Here's my problem with JADE-ing

[professorplum]

I just re-read the JADE description, and it makes a lot of sense.  Certainly justifying, arguing, being defensive, or explaining myself only makes my wife's response to me much angrier. 

the problem I have is that she actually _asks_ me to JADE.  She'll say "you left this item here where I told you not to.  Why would you do that?  Explain that to me."  And then I will say something like "that's actually where I found that item and I thought I would return it to the same place" or "I thought it was left there for a reason and put it back because you might look for it there", etc.  And then she'll get even angrier. 

I need to re-read what to do instead of JADE... .but in my case I fall into that trap because she often wants to know _why_ I have acted to make her so upset. 

[defogging]

Not JADEing has helped the confrontations in my house.  (Not that life is fun, but I get sucked into fewer circular arguments)

The way I see it, I'm under no obligation to respond to her accusations and explain my every breath to her.  A lot of times I'll answer simply "oh yeah, I guess I left that there".  If she wants to push it further, I'll tell her I have better things to do with my time than argue over little things and walk away. 

A recent one for me is getting grilled over why I take a day off from work every now and then.  I have a great job and a boss that doesn't care as long as I'm taking care of my business, which of course I am.  If I take a day off and she demands to know why, I've gone as far as to tell her it's none of her d**n business.

It's not the way I want to act as a husband, but she doesn't need to be on my case like that and pushing back seems to help.  Basically, my attitude is that I'm a grown man and she needs to get her own act together before she worries about me.  She's the one that is constantly running late and disorganized, and having trouble getting things accomplished at work.

[professorplum]

Thanks, that is helpful, I think.  Admitting that I did something but not trying to explain why even when asked for is something I can try. 

[Woodchuck]

Not JADEing has helped the confrontations in my house.  (Not that life is fun, but I get sucked into fewer circular arguments)

The way I see it, I'm under no obligation to respond to her accusations and explain my every breath to her.  A lot of times I'll answer simply "oh yeah, I guess I left that there".  If she wants to push it further, I'll tell her I have better things to do with my time than argue over little things and walk away. 

A recent one for me is getting grilled over why I take a day off from work every now and then.  I have a great job and a boss that doesn't care as long as I'm taking care of my business, which of course I am.  If I take a day off and she demands to know why, I've gone as far as to tell her it's none of her d**n business.

It's not the way I want to act as a husband, but she doesn't need to be on my case like that and pushing back seems to help.  Basically, my attitude is that I'm a grown man and she needs to get her own act together before she worries about me.  She's the one that is constantly running late and disorganized, and having trouble getting things accomplished at work.

defogging-
I have had a very similar issue in the past with taking days off.  She would lose it if I took a day off without clearing it with her first.  She did not like me in 'her space' (the house).  When I asked her to clarify what space was hers and what was mine, she told me that my space was my side of the bed and the garage.  The rest was hers since she stayed at home and took care of keeping the house up. 
I have recently employed the not JADEing methods and if nothing else, it makes me feel better.   I don't need to explain everything to her.  I am not her child and don't owe her an explanation for everything or clear everything through her.  It is just a hard concept for me to grasp because I keep wanting to look at it as things would be in a healthy relationship where two people can communicate and discuss things and make decisions/compromises.  I am slowly able to change my mindset and responding without JADEing.  It is a lot of work, especially when I enjoy debating.

Woodchuck

[defogging]

Woodchuck - How did you respond when told your space is the garage and half the bed?  I think I would have a big issue with being told that, since I'm assuming your paycheck covers the mortgage!  In my situation we both work and make good money, almost the same salary but she makes a few thousand more than me.  She likes to claim that "her job makes our life possible".  Um, yeah right.

It is just a hard concept for me to grasp because I keep wanting to look at it as things would be in a healthy relationship where two people can communicate and discuss things and make decisions/compromises. 

This is something that is really hard for me right now, I wish I had a partner I could make decisions with but I just don't think she's capable of working anything out like a real couple.  I've accepted it fairly well, but it's tough when some decisions really need two people involved.

We have some big decisions to make (moving, finances) and we can't do it.  She keeps raging about how she wants to move, I tell her to make time to talk to me and we can put a plan into action.  She then buries herself in her work and the kids, and claims she's too busy to schedule a time to talk.  So I just sit and wait for the conversation that will never come and keep getting yelled at.

The financial part is easier, we need to make some changes and I'm just going to take care of it since I handle the money.  Her idea of a financial discussion is to go through our past spending and grill me over every cent I've spent, it's painful.  The funny thing is I've noticed that not talking to her about it is easier, she's "too busy" to notice what I've changed anyways, and if she does notice it blows over within a day and she's on to her next self-made crisis.

