Our anniversary now passed - What to do with the silent treatment? Part three

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

This is a continuation of my previous threads regarding the ST (silent treatment) my spouse has started June 24th. Since that date our anniversary came and I spent it alone, doing things to take care of myself. I am now not counting the days at this point and on purpose.

So far things have been getting more complicated because my spouse did not deposit money in my account for the rent due at the beginning of this month. I have communicated with her several times within the course of the last month, and received no response. There are still a few days left before I get a notice of eviction. Because of this turn of events, I expect some form of communication will happen. She may still deposit the needed amount in my account before that date. Hopefully she will.

If not, this will mean she abrogates on our agreement that she was going to support me until I find work in the city. Personally this puts me in a situation of hardship. I came here with nothing but two suitcases and four boxes to join her in her country, got married, and am now on a temporary immigrant status in her country, based on the marriage. Still dependent on her financially.

Here you can read more regarding the current situation.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=326809.0;all  (part 1)
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327602.60;all  (part 2)

I welcome any wise comments, suggestions and support while I walk through this difficult patch.

Brave

[braveSun]

This is a continuation of my previous threads regarding the ST (silent treatment) my spouse has started June 24th. Since that date our anniversary came and I spent it alone, doing things to take care of myself. I am now not counting the days at this point and on purpose.

So far things have been getting more complicated because my spouse did not deposit money in my account for the rent due at the beginning of this month. I have communicated with her several times within the course of the last month, and received no response. There are still a few days left before I get a notice of eviction. Because of this turn of events, I expect some form of communication will happen. She may still deposit the needed amount in my account before that date. Hopefully she will.

If not, this will mean she abrogates on our agreement that she was going to support me until I find work in the city. Personally this puts me in a situation of hardship. I came here with nothing but two suitcases and four boxes to join her in her country, got married, and am now on a temporary immigrant status in her country, based on the marriage. Still dependent on her financially.

Here you can read more regarding the current situation.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=326809.0;all  (part 1)
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327602.60;all  (part 2)

I welcome any wise comments, suggestions and support while I walk through this difficult patch.

Brave

[Notwendy]

As you could guess from my own background - I would be distressed by this and I imagine you are too. 

What are the terms of your lease and whose name is on it ? If it’s month to month then you could move with no obligations but if it’s not - someone could be liable for the rest of the rent - and that’s whose name is on it.

Beyond the rent- this long of an ST would cause me to wonder if there is a relationship at all. This part is your boundaries - how much to accept no communication before you decide this isn’t working. I know we don’t post run messages and this isn’t one. It’s more asking if there’s anything to run from or stay with.

[braveSun]

Thank you Notwendy. Anything to stay with, well, I still have my good memories of the long, health(ier) enough relationship we've been having for all those years. At this later stage in our lives, it's kind of harder to think we would not have each other in each other's lives anymore. If we're at the end of the road and we can't, than we can't. But if we could both learn something from this experience and make some sensible changes at this point, it would make a lot of sense. Some dream of my part that she will learn from her  feelings and experience with this, on some of her false beliefs. On how to manage better her hard emotions. Maybe she'll consider having a coach for some communication skills. Probably one of her friends is already helping.

I've been working on some creative vision about what regrouping into a healthi(er) place might be like for us, if she comes through. How it would look like, how things would unfold. Some broad lines of what I would want to change for us (in the relationship) if she'd reconnect before eviction date, or if a new roommate comes through.

The rent is in both our names. The lease is one year, due for renewal Nov 1st. My original plan was to secure a long term roommate for a year. I found out that there are lots of people looking for short term roommate situations throughout the year, but now is an important time of the year when nearby university arrivals come in. Both May and August are good months for students.

The apartment costs are however more than most students are willing to pay for. I don't get any massive number of applications, but some interesting people come to visit. I used to be quite successful finding roommates where I lived in the past but the demand patterns were quite different. Maybe I needed to learn about the different rhythms of the market in this city. So far I've been able to find two shorter terms, like for 3 months at a time. There is another one coming to visit this week for a 3 months term. That could help finish the lease.

As I see it's more difficult to attract people long term outside of student housing market. But it's also possible to juggle that and look at it as times for us to be together in the city, in between roommates, having to pay full months' rent maybe 2 or 3 months of the year only. She could put the money in our joint savings and make sure there is always enough for a full month's expenses, separate from the monthly support she would give me until I earn enough, living with a roommate. Or if she would accept to cover for the difference between what a student would want to pay and what my half would be.

She will have to commit to some sort of reasonable plan, though. So that I don't end up in survival fear again. Support money would have to be planned and streamlined.  Like auto-deposit and communicating over email if I need less, so the auto-deposit doesn't need to be as high once I have a PT job, than stops once I have a proper job.

Ultimately I also want a car. That would normalize things between us too.

Yes, wondering if there is a relationship at all is a part of the thoughts rolling in my mind. I feel like I'm going through such rollercoaster with this. It's a type of raging on her part, I know. But it's also very much a new experience for both of us, to have to discover and deal with our respective 'imperfections'.

I am also trying to not let my triggers take over for now. Reading some of Pete Walkers' work and learning a bit more about the inner and outer critiques. What I didn't know about my condition and possibly trauma from her side as well. Learning in a more systematic way.

