I think I'm completely done

[formflier]

After she wouldn't stop yelling at me in the car I got out at a red light and took public transportation. 

Max... .so sorry you have to deal with this... .but I have to say I'm very proud of you for taking this action to "take your ears somewhere else".

FF

[BurntOutFromBPD]

I hate taking time off work because I know it will be more stressful at home.  Road trip with my wife?  I dread the stress.  A "vacation" to me is a leisurely day at work where I don't have to answer numerous text messages or am not begged to come home early.

Today she was driving me to work.  Big mistake.  She started on me before we left the driveway because she forgot her glasses.  Somehow that was my fault.  I simply could not take it for the remaining 20 minutes to work.  After she wouldn't stop yelling at me in the car I got out at a red light and took public transportation.  I'd rather that than listen to her scream at me and call me names while trapped in a car (with the kids in the back seat).

Sorry to hear that, I know exactly what you mean feeling more stressed off work than on. Had so many experiences in the car like you mentioned, eventually we would always take 2 cars, and swap or separate the kids to avoid 30 minutes of constant yelling. Also have to sleep in separate rooms, I need a sanctuary where I can switch off from it, and after a while we both found we slept better and enjoyed having our "own space" and area. I dont think I could ever go back to living in the same room, and usually I have to sedate myself before a long car ride together (she always drives because of serious control issues when I do).

[Enabler]

Hey there burntout,

So so sorry to hear that the T session wasn’t productive, although maybe in a perverse way it was. Anyone who comes to a marriage counselling or even a T session and says it’s 100% them is pretty much saying to a T “I’m the problem here”. Now, ‘fault’ is what people with PDs care about, solutions and healing is what healthy people care about. Your T has now seen for his own eyes some of the issues so hopefully can work with you to find solutions... .likewise we as a community will assist you on that front.

Not to be smug in the slightest, but I have the pleasure of being on a 2 week holiday with my 3 kids without uBPDw. It was a 600m drive which took 12 hours. Historically this would have been very stress filled. We managed it with only one major dysregulation by D9 which is unheard of. I’ve also realised that holidays on my own are no harder since I did a decent amount of the organisation and logistic myself on previous holidays. The drawback seems to be that I get to taste fewer wines as I have no one to share each bottle with. Kids are calm, they know the boundaries and stick to them.

Keep doing the things you want to do or feel you need to do for you... .the rest... .leave on the roadside for your W to look, point and scream at. When she screams, laugh internally “I know what you’re doing here”.

[formflier]

BurntOutFromBPD

Had your counselor ever met your wife before?  

Approximately how long would your wife talk before the counselor would talk or interrupt?

What comments or advice did your counselor have?  id you have individual time after your wife was done?

My guess is the reason your wife is being nice is part of the "carrying you for 17 years" thing.  Perhaps a bit of a martyr thing.  Almost guarantee you it's not well thought out... .but an emotional impulse thing.

At first glance, I'm very glad your counselor go to "see" what you are dealing with.  I hope that will improve her guidance to you and help you better reflect on parts of your life.

Be extra kind to yourself... .  

FF

[Red5]

... .a 2 week holiday with my 3 kids without uBPDw. It was a 600m drive which took 12 hours. Historically this would have been very stress filled... .

... .Oh' yes... .we recently took a weeks "vacation" to ND to see W's son and wife, in fact I wrote a post about the experience   ... .and as per historical "data", .I knew exactly how it was going to go, in fact I was "calling shots" before they even happened  ... .it was VERY stressful, .but I did it for the "over all good " hmmm, .in fact I needed a vacation away from W when we got back home... .

A work trip sufficed.

I agree with this line... . 

"Anyone who comes to a marriage counselling or even a T session and says it’s 100% "them" is pretty much saying to a T “I’m the problem here”.

Talk about "showing the cards"... .ie' the ole "you guns"... .

Hope all is well today BurntOutFromBPD !

Red5

[BurntOutFromBPD]

Had your counselor ever met your wife before?  

Approximately how long would your wife talk before the counselor would talk or interrupt?

What comments or advice did your counselor have?  id you have individual time after your wife was done?

No she hadnt and it was a last minute thing if my wife was going to go or not. My wife would talk for a number of minutes straight and absolutely said everything she wanted or needed to say that had been built up for a long time. I think she had planned having some session with some counsellor at some time to lay all this on me. What the session was supposed to be turned into what she wanted it to be which was to "prove" all the things she has been saying to me and "lay it all on the line" like it was an intervention or something expecting the counsellor to agree with her and work with me on these things.

