My situation is deteriorating. Trying to manage & guide if I can. May not work.

[Red5]

Hello Pearlsw,

I am very late to your thread, but I want you to know that you are in our thoughts and prayers... .I am very sorry that you are having to endure this type of acting out... .its very taxing on you I know, .my first wife used to do these types of behaviors, .she used to take pills, and then disappear, very scary, as our children were little back then, it was overwhelming to me, and I did not know what to do, or how to explain "what is was wrong with mommy" to little ones, age D5, S7, and S11(special needs)... .please know you are not alone.

I understand you are overseas, and limited in your resources... .in my home state, Florida USA, one can have their sig-other "baker acted" when suicide attempts become very aggressive (lack of a better word), .I never did this, but I wish I'd had, .as the third attempt; she (my S2BXW) was very near successful, .that was back in 1997.

I hope things are better for you today, .three days later, .please keep posting, and take care of yourself, we are here listening.

Kind regards, Red5

[pearlsw]

Hi all, 

Thanks for your understanding and support. It is not easy to “liveblog” my at home crises. I think this may be the second time I’ve basically “live blogged” a suicide threat or attempt or expression, whatever you would call this. It is a pretty sobering experience to say the least!

I have little experience with this from previous parts of my life. It is interesting the emotions it brings up!

I appreciate the personal stories here and I think the next time I’m more likely to just call in the authorities and let the chips fall where they may.

I spoke with him about contacting family members if he was in crises, how he felt about that, and he said which ones it is okay with him to contact. I don’t have their contact information, but I may be able to locate it.

There is nothing easy about day to day life overseas!

That's a tough place to be in. I know you don't want to cause him stress, but it is impossible to shield someone from all stresses. I hope that he doesn't hurt himself and if there is another attempt or threat I hope he can get medical help.

Thank you Notwendy. Yes, your idea to call for help next time stuck out for me and I will do this. I can’t carry this burden on my shoulders. I hope it would help and not drive these issues underground. I asked him to let me know if he has such thoughts again. If he does I will call for help. There needs to be more sunlight on this.

Hi Pearl,
I'm so sorry about what you went through. Seeing your husband with the rope around his neck is an image that you'll never forget.

I've dealt with suicide threats from four different people: my mother, my ex-husband, and two friends. Those words shake you to your core.     But even worse, to see the potential means of carrying out that threat.

It's chilling and ultimately it's out of your hands, but you have done what you can and his doctors are aware of his mental state.

My ex-husband repeatedly threatened suicide as a means of controlling me and keeping me on the reservation. He did that with his next girlfriend too. She confessed that he was "holding her hostage with suicide threats".

With your decision deadline coming up in a month, I wouldn't be surprised if this is what your husband is doing, whether he's conscious of it or not.

I hope that you will be able to evaluate the relationship objectively about whether it is fulfilling and brings you joy and improves your life, without being drawn in by a desire to rescue or rehabilitate him.

I understand how hard it is.   

Cat

Oh my goodness Cat! I cannot imagine having experienced this with so many other people! My heart goes out to you!

Yes, I am afraid. I have been leaning against staying together and I am reading up about how in order to think this through carefully and prepare more for that option. I think the option of leaving him holds a lot of potential dangers for me. Some of the time at least. Other times, I know it would be rough, but it could be possible. It is easier to have his cooperation, but if we are getting along too well I don’t know how he will take that. Between his strong emotions and me not really being able to talk with him like I would in a typical break up with someone who does not have mental health issues... .Ay, ay, ay!

I will move this over to Detaching. I was working there a bit yesterday and I think I can work out some of this out there - weighing the options and exploring what breaking up feels like for this kind of relationship.

Hello Pearlsw,

I am very late to your thread, but I want you to know that you are in our thoughts and prayers ... .I am very sorry that you are having to endure this type of acting out ... .its very taxing on you I know, ... .my first wife used to do these types of behaviors, please know you are not alone.

I understand you are overseas, and limited in your resources ... .in my home state, Florida USA, one can have their sig-other "baker acted" when suicide attempts become very aggressive (lack of a better word), ... .I never did this, but I wish I'd had, ... .as the third attempt; she (my S2BXW) was very near successful, ... .that was back in 1997.

I hope things are better for you today, ... .three days later, ... .please keep posting, and take care of yourself, we are here listening.

