Our anniversary is coming - What to do with the silent treatment?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Well, FF, our anniversary has passed and I sent her a sweet card/invitation. Sort of of the missing you  kind. She didn't reply.   
 

I'm so sorry there wasn't a response... .   

What else can you do to be especially kind to yourself over the next few days.  Solid work doing your own thing and feeling your own feelings.  I'm sure they were wide ranging.

This kind of thing take "extra kindness"... .from you... .to yourself.  Personally, I found I needed to make that a habit.  From time to time my wife will claim I'm selfish... .I don't engage.

She can choose whether or not to express care for me.  As can I.  I choose to value me... be kind to me... time after time.

Hang in there...

FF

[formflier]

Well, FF, our anniversary has passed and I sent her a sweet card/invitation. Sort of of the missing you  kind. She didn't reply.   
 

I'm so sorry there wasn't a response... .   

What else can you do to be especially kind to yourself over the next few days.  Solid work doing your own thing and feeling your own feelings.  I'm sure they were wide ranging.

This kind of thing take "extra kindness"... .from you... .to yourself.  Personally, I found I needed to make that a habit.  From time to time my wife will claim I'm selfish... .I don't engage.

She can choose whether or not to express care for me.  As can I.  I choose to value me... be kind to me... time after time.

Hang in there...

FF

[braveSun]

Thank you for the hugs and kind words. I will have a bit of a time alone in the apartment  for the rest of the week. That's always a treat! ... I love my home. I'm content here living alone.

I went into a cleaning spree, and made it just the way I like it. My space. It's lovely. Cleaning was a bit cathartic.

Than I got some healthy foods, had a couple of good meals.

My internet stopped working, so I got that taken care of.

This morning I decided to do a 10 days meditation course on the theme of 'Returning Home to Self'. Feels like it's a good time for that.

Some energy clearing work. Some plain looking at the rain in the window. Taking long walks.
A tiny bit of shooting (photography).

This kind of thing take "extra kindness"... .from you... .to yourself.  Personally, I found I needed to make that a habit.

I kind of am getting to that place, yeah.

[formflier]

Today/tonight I'll be cleaning in the garage... .in prep for several repairs on autos over the weekend.

The organize fix enjoy cycle is very cathartic/pleasing to me.

FF

[braveSun]

How did the garage cleaning go FF? 

I've done quite a good one at the apartment. After that got done, I have been feeling a bit raw at times. My anxiety has been going up and down, especially over the weekend, as it's now been past the 3 weeks mark of her silent treatment. Money for the apartment is getting low now, and this ST continuation has a way to pull the rug (in my thoughts) from under me.

I do some grounding meditations as part of the course I am taking. Trying to take walks. I get a hole lot out of sharing more on the boards. I work at getting my center back. It's hard to not be fearful that she will do something that will impact my future negatively. Like regarding my immigration status, or if she doesn't give me money for the bills/rent coming.

I've looked online at some temporary survival jobs, and I think I'll get myself a resume for that. Because I can't be letting her scare me like this month to month. I feel like desperate when it comes to the ST.

Any tips?

Brave

[Notwendy]

I think it is a great idea to get that temporary job. For me, working has done a lot of good for me mentally in addition to the finances. It gives me a purpose to get up, dressed professionally, and have a sense of accomplishment. Although I keep boundaries on socializing at work, it is also a great outlet. There are plenty of "safe" topics to discuss with co-workers ( politics, and marriage are off limits) but we do chat about other things. It's contact with people. Having a BPD spouse can wear on your self esteem. A job can help you build it.

We can get this kind of camaraderie and sense of purpose with any kind of job. Also, by doing a good job, you will get some recent references. For your job of choice- they want to know your ability in that area, but also they want to know - are you reliable? honest? easy to get along with?  That is information any employer can provide.

So- I highly recommend you start where you can. It may not be "in" your direct field, but you may find it benefits you in many ways.

[formflier]

How did the garage cleaning go FF? 

 

Garage cleaning was somewhat limited... .however, I literally went through every piece of clothing in my closet and tried it on.  It either stayed or went in donate pile.

I had found some online deals, which I ordered and a bunch of shirts and shorts showed up.   There really wasn't room to put them anywhere... .because I needed to clean out and organize my stuff.

It's amazing to look in my closet and see lots of new things... .and ... .plenty of open room.

 

FF

[Cat Familiar]

You're inspiring me, FF. I need to do a lot of purging of stuff I don't need.