When the counsellor asked me questions, my wife answered them for me. At one point she said she was so convinced this is the problem and that it is 100% not her and that I have mental health issues and she knows she doesnt and is rational in what she is saying and demanding. I was completely broken down by the end of the session. I was bracing for it to be bad, but I felt completely destroyed. Could barely speak anymore, physcially shaking with my head in my hands. My wife used that as proof "see, I dont get upset or angry and look at how he is and how ridiculous it is and I have to carry him."
She walked out to her car (thank god I suggested we take separate cars), and my counsellor basically just pulled me aside and said "I see, I understand and I'm sorry".

My counsellor wanted me instituted for severe mental health and suicidal urges, but I talked her out of that. I have another session with her next week on my own and I dont think we will be attending anymore sessions together ever again.

[BurntOutFromBPD]

Oh lovely lovely. More immediate divorce threats again today, more of the "I keep literally begging you for help and I have never ever gotten support and I am leaving" again. This was after I left work last night, stopped got her prescriptions and groceries, did a load of laundry, cleanup up 7-8 spots where the animals have peed/pood on the floor which was left for me to deal with, and took care of the puppies all night. Arranged multiple contractors for the house repair quotes on the weekend, filed new insurance claim, updated existing claim, and registered the animals in her name.

I know doing more doesnt mean the attacks will stop and will probably make them go worse. But the truth is most of these things I do or would do anyway if asked or not. I just would probably stagger them more and manage them differently rather than jamming everything into every spare moment ever. But I dont want to live like this anymore. I cant live my life like I am having to manage someones behaviour every single day. I dont see how I can do this anymore.

[juju2]

Hi!
Appreciate your story,am separated from my s.o., we were together for ten yrs, separated for one yr now.

Hang in there.  What i saw was i am co dependent, i need to develop strength within myself, my boundaries, self care, self love, its an opportunity to show myself that i am able to care for myself.
I am not a victim.   I choose to care for this man.
People w BPD are special people.  When i realize that i am not a victim, i can choose whatever path i want, i am free.

I do not need to live in fear, blame, or shame.

Blessings,
j

[formflier]

I know doing more doesn't mean the attacks will stop and will probably make them go worse. 

Hey... .even if they are things "you probably would do anyway"... .I would hope you can consider that if you continue doing some that will make things worse... .things will continue to get worse.

Can I challenge you to look at the list of things and pick half of them to give back to your wife (and be ok with your wife NOT getting them done).  Or perhaps let the natural consequences flow down to your wife... .no saving

Look at it another way... .why save your wife from adult responsibilities? 

Pick another perspective... .what if saving your wife from adult responsibilities contributes to her inability to "do" adult responsibilities?

Please understand... .I'm not suggesting this is your "fault" but I am suggesting you have a responsibility to not make things worse.

Just like many people eventually understand that handing a drink to an alcoholic is not helpful... and "they may find another way to get a drink"... .people still have a "responsibility" to do their part.  (very loose analogy... hope it makes sense)

FF

[Cat Familiar]

She accuses you of not being helpful and supportive, threatens to leave and divorce you. Meanwhile you're picking up her prescription, grocery shopping, doing laundry, getting contractor quotes, dealing with insurance claims, and cleaning up puppy poo and pee. As you know with pwBPD,  Feelings = Facts.
And meanwhile, all that you're doing is not seen or registered by her.     

You feel like you can't keep on shouldering all these responsibilities and be treated so unkindly by her. She threatens leaving you and divorcing you--what would your life be like if she followed through with these threats?

[Red5]

Cat is making some very powerful points here Burnt Out !

*She accuses you of not being helpful and supportive, threatens to leave and divorce you.

This is projection to me, she is turning/projecting “it” back onto you you.

*Meanwhile you're picking up her prescription, grocery shopping, doing laundry, getting contractor quotes,
dealing with insurance claims, and cleaning up puppy poo and pee;

I do this as well, ie’ work all day in the yard, sweat  toil, & labor… she does not help me… mowing, weed eating, edging… trimming, picking up limbs, removing WHOLE trees, till my ole’ back is sore beyond anymore ability to even move… but I did not help her “paint a wall in the house”, and I did not “clean two carpets” in the house that her mother’s little dog pee’ed on last time we dog sat for her… really !/?

*And meanwhile, all that you're doing is not seen or registered by her.