Kind regards, Red5

Hi Red,   Thanks very much for your support and encouragement and checking in on me. I am grateful for that. It is important for me to not feel alone in this!

I am sorry for what happened with your ex, but grateful you are sharing it. It means a lot to have the chance to talk to others who have faced these struggles! You are so kind!   

sincerely, pearl.

[Notwendy]

I have dealt with them too, from my BPD mother. She had one attempt when I was very young and we kids were sent to stay with a relative for a while. I don't recall this one well. As a teen, she used some attention getting attempts- real or not, I don't know. She once came after me with a plastic bag over her head- I knew she wanted me to see it. That's a lot for a 13-14 year old to manage. My sibling once found her where she hurt herself- we don't know if it was accidental or deliberate.

I can not imagine the terror my father felt and know this is why he was so adamant we kids didn't upset her.

She hasn't )thank goodness) made threats recently but we did fear them.  Since we don't live near her, we know that we will call 911, neighbors and family near her if we had to. She knows that too. Suicide threats need to be handled by professionals- none of us are as well trained to help as they are.

I hope you can arrive at a place of peace with yourself no matter what you decide about the relationship. It would be easier if you had his cooperation, but I think often in these cases, that isn't possible. I do agree that the most dangerous time to leave a disordered person is when one does leave, which is why a safety plan is essential. Whatever you do decide, I know you will take care to keep yourself and him as safe as you possibly can.

[Cat Familiar]

We love you, Pearl, and we wish you strength, calm wisdom, steely determination—all qualities you have in abundance.     

[Mellon Collie]

Dear Pearl,
I went through your thread and, wow, it must have been a hard hard week.
The suicide threat must have been a huge thing, I've been there only once, recently, and it shook me for days.
And it made me question the same things, but what I realized is that if someone decides to hurt themselves there is not much we can do, even if we love them more than we love ourselves; and so my conclusion was that it was just another way to try to control me or keep me attached.
You've been brave in managing the situation the way you did, I would've been scared, and still I am, but what I know is that living in fear of something is not living.

You're strong and patient and I'm sure you'll manage everything in the best possible way.

A big hug,
MC

[pearlsw]

We love you, Pearl, and we wish you strength, calm wisdom, steely determination—all qualities you have in abundance.     

hi Cat,

  awww you make me blush!  

made it through another day. it's a bit of a rolling crisis. but hoping we can get him some help soon. we have an appointment with a counselor next week but i want to steer it towards him stabilizing his emotions and these suicidal thoughts. he wants to "save the relationship", when he is not trying to end it.

nothing else is possible until we can get him more stabilized. i'm just not sure what that looks like at this point. poor guy!

warmly, pearl.

[pearlsw]

I went through your thread and, wow, it must have been a hard hard week.

Hi MC,

Thanks so much for your kindness and here's a big  for you too!

Yes, these issues around suicide are a real mind bender. He is on anti-depressants, but is also drinking daily while on them. Usually only 2 beers, but some days 4. Not a good combo for him I think, though he is more relaxed and friendly when he drinks.

I agree with you! I accept this may happen, and it will be an unbelievable tragedy if it does. I don't want to be held hostage by it either though. Not sure how to thread that needle. I think these are his genuine feelings, though the result can feel manipulative, but that is just how I'm reading these last months. He seems to be having a serious breakdown.

I am still amazed he manages to hold a job. Man, I am amazed he got another job after a layoff at the start of the year when I look back. It's been years of struggle and misery. I wish there was a way to take all his pain away. It is a lot to see him suffer... .and not have enough resources to intervene in this.

with gratitude, pearl.

[empath]

Hi Pearl,

Gosh, you've got so much going on. I'm sorry to hear about the crisis and everything that goes with it - on top of living in a foreign country without many resources. That sounds really frightening.    I have several friends who have lived in foreign countries.

Like many of the others, my h has felt suicidal at times. The most recent time was about 5 months ago. After he told me that he was going to be moving out and filing for divorce and before he actually moved out, he said that he was feeling like he was going to hurt himself or me or our daughter. He perked up when he was talking about divorce; that was his plan instead. He also had signs of his self-harming which I wasn't going to mention in his state of mind. He moved out to a friend's house (the friend was encouraging the divorce) and met with a lawyer. I contacted the friend and told him that h was having a mental health crisis and should be encouraged to see a counselor. H found out that lawyer assisted divorces are expensive (can't do that impulsively) and take a while - so he decided against that. I was able to communicate with him through email without triggering him and cleared up some misunderstanding that h had and encouraged counseling for him.