I generally do that anyway, but now I want to do a "deep dive" and focus on simplicity. I hate clutter and chaos. I'm a control freak if you didn't already suspect that.

I took a lot of building materials to the Habitat for Humanity store and it felt so good to donate stuff that others can use--plus my workshop and storage area felt so nice with more breathing room. Still more needs to be done.

And my clothes closet can use some work too. It's always a work in progress... .and interesting how it correlates to letting go of limiting ideas and old habits that are not useful.

[Cat Familiar]

braveSun,
I'm with Notwendy on getting a temp job. It's so nice to be around people who don't have PDs, that we forget how healing it is to have healthy social interactions. Of course, you'll run into PDs everywhere, but you won't be intimately involved and that's certainly refreshing.

Grounding is great (and so helpful in dealing with pwBPD) and so is getting out and taking walks.  What else have you learned through your mediation course?

Cat

[formflier]

Full disclosure... .the donate pile hasn't moved.  Perhaps I'll deal with that today... .but walking into an organized closet... .liberating!

Perhaps 10% of the donate pile may be put in a tote to be saved or passed down... .who knows.

I too love organization, but the craziness of my life and all of my "helpers" contribute to me looking disorganized.  JADE... .I know...

There are many times I just go "I'll deal with that tomorrow... .now I need sleep."


FF

[braveSun]

Cleaning closets, wow, I need to empty some left over boxes from the move last fall... I have tried to find some small cabinet to refinish and use it for the missing storage space. I have a difficult emotion going forward into finishing my homestead. There is so much uncertainty around my being here. Next month we'll have to reconnect with the immigration lawyer to get the last part of my residency filed. I get into some serious confusions over this. At night in particular...    

   There are many times I just go "I'll deal with that tomorrow... .now I need sleep."

  I keep a simple voice recording device by the side of the bed. I got quite of a collection of urgent thoughts  that ended just like this... .

JADE... .I know...

    Hey FF! I thought that JADE was a tool to use for pwDPs (or traits) but with nons, you can go on and on just the way your brain thinks...

  And my clothes closet can use some work too. It's always a work in progress... .and interesting how it correlates to letting go of limiting ideas and old habits that are not useful.

   That's interesting...

[formflier]

  I keep a simple voice recording device by the side of the bed. I got quite of a collection of urgent tho

I do a quick "voice activated draft" in my email.  Or type out a thought, that will help me remember later.

FF

[braveSun]

 
Of course, you'll run into PDs everywhere, but you won't be intimately involved and that's certainly refreshing.

    I love this!...  

 
Grounding is great (and so helpful in dealing with pwBPD) and so is getting out and taking walks.  What else have you learned through your mediation course?

     It's a very unusual meditation type. It's more like an 'empowered' meditative guided imagery. It is meant to guide you through some feelings and emotions you might experience when you are exploring more difficult parts of your inner self. More attuned to the senses, and identifying the feelings/emotions and exploring a bit beyond where I would normally just dissociate and stop inquiring. Themes are: opening up, letting go, embracing, connecting to heart, facing fears, sending love to tender spots. It's really cool.

I've shut down a lot of my emotional life with all of this PD's learning experience. I wanted to reconnect to my emotions, to just feel them since moving in the apartment.  Since having less in-person contact with my spouse I thought that I was going to do some of that type of work, but with a roommate around this has not been comfortable (some grief work is involved). Than now that both my spouse has gone NC and my roommate left at the end of her stay, I got a short period by myself at the apartment. So I signed up for the course.

It's a lot to digest, and one session/day can be a bit intense. Because of all the stuff that comes up after the meditation.

I got that on an app called Insight Timer, author is Sarah Blondin.

What's so interesting is that she doesn't talk about PDs or any of the language from the mental health community. She has more of a visionary kind of approach, like a coach. She takes into account, however, all types of sensitivities when guiding, including sensitivities a non would have, or someone who underwent a very life changing blow to self-esteem. She has also podcasts on SoundCloud, her ID is 'live awake'. Totally West Coast!...

I find it both challenging and cleansing. Good for fast growth times.

[Cat Familiar]

Hi braveSun,
It sounds like you're having your own personal spiritual retreat and doing some mental housecleaning. 

Is your wife still incommunicado?

Cat

[braveSun]

Yes Cat, she is.

[Cat Familiar]

I'm so sorry braveSun. So what's your plan? Do you ever try and intervene or just wait it out until she contacts you again?