See above…

* She threatens leaving you and divorcing you.

Hmmm, ok?, don’t let the door hit you in your caboose I say.

*As you know with pwBPD,  Feelings = Facts.

I call this “emotional reasoning”…

*You feel like you can't keep on shouldering all these responsibilities and be treated so unkindly by her.

Yep, that ole’ song and dance gets pretty old does it not !… as the primary (sole) provider, I do take issue with being treated like a galley slave, yes I do !

…what would your life be like if she followed through with these threats?

In my world, I got a pretty good idea, and from this grid square, that looks pretty appealing to me... .I tell you the truth, once I "removed" her threat, ie' she now knows I don't care either way, I have removed the wadding and fuse from her cannon, so now; if she says the "" word, it has zero effect, and she has now realized this.

Hang in there Burnt Out !

Red5

[BurntOutFromBPD]

And meanwhile, all that you're doing is not seen or registered by her.     

That is the part that no matter how much  I cannot seem to not be emotionally affected by it. That's the big thing for me, I cant switch that off no matter how much every other part of me tells me to ignore it or don't react.

My question to those of you who are able to do this, how were you able to stop the internal emotions and stay calm / solid during the times they throw everything at you and diminish every single thing you do?

Even if I dont verbally react or stay rational, my body language always seems to betray me. Even if everything in my head knows the real truth and where this is coming from, my emotions and physical reactions do everything they can to take over.

[BetterLanes]

Hi BurntOutFromBPD,

I'm really bad at "poker face". I was accused by my H the other day of "looking at him in the wrong tone" 

I find what works best is to distract yourself or depersonalize what is happening in some way. Here are some fixes you could try in the moment and see which works for you:
- Sing a favorite uplifting song on repeat inside your head (out loud will annoy them).
- Identify what's funny (or just unbelievable) about the situation (Red5 is the expert here!).
- Think up an empowering heroic character based on a favorite book or movie (or pick an existing character) and role-play this character inside your head (how would Captain America react during this conversation?).
- Decide on a villain character from a book or movie that your partner is acting like right now. Imagine they are this character. (Try not to laugh out loud.)
- Think through how you will tell your therapist about what is happening.
- Think through how you will word a post on bpdfamily about what is happening.
- Make a mental list of points that could be cited as "unreasonable behavior" in a divorce, and journal these later.

But remember pain, including emotional pain, is a warning that something's deeply wrong that needs fixing, and these are just painkilling meds for the immediate situation. Like it says on the packet, "if you need to take these for more than three days, see a doctor".

Hope that helps,
BetterLanes x

[formflier]

, I cant switch that off 

And I hope you aren't reading advice to "switch off"  (perhaps we need to clarify some words)

I actually think "more authentic" is the key.

Your spouse comes in... .and says  "blah blah blah... flying monkeys and you don't love me... "

Stay authentic... .express shock  "Oh my goodness babe... .I have no words.  I'm going to have to take a break and think this through."

See... .you are authentic... you expressed shock at shocking things... .yet you also didn't punish and judge. 

What would "staying switched on" and adding in an immense amount of self care look like?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

My question to those of you who are able to do this, how were you able to stop the internal emotions and stay calm / solid during the times they throw everything at you and diminish every single thing you do?

Of course you get emotionally triggered by her unreasonable behavior.     That totally makes sense. Anyone would. The trick is to turn down the volume on your emotions. And another biggie is to not stand around and participate in those harangue sessions. Yes, sometimes you might be trapped in a car or somewhere else where an exit isn't feasible. But you are under no obligation to listen to that unkindness.

You can say, "I can't have this discussion now." Or, "Until we can calmly discuss this, I'm not going to participate in this discussion." Or, "Let's talk about this later after a good night's sleep so we can be at our best." Figure out something that you can say beforehand to exit the conversation.

Without having strategies like this in place, I want to give you an overview of how it used to play out in the past with my BPD loved ones. Like you, I knew in my head the reality that my pwBPD (either my mother, my first husband, or my second husband) was coming unglued and making all sorts of wild exaggerations (making a mountain out of a molehill) and accusing me of having weird and unkind motivations. My first instinct was to go to the "It's not true" defense and try to set the record straight with logic. (This would be a perfectly acceptable strategy with a normal person and would have a good chance of working. However we are dealing with pwBPD and need to throw standard rules out the window.)

And of course, as expected, my pwBPD would now get even madder and more out of control and I would get increasingly fearful, feeling totally at the mercy of their bizarre emotional outburst.