[once removed]

speaking generally... .

there are, of course, times when it is appropriate to explain our point of view or our actions. we dont want to stonewall the other person, that tends to fuel conflict just as much. my rule of thumb is that i do so once, twice max. anything more and we are into circular argument territory.

you say when you do this she gets angrier. can you tell us more? what does she say and do?

[professorplum]

you say when you do this she gets angrier. can you tell us more? what does she say and do?

Mostly she'll argue with me.  For example, I carried a heavy item to our basement a couple of weeks ago and put it where I had found it.  Suddenly this weekend she needed to get behind the item for the first time in years, and was raging mad at me for putting it there.  I told her that that is where I had found it when I brought it up originally.  She angrily denied that was true and said I just dropped things where I found a spot to drop them. 

Now, that's a fair accusation in a lot of ways.  I do tend to be disorganized with things and sometimes leave them in places where there is room.  However, I did actually find the item in that location to begin with.  So, I was able to talk about how i do leave things without a lot of thought sometimes without pressing the "where I found it" issue, and that calmed things down. 

I see now that that was more validating and less JADEing. 

[Woodchuck]

Mostly she'll argue with me.  For example, I carried a heavy item to our basement a couple of weeks ago and put it where I had found it.  Suddenly this weekend she needed to get behind the item for the first time in years, and was raging mad at me for putting it there.  I told her that that is where I had found it when I brought it up originally.  She angrily denied that was true and said I just dropped things where I found a spot to drop them. 

Now, that's a fair accusation in a lot of ways.  I do tend to be disorganized with things and sometimes leave them in places where there is room.  However, I did actually find the item in that location to begin with.  So, I was able to talk about how i do leave things without a lot of thought sometimes without pressing the "where I found it" issue, and that calmed things down. 

I see now that that was more validating and less JADEing. 

professorplum-
I have the same kind of scenario constantly.  My W is constantly telling the children and myself that she is the only one in the house that is organized and takes care of things.  She will 'rage' about things being left out or dishes not being rinsed or being put in the wrong side of the sink etc.  In reality, no one in the house is neat and tidy.  We all make messes but she can't see that.  she took some of my tools and a bottle of glue to fix a chair a week ago.  Did she put them away when she was done?  Nope, they are still on the table where she left them.  She did go to the effort to take all of my things I had put on the table and throw them all in a box and put them in the basement.  I don't know how many times I walk in the kitchen and see something that she has used sitting on the counter, clearly not having been rinsed.  It is completely pointless to bring any of it up or point it out to her because she can find a way to justify all of it so I just let it go.  When the kids say something to me about how she gets after them for not being 100% neat and tidy, I explain to them that none of us in the house are 100% neat and tidy and that I recognize that they do try.

[Woodchuck]

Woodchuck - How did you respond when told your space is the garage and half the bed?  I think I would have a big issue with being told that, since I'm assuming your paycheck covers the mortgage!  In my situation we both work and make good money, almost the same salary but she makes a few thousand more than me.  She likes to claim that "her job makes our life possible".  Um, yeah right.

This is something that is really hard for me right now, I wish I had a partner I could make decisions with but I just don't think she's capable of working anything out like a real couple.  I've accepted it fairly well, but it's tough when some decisions really need two people involved.

We have some big decisions to make (moving, finances) and we can't do it.  She keeps raging about how she wants to move, I tell her to make time to talk to me and we can put a plan into action.  She then buries herself in her work and the kids, and claims she's too busy to schedule a time to talk.  So I just sit and wait for the conversation that will never come and keep getting yelled at.

The financial part is easier, we need to make some changes and I'm just going to take care of it since I handle the money.  Her idea of a financial discussion is to go through our past spending and grill me over every cent I've spent, it's painful.  The funny thing is I've noticed that not talking to her about it is easier, she's "too busy" to notice what I've changed anyways, and if she does notice it blows over within a day and she's on to her next self-made crisis.

defogging-
When she made that statement, I am sure that I tried to explain that I do pay the mortgage and take care of the maintenance around the home etc but her viewpoint is that she takes care of cleaning etc and therefore it is hers, much like she gets the deciding vote with anything regarding the children because she spends the most time with them.  I do have a serious problem with that kind of thinking but it is impossible to talk to her about it at all.  As of last night, she told me that the house is mine and she has no responsibility to help out with anything regarding paying for upkeep/maintenance.  This was a result of me outlining that I have put several thousand dollars into repairs/maintenance over the last several months.  So now the house is suddenly mine.  It is mind boggling how the mentality swings from one extreme to the other in order to justify the thought process.  We both make a decent living but she does not contribute financially at all.  Her claim over the last few years has been that she is putting money away for when I retire so we will have a 'cushion'.  I have never fully trusted this but have went along with it.  If you have seen my most recent posts, you know how that is turning out.

Woodchuck