Anything to run from would be the feelings of powerlessness that ST brings along. I would have to put a boundary for that. Like I can accept to be doing my own thing and she doing hers and we go NC for a few weeks if it is something one of us needs at times to sort ourselves up. But we communicate that, and for a fixed period of time (ex. 2 weeks). Like I can commit to practice forgiveness to myself for my unskilled behavior in response to her rages and accusations. I can commit to radical acceptance if she can commit to at least make improvements in her emotion management. I have learned to put boundaries and it seems that she has been more aware of herself over time, but has been naturally very upset at the whole situation (extinction bursts?). I would have to commit myself more fully to practicing the tools I learned here. And see if she might be interested in trying to apply some changes from her side. But not accepting ST and rages again. And not accepting being living alone here while this relationship is going nowhere.

I figured these thoughts being exploratory for now, there is nothing to lose doing this while waiting for something to unblock. The learning will still serve me in the future no matter what will happen with the relationship.

[formflier]

I'm so sorry this is happening to you.

I'm a landlord.  What is your relationship like with your landlord?

I wish I had better ideas to offer you about ST... .I personally don't have much experience with it.

At the moment... you have a relationship in name only.  Functionally... you have no relationship.  I'm so sorry.      (not a run message... but what can be seen in "plain view"

So... some ideas... please don't take any of this as "direction".

Is it worthwhile to have a welfare check done on your spouse?

Either authorities or someone you trust verify she is in good health.

I'm debating have you send her a letter she has to sign for... .or go see her in person.

I tend to lean towards going in person, but what does that look like?

Let me  sleep on this... hopefully I will have some better ideas.

FF

[braveSun]

Thanks FF for the hugs!...  

I don't know the landlords. The building is managed by a real estate company. I don't know them well but I don't expect much leeway in this.

I can ask a tenant again about her health. She has tenants living on the property at her house. I am considering going to see her in person.
 
I was not feeling ready to do this today. Gathering myself.

There is still a window of time in the next two days for at least this month's rent to be resolved. If not, I'll have to be more proactive. But I need to prepare. To have my own clarity about what I want and my limits.

[Notwendy]

If you got an eviction notice, would you still be liable for rent until November?

I don't know the laws in your country, but in the US, in general, whoever signs the lease is liable for the entire amount, if one of the lease signers bails - the remaining ones are left with the rent.

In the US, if you were to leave the apartment, she'd be liable for the rent.

Assuming you have no rent, and have to leave the premises, what is the consequences to her as someone with her name on the lease in the country you are at?

I am not a landlord, but I would think the landlord would pursue payment through the end of the lease.

[formflier]

If you got an eviction notice, would you still be liable for rent until November?
 

Yes... .

Very general explanation.  A tenant is liable for rent until the landlord start collecting again.  So... .landlord "gains possession" of the property and leases it again.  Once the landlord starts collecting rent again... his "damages" are over and old tenants are off the hook.

Usually... most courts handle possession and damages separately (I wish they wouldn't... .)

So... I go to court to "get my property back"... .then have to go back later and get damages.  Then... I have to "collect" damages (which is not an easy task... rarely actually happens)

Said another way... I'm not aware of courts that allow a landlord to "double dip" (get damages and new rent for the same period of time)

Damages would be expenses to advertise again, repaint/repair... and of course and time it sits empty not producing income.

There could be additional damages listed in the lease... such as early termination fees...


I wish I had better advice for you on ST.  Just not something I've faced much.

Notwendy... .are you aware of people on here that have successfully "overcome" ST and gone on to a better relationship?

At the moment, I'm a fan of checking with tenant (if you think this will be private) and then going to see her in person. 

You will need to prepare for this conversation.

Last thought:  Reach out to leasing company... .even though it is bad news, they will appreciate proactive communication.   Be honest... .my wife pays the bills and I'm not able to contact her... .worried about her health... .will let you know ASAP. 

FF

[Notwendy]

Yes, FF - I have dealt with it myself in my relationship.

The concern isn't just with the ST- I think that is a frequent issue. This seems like a double one- ST while also leaving your spouse without the rent. My H would use the ST but he wouldn't leave us without food or shelter. The ST can be a form of withdrawal, pouting, or verbal abuse or stonewalling, but the person may still have boundaries with that and not include actions that cause physical harm.

I also think a relationship can recover from many things, including this one, but the situation is that shelter is needed urgently. It's tough to be working on a relationship when the immediate concern is basic needs. I'm not suggesting leaving the relationship, but it may come down to leaving the apartment if rent isn't paid.

I agree that a face to face discussion is needed before taking other actions, but if that isn't possible and there is no rent, there needs to be some action taken to where to live.

Personally, I would be questioning what is going on with my relationship after no communication after this long. This isn't deciding to stay or leave- but I would wonder if the other person has decided and if so, I would want to know.

[braveSun]

At the moment... you have a relationship in name only.  Functionally... you have no relationship.  I'm so sorry.      (not a run message... but what can be seen in "plain view"

It looks like that all right!...    

I'd say it's more like a relationship shut down than a no relationship. Going incommunicado is sort of a wild card, but she's at home at her own house, not exactly running away. And we're still married, with common obligations. If I did, run away, betcha she'll have that one to add against me later, when the time to actionate our decision s comes.

It's definitely a way to apply pressures, even though it's unfair. 

I am thinking about all of this in a more concrete way, thanks to your inputs, FF and Notwendy. I was leaning into the idea of trying to talk in person at some point. To not react and play into the war of nerves.

Than if I have to go through such nonsense situation as an eviction, personally, I would see my way out with whatever my options would be than. Probably not many.