I'm someone who has a great poker face (developed early as a coping strategy for dealing with my BPD mother). And my lack of emotional expression has been used against me--"You don't care!" Even though on the outside I could appear calm, on the inside I was anything but calm.

So it's been a real blessing for me to learn the Rules I've learned here. One of the biggest and most effective rules of engagement is NOT TO ENGAGE. If you've ever studied martial arts, likely you've learned is that the best strategy in the real world is to walk away from a fight. Fight only when you absolutely have to. And that goes for listening to a BPD dysregulation.

Let her dysregulate by herself and when she's calm and can speak civilly, then, and only then, do you participate in a conversation. It's easier said than done, I know and it takes time to change patterns.

So, to answer your question about how to stay calm and centered when your wife is saying unkind stuff--"I won't be spoken to this way." Then if she continues, leave the discussion, leave the room, leave the house, whatever it takes to regain your peace of mind.

You may have never done this before, and most of us nons haven't. Boundaries are key. Most of us wouldn't tolerate some wackjob on the street speaking to us and telling us we're awful people, yet we tolerate it with our BPD loved ones? No more. Done. They're welcome to think whatever they want, but when they speak to us, we need to be treated respectfully. Period.

[formflier]

  Yes, sometimes you might be trapped in a car or somewhere else where an exit isn't feasible.

If you add "moving" car... .then I might agree.

Certainly walking away at a stoplight is a pain in the rear (and look both ways)... .but once there is a clear understanding from your pwBPD that you won't be "trapped"... .the behavior will usually slowly die off.

When I'm driving I will "take her home" or sometimes stop the car and say "We can talk about this later or I can take you home now.  Your choice."

And then sit in silence.  She used to keep yammering.  Now that is rare... .we usually move it to later and later usually never happens, since her feelings have passed.

FF

[Red5]

… no matter how much I cannot seem to not be emotionally affected by it… that's the big thing for me,
… I can’t switch that off no matter how much every other part of me tells me to ignore it or don't react.
… how were you able to stop the internal emotions and stay calm / solid during the times they throw everything at you and diminish every single thing you do?
… even if I don’t verbally react or stay rational, my body language always seems to betray me.
… everything in my head knows the real truth and where this is coming from, my emotions and physical reactions do everything… they can to take over.

Hey Burnt Out,

With me, it’s taken literally years… years of learning, learning the hard way.

I recall many of the fights of yesteryear… as you describe, “they throw everything at you and diminish every single thing you do?”

What do I remember doing, I remember fighting back of course, and when logical facts (JADE) did not work, I did resort to dirty tactics, ie’ fight fire with fire.

We had some real humdingers, boy we sure did… no not nice at all.

I can think of about ten things off the top of my head, lines crossed, such mean and vile things said, end of the world stuff, marriage scuttling, relationship sabotaging things… in anger, some in self-defense, some by me in outright anger at what she was giving to me, saying, yelling at me… terrible.

So what changed, well, kind of like the stages of grief I think, before I ever understood anything about BPD,

I went from What the heck did you say (do), to then outright anger (verbal fighting), then reprisal (sometimes physical/destructive from both her & me), to feeling lost and depressed, then to wow this is really broken, to ok that’s IT… I am GIVING up… “F” this krap.

… right about then, I came across this BPD explanation, some sixteen months ago now, and I started to learn, read, and I engrossed myself into it… I guess I wasn’t ready to give completely up quite yet after all… still she raged, and I was getting the treatment, but I came to a place of, “its not really about me is it”… I had empathy, and I started to try to understand just whom I had married in the first place… still hard to take yes it was/is, but at least it was not “so personal” each time I was/am attacked.

So what do I do, how do I handle her now, my udx BPD wife?

Well, I do not fuel it, I just listen, I no longer JADE, unless it’s absolutely necessary, and when I do… I understand I will not win, but the boundary must not be breached by her… so I drop my ordnance anyway, and then leave the area, ie’ consequences of her going just a bit too far.

I understand that when she dysregulates, its not about me, as BPD cannot process their thoughts, so it come out all garbled, and they attack, and it all comes out sideways… so I just cross my arms, and say “yes dear”… sure!… whatever you say.