[braveSun]

That's the tough part. I am going into a rollercoaster of my own, because of the financial stress if she doesn't put money in my account on time. I am also having to find a new roommate. I live near two universities. There are good chances now with the new school year approaching that I will find someone for a year, or at least until the end of May next year. That would take off a big burden of my plate. Than I could manage on my own with a survival job.

But with the ST I am undergoing a lot of rolling thoughts, mainly fears around her filing for divorce, or calling immigration to tell them that she is not sponsoring me any longer. That sort of thing. I have had bouts of shock type of feelings, where I feel frozen in fear. When that happens, I don't feel like I can project myself into any kind of future. Thus the clearing of energy and grounding meditations. Returning to my feeling self is what I need the most. So I can proceed with my tasks. When in high stress, it's difficult to know what I want to do next.

Being alone with these thoughts doesn't help. That's why I am on these boards. Reading on other people's stories is good to keep me in a broader perspective, and also for me to depersonalize my spouse's actions and words. Her doubts and distrust in me are way more intense than 'normal', and her concerns may be valid to some degree. But if I look into a wider time frame than just a year at a time, I can see that I'm not that bad in doing what I've been doing so far.

Just that she's not fully 'on board', and my plans can get wretched any time.

She might do these things I mentioned, and she might not. She has threatened to do these things last year, about same time of the year actually. She went to discuss her situation with lawyers, trying to find a way out that would cost her least money. She did put these appointments on her wall calendar for me to clearly see, she left a letter addressed to one of the divorce attorneys with a cheque inside lingering on the side desk by the house entrance door for weeks (maybe over a month) on. It was impossible to miss.

Than I left her for a month last fall. I couldn't take this any longer. And after I returned, we decided that I was going to find an apartment in the city and find work. The move was a happy(er) time. The nesting was very sweet. We both got hope that we could keep two homes. That's been the plan. For me it stayed the plan. But before two months being in, she started to press on again about how I was not doing my tasks right and that was why it was taking me too long. The job market, and the housing market in the city I'm in, and the limitations regarding my age on both plans, that didn't come into her mind.

I can't tell for sure what she's going to do. In any case, I can't continue living like this. Comes the end of this month, if I cannot find a roommate, and she doesn't put money into my account for the rent, we're both going to receive a late notice. It has happened a few months ago. She took about a week to deposit the money, and we had a late fee. I'm not sure I can take on much more of that type of responses from her because of my own credit score being affected. My ability to get my own place later on can be affected by these 'belated responses'. I feel a lot of this is maybe not 'planned' on her part per se, but definitely stems from an attitude of 'It's not my problem if Brave doesn't have a job yet.' (Her version of the reality.)

She has enough guts to try as much as she can to turn the tables around on my 'co-dependency'. I see something totally different here. I have PTSD from a past failed attempt relationship with a pwBPD. She thinks that I am inventing the PTSD in order to get more money from her than she would want to share. She even tried to prevent me from attending therapy last year, saying it was a waste of money, than saying she was not paying for it. Nor driving me to the appointments. She refused to go to MC. (I'm over that one now... )

For me being here on the boards is a huge help to gain perspective on what unhealthy mental health conditions people can get in, and how this wrecks havoc in their loved ones' lives.

My plans, if everything is not going to be disrupted , is to get a new roommate and to apply for a survival job now. Than get a therapist. And to deal with whatever comes next. Normally when I run out of money I end up having to ask her. But now with the ST I have not even been able to connect with her even around our anniversary.

So far I have tried my best to not contact her like I used to. I get the message it's best not to. I don't feel good about it. I feel a whole lot of stress has to do with the silence and keeping me in the dark, in order for her to obtain that I get a survival job and get out of her finances  . She's been having that type of discourse. She is certain that I am here to 'mooch on her money'. Her expression one time...    

I'm sorry Cat, this is painful to share. 



 

[Cat Familiar]

I'm so sorry, Brave. Financial insecurity weighs heavily on the mind, and you've also got your immigration status to consider.   

Does she have some sort of trigger about this time of year?

You're dependent upon her paying the rent on time and how if she doesn't, it will affect your future ability to rent. I think the roommate idea is good as well as finding a temp job. Anything to take steps to lessen your vulnerability will help. 

This is tough. But you've got strategies in place. 