I've considered trying to sublet the apt for the last months, or to offer to do that. But I will not want to go live with her at her house with the friend who is currently living with her PT.  I had to leave last year when the friend moved in and I was not consulted. There is a long story there. 

Once the friend got installed on the property, our dynamic changed and my spouse became much more dogmatic, like emotionally unreacheable. A few paranoid episodes towards me ensued. I could go on with examples on how the presence of this friend has affected negatively our relationship.

I had to leave at some point because this was getting too much for me. Because of that time I left, I do have a bit of an understanding for my spouse wanting to grab space. Now that I see BPD/NDP traits, I can see the ST is a common way to cope, and I can see how she could come to such place as to need that.

When I left it was mainly because I had no support around there. I left for about a month. Was NC for about a week, then exchanged texts with her to let her know I was safe. We tried to meet and talk on neutral grounds a couple of times within the month. My spouse wanted to find solutions, but from my point of view it all looked like she was scared of having me living with her. I believe it has to do with the drug usage. I had told her I was not liking her drug habit.

Backstory: At the onset of my living there I didn't think of my spouse as having BPD nor NDP traits. I was relating to her like a non does, and learned the hard way that my needs were not as important to her as I'd normally expect in a loving relationship. I have to say I didn't shy away to state my opinions on her drugs usage, and at some point got confrontational about the drugs + the ways I was treated. To be honest, I didn't have much understanding of the situation I was coming into when I came in. It got scary when the friend moved in in particular. Because they both were becoming unfriendly to me, I thought it was because they felt exposed. Their drug usage was being questioned. At that time I tried to access AL-Anon meetings, and my spouse did cut my access to using her car. No public transportation there.

When after a month I came back we talked a bit, and eventually we both decided that 'I was' better off living in the city. The decision was mutual. And our hope for the relationship came back as we found this great apartment and rented it together.

The plans were good, but the particulars were not easy to fulfill.

I think that the polarization of my spouse's views on our relationship has to do with the friend's enabling her to polarize the issues. It appears now that the friend is still interfering between us, but now in an indirect way.

So for me to consider going to live back there, the issue will come forward. I am not wanting to go live with her friend being living there.

The last time I was visiting her:  We were planning to go together to my spouse's show. The night before, the friend would show up in the kitchen unannounced and do her business while we were having our dinner together at the kitchen table. She is simply invading our privacy without a second thought.

She also has tried to force herself in the bedroom twice while we were having private conversations in the past. Those behaviors are just some part of what I can report. There is more.

I have never raised a hand to my spouse in any of our arguments. I am the type who will rather walk out for a time out in my natural state of mind. But when the friend tried to interfere this way, tensions went through the roof between my spouse and I. This is unhealthy.

We have difficulty basically reconnecting on a sound base with each other because there seems to be that friend's opinions floating around. She is very loud spoken about her opinions, and had very rigid opinions on how people/relationships should be. She has divorced three times in her life and I can see how her rigid thinking could have influence with my spouse's (unfounded) paranoid thinking. Not my kind of relationship expert.

Just some thoughts ahead of a possible in-person conversation.

[formflier]

I would caution you to "hang too much of this on the friend."

Whose responsibility is it that the friend is there?

Whose responsibility is it to consider the advice that they receive. 

The last thing you want is to wind up in a triangle trying to control "the friend" in order to influence your wife.

Stay direct with the wife.  Period. 

Let's say you are having a private conversation and the friend appears.  State you need for privacy... .unapologetically.  (I don't want to get too far off track here)


Listen... .there is some benefit to figuring out the "why".  It is much more important for you to take measured action to change your circumstance.

Apparently your spouse has decided not to support you, knowing that you have no other viable options, and with an agreement to support in place. 

So... .your next step is to remove the "apparently".  Make sure spouse is healthy and going about her daily business. 

If you think the person you can reach out to will be private about it... .(not tell)... then reach out. 

Otherwise my guess is you need to go in person.

If you find out that your spouse is ill or unable to provide support for a "legitimate" reason... then you need to cross that bridge when you get there.

Again... very sorry about this. It is devolving into getting basic human needs met.  Keep focus there.

FF

[braveSun]

I would caution you to "hang too much of this on the friend."

Whose responsibility is it that the friend is there?

Whose responsibility is it to consider the advice that they receive. 

The last thing you want is to wind up in a triangle trying to control "the friend" in order to influence your wife.

Stay direct with the wife.  Period. 

Let's say you are having a private conversation and the friend appears.  State you need for privacy... .unapologetically.  (I don't want to get too far off track here)

I get it. Thanks. It's easy to get carried away with all the nerve racking stuff.

So far I have not brought this friend thing issue forward. I prefer to live in the city. I am looking into this because the survival/basic needs might be used for her to require that I move back in with both of them. Not going to happen.

Than things will have to take another course.

I have to prepare to meet the potential issue.

I kind of like the idea of simply asking the friend for privacy if/when she comes around while I'm having a visit.

I could benefit from the why my spouse prefers keeping the friend around.

It won't change my own boundary there.
No mingling into my marriage from friends we don't invite both.

That's a non-negociable.

Having the opportunity to verbalize this feels good.

I do believe that there will be issues around that a bit, than we will need to move past that if we come to an agreement about say, her 'legitimate reasons' for stopping the support.