He moved out of his friend's house because his friend was 'controlling' and into an apartment. He went to counseling for a couple of months, until he "felt better". Thankfully, I had several friends of my own who knew what was happening and thought it was dangerous. I also knew if he was still communicating with me and being truthful about his feelings, they would eventually swing back. It was a tense time, though.

My h is on antidepressants, too. I'm not so sure that they have helped the situation because this was the worst dysregulation I've seen in nearly 30 years.

Peace to you.

[pearlsw]

Hi Pearl,

Gosh, you've got so much going on. I'm sorry to hear about the crisis and everything that goes with it - on top of living in a foreign country without many resources. That sounds really frightening.    I have several friends who have lived in foreign countries.

My h is on antidepressants, too. I'm not so sure that they have helped the situation because this was the worst dysregulation I've seen in nearly 30 years.

Peace to you.

Hi empath,  

Thank you for your insights! I'm interested in how you mention that despite anti-depressants it was the worse dysregulation.

In a lot of way his anti-depressants help, but they (as expected) only help with part of things. But yes, this last incident was one of the worst and I've gotten a lot of "for worse" in our years together.

I have found some international assistance now - though I am nervous because he tracks all the phone calls I receive, but I decided to go ahead with it anyway - get this extra help I mean.

I've stood up to him before, and will again and again, that I have a right to talk to whomever I want and not disclose it to him. He has his own cell phone and can do as he pleases without any monitoring, I can't.

We will see a counselor next week (unless he cancels), and a divorce mediator in September (unless he cancels) and see what the next steps are. It is hard because he will say he wants to save things, and then flip, and then flip back, and then flip, on and on. He is aware this is a reason that I will not endlessly tolerate. It is already very far gone on this particular issue. I am just trying to honor a deadline we set to either continue the relationship or not. Even if we did "continue" past this deadline, it would not be a lifetime commitment past this time, just more time for him to get well enough to see if anything at all is possible.

It's hard. It's hard. My lifetime of experience says you give all you can to make something work. My experience also says abuse crosses a red line and can't be tolerated. We both stand to lose a lot by breaking up, but we can't go on like things are either. The last thing I needed was another personal tragedy and another mountain to climb, but that is what it is coming to!

thank you so much for your kindness, pearl.

[empath]

I'm interested in how you mention that despite anti-depressants it was the worse dysregulation.

For my h, the anti-depressant has increased his anxiety - now he has panic attacks and many "aches and pains" that coincide with his stress levels being high. He went through a period in his work life that was stressful because he was being placed in situations that reminded him of his personal life - and said that he was in so much pain that he couldn't work. I think the anti-depressant allowed him to stay for much longer than he would have otherwise, usually he would have quit the job before he became physically sick. That was after about a year on the anti-depressant.

Then most recently, he had more reminders of personal life from his church life. He stayed and was processing it - until there was a church crisis, and he quit in the middle of the crisis and also decided that he wanted a divorce from me. (first time that has happened and to him seemed like a more preferable option to hurting himself or me) He was also trying to calm himself by self-injury, but I guess that wasn't working either.

Of course, my h says his problem is depression... .  But deeper, he's afraid that there is something more serious... .The other issue is that he wasn't being fully honest with his previous counselor, and now he says she wasn't very helpful.

[Cat Familiar]

pearl and empath,
If you research the particular antidepressants your husbands are taking, you might discover that many are linked to an increase in suicidal ideation. Apparently some of the newer antidepressants are less likely to trigger SI.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3353604/

[pearlsw]

pearl and empath,
If you research the particular antidepressants your husbands are taking, you might discover that many are linked to an increase in suicidal ideation. Apparently some of the newer antidepressants are less likely to trigger SI.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3353604/

Wow, Cat! Thanks for looking out of us and sharing that info. I think he's on Lexapro... .gotta figure that out again!

p.s. and he drinks everyday, that can't be a good combo. yikes!
p.s.s. i've always wondered if he was undiagnosed bipolar.

with gratitude, pearl.

[Cat Familiar]

Yikes indeed.  https://www.healthline.com/health/depression/lexapro-and-alcohol

A few years ago my husband was combining pain meds and alcohol and the occasional muscle relaxer and sleeping pills at night. It was as though there was a thick barrier of brain fog between us. It certainly exacerbated the BPD symptoms, and since I didn't know what I know now, I know that my response added to that mix.