[braveSun]

I'm so sorry, Brave. Financial insecurity weighs heavily on the mind, and you've also got your immigration status to consider.   

Does she have some sort of trigger about this time of year?

You're dependent upon her paying the rent on time and how if she doesn't, it will affect your future ability to rent. I think the roommate idea is good as well as finding a temp job. Anything to take steps to lessen your vulnerability will help. 

This is tough. But you've got strategies in place. 

Thank you Cat, for the hugs and for being my witness...   :'(  I can do these hard things but I need to have someone know somewhere that I am not doing these things because she tries to force me into them. I am not the kind of person she describes when she goes on with her rants. I understand that the stress might be on her as well. It does cost her money for sure. And the costs might be a trigger for her. She has said many times that this (my need for her support) feels like it is never going to end. Hard to not JADE. I just don't have it in me to do this because I agree with her judgements. I don't.

I will want to let her know of my opinions once I get my independence back. I tell myself I will not be able to continue the relationship if she goes on the way she has been.

It's a double whammy for me to engage into this uncertain future. I have no idea how this is going to turn out. If I can secure a long term roommate in the next week or so, I will have much more of a solid ground to operate from. If I don't I don't know what I will do.

I'm a problem solver. I certainly have strategies. I couldn't go on without a plan. I wish I could control all of those variables and nix all this insecurity in the bud. It just doesn't work that way. We plan things, and life does it always a little different. We need to assist life, to be open to opportunities. Do our best, juggle what's best option. For instance,  I know that some of her attempts at securing extra income on two projects failed last month. It's disappointing. I don't go on blaming her. I know that this might be a part of her triggers. She doesn't like to have to reduce her spending, I get that. It seems like she cannot have trust into life that things will work out eventually.

It's sad because in our history together, we've been through such tougher situations. We're both survivors of a major disaster. We've both had to endure and make do with years of discrimination, our relationship not being recognized. We've both fought hard to get our lives back together.

For me, being in her country without her being on my team, I feel cheated in some ways. When she does the ST, or she attacks me for not having this settled yet, I feel like I am losing her support and losing my confidence in doing this. Like why am I doing this, Alfie, if I'm the only one who believes in it?

Now I know that she has traits and she is high functioning. She could manage better when things were not such a challenge, or when we were not depending on each others. She is not so much depending on me now. She is rejecting me. That's stress related, yes. It's like, now that we know we've been through a lot, we also know that we both need a bit of a break on each other. We both need acceptance of who we are and how these life events have affected us individually. My spouse seems to have lost what I call her 'second degree'. Like she is now less functioning. She doesn't tolerate to share her vulnerabilities with me, and in not doing so, we end up being more like roommates to each other and feeling disconnected. With her type of sensitivity, being disconnected and having to make an effort to reconnect is not something she does well. She's more like a child throwing a tantrum. If I do, damned on me for trying to get close to her because than she thinks I want to mooch on her some more.

In the end I feel more like a child too, but the one who is being overly serious and who bears heavy weights, unseen. Does that make any sense?

I welcome all feedback and forms of support.

Thank you very much Cat!   

Brave

[Notwendy]

It is tough to feel financially vulnerable. I have an idea about this- and I think it is the push pull aspect of BPD and the fear of abandonment.  The more you are unable to leave them , I think the more comfortable they get with unleashing their uncomfortable emotions on you. I think we have all seen that there is some level of motivation on the part of a pwBPD to appear to hold it together, and also to act sweet and loving. But then, it can also turn the other way. I think a lot of what we do to enable or WOE is to bring that loving person back. When they dysregulate, they blame it on us and I think we assume that, if we correct what they are upset about, they will be their loving selves again.

Both sides are who they are. When we only want the good side, we actually negate a part of them- reject it. But that is the part that they are also afraid of- that if someone knew all of them, they wouldn't love them. I think they work pretty hard at hiding that side of them when they are in fear. I think the more secure they are that the person won't leave - the more that other side comes out. There is also the "I don't want to belong to a club that takes me as a member" If they feel self loathing, they may not feel loving towards someone in their "club". I don't mean we tolerate abuse, but I think it helps to radically accept the whole person and not one side of them.

I've observed with my BPD mother that she will use what she can to control her family members and I think this comes from her fear of abandonment. One method is with finances. If we are dependent on her financially she will then use the money in the push pull. If she is in victim mode, she will cut it off. I can relate to your situation from when I was in college. I didn't know semester to semester if I would have tuition money. Dad made the money but mother controlled it. If she was angry at me, I may not see it. I suspected she might do this so I only applied to affordable state colleges so that in the event that she cut me off, I would still be able to work enough to get by.