While I might not want to go into discussing the things I see my spouse could accept to do, at least temporarily in a face-to-face conversation, I have to bring this up for myself here. My spouse has two apartments on the property she uses for visits and bnb. She has that option to rent at least one of the apartments and reduce her own utility bills while making a bit more income if she wants to. Even as a temporary arrangement, this could work for us because it would allow more stable extra sources of income for her while I work at getting my footing in the city.

I know it's not all that simple. I get it. But I want to bring this up here on the thread because I do have this nagging feeling that she might be coming up with something like 'I can't afford to support you any longer'.

I could even go on suggesting    that maybe the friend could now start to pay her rent, since now it's going to be a year that she moved in on the property. 

But I won't.

It's just not worth the move.

[Notwendy]

There is a lot to be worked out as far as the relationship goes. First there has to be some communication.

If you consider Maskow’s hierarchy of needs - the relationship is part of that but the base is survival needs- food, shelter. These are the most urgent.

The relationship is important but that will take time to work on. What is imminent is that both of your names are on the lease and so your wife is also liable for the rent. This isn’t only your problem- it’s hers too. If she has assets then the landlord may have the right to pursue them. I don’t know the laws in your country but in the US you can’t just bail on a lease.

So a contact - “Honey, I love you and we have a dilemma. Both our names are on this lease and the rent has not been paid. I am here to discuse this with you. I also want to discuss our relationship as I care about it but what is urgent now is this legal obligation that we need to work out”

[formflier]

If she owns real estate... .and has assets, which it seems she does, then the landlord will eventually get a judgment and collect the rent.  Long after the eviction.

In your case, you will get bad credit... .but they can't make you pay what you don't have.


On to the relationship.

Just to clarify.  A year ago, your wife moved in a friend, rent free, into the marital home. 

Did she ask?

Did you object or clarify?

And then eventually you moved out and the friend stayed in the marital home.

And... while the friend was there she was very intrusive into the marital privacy... and your wife was ok with this... .and at the time you DID NOT object. 

Do I have this right?

FF

[braveSun]

This is a bit complicated. The friend has been in her life as long as I have. I think. And she has been there for her in times of great needs. (So I have, by the way.) While I could not be in my spouse's country after the disaster, her friend was there for her. For a long time she used to come to the property regularly, like on her weekends. She likes the natural environment of my spouse's house. She used to cook for her. And they smoked marijuana together. She also has been having difficulties finding meaningful work for herself. For some years I was not there, but I heard stories at times about how the friend's current job at the time was unsatisfactory, she didn't make enough for her needs, etc...

Fast forward to when I came to join my spouse, it came naturally that I was going to stay in the room her friend had stayed in for many years. This the friend didn't like. Because somehow it was understood that this room was 'her place' at my spouse's house. We had discussed that briefly my spouse and I, and it felt best that I take that room, instead of occupying one of the apartments, so she could still generate some income from the apartments.

Eventually a job opened into the friend's field near the property and she decided to apply for that job. She got the job. But driving back and forth to her own house 4 times/week was too far for her. So they both convened that the friend would move onto the property in one of the apartments PT.

I was not consulted for this. And I was upset. However I did accept it because I do have respect for how much the friendship meant for my spouse. And frankly she had been there in those times where it was meaningful. Now it felt like it meant my spouse was returning the favor. Because the friend liked that new job opportunity very much.

We did have a clarification conversation my spouse and I, yes.

The marital home is 100% owned by my spouse. So I did not have much of a choice in terms of say legal rights to object. However, I did ask that the friend/my spouse would respect my boundaries.

No smoking on the property was a rule that was already established before I came in, but the friend was one of a few people who excused themselves from the rules. I had to bring up my concerns about the smoking when the friend moved/stayed into the apartment directly under me. Those were not welcomed. That and some other issues started to ball up. I had to leave at some point because I didn't feel at home at my spouse's property. There is a lot to say there, but I'll keep concise.

Once I came back to the property after a month of absence, both my spouse and I convened that it was best for me to move to another place. I looked for a room first in the city, and when my spouse and I were ready to visit places, we convened that it was best to rent an apartment, and I would find a roommate to offset the expenses.

Yes, the friend's behavior has been intrusive into some of our private conversations when she was there. And I overheard some conversations between them where the friend was saying things about me, or about the visit my spouse had with me at the apartment, comments/requests it was shocking to hear (for me). Other times she would sit on the porch outside my window and speak out loud negative comments about me.

The rent free part I did not discuss that, nor I am privy of their arrangements. It's only my jab. I don't know. But at some point, a few months before the friend got the job and moved in, my spouse did have a comment to me about how much it did cost her to have the room I occupied unavailable for the bnb. Later she was talking about utilities being so high. I tried to help with certain things, but the idea was introduced that if I did get a job, I could pay for utility bills. We had already agreed on me working to develop my project in my field, working from home. When the friend got her job and moved in, communication from my spouse to me kind of changed tone. Around that time she became much more confident in her accusations, even directive towards me.

Yes, she seems to have welcomed that. I did notice that at the onset of the friend coming in to have the job interviews, my spouse kind of felt a bit conflicted about it. I saw that she didn't want to say no but was conflicted about the idea of it.

I did object to all intrusions, totally. Some of the comments about me or the apartment were not spoken to me, so I did not comment back on them. It did hurt a lot for sure.

[formflier]

Focus on immediate needs first.

Understand that you and your wife have clarified everyone's place in the marriage and friendships... .and have "ranked" those.

That's going to be hard to undo.