I tell little “white lies”.
I don’t tell her everything.
I hold back triggering information.
I avoid her when she is a crank.
I hug her when she wants a hug, when she doesn’t, I stay the H3LL away from her, and that’s that.
I set, and maintain boundaries, even when its painful, oh’ yes I do.
When she wants to talk, I listen, but I am brutally honest when she asks for my input, whether she likes it or not.
She labels me an A$$-Hole, a jerk, a real basterd sometimes… that’s her issue, not mine, I no longer care what she thinks of me!
She labels me controlling, that’s her issue, not mine, I no longer care, what’s good for me, I protect now.
She labels me insensitive to her romantic needs, that’s her issue, not mine, I no longer care.
She labels me as a black and white thinker, all or nothing (yeah she really does!), that’s her issue, not mine, I no longer care what she thinks about me.

Have I given up, yes, on many things I have indeed, as I am now extremely realistic about this marriage relationship, no more fantasy ideations about the perfect little wife and marriage anymore , where it has come from;… what it is now, and where it’s going in the future.

It has taken a long time, years maybe, but I have reinvented myself to her, my persona, my “bearing” around her… have I changed, perhaps I have, I recall a much older thread here about “who were you before BPD came into your life”… so yes, I have changed, in order to survive in this marriage/relationship.

All things considered, not much of a relationship is it(?), in the context of being “yoked” together… no, more like chained together … be advised, humor is key to your survival, look for humor in the never ending BPD crazy… it’s there, you just got to look for it.

Down to the nitty gritty, she is in my grill, and saying this and that, snarky, mean, outright attack.

I just stare her down, like a drill instructor… that’s the language she understands… I say nothing for a while, I actually tune her down some so I can think… I pull up my mental checklist (tools)…
*Is this hill worth dying on, yes or no.
*Can I calm her down, yes or no.
*Is this in anyway a valid argument, in any sense of the word, yes or no.
*Is SET required here, yes or no.
*Has she been drinking, how much have I had?
*Is she throttling up, is there about to be projectiles launched.
*Do I want to “help” her down outa that tree she’s climbed up into, yes or no.
*Do I really give a $H1T one way or the other about any of this latest line of BS she is shoveling out, yes or no.
*Is it time to launch countermeasures, yes or no.

Ok time to act, I have said nothing, and I have taken none of the bait, she is till cranking on, I am done with this one, time to break suction, and I say to her… “ok Babe”, you are not going to speak to me in this manner anymore this evening, you are done, I am going to make myself a mason jar of adult beverage, would you like one too?… NO!… ok then, as you wish (she now starts into calling me names)… alright I say, the time on deck is 21:55 hundred hours, my show is about to come on, and I will be retiring for the evening after that, (she is all the while interrupting me, but I continue speaking)… I hold up my hand, flat and palm out, and say… “this discussion is over, why don’t you just go to bed, I will be in the office, good night”!

There was a time when she would have walked all over me at that point, but she does not do it anymore, I have over time, through consistent action, and holding my boundary, and NOT returning her blather, gotten her to burn herself out… whatever she says to me, whatever she calls me, I don’t care anymore, and my persona, my bearing exudes this… as far as a poker face, I have the old weathered stern face of an old judge, about to sentence horse thieves to the gallows as I look at her… she knows how I feel, and she knows that her blather manners none.

Sometimes, I burst into sarcastic and unfathomable laughter, and tell her she is talking crazy, or off her rocker, or that’s the funniest thing I heard you say in a while, yes mocking… but a very effective countermeasure to her anger… sometimes… I clap my hands together, and say “BRAVO BRAVO… what a show, I am impressed… Oh’ boy”… that usually makes her storm off to the bedroom, and slam the door, and then it’s quite about the decks for the rest of the evening.

DON’T let them get into your head… you do that, it’s over, and you will be run over… maintain your demeanor of strength, you are the man of the house, don’t give away your power.

A woman can do the exact same thing.

Yes, if I don’t JADE, fight, or go into fright mode, but just stand there, like the grand old A$$ - Hole she says I am, and say nothing back, usually she retreats, so far so good, fifteen plus months after the BPD “epiphany”.

Whatever you find that works… works, till it doesn’t anymore, then try something else.

Good Luck Burnt Out,

Red5

[BurntOutFromBPD]

After I mentioned earlier following the disastrous counselling session I decided to do what I normally would do on weekends and I actually got thankful comments and things pointed out like why did I not do that before?

Then I got a lecture again that she cant keep begging me for help, and went back to all the previous rants after stating she didnt want a divorce and appreciated me making an effort. Minutes later it devolved back into all the same blanket statements which I just walked away from.

