you are saying these things sound wonderful and since you are sure she has thought it through it shouldn't be much to put it into a budget... .and that you are looking forward to examining it.

How often do you tell her "no".  What would life be like if you cut out 90% of that?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Hey Dragon,
What happened with the watch? Did she buy it? If so, how was she able to do so? Credit card?

When feelings = facts and wants are mistaken for needs, it's imperative for limits to be placed on purchases if they exceed the budget. What sorts of limits can you apply which will stop her out-of-control spending?

I like FF's idea of putting the ball into her court and asking how she's going to afford this latest "need" du jour. As you've mentioned, she has underperforming assets that so far she's not willing to convert to a monetary flow. Perhaps she might be willing if she knows you're not going to subsidize her latest want, now that you've already put yourself into red-line spending getting a new bed for her and your son.

My husband doesn't overspend, but he does sometimes get ideas of things he wants US to do, which often means ME taking the initiative to do it. If I'm not really interested in participating, I agree that his idea is "interesting" and do nothing about it. Left to his own devices, these plans often wither on the vine and he loses interest.

No conflict/no saying "no" to him/just returning the "project" to him to oversee.

Cat

[formflier]

  Perhaps she might be willing if she knows you're not going to subsidize her latest want, now that you've already put yourself into red-line spending getting a new bed for her and your son.
 

I would go a bit further.

You won't "discuss" her wants in any amount of detail until "she shows you the way".

The only discussion is a brief description of the pathway to you doing any further evaluation... .

FF

[Dragon72]

Well, I had to say "no" to her again today.  And this relates a bit to the watch question.

Rewind a day or two.  My wife was clearing out some of our son's old stuff and our neighbors who have a 1 year old boy expressed interest in our boy's tricycle.  "How much should I ask for it?" asked my wife.  I suggested half the ticket price of a new one in Walmart (about US$30).

I didn't hear anything more about it, but yesterday I noticed the tricycle had gone. 
":)id you sell the tricycle then?" I asked.
"Yes," she replied and no more was said.

This morning, my wife said she was going for lunch with her sister and she would take our son too.  "Great!" I said, "Have a good time".  Then she said they would also be going to a catalog discount jewelry store "to get my watch with my money" - she was referring to the "allowance" I give her every payday which is for purchases "just for her".
"OK. I hope you find a nice one," I said.

Then, just as they were heading out the door, she asked me for some money for today. 
"You've got the tricycle money. Use that," I said.
"But I was keeping that aside for our son," she replied. 
I thought, but didn't say, oh yeah? When were you going to tell me about that?
"So use your own (allowance) money," I said, "It's for a day out with your sister. That sounds like money you're spending for yourself. Besides, what are you going to spend it on? You said your sister is making you lunch... ."

She span on her heels and left without saying goodbye.

Although I didn't use the word "no", I held my ground and said it with my actions.

[Cat Familiar]

Good work upholding your boundaries on her spending! 

[Dragon72]

I also want to mention something that happened yesterday.

My wife had asked me to ask one of our neighbours (who speaks very little Spanish and who was moving back to her country of origin) if she had a clothes drying rack that she might let us have if she didn't need it any longer.  "When I get the chance," I replied.

It turned out I never got the chance.

The day after the neighbour left, my wife found out that the neighbour had given the clothes rack to another neighbour.

My wife turned to me and in the tone of a mother who is telling off a child she said my first name, my family name and her family name.  Sorta like: "John Smith Sanchez". (Not our names, but you get the idea.)

Here in Mexico, people conventionally have two last names: the first one from their father and the second one from their mother.  So, just like your mom used to use your full name when she was telling you off, she was doing the same with me, but giving me her family name.  

Now if she were doing that with our son, then fair enough: Johnny Smith Sanchez would be acceptable, because a) that's his full name and b) that's an acceptable way for an adult to talk to a child.

So I said to her, "I don't like the way you are blaming me for the fact that you didn't get something you wanted. Also, I don't like the way that you spoke down to me, especially because you got may name wrong. I'm not a Sanchez."

"But your name is John," she retorted, catching me on the technicality that I said she got my "nombre" wrong. "Nombre" means first name, whereas "appellido" means last name.

I thought it wasn't worth pursuing any more.  I said what I wanted to say. That was as close as I'll ever get to an apology from her.

[Dragon72]

Good work upholding your boundaries on her spending! 

Thanks, but actually I think I should have done better on the money from the sale of the tricycle.

[formflier]

How is it she has money to go eat out... by watches and all that, yet there is no money for a few more times at MC?

FF

[formflier]

Wonderful job on not saying the word no.

That is big improvement.  You will always be able to find something you wish was better (it's good to self improve).  That being said... .make sure you are patting yourself on the back... bigtime.

FF

[Harri]

This topic has been locked due to reaching the page limit.  Part 2 can be found here:https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327355.0