It's also going to be hard to have an intimate relationship with your wife with someone living in the marital home that makes regular negative comments about you and your wife does nothing to "defend" you.

Again... .your wife has "ranked" the relationships... and "ranked" the friendship.  I'm sorry... so sorry to point this out.

Yes there is some nuance about why these things happen... jobs, weed, etc etc... but I don't see the nuance altering the basic value choices.

FF

[braveSun]

Understand that you and your wife have clarified everyone's place in the marriage and friendships... .and have "ranked" those.

Hey FF. Thank you for your insights. I see you getting into possibly my spouse's mindset there, and I can see how you would see that.  

My code of values is: There is no pecking order in a bona fide marriage between the two partners. Both people decide.

Basic value choices are within the range of, you get in a relationship, in a committed relationship, married, you're responsible on how you treat your partner. Even if you get divorced you are responsible on how you treat the person you are divorcing.

There is no altering views on that. Line in the sand.

On the other hand, I was describing the situation regarding my values of respecting my spouse's friendship and what it meant to her to be able to help her. I hold both values.

I didn't know what I was getting into obviously.

Drugs being at play is in my book more than a nuance, more like a lens. Especially with the paranoid episodes involved. But it could be different in other people's experiences. For me it's more all about how I don't 'recognize' the beloved person I remember knowing. She has changed.

That doesn't get us off the hook of the marriage, and our obligations. I don't think so. I could be wrong for my spouse.

No, I didn't agree to any of that idea of establishing a ranking order between our marriage and my spouse's other relationships. pwBPD/NPD I understand have boundary issues.

I know you are trying to help. Maybe I didn't understand your point and would benefit from more unwrapping of your thoughts.

Valuing your insights.

Brave

[formflier]

Yep... .we look at this very differently... apparently.  I'm not alleging I'm "right".  I do allege that you would benefit from looking at the relationship from different angles, especially angles that are uncomfortable.

"Facing the facts"... .


"Facts" can be changed going forward.

And please don't confuse this with putting first things first.  You have immediate needs.


My purpose is bringing forth an alternative point of view is there seems to be a big part of "letting your wife off the hook" with various explanations and nuance.

Keep things in order.

Lets slowly examine things from other (more uncomfortable angles).  Perhaps it helps... perhaps it doesn't... .and perhaps there are parts to the story I have missed (very likely).

The "family" or "marital" home.  I get it she owns it.  Do you have a prenuptial  that keeps it "out" of marital assets?

A quick FF story.  There is a home that my wife and I both own.  My wife decided she was going to "save" a child and that was her "ministry".  Therefore... since it's her ministry her husband gets no say in it... (perhaps God is more important)... .she can adopt a child and move him into the family home... .and there was nothing I could do about it.

I publicly took the child home the next day.  Many people likely believed I was an insensitive a$$hole... and said so at the time and later.  That I didn't care for the child... etc etc.

I did care for the child.

I "ranked" and cared for my marriage and my values more.

Do you get the context of "ranking" and values?

The most concerning thing to me is in both cases... .mine and yours... .one part of the marriage was going to "impose" a living situation on their spouse.

That's very different than "my mother is going to visit for a week".  Yes... that's an imposition... but it's a week.

You are out for a year... friend is still there. 

Those are "facts on the ground" that represent value choices.

   

I realize this will take a while to digest.  In the meantime... .focus on immediate needs.

Can we decide to have a contact plan in 2 days?  Then... do that plan shortly after?

FF

[braveSun]

   The "family" or "marital" home.  I get it she owns it.  Do you have a prenuptial  that keeps it "out" of marital assets?

Yes, she owns it and yes, there is a prenuptial agreement that keeps it out.

   I "ranked" and cared for my marriage and my values more.

Do you get the context of "ranking" and values?

The most concerning thing to me is in both cases... .mine and yours... .one part of the marriage was going to "impose" a living situation on their spouse.

Yes FF I am fully understanding that and I'm like you. It's not my choice what she chose to do. 

One important point missing is that I had wanted to come to the city once or twice/month for a while, staying a few days at a time, and my spouse at the beginning agreed to do that. But than she stopped wanting to go, and I badly needed the contact with the city for my work. She also refused to let me use her car for the day. Her personal reasons. I remember she said she didn't want to be stranded at her house for the whole day without her car. She was very protective of that.

So when I came back to the house after the month of absence, I had already decided that for me 'looking for a job' was not working in the small town. I chose to go live in the city for my personal reasons.

I agree that the conflict regarding her friend's behavior was not resolved by me going to the city. It was more that I wanted to go live there for myself, and that it released some tensions for my spouse than (er, the conflict became moot). Turns out that this decision was good for both of us. Not only it suited us best, but we loved the new place as 'our place'.

Does that help clarify?

[formflier]

Yes... it does clarify, but I don't think it alters the "Facts on the ground."

The "marriage" and the "marital home" have been "ranked down" by many people.  Those reasons are all their own...

So... .please understand that.  When you are asking for repair or "upholding" of marital agreements... .that is obviously a low priority for everyone involved.

Does the friend want to uphold your marriage?

When a choice between marriage and marital home came up for you, you make a choice other than prioritizing the marriage (and that's ok).

When your wife could have chosen the marriage or having a friend and you in the marital home... .we see what she chose.