Then I got this SMS on my phone which could qualify for an essay:

"Why did it take 2yrs and me being miserable and getting to a point where I was leaving for you to help out and listen to what I was saying? Is that one wknd that ur willing to help or are you going to change and start to step up? I am so sick of fighting for anything and everything. I understand ur stressed and miserable. That doesn’t excuse you.

Do you realise you do everything twice, why not just do it right the first time? You clean your room only for it to be destroyed by the same night. Why not actually throw away ur trash in the trash can the first time, or put laundry in the laundry basket, instead of the cycle of making a mess and then spending hours cleaning what could have been done correctly the first time? Or when watching the dogs, actually watch them instead of just cleaning up after them. Or when putting together something and not finishing then put the tools/screws etc somewhere that they won’t get lost? Or the countless other things that you are too stressed out to focus on what you are doing so rush through and don’t do correctly or loose or destroy it Etc.

Why have we refinanced the house and yet ur more broke now? What ru spending ur money on bc I’m beyond sick of going through my savings and having nothing to show? 

I guess after two years of fighting I no longer feel the same and no longer believe you will change and I no longer have the energy to spend two years fighting to get help.

I do love you but it’s been too hard for too long and I’ve lost faith that you actually want to be happy. I know ur sick and unhappy and I feel bad for you but I can’t keep doing this. I don’t have the same issues and I actually can be happy, I’m sick of the constant negativity. I know you are too but after 17yrs I need to accept that you can’t move on from ur mind no matter what actions I take or how much I carry.

The idea of staying in this relationship just exhausts me. I have given everything and I have nothing left to show. Spent 100’s of thousands of dollars, planned vacations, worked, cleaned and still you were miserable. I need to accept I can’t make you happy, you are the only one who has the power to choose to be happy. I need to let go of your problems and allow myself to b happy and live my life without fear of your anger or moods.

Going to your counsellor actually didn’t help, it made me think this will never change. Her saying things like ‘Luke is not a tiler’ is bs! Neither am I yet it has fallen on me to complete for years. Asking the amount of time I’m home when I’m studying full time is also bs. I guess in her eyes marriage is a competition. Her pointing out that it doesn’t matter what I do or who your with that you would be in the same place just reaffirms that nothing I do or say will ever be enough for you and I can’t keep doing it all. I might as well be single, it would actually be less work and less stressful. You don’t know but several counsellors over the years have told me the same thing, with ur mental illness I either need to accept that this is life or choose a different life. I never wanted to believe that but I guess I just need to accept it.

I hope you finish the house to sell it but I’m fine just signing the papers and selling it for whatever we can get. Finishing uni so I get respect from people I don’t care about is futile. I want to  back home and I am not waiting for uni/kids/house/work etc anymore. It’s all just excuses and I’m done with excuses.

I need to be healthy if I’m going to raise another child and I can’t be with all the stress that you carry. I’m choosing how I want to live my life instead of being pushed and pulled bc of you or the kids. In the last month I’ve spent close to 10thousand just covering groceries and bills and day to day life.

I won’t do it anymore, I’m going to spend the last of my savings planning my move. I refuse to have this child here. Before we found out I was pregnant I was working on myself to build up the strength to leave and just because I’m pregnant I decided to try and stay but I have been up thinking all night why should I keep trying when it’s been pointless and made no difference except that I am now beyond tired?

Maybe it’s my disability, maybe it’s the pregnancy or maybe I’ve just reached the end of my patience but I don’t see the point of being in a relationship anymore. It’s taken too much of me. I’m really sorry it’s come to this point but I just can’t keep doing this anymore. I begged for help and marriage counselling for years and now I just don’t have the energy to keep going. I hope we can stay friends because I do love you and want the best for you but if not I accept that too. "

She is so deep into the perception I dont think I will ever get past it. Whenever I do anything, she nitpicks it to the point where I am better off doing nothing. If I do anything as she pointed out above, I never get it right the first time, and whenever I am doing anything I am being pulled in so many different directions and distracted so many times it is impossible to finish many of these jobs unless she is not around. But she is home when I leave in the morning and there when I get home and on weekends so at no time can I do anything without comments, negativity, nitpicking, or put downs. I completely resent being in this marriage now, I didnt even respond. As for the refinance, I have transferred $500 to her account EVERY fortnight to help contribute to the contractors and house stuff she had been using some of her settlement for. I am also paying the mortgage, rates and utilities solely out of my paycheck.