Although my H has some traits and isn't like my mother, there was a shift in our relationship when we started a family and I cut back on hours at work. Although he loves our kids and is generous with their needs like college tuition, I think our marriage was at its worse when I was pregnant with him. I didn't realize how much he fears I would meet someone I like better than him ( I haven't given him any reason to worry about this) and when I was pregnant and least likely to attract someone, he treated me the worst - as this fear was diminished. He actually preferred that I stayed home and didn't work- it alleviated the fear.

I also think being in another country puts you at a disadvantage. It is harder to find employment, there is less legal protection, and she has more advantages in her country.

It isn't my place to tell you what to decide about your relationship, but I do think that in a relationship with someone with BPD it is best to take care of who you are as much as possible. I realized that I was happier when I went back to work. Finances may be uneven- my H is still the main wage earner, but my job has emotional gains that are important to me. With other members it could be their hobbies, their interests. How a couple manages finances can vary, not all spouses are abusive with it but if yours is, it could be in your best interest to not be under her financial control.

[Cat Familiar]

The more you are unable to leave them , I think the more comfortable they get with unleashing their uncomfortable emotions on you... .I think a lot of what we do to enable or WOE is to bring that loving person back. When they dysregulate, they blame it on us and I think we assume that, if we correct what they are upset about, they will be their loving selves again.

When we only want the good side, we actually negate a part of them- reject it. But that is the part that they are also afraid of- that if someone knew all of them, they wouldn't love them. I think they work pretty hard at hiding that side of them when they are in fear. I think the more secure they are that the person won't leave - the more that other side comes out. There is also the "I don't want to belong to a club that takes me as a member" If they feel self loathing, they may not feel loving towards someone in their "club".

Wow! Very insightful, Notwendy!

[braveSun]

Thanks Notwendy for sharing such profound insights. I think it does bring about a shift in my understanding. So far I did want to believe that my spouse did not have a PD, or that if she does have traits, she was high functioning enough to be able to snap out of her fear-based reactions. Well it seems she does at times. I also believe that some of her close friends still believe that even more than I do. Unfortunately, it's only in those situations when we are ourselves vulnerable to them that this aspect of their coping mechanisms comes forward.

Your description of how it felt for you to not know if your tuition was going to be paid rings a bell. It's a similar pattern. I needed to understand more about this.

I don't know what I'll do frankly. I did feel the need to 'take care of me as I am', yes. That's why I have chosen the path of researching and developing some type of pre-business idea, instead of going straight for a low wage job, as she seemed to want to push me into. Now I think she is, pushing me into that. Because of her own insecurities. Like you were describing about your mom wanting you to attend a cheaper state college, so that you would be 'safer' that way, if at some point she would cut you off. You knew there would be enough to support you to finish your studies. Your mom wasn't sure (in her own reality). I can see that type of fear-of-self-vs-the-future in my spouse.

At my age (late 50s) its in my best interests to forge ahead in developing some type of residual income that could provide for some of these gaps in the future. I'm still at the stage in my new life here where I am laying foundations and developing some structure. I also understand that this type of fear-of-the-future is a part of living life, so to speak. We are intelligent, and we are sort of positioning ourselves the best we can within what is accessible in our economy.

I see that the immense fears can cause a sort of 'checking out' at some point in her.

[braveSun]

Although my H has some traits and isn't like my mother, there was a shift in our relationship when we started a family and I cut back on hours at work. ...   when I was pregnant and least likely to attract someone, he treated me the worst - as this fear was diminished. He actually preferred that I stayed home and didn't work- it alleviated the fear.

    This is quite controlling. I did undergo some of that. Last year she did cut me off, and I got scared. She had saved some money in our joint saving account and told me to use some of it for getting a (used) car. But there was not enough to get a decent car like I wanted. I waited a few more months and that's where she cut me off and told me to get a job. I could not wrap my brain around this 'instinct' she had than. A few weeks later she started to go see divorce attorneys. I ended up calling the national hot line because I didn't know what to do. They helped me talk through my fears and connect with some services. That's where I heard about the need for me to get a safety plan for myself. I took the money for the car.

