S3 disclosed a new man’s name

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I can’t say that I’m necessarily over my ex, but there is absolutely no way that I would ever reconcile. If not for S3, I would have absolutely nothing to do with her. I truly wish that it was possible to have nothing to do with her even with S3 in the mix.

Not long after our final split, our Son was mentioning another guy. Turns out it was an ex of her’s. I found this out by asking her. Anyway, last night S3 spoke another name. For whatever reason, it hurt to hear this. I broke down and had to leave the room. S3 caught on and followed me. He started asking me if I miss mommy. I felt really bad for breaking down in front of him like that. I couldn’t contain it.

I’m so sick of this. I don’t want her or anyone like her. I know that may sound strange because at one time I would’ve done anything to save our relationship. It bothers me to no end that she will bring these men in and out of our Son’s life. Her daughter as well. I feel helpless and a great deal of fear that I will eventually be replaced as a father. I also fear that our Son will adopt this behavior as a normal family based dynamic.

I will not let on to my ex that I am aware that yet another man is around our Son. What would be the point anyway. I guess it’s a gut punch to my self esteem as well. I’m his biological father, but was never good enough in her eyes to matter enough to keep the nuclear family together. I just needed to get that out.

[JNChell]

I can’t say that I’m necessarily over my ex, but there is absolutely no way that I would ever reconcile. If not for S3, I would have absolutely nothing to do with her. I truly wish that it was possible to have nothing to do with her even with S3 in the mix.

Not long after our final split, our Son was mentioning another guy. Turns out it was an ex of her’s. I found this out by asking her. Anyway, last night S3 spoke another name. For whatever reason, it hurt to hear this. I broke down and had to leave the room. S3 caught on and followed me. He started asking me if I miss mommy. I felt really bad for breaking down in front of him like that. I couldn’t contain it.

I’m so sick of this. I don’t want her or anyone like her. I know that may sound strange because at one time I would’ve done anything to save our relationship. It bothers me to no end that she will bring these men in and out of our Son’s life. Her daughter as well. I feel helpless and a great deal of fear that I will eventually be replaced as a father. I also fear that our Son will adopt this behavior as a normal family based dynamic.

I will not let on to my ex that I am aware that yet another man is around our Son. What would be the point anyway. I guess it’s a gut punch to my self esteem as well. I’m his biological father, but was never good enough in her eyes to matter enough to keep the nuclear family together. I just needed to get that out.

[Mustbeabetterway]

  JNChell,  I think that hearing your son speak about another guy would be upsetting to anyone.   Especially when you have still been struggling to get past your attachment to her.  So, I think the thing is to take a breath, you felt the sting and now you must move past it.

About your fear of being replaced, you are his biological dad and nobody can take that place - it’s impossible.  You will always be his father.  You are trying very hard to be a good dad and if you keep that focus, you will continue to develop a bond that cannot be broken.

What type of custody arrangement do you have now?

Mustbe

[Panda39]

Hi JNChell,

I'm sorry you're experiencing this situation and I sure can see how it would be upsetting.  If this were me I would find these many relationships... .interchangable partners very invalidating in terms of my own relationship, maybe that's part of what is so hard... .it would bring up questions in my mind, was I as important to her as she was to me... .did I matter?

I'm afraid in terms of her relationships and your son the goal here is going to be "radical acceptance".  It is her life and she is going to live it her way and I know you know that, we can't make anyone else do something they don't want to do... .we can only control our own actions.  Yes, unfortunately this means that she will not always put what's best for your son before her own needs and impulses.

I know how hard this is, it was a tough lesson I had to learn regarding my SO's daughters and their mother.  We can't always protect our kids from the behavior of a BPD Parent and the kids learn some very hard lessons... .the hard way.  It totally sucks but unless there is a danger to the child we really need to let it go for our own sanity.  What you can do is be there to support your son, be the consistent, validating parent that can put him first and be his dad.

And you are his dad, no one else is or will ever be!    But wouldn't you rather have someone in his life through his mother that he does like?  I come at this from the other side, I'm a step... .girlfriend of 8 years and I know I will never be my SO's daughter's mom but I can be another positive adult in their life that is my goal.

Hang in there try and not focus so much on your ex but keep your focus on your son.

Panda39

[JNChell]

Hi, Mustbe. Thanks for reaching out. The custody agreement is me having him 3 weekends (Fri. after work until Mon. morning) a month and every Tuesday overnight. It’s not uncommon for his mom to forfeit her time with him. Even when she’s made “special” plans that alter the schedule. It’s a given that I will take him any time that she doesn’t want him. The last time this occurred her reasoning was that he was being awful and not doing what he was told, and that he didn’t deserve to participate in the special plans that she had set. He’s 3... .