I just want to disappear and walk away and cut off all contact and let her see for herself how much she took for granted that I will no longer do. My whole existence for her is based on what I do for her, and nothing else. I feel like she is trying to make me feel ok about her ripping into my entire existence over and over and over and make me feel like I need to change and that I need to respect her behaviour. Im so deep in the rabbit hole I will never get out of this. I am beginning to move past the love I had, that has kept me here. I am beginning to genuinely despise her.

[Cat Familiar]

So you feel like you're fighting a losing battle. She's so sure of her negative perceptions of you that she's unwilling to see things differently. She's a whirlwind of negative energy and interferes with anything you try to do with her nitpicking and criticism. You've been paying your share financially, yet she refuses to acknowledge it. Likewise you've been working hard on projects, but she's been interfering.

You harbor fantasies of leaving the marriage and then she might notice all you've been doing. At this point, the feelings of love you once had for her are turning into contempt.

Where do you see yourself after the birth of the child? What about in five years?

[BurntOutFromBPD]

You harbor fantasies of leaving the marriage and then she might notice all you've been doing. At this point, the feelings of love you once had for her are turning into contempt.

Where do you see yourself after the birth of the child? What about in five years?

I dont actually believe if I leave she would notice what i did and regret things. It would most likely double down on proving herself right the whole time. I love her but yes I have total resentment and contempt for her right now. I dont even care anymore if I can prove I do my share of work or financial contributions. Even if I did it wouldnt make a bit of difference. All my wants and fantasises and hopes of how I want things to be are all fiction.

I dont know where I see myself after the birth of the child. Most likely same place I am in right now. In 5 years I just hope to be alive right now. Anything else that is not complete and total rock bottom is a bonus for me.

[formflier]

She likely would NOT notice for a while.  But it's not because of what she would "see" or "miss".

She would likely have so much emotion because of abandonment stuff (BPDish) that she would focus her blame and anger there.

Said another way... leaving is not a good way to "show her" things.

Leaving is a good way to leave.  Get space.  Don't use it for other things.

I'm going to have to reread that long thing... I kinda got lost in it.

Listen... the details of it don't matter... it's the thrust of the emotion that matters.

   
FF

[BurntOutFromBPD]

Said another way... leaving is not a good way to "show her" things.
Leaving is a good way to leave.  Get space.  Don't use it for other things.
FF

I am not actually planning on leaving or stopping everything just to show her. The urge and fantasy is there sometimes when I'm frustrated over it.

I'm going to have to reread that long thing... I kinda got lost in it.

Listen... the details of it don't matter... it's the thrust of the emotion that matters.

Yes its very long and exhausting. And unfortunately for all the constant criticisms and absolute statements, there is always grains of truth in there that she clings to and hits a nerve with me (because I know some parts are true in a way). But much of it is a complete distorted fantasy of who she is and what she does over our marriage.

The big thing that keeps coming up is resentment over things she has done to make me happy and resents that I am not. When the truth is the constant attacks, criticisms, put downs and controlliong behaviour is what has sent me into a depression and self medication spiral.

[Cat Familiar]

am not actually planning on leaving or stopping And unfortunately for all the constant criticisms and absolute statements, there is always grains of truth in there that she clings to and hits a nerve with me (because I know some parts are true in a way). But much of it is a complete distorted fantasy of who she is and what she does over our marriage.

Can you imagine a time in the future where these attacks no longer hurt you as much?

I had a trigger around being labeled "selfish". My mother used that word to manipulate me all throughout my childhood. And then my first husband discovered how sensitive I was to that word and used it to control me. When my second husband learned that I was sensitive to being called "self absorbed" (a variant of selfish), he frequently used that too.

It wasn't until I thought about how I'd been so afraid of being thought of in this way, that a number of realizations occurred to me. One, what child isn't
"selfish"? It's certainly a part of finding one's identity and learning to have preferences and boundaries--something I didn't learn from my family of origin, which really was a hindrance as an adult.

And two, these people identifying me as selfish or self-centered or self-absorbed were projecting. Typically I was identified thusly when they wanted something from me.

I was able to break the spell with that word. Finally when told that I was some form of self-something, I merely agreed. "Yep. You're right." It was so incredibly freeing and it caught my husband by surprise. How can you paint someone with the negative brush when they're already agreeing with you. And the more I did this, the less frequently it happened, because it no longer worked.

It wasn't that I was admitting to some awful behavior. I was merely admitting to being human. Of course we are all selfish and self-absorbed and self-centered at times. There would be something wrong with us if we didn't take care of our own needs.