Please... again... .don't take this as "judgment" pro or con on the choices, but an acknowledgment that all three parties involved aren't putting the marriage "at a high rank" in their priorities.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

What concerns me, braveSun, is that you're in a totally passive position, waiting for her to do the right thing. What can you do in the meantime to make yourself less vulnerable? What if she lets you get evicted and does nothing to help you out with money for food? What plans do you have in place should that happen? And what about looking for a temporary job? That you are not in a stable place makes looking for a roommate impossible at the moment. What can you do to get out from under your wife's financial control?   

Cat

[braveSun]

This has been quite a ride... And not over yet. I have been able to talk with her on the phone. So technically, ST has been broken.

However, my spouse is now saying she doesn't have any money to pay for the apartment nor my needs. She says that she can only give me a small amount every month.

If I look at it from a different perspective, it appears almost like a reasonable proposal. Mainly something that could top my earnings if I would take a PT job at near min wage, but would not be sufficient for me to live above poverty level. This was also coupled with the idea that she could also share half of the income she gets from the bnb she operates at her property. But the amount there is very unpredictable, very small, largely inefficient as a source of living income. I brought back the idea of her renting at least one of her two apartments for a more steady income, at least temporarily. I sent her four links of decent online ads people in her area were posting. She said she'd answer to one just to see what she'd get. Heard nothing since. 

We're nowhere near any of that plan being put together from where things are now. I am just in awe at how much I am being screwed right now in this situation!... I have never been in such a mess in my entire life.

Because I had a meeting for a potential roommate scheduled Thursday, she decided to deposit something than. A bit less that half of what I need. So I have made a partial payment. Rent is still not paid in full. I reached out to the real estate cie to let them know that I'll get back to them with the rest this coming week.

They don't know about me looking for a roommate. Thursday's roommate appointment fell through, and I am meeting a new applicant this week. I don't want to tell them until I have someone, because I still don't know what direction to take. They have replied on Friday afternoon that they want the remaining balance paid by Monday. Not going to happen, unless a miracle comes through.

Didn't receive any eviction notice yet. Don't know what to expect from them. I suppose they do need to give me at least a five days notice.

I have no CC. My spouse does. She's not cooperative.

She has called one time after the big conversation (when she had decided to deposit some funds). She knows the total amount needed, and she knows what it's for.

That one time, she was sweet. Wishing me good night like we used to do before.

However, me, I cannot call her back and pick up the sweet back and forth, like we used to before.
***

Right now, I'm trying to get a roommate, so that I can stabilize having a roof over my head. There are 3 months left on the lease, so that may be possible to find. I took some of the funds she deposited to pay for a critical bill that would have ended in a disconnection. And some for food, as everything in the apt was empty. The rest went for the partial rent payment, which is about 2/3 of the rent amount.

Because some rent is still due, and some time has passed between the beginning of the month and now, even if I get a roommate to move in mid-month, I'll be running short for both paying back the old roommate's deposit withing legal delays, and for the remaining of the rent.

I'm feeling so crushed.

I don't want to continue a relationship that puts me in such situations. I have never had to deal with insurmountable stuff like this before in my entire life.

To be honest, it's hard for me to think about looking for a job at this point. I am fearing eviction. I feel like I have to find somebody who wants to stay with me as a roommate now. Than I can focus on finding some jobs I can walk to (high heat climate and no car).

The old roommate's deposit is hanging on me alone. My spouse doesn't think having anything to do with it. Never mind that the deposit was used toward a rent payment she didn't help me with after the roommate moved in. After the six weeks of ST, she's conveniently of the position now that she did not want that apartment, it was all for me, and that she's not responsible for me anymore. Ah!...

I've also heard from one of the friends who still is talking to me that I had not worked in nine months, and that it was a 'huge amount of time not working'.  Never mind that I was hustling roommates, and working in research and development for my own residual income project. That didn't count as working for my spouse.
 
If she  is hustling on some money making project, she is 'working on it'.

If I  am  working on some money making project, I am 'doing nothing'.

I see her move allright.


Sorry it all sounds like I really need to vent right now. I feel trapped into a place I never suspected she would push me into. She's definitely having some object consistency issues.

[formflier]

   

In most states they first have to send a demand letter and wait.  Then they have to file suit to get you evicted.  Then, assuming the judge awards the landlord "possession" an eviction date can be scheduled.

In some states... if you appeal the award... that can get you more time.

Has she shared any documents with you about her financial condition? 

Did she share any documents with you when you made the plan for the apartment or to move to this country?

What happened to the $$ she was planning on using to pay the expenses?  Or... did she lie to you?

I'm sure this feels really bad to you, it doesn't have a good feel from where I sit either. 

FF

[braveSun]

Thanks FF, I'll check on the local delays before I am expected to be out if evicted. So far we received 2nd notices of late payment over email. Both hers and mine were sent the same emails.

She also got a copy of the reach out response I sent to the real estate cie in one of their emails to both of us.
****

About financial disclosure. Her tax returns were first used to back up my immigration sponsorship.  But she could not qualify on her tax returns alone that year, because of the disaster/property devaluation/deferment amounts playing on her yearly income taxes. The end income was too low to qualify her as a sponsor. She could sponsor me, however, once she disclosed one of her (income producing) assets.  A bank letter. The overall picture I never really got. She didn't share everything  when we got married and discussed the prenup. She shared her everyday household/credit cards account amounts. I didn't get to see the books nor the bills on an on-going basis. She didn't like me to mingle in her finances, so I didn't see the need to push for keeping a peep into it. I got to look into some accounts where I was involved in personally. CC bills mainly. In her presentation of her finances, she basically wrote her numbers on the page of a notebook. Her own everyday monthly income vs spending. To give me a gist. Estimates. This was all the information I got.