There is no court order in place. I’m uncertain at this point if court will be necessary. She and her ex-husband managed to avoid it with their D9. I’d like to avoid it as well, if possible. Time needs to pass, and I need therapy under my belt if it ever goes there. It’s a complicated story that is vaguely outlined in my OP on this site. The lowest and darkest times in my life unfolded while trying to keep us together. I imagine that that sounds a bit odd, but it is what it was. Thanks again for replying.

[JNChell]

Panda39, I’ll be back to respond as soon as I’m able. I just wanted to give a quick thanks for reaching out.

[JNChell]

Hello’ Panda39.

I'm afraid in terms of her relationships and your son the goal here is going to be "radical acceptance".  It is her life and she is going to live it her way and I know you know that, we can't make anyone else do something they don't want to do... .we can only control our own actions.  Yes, unfortunately this means that she will not always put what's best for your son before her own needs and impulses.

Thanks for reminding of this. RA is a hard concept to turn into a habit. I understand, that as adults, it’s difficult to break old patterns to form new and healthier ones. But I find that RA makes total sense. Implementing it on the fly is the hard part.

Before we got pregnant with our Son, I witnessed her putting her needs and impulses (me) before her daughter. This is retrospect as many things that I’m now concluding are.

What you can do is be there to support your son, be the consistent, validating parent that can put him first and be his dad.

I had a T session this evening, and she basically said the same, exact thing. Thank you for validating that.

And you are his dad, no one else is or will ever be!  Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post) But wouldn't you rather have someone in his life through his mother that he does like?  I come at this from the other side, I'm a step... .girlfriend of 8 years and I know I will never be my SO's daughter's mom but I can be another positive adult in their life that is my goal.

My T also reassured me that I will always be his dad. She informed me that the first 2 years of his life, from the bonding aspect, are the most important and that I have that under my belt. That was relieving to learn.

I’m not at a point where I can wrap my head around another male figure being an influence in my Son’s life that is intimately involved with his mother. As much as I have negative feelings towards her currently, I still view her as a sacred chalice that allowed me to father a Son. I’ll get there, but I need time with that.

I’m glad that you’re able to be that positive female figure, that is intimately involved with their father, for your step daughters. I think that is wonderful!     It is setting a good example for them on what a loving relationship should look like. They need a healthy frame of reference for things like that.

[Panda39]

Thanks for reminding of this. RA is a hard concept to turn into a habit. I understand, that as adults, it’s difficult to break old patterns to form new and healthier ones. But I find that RA makes total sense. Implementing it on the fly is the hard part.

Yes this takes time, I can tell you I wasn't accepting anything when I arrived here, I was one angry Panda.  You are part of the way there you at least get RA now it's going to be getting some practice with it.  Like learning anything new it takes practice.  Sometimes it still isn't always easy... .but it is so much better than the alternative... .anger, particularly toxic anger which was how I was when I arrived on these boards.

Hang in there,
Panda39

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hey JNChell,

I do remember your OP.  It sounds as if you have quite a bit of access to your son.  I understand not wanting to pursue a court order.  I’m glad that you are still in therapy and working on yourself.

I would echo to continue being consistent and reliable for your son.  He will definitely be needing you even more as he begins to mature, and you will be the rock for him, I am sure.

Keep up the good work!  You can’t let whatever you think that she thinks about you derail you.  Stay strong, I’m rooting for you.

Mustbeabetterway

[Turkish]

My kids' mom left me for another guy (a college football jock 20 years my junior and 10 years hers) in 2013 when they were D1 and S3. Let's baseline it at February of 2014 when she finally moved out and our son had just turned 4. She introduced the kids to him soon after (because he was The One), and it resulted in issues with both kids,  mostly our son,  soon after. We got through that.  S was exhibiting anger at Mommy. I went to see my T. He said, "it's none of the kids' business who the kids choose to have adult relationships with.  Ouch. I felt he was talking to me as well.  Kind of invalidated, I thought about it and he was right.  

It kind of killed me to hear the kids talking about the OM positively, but I validated, or at least didn't invalidate. My mindset was, as it still is, don't hurt the kids.  

They got engaged a year later, married 6 months later, then the drama started between them.  S told me he was sad that mommy called his Step-dad "stupid." I validated that it was sad,  not editorializing that I agreed   but I felt sad for my kids that they had to witness that.  And that witnessed later DV... .

Though they've been separated for over a year physically, he still comes around. My kids like him.  As an adult, I think he's an odd duck, but I don't share that with my kids.  I validate that they like him,  even though it pisses me off that my ex couldn't make it work and hurt our kids in so many ways given leaving me, marrying him, DV and verbal and emotional abuse by her towards him,  separation, then reengagement  (kind of). What a lousy example of marriage, all the while the kids wishing we were back together.