Fast forward, I left for a month, used this money for my needs while away, for therapy all along, for tools for my work, along with some month-to-month personal expenses she was not providing any longer.  When I came back we talked and she, only than and once, said 'What can I do to help you?' I asked her to help me get started in the city. I think at that time she only had a survival job in mind for me. I didn't think that way, considering our own standard of living and my future.

I think she wants to control the financial part of my life. Like you say, she wants to keep me in need in some ways, or to punish me for wanting to be independent from her in a comfortable way. Not so much in a poverty-driven way, if that makes sense. Me living pay cheque to pay cheque, that seems to suit her fine.


That's why all of this is so difficult for me to move forward with. Because I see her controlling me to stay dependent on her, instead of letting me be develop my own means for a sensible future for myself. She won't be there in my old years. There might also be a dimension about it in the story. I am now living in the city in the apartment. She has two units on her property she uses for visits, and as an airbnb. She makes a bit of money with that, but very little, considering she has to pay for someone to manage the airbnb for her. And the bills. I suggested once that she considers renting the units, so we could afford the apartment as a secondary home and I would work on my own project until I get it going. She doesn't want to do that.

I also thought that because in our past we have traveled together a lot and enjoyed it, she would be wanting to keep the units open for home exchange possibilities. We've done that successfully before. But she says now she doesn't want to fly. The last time she offered me to use her points to go to my family in my country I did a quick search to see if we couldn't use her points instead to secure a lay-flat seat for her flight. She got furious at me for it. Because she said that she couldn't see herself enjoying being in a foreign city and not being able to walk around like we used to before.  Well, there are plenty of alternative options to walking everywhere. But before I heard about that  reason, I heard her yelling at me that I was out of my mind thinking of us paying for first class seats, that we could not afford such luxury, and that I was 'not in reality' to think we could splurge on such things. I mean the points would have covered half of her flight, so I would not say it's impossible, but I saw that she was throwing off some blanket statements that didn't match my own character, not even the situation at hand. BW thinking, that's all.

I see your point.

[braveSun]

I think a lot of what we do to enable or WOE is to bring that loving person back. When they dysregulate, they blame it on us and I think we assume that, if we correct what they are upset about, they will be their loving selves again.

   It's true that I did hope for that. In as much as she does show her best behavior at times now, and she used to be able to be her loving self again in the past. Only now I am discovering the whole package. And it's more of a staggered discovery in my experience. An accumulation of frustrating and painful situations. Now it's me who wants to correct (from my own mistakes, bad actions, mis-understanding, etc... ) according to my own values, what I sense is the right thing to do, and that brings with it another kind of difficulties.

Both sides are who they are. When we only want the good side, we actually negate a part of them- reject it. But that is the part that they are also afraid of- that if someone knew all of them, they wouldn't love them.

  Historically I've been the one who showed the most unconditional acceptance in the relationship. I used to be very open and warm. I got hurt with the other pwBPD I dated before I returned to my partner, than married her. And we've had some pretty traumatic patches in our lives too. We both know that.

In being in contact with the other pwBPD, I've learned a whole lot.  I've undergone therapy for it. I started to value boundaries. I remember saying to one of my therapists 'I am not anymore who I used to be, and I'll be frank with you, I don't want to return to who I used to be either. That part is over.'  I cannot un-know now that which I know. I can only try to understand more and better, and to integrate all of that into a new version of me now. I think it's the same for her, since the trauma-inducing events. But her responses and mine are not the same.

I can see the need for radical acceptance, yes. I have it for her to accept me as well. Not just her and me, but also her close friends, her sons (and ex daughters-in-law), and her adult grand children as well. We were all caught by the same life-changing disaster. Everybody their own defense mechanisms. It's also a bit like that in the South. A bit as part of the culture. We've all been through a lot.

I thought about this a lot. I have to find my own meaning through this situation, my marriage, the reasons for my presence here, everything.

 

[formflier]

  instead of going straight for a low wage job, as she seemed to want to push me into. Now I think she is, pushing me into that. Because of her own insecurities. Like you were describing about your mom wanting you to attend a cheaper state college, so that you would be 'safer' that way, if at some point she would cut you off. You knew there would be enough to support you to finish your studies. Your mom wasn't sure (in her own reality). I can see that type of fear-of-self-vs-the-future in my spouse.

BraveSun,

I think there is some incredibly important nuance here that you may be misunderstanding.

I would ask Notwendy to clarify if her Mom "wanted" her to go to a state school or if Notwendy chose that as an insurance policy for her Mom's instability.