Now he's been doing Neurofeedback after seeing how much it improved my brain functioning after my concussion. And one of the things we've learned is how pharmaceuticals can have such a deleterious effect on suppression of brainwaves. I've not used them, but I've had plenty of conversations with the Neurofeedback practitioner about how even moderate use of benzodiazepines in particular can have damaging effects on brain functioning. And when people mix and match a variety of chemical compounds, it makes it more difficult for her to "clean up" their brain functioning.

Every week my husband gets to see a "brain map" and graphic representation of how well his different brainwaves are functioning, so I think that's been good motivation for him only to use alcohol. It's not great to overuse intoxicants, but the body does know how to process alcohol out of the system, as compared to pharmaceuticals, which leave a residue.

That said, of course lots of people absolutely need modern pharma and wouldn't be functional otherwise. However, people treat these drugs all too casually and don't realize how powerful they are.

[I Am Redeemed]

Wow, Cat! Thanks for looking out of us and sharing that info. I think he's on Lexapro... .gotta figure that out again!

p.s. and he drinks everyday, that can't be a good combo. yikes!
p.s.s. i've always wondered if he was undiagnosed bipolar.

with gratitude, pearl.

Hi pearl,

I took Lexapro for a while, alone and also in combination with Neurontin, which is not a psych med primarily but is used as a mood stabilizer sometimes. I also have tried Paxil, Zoloft, Celexa and Wellbutrin. The SSRI"S alone did not help me level out to a point where I could effectively practice the tools I learned in therapy (i.e. though-stopping, etc.). The Wellbutrin made me even more depressed than before, to the point that I laid on the couch and did not want to move and also had anxiety attacks. Suicidal thoughts were not present before wellbutrin, but were after I started taking it, until I told my doctor and was sent to a mental health crisis center.

The antidepressant that worked best for me so far (because I have not tried all of them of course) was Effexor. This drug works on two chemicals in the brain, seratonin and noripinephrine. I needed that extra boost in my brain chemistry.
Antidepressants are not meant to completely take all the symptoms of sadness away, they simply are meant to restore the brain chemistry to a normal state so that tools learned in therapy can be used to manage one's life. I was told by my practicioner that my depression was largely situational (related to being separated from my children and also the stress of my h's psychotic breakdowns).

Alcohol and other mood-altering substances interfere with the production of seratonin in the brain. This is why many times recovering addicts and alcoholics are prescribed antidepressants to restore the seratonin levels that have been depleted by substance use. Combining alcohol or other drugs with SSRI or other antidepressants is counterproductive in that it basically cancels out what the medication is trying to do. It's like trying to fill a swimming pool with a hose while someone is draining it from a hole in the other side.

I hope you can help your h find the right combination of medication and treatment, and I know it's important to you that he receive help because he is suffering. Just remember that sometimes a mentally ill person is not capable of cooperating with his own best interests, and if that ends up being the case with you, it does not reflect a lack of character or commitment on your part if you come to the end of your power to change the situation.

Praying for you pearl,

Redeemed

[empath]

My h is on Wellbutrin. I've told him that I was concerned about the effects that it was having on him, like the panic and anxiety that have increased as well as the "pain" that he has on a regular basis now. Those weren't present before he started taking the med. Of course, he dismissed my concerns. He was without it for about 3 months, and a couple of months in, we started making progress in our relationship again. Then, he started the meds again. Oh, he also developed high blood pressure after the Wellbutrin.

[BeagleGirl]

Pearl,
I just now got caught up on all that you’ve gone through in the last week. How are you feeling today?
BG

[desperate.wife]

Oh pearl, so sorry to hear all you are going through. I was away for a while; just now, I am catching up with the boards.

I understand how you feel about your husband. We can’t assume it is only manipulation. We live with them and know how they are when they are ok. And we see the pain they are in. Mine too, wants to do it so he wouldn’t cause pain and trouble for us, he even counted how much money we would get…They suffer. I hope yours will go through with therapy. I am impressed with all that you have done to seek for help.

I also get it how lonely it can be in foreigner country and how you lose old friends over distance. It is frustrating to explain yourself. Especially when we are emotionally tired. It is good to share with people that goes through the same. You are expressing yourself so well. It is also good to see your own situation from different perspectives, even if we don’t like them. But you know all that 

Hug,
DW