I encourage you to free yourself from the negative impact of her words.   

[Red5]

... .And two, these people identifying me as selfish or self-centered or self-absorbed were projecting,

BINGO !

Finally... .when told that I was some form of self-something, I merely agreed. "Yep. You're right."

This is huge!, .once you pull the fuze outa their cannon, then they have nothing... .

It was so incredibly freeing... .and the more I did this, the less frequently it happened, because it no longer worked.

Someone told me when I first came here (FF), ."you must unlearn what you have learned"... .this is a quote from Master Yoda himself !

... .this means; that [some] of the knowledge you may think you know to be true; may indeed not be true after all, and could be blocking your ability to ____,

Cat nails it again !

Red5

[BurntOutFromBPD]

Thank you so much Cat and FF. It gives me hope at least, not that the relationship is going to necessarily work out but that I can free myself from the constant projection. It hasnt just been from my wife, my family did it to me my whole life. My therapist keeps bringing back the feelings I have when being put down or perceived incorrectly or negative assumptions that I get from my wife, was how my parents and family treated me my whole life.

I refuse to be controlled in my life, and allowing people to trigger those dark feelings in myself is how I have been controlled. I so want to break these chains.

[Cat Familiar]

I refuse to be controlled in my life, and allowing people to trigger those dark feelings in myself is how I have been controlled. I so want to break these chains.

   

You and me both, Burnt! It took me a while with therapy and participating here, but I no longer have the stimulus-response link that I once had from being criticized or having negative assumptions made about my motivations, character, intentions, etc.  I still don't like those kinds of comments, but they happen much less frequently.

When they do, I remember the phrase I learned as a kid: "Consider the source."  It didn't mean much until I learned that I was not this horrible human being that people had told me I was. Now I think, "You're in pain and you're trying to dump that pain on me. No thanks." And I can let things slide, for the most part--or I can remove myself so I don't have to participate in the conversation. If I really need to, I can confront the accusation from a place of strength, where I'm not JADEing, but rarely do I feel a need to do that.

It takes time, a bit of practice, and forgiveness of yourself when you don't get it quite right. It's certainly worth the effort. 

[BurntOutFromBPD]

So I had my final session with my therapist. She told me she is 100% convinced I am BPD. She said she believes my wife and I both are. I have been recommended 2 years of DBT, or that I should find someone getting into psychotherapy and be their case study for a year, she thought I would make a classic case study.

I guess I should start posting in the other board now.

[Enabler]

How do you feel about your T's diagnosis given what you have learnt and discussed on the boards here?

Does your knowledge of BPD tie with your own understanding of yourself?

I have made every effort to not lead you in any way shape or form here, I hope I have achieved this... .hence no sympathy, outrage, agreement or disagreement. I'd like to hear your heart and your reasoning.

[formflier]

Perhaps you are... .perhaps you aren't.

I'm very interested in the testing used.

Much better to go to someone that tries to "rule out" (fill in the blank).  PAI... .  MMPI and other tests (assuming you have valid results) can be very important.

I'm not discounting dx by observation and experience.

My history...   I have PTSD.  I went through a fairly extensive process to "rule out" bipolar and other issues.

Turns out I "just" have PTSD... .nothing else going on in there.

Lots of testing... .lots of interviews and T sessions. 

Anyway... .regardless of dx... I hope you move forward making you the best you can be.

FF

[BurntOutFromBPD]

How do you feel about your T's diagnosis given what you have learnt and discussed on the boards here?

Does your knowledge of BPD tie with your own understanding of yourself?

I felt pretty humbled by the diagnosis actually. Previously she thought I just had PTSD, and the associated depression and anxiety and maybe ADD. But now she told me she is 100% convinced I have BPD, that the past trauma and family relationships and the constant need to manage and regulate emotions and the issues with suicidal thoughts, and addictions and the push and pull relationships are what has convinced her.

I am currently reading "I Love You, But I Hate You, But I Need You: How to love unconditionally for someone Living with Borderline Personality Disorder". I am surprised at the diagnosis and at the same time, it seems totally obvious. Like how did I not see that before. But being on the other side, it is easy to not associate all those things with myself as that was not my focus at the time.

I am having a hard time disagreeing with anything I am reading about myself in the book so far and what my Therapist has told me. She also suggested if we are both with BPD it explains a lot why we still have a pull together no matter how long or how much we pull apart.

I would be interested to hear any experiences where both partners are diagnosed with BPD.