I would also caution to to stay away from any type of thinking where you assume or believe your pwBPD is being "intentional" or "plotting" to get a certain outcome or put you in a certain spot, financially or otherwise. 

I see a "two part" thing going forward.

1.  You make decisions for you about your own financials.
2.  If she stops making agreed upon support payments, you need to cross that bridge when you get there.  I don't think I would bring it up until this actually happens... .if it happens.


Has she ever ACTUALLY not given you the support you agreed on?  If so, for how long... how much?

FF

[Notwendy]

It was my decision to apply to an affordable college for several reasons. She might cut me off- but if I could support myself, I could cut them off. I didn’t do that but it was reassuring to have the choice. Also I knew my father was in debt and could not afford a more expensive college. She preferred that the golden child sibling attend an elite college and my father took out additional loans to send that child there.

Brave sun- I think it mainly comes down to self esteem. I had low self esteem due to how my parents treated me. Ultimately we can’t rely on others for our self esteem but working is a source of self esteem for me. I also had ideas about our family working out this stay at home parent arrangement but not working hurt my self esteem. If we had better self esteem we would not allow other to devalue us or treat us this way. Keeping you at survival affects your self worth but the solution is through you.

I don’t mean to say leave her - but people have long distance relationships. What if you secured a job in a place where you could be self sufficient and be on fair grounds - which is likely in your own country? Then a “honey I love you but I need to support myself so I have a job at X “ would get you out of the financial bind.

[formflier]

Then a “honey I love you but I need to support myself so I have a job at X “ would get you out of the financial bind.

Is there a good idea here?  A choice?

Perhaps this is what you do if a support payment is missed or if she withdraws support.

I would caution you to not debate this... .but rather state it as a one or the other.  That you will be doing (fill in the blank) unless you hear otherwise (perhaps on a certain date)


FF

[braveSun]

It was my decision to apply to an affordable college for several reasons. She might cut me off- but if I could support myself, I could cut them off. I didn’t do that but it was reassuring to have the choice.

This is what I have come to decide with my plans to get a roommate, than a temporary survival job. To take the high stress out of my day-to-day. To get myself more into a 'normal' living zone. While it is my decision, it is the best decision I can make under the circumstances, and not the best choice for my future.

FF, cutting off money is a form of control in this case. It's not even a situation where I would need to learn to fend for myself in the world or anything like that. Or I would learn to take responsibility for myself. I'm in my late 50s and I worked most of my life. Lived in tight budgets for many years. I know how to manage money. I also know about my own capacities at my age. I don't know how old Notwendy was when this situation presented itself in her life, but I would say if she was a young woman at the time, with no experience managing money, than there could have been good reasons for her mother wanting to control her daughter's expenditures. But I doubt Notwendy was at risks from her own undoing in this case. It was more of a strategic move from her mother to send her son to another more expensive school.   

1.  You make decisions for you about your own financials. 
2.  If she stops making agreed upon support payments, you need to cross that bridge when you get there.  I don't think I would bring it up until this actually happens... .if it happens. 

I agree FF. I would not cross that bridge unless I have to. Only getting to that experience is not something I am choosing to have to live with month to month like it has been. It's too much stress.

About my spouses' intentions, well she did back her difficult behavior with some language that counts as threats. Divorce threats, stopping the financial support threats, sending me back to my country threats, calling immigration off threats, getting an annulment to our marriage threats, any of those. She also did cut me off her money last year, and did things like stopping our regular grocery shopping trips, avoiding buying the items on the list that I was writing, buying groceries at the last minute without the list, so she would not be accountable for covering both our needs in it. When I tried to bring it up all I got is a statement that 'it was her money, so she was doing what she wanted'. 'Go get a job and you can buy it with your own money.'

She would refuse me access to her car keys for a while (living in the country). She would say things like 'get a job, so you can get your own car'. She would encourage me to use the credit card she gave me for household or joint outing spending, but when the bills came in she would be outraged that mine was so much higher than hers. I would have to go item by item on the statements and try to bring up the events leading to us using my card and not hers,... under fire. She would tell me that I was not doing enough work in the house, meaning cooking because neither her nor me are big at cooking. But when I would want to do a particular dish, I could not count on the possibility to get the ingredients I needed. Most of all of this was all quite reasonable level of expenses in general, but more than she was used to spend (healthier too). 

This while dysregulating. Naturally money is a biggy for dysregulation, isn't it? ...