At the time I thought it was reasonable, considering it was her  money. I didn't ask for more. Later she showed me her income tax return. That's what the lawyers go with I suppose. She speaks of the tax returns as being representative of her financial situation.

I know she does other side gigs for income. All of them are sort of unpredictable. Either work or not, most of the time they work somewhat. bnb is one of them. But when she calculated the income of the bnb, she also deducts all her operating costs, property taxes included. I don't have any rights to her assets.

It really comes down to me not being able to rely much on her in the end. She likes to keep a mystery around how much she actually can have.

When we took the apartment together, she only agreed to help me get on my feet here in the city. She didn't disclose more of her finances. Only I knew that she gets paid once/year a large amount, and than by the end of the fiscal year, there is not much left. She is typically broke around the end of the year.

Two of her side projects fell through this spring. That is the subject of our conversation right now. But last year she had a new pool installed, built a deck, re-landscaped her property (modestly), bought an expensive generator, and had some mid-range repairs done to the house. Some funds were released for these large expenses, from other sources she doesn't discuss with me. At same time she did cut me off at some point.

When she tells me she doesn't have money to support me, I may see it's because she presents this as she allocates unreliable/highly fluctuating sources of income for the apartment or my needs. All in all, so far when she says she doesn't have any money, I take it with a grain of salt. She can go a long time with living very frugally if there is something she wants to spend on instead of everyday small luxuries. But she has fluctuating interests in any type of ventures she goes into. A lot of enthusiasm at the beginning, not much follow through when the going gets tough.

She used the same bank letter to support her financial admissibility for the apartment lease than she used for the immigration sponsorship.

To be clear, I don't think she lied to me about the sources she was planing to use for the apartment and my needs. She just doesn't want to re-organize her finances to make things work, now that these unreliable sources don't work.

I feel cheated on because of that.

If she did, really consider renting at least one of her apartments she uses for bnb, she could have good stable income she could finance half of the apartment expenses. This way we might be able to afford it together on our own, if I work PT, and continue on my project in my field at same time. That would greatly help our relationship because we would have a place which both of us are defining.

[formflier]

BraveSun,

I'm on your side... I'm here to help you make the best out of your life and your relationship.

So... please hang with me, remembering I'm on your side as  I say a few things... then I'm going to have some advice for you.

I've been an real estate investor since the early 2000s... .I could make an argument on paper that I'm worth a ridiculous amount of money.  I've had banks create letters for me in the past, they were usually accurate "from a certain point of view".

Much of how you describe her and "projects" could describe me.  Lots of interest and then a period where it appears I don't give a rip.  Sometimes I just don't have the time... .sometimes I'm being purposeful about letting time pass for a specific reason... vice lack of interest.

Not all projects are race to the finish line and collect $$ (although those are my favorite)

On the one hand... .I don't doubt that she has assets and projects that could/should pay off.  She very well may not have any that are paying off at the moment or the "cost" or "opportunity cost" to have them pay off isn't "worth it to her", yet it may be to you.

It's entirely possible (and my best guess) that she has decided supporting you isn't "worth it"... vice "can't". 

She likely looked at what it would take... .and... ."it wasn't worth it".

OK... remember... I'm on your side.

She may also look at you and your relationship as a "project"... .with a "let's see if this works out" attitude.  It clearly doesn't have a "this is my spouse... .and my most important priority in life" type of attitude.

Time and time again I read your posts and frankly I'm shocked at the "apparent value" that people involved are putting on the marriage.  The marriage seems to constantly get shuffled down in priority. 

So, braveSun... .I think you are at a place where you need to make some "strategic decisions".  This not a "run message" on the marriage/relationship... .but it IS a run message on any plan that requires financial support from your wife.

You can't count on that  Is there any reason to conclude otherwise? 

So... I hope you can figure out a way you can live your life... .on what you have/earn.  Then... if your wife chooses to bless you with support, it's a bonus. 


FF

[braveSun]

Thanks for your input FF. Probably like you, it's my belief you don't just marry some people from another country after knowing them for 18 + years, and than just decide that this is not worth your investment... .

Argument moot... . 

Sorry!... I get that you are trying to 'help me' decide the potential future of this relationship. I, however, am trying to find strategies, support and solace for what could turn out to be a pretty mess for my present and future life.

Saying something in the like of 'you can't count on that' will not help the present situation, nor any possible plans for the future. There is no plans. Only things to respond to, until one can come up to some kind of stable outlook.

Which I am slated to provide. Eventually.

Your insights on how my spouse could be thinking as a real estate owner are greatly appreciated, indeed.

Brave

[braveSun]

Well, that's a good thing I checked into this. Because on our lease there was a clause I never suspected would come to apply to us. It says that we are waiving our rights to the notice 'to pay or vacate' in case of an eviction. It's only five business days if you didn't waive it.

I may be at a loss about what my spouse is up to regarding me right now. But I am more stunned by the ways this real estate company conducts their own affairs. So far they have acknowledged receiving the partial payment I have made, but they didn't process it. In my city, once the (court) eviction process is started, you can't pay the remaining of the rent due to stop it. Partial rent is not even considered. You than incur eviction legal costs.

I find this quite shocking. That means they can proceed with the eviction process (go to court for it) as early as Tuesday morning. I know that she will go ballistic if I share that info with her.