I see the dysfunction, as do you.  The kids have no concept or history other than to see what they see.  

My kids like the guy, sure, but they know who their Daddy is.  Through all 0f this dysfunction.  They knew and they know.  I know that you're worried about this, but if you are the calm and stable presence in your kid's life,  he will know you are his Daddy, mommy,  her partner aside. My kids know it. Believe it and he will know it.  

[40days_in_desert]

JNChell - I know how you feel and it sucks. No matter how much your head knows that there is a personality disorder involved, it hurts. I know how you feel because something similar happened to me when my ex and I parted ways a little over three years ago. She rekindled a romantic relationship with an ex-boyfriend (before we separated). It was painful to hear my kids to talk about him and being around him. I actually have proof from discovery between my ex and her boyfriend that she was trying to put him in place as their father in a few situations. Those are only the occasions that I can prove. Like you, I didn't say anything to MY EX. It would only trigger her to do more. 

Recently, our second oldest daughter decided to move in with me. Our oldest daughter has lived with me full time for the past two and a half years. I just had a conversation yesterday with my second oldest daughter. She explained that her mother, my ex, basically told me that her mother told her frequently that I did things and still doing things to her (to her mother). Obviously the vast majority were complete fabrications and the rest were greatly exaggerated. Money that I was withholding, prostitutes, abuse, etc. She told me that her mother had her believing a lot of the things that she was telling her about me. When asked what she thinks now, she said that she doesn't believe her. She went on to say that her mother would say bad things about me most of the time but she didn't see those bad things in me. She also said, "Things mom would say... .that's not my dad!". On the other hand, she said that she doesn't remember me saying bad things about her mom but she would witness her mother's actions. The lying/deceit, trying to make our daughter believe things that aren't true, the poor decisions, etc. She was happy that she was allowed to come to her own conclusions about her mother without my influence. Her mother did not extend the same opportunity about me.

I echo what Turkish said about responding to the kids when they talk about the OM. They would talk about him positively off and on. I did my best to respond happy that they had these positive experiences when around the OM. It was hard, very hard.
Best of luck JNChell.

[JNChell]

It kind of killed me to hear the kids talking about the OM positively, but I validated, or at least didn't invalidate. My mindset was, as it still is, don't hurt the kids. 

I’m truly sorry about this, Turkish. I can empathize. Man, it’s abrasive to hear S3 mention these guys. I wonder if she will eventually rage at some of these poor guys in front of him like she did with me. S3 would sometimes cry when she did this. It didn’t seem to phase her. Have you ever really gotten used to your children talking about OM to you?

I validate that they like him,  even though it pisses me off that my ex couldn't make it work and hurt our kids in so many ways given leaving me, marrying him, DV and verbal and emotional abuse by her towards him,  separation, then reengagement  (kind of). What a lousy example of marriage, all the while the kids wishing we were back together.

Again, I empathize. As I’m removing myself farther from the FOG, I’m accepting more and more that it is the disorder. Initiating the lowest of LC that I was able to has helped me with this. Very often, as in every time I have S3, he will make mention, in his own words, that he wants his mom and I back together. Lately, after trying to explain to him that it can’t be that way, he will say that he’s together with me. It melts my heart.

The kids have no concept or history other than to see what they see.

Thanks for replying, Turkish. Always appreciated and well received.

[JNChell]

Hello, 40days_in_desert! Thanks for reaching out.

She rekindled a romantic relationship with an ex-boyfriend (before we separated). It was painful to hear my kids to talk about him and being around him. I actually have proof from discovery between my ex and her boyfriend that she was trying to put him in place as their father in a few situations. Those are only the occasions that I can prove. Like you, I didn't say anything to MY EX. It would only trigger her to do more.

First, I’m really sorry about this. How are you doing with it all now? Gotta say, this sounds all too familiar with the exception of me having knowledge that my ex is attempting to have this current guy fill in for me. I imagine that that was pretty unsettling to discover.

Recently, our second oldest daughter decided to move in with me. Our oldest daughter has lived with me full time for the past two and a half years. I just had a conversation yesterday with my second oldest daughter. She explained that her mother, my ex, basically told me that her mother told her frequently that I did things and still doing things to her (to her mother). Obviously the vast majority were complete fabrications and the rest were greatly exaggerated. Money that I was withholding, prostitutes, abuse, etc. She told me that her mother had her believing a lot of the things that she was telling her about me. When asked what she thinks now, she said that she doesn't believe her. She went on to say that her mother would say bad things about me most of the time but she didn't see those bad things in me. She also said, "Things mom would say... .that's not my dad!". On the other hand, she said that she doesn't remember me saying bad things about her mom but she would witness her mother's actions. The lying/deceit, trying to make our daughter believe things that aren't true, the poor decisions, etc. She was happy that she was allowed to come to her own conclusions about her mother without my influence. Her mother did not extend the same opportunity about me.