So she does not only said the above things, but also managed to create a trail of doubts between us around the validity of my actions, my needs, my intentions, my skills or capacities, our relationship, our marriage, my own mental health state. Her disappointments in me, her 'being tired of my needs', 'she made a mistake to marry me' (a person with no money of her own), 'I am here to mooch on her money', 'if I needed money to pay for therapy, how come I didn't get therapy in my own country before coming here' (well, I did, but that doesn't seem to make a dent on her argument because 'the therapeutic process must not have been that good than'. She's well practiced at that. That's why we're talking about walking on eggshells here.   

The most difficult part in this is that she will say that she is not interested in supporting me doing what I want to do, and when she sees the time to deposit the money arrives, she won't do the deposit but waits for me to ask her. Than she'll be difficult to reach on the phone, or take a long time to do what she said she was going to do, or yell at me that I have not found a job yet, 'how long is this going to take more', 'all you have to do is to endure an hour/month of fit, so you make good money working one hour/month', etc... . 

One time I did ask her point blank if she preferred that I would get a PT job to reduce the burden, she said no. She doesn't .  Because she doesn't want to have to keep paying for me for the difference that I wouldn't make. (I have been afraid of moving into the future just for that reason alone for a long time, not sure how to approach this, than came over here and tried posting and using tools.)

She's just impatient and throws a fit or a curveball every month, around the time when rent or bills come due. She also has no patience for the various irregularities that comes along. Like when a roommate leaves early in the month and a deposit is due back, or there is nobody for a few weeks between roommates, or payment is late and there is a late fee.

SIDE NOTE: I know us leasing is more expensive than say if I moved out again and set myself up with some other person holding the lease themselves. We both thought about it at the onset. At my age it's better I have the control on the lifestyle I want to live in, and invite a roommate in, rather than me going out and trying to adapt to other people's ways. Most people with roommates are much younger than me. She also did like the apartment very much and we both took it thinking that we were going to have it for just us at some point down the road.

I would caution you to not debate this... .but rather state it as a one or the other.  That you will be doing (fill in the blank) unless you hear otherwise (perhaps on a certain date).

I'll keep that in mind when comes the opportunity. No choice yet. Jobs and roommates may just appear around the corner, but I have no control on that. I have only estimations of when things might be best times and when it's least likely it would work (roommates). For jobs, it depends on what I am looking for really. There are many steps in preparing, including brushing up skills (Maybe posting on these boards will increase my typing speed, ah!   , preparing interview questions, writing cover letters on why I am the best candidate for xyz,... Notwendy is right about the self-esteem issue when living with a pwBPD. In my situation the brushing off with my spouse is eroding my self-esteem. It's hard to want to brag about yourself while your own spouse is treating you like as if you were untrustworthy (Her words and short term actions, Thanks FF!). 


Tuesday is going to be the one month mark of ST.


Thank you FF, Notwendy, Cat, for your insights and your steady support. It means a lot to me. Keep on posting, it does help me understand this better.

Brave

[Cat Familiar]

Hey braveSun,
I know the denial about not wanting to accept that our partner has a PD when they're otherwise high functioning.

You've seen a pattern of her exerting financial control: not paying your rent on time, refusing to let the apartments and turn them from non-performing assets into money that would offset the cost of your apartment, cutting you off, not giving you enough money to get a decent car, etc.

When pwBPD have so little control of their own emotional state, my belief is that they seek external means of control, and you're experiencing just that.

I've certainly experienced it in my own relationship with my husband. Briefly--I spent nearly all my money to expand my little house so we could live together when we got married. It cost a lot more than I thought. The agreement was that he would pay my expenses (a minimal sum) in perpetuity as his part. (Then he inherited a ton of money.) Now more often than not, he "forgets" to pay me my monthly "allowance" and I get really close to zero in my bank account.

I feel like a child asking him for money and he apologizes for forgetting, but he has not taken steps to doing an automatic deposit in my account as I have suggested, and the cycle keeps happening over and over. Now I'm getting over my own trigger about asking, but it still sucks.

So if I had the time to work (with all my home handywoman responsibilities and garden and animal care duties) and if there were suitable jobs here in our little town that paid a worthwhile wage, I would do that, just to not feel vulnerable.

I hear you, braveSun. And I hope you can find a suitable roommate to take off some of the pressure you're now feeling.  

Cat

[Harley Quinn]

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