There is still a chance that the roommate applicant who is coming for a visit tomorrow will decide to take the room and pay for a deposit tomorrow afternoon. If so, they either can pay with electronic transfer right away, or my spouse would have to pay with a credit card for the remainder of the rent by the end of the day. But how will I go about getting her to give me the funds to reimburse the old roommate?

Or, if I reach out to the real estate office (a phone call), I can't think it would be any reassuring news to say that my spouse is currently not quite fit to respond on time, bla bla bla... I cannot think of anything that makes any sense.

It's certainly qualifies as any kind of saga worth your entertainment on Masterpiece Theater.  Besides that my name is on this lease, and my credit rating, or even my ability to obtain a lease in the future can be compromised.

: O=

[formflier]

I realize you are deep in the weeds of solving "this" problem at the moment.

I hope something comes through for you. 

However... .you are in an apartment that you can't afford.  If you get a roomie... yet have no support from your spouse, can you afford it then?

Sometimes when we are in the weeds... .we start loosing sight of the big picture.

Why on earth are you the least bit worried about your spouse "loosing it" for having to deal with abrogation of her own agreement? 

If there is a court proceeding, she should know about it when you no about it.

You should show up to court.

I'm sorry this is happening to you.  I don't think you should pay any money towards the apartment unless you are sure that the past due status/eviction status has been cleared.

FF

[formflier]

HeybraveSun

Can you give us an update when you get a chance?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Hope you're doing OK, braveSun.   

Cat

[braveSun]

Wow!... This has been quite a ride. Thank you for checking FF and Cat.
I am still sitting at my computer in the apartment, and I feel much better about it now. 

August rent got finally paid and through thick and thin, I didn't get evicted. The real estate cie did process the partial payment, and this in turn was better for us regarding potential court procedures. Eventually I called a friend of hers and she helped each of us to process our feelings separately, so we could take the situation where it was at, instead of where we wanted it to be. Humbling for me, because it was all seen through the eyes of someone who does not see the distortions. But it helped us get beyond the harsh feelings. Than.

Than I found a roommate. She paid a deposit and her share of Sept rent upfront. I could take care of everything pending. Than we had another crisis when I emailed my spouse asking her about 'our share' (my wording) of the apt expenses for Sept. Breaking the lease right now would mean paying for the remaining months on the lease and losing the deposit. That's the value of 3 month's rent. There for a few days I had to just let everything go. I could not do better.

After three days of ST she called and told me she had borrowed money 'for me' and for herself (two equal amounts, her wording) and that she could send me that amount now for both Sept and Oct, but nothing anymore. That was not enough to be sure. But by than I had already a roommate secured, and applied for a job that has a bit of potential. Now I'm preparing interview questions. 

One thing I would like to share is that on that day she deposited money for Sept rent, she was very upset but not angry. She was sad on the phone. She said that she'd rather 'not hear from me' (omitted the word 'anymore', like she used to say before). It was painful to hear her, but she was respectful. She hung up abruptly. I could tell it was because she didn't want to have cryings on the phone.

I wanted to respond because of the abrupt ending of the call. I felt sad too, naturally, but I wanted her to know what I was feeling. I decided to record a voice message and send it to her over email. I recorded my feelings and validated her feelings. I told her that I knew she was angry, and that I was feeling respected this time. I told her that I was going to respect her wishes for me to not call her, and I told her I love her and when she feels again that she misses me I asked her to call me than. And don't wait too long. I told her that I knew she loves me because she was doing her best (borrowed money). I was doing my best as well.

She went ST for a few days, than called me back on Sept 1st. She had received money from her bnb and was going to send me half of it, 'for food'. 

In the meantime on my side I had found a second, temporary roommate for a week, which brought in a bit more money too. With these two converging efforts, I was OK with foods and bills for this month, and still can save enough to cover the rent for Oct first. Strangely now I feel much stronger. I am still not employed, but I have crunched my own numbers and made my own estimate plans. I cannot be certain that all of this will work out, but strangely I feel like it will in the end.

So far the new roommate is going to stay until December. I will have to find someone else than. But I like the new person. I am excited to meet with her this Saturday. And it's fun to have another person living with me in the meantime. I have checked on the lease terms again and found out that comes Nov 1st, if we don't give a 30 days vacation notice, and the real estate cie doesn't give us a 30 days notice to vacate either, the lease is automatically renewed, but month to month.  I am somewhat relieved. My spouse is probably too.

If this job application works out, I will be able to pick up my share of the apt expenses from Nov on. That's not the end of my troubles, I know.

But now I am seeing that my spouse does her best, and that I will take care of my own needs, just because I don't like her ways to not plan better for supporting me. Because I care better for myself. One important truth: I have done my best all along, with the information I had at the time. That will not change. I am moving on now and holding this to my own heart.

That's the new for me.

One more thing. Thanks to you all sharing your insights and experiences with me, I could sort of get an idea of some 'other's' perspective. I won't say that my spouse is 100% 'there' as a spouse. But I do feel much more grounded in reality for having heard from your respective vantage points of view. It's only when I could feel a sense of gaining some control over my situation that I could feel a sense of personal accountability. I think that must be what you were referring to, Notwendy, when you said that you felt much better to go to work and do a good job at work.

It's just a moment in time. Today. I. feel. this. way.

But than again, today and everyday are only moments in time.

Thank you.

Brave