Although it’s not an ideal situation for all involved, this makes me very happy for you and your kids. I understand the complexity and the heartache that has been part of the dissolution of your nuclear family, but all in all, this sounds like a healthy outcome. I’m sure that you feel validated by your daughter’s recent decision. How are things going since she moved in? How did her mom take it?

[40days_in_desert]

Back then it was terribly painful and difficult. She’s still with the guy and have let that go. I don’t like my kids around him but they haven’t been much in the last 3-4 months.

It was validating to hear her say the things she did. Things are pretty good between myself and the daughter in question. She recently stayed the night with her mom and her mom started with the non-stop dad bashing. The next day, my daughter asked me to come pick her up. When she sent a text to her mom, her mother sent a guilt inducing response. My ex isn’t taking it well. For the past few months, she sends this daughter (we have 4), a lot of “if you loved me, you would/wouldn’t... .” kind of text messages. All the kids love their mother and I encourage that but teaching them age appropriate boundaries along the way.

[JNChell]

40days, this sounds exhausting for you and your daughter. Are any involved in all of this in therapy? Have you tried to help your daughter set boundaries with her mom when it comes to diatribe of texting and bashing you? She came to you to escape her mother. Technology is making this impossible. You know your kids best. Do you think that it’s best to continue to let the detachment between your daughter and her mom run it’s course, or do you feel like you need to intervene? What does your gut tell you? The ex is dysregulating. That is sad for her. It’s also on her. The children are gravitating to you for a reason. Embrace and nurture that. In situations like this, they’re gravitating out of need. Give yourself the validation for that. You deserve it.

[Turkish]

I hug the crap out of my kids.  I don't know if you are the physical type,  but it works.  I look them in their faces and tell them that I love them.  It still works on S8. OM aside, and even mom,  whose been stable for the past two months, the kids who who's their Daddy.  And with whom they are safe, aside from when I forbid them things and they call me a "Meanie."

I had already kind of been doing it,  but my T reinforced this: I hug and look them in their eyes and tell them that I love them.  Loving face to face makes a huge difference and inoculates them against whatever is going on at the other house.  This is the healthy type of mirroring.  Safe love.

You have a huge advantage being bio dad.  Capitalise upon it while validating their feelings about their other father figure.  

[ForeverDad]

Over the years I heard the names of at least two men from my son in his early years.  They were in my ex's life for a few years each but now long gone.  I'm still Daddy.  (I'm a bit surprised he hasn't switched to Dad as he got older.  I'm okay either way.)

[JNChell]

Turkish, I am.

I don't know if you are the physical type,  but it works.

I take all of the hugs and moments I can get. I kiss him on the top of his head in passing. It doesn’t seem to have much of an affect anymore. He’s used to it. Maybe that’s a good thing to be used to.

[JNChell]

Agreed, ForeverDad. I’d take it well.

(I'm a bit surprised he hasn't switched to Dad as he got older.  I'm okay either way.)

[40days_in_desert]

JNChell - It can be exhausting at times. I have two daughters that live with me now but neither are seeing a T. I have spoken to my oldest about seeing a T over the past year or so and I feel that she is now open to the idea. I have spoken to my oldest at length about boundaries regarding her mother and she does quite well with that. I have started dialogue with my D14 (second oldest D) recently about boundaries. The first boundary is about how to respond to their mother talking negatively about me. My D17 would try to defend me when her mother would say negative things about me up to about two years ago. Her logic was the same as mine in the past; to defend the truth. After discussing how she felt about what her mother was saying about me, I explained that I appreciate and love her for defending me. I also explained that defending me might not be the best response for D17. That she could say something like, "Mom, I know that there are issues between you and dad. I would prefer that those issues stay between you and him. Is that ok?" It works for a while but she has to reinforce every so often. I am beginning the same process with D14 now. I also have had age appropriate yet similar convos with our youngest three when I hear them mention things that their mother or grandmother have said about me.
I also had my L file a Pendente Lite Consent Order back in February stating that neither parent shall not make any disparaging or derogatory remarks about the other parent in the presence of our children nor allow any 3rd party to make disparaging or derogatory remarks in front of our children. Of course, this doesn't prevent this from happening but gives the conversations with our oldest Ds some weight. They know that I had the order filed. Since they know that I don't make those kind of negative comments, that it was filed due to the comments that their mother had made.
I am a very physically affectionate father to my kids. Giving them hugs and kisses on the forehead, and showing love by being present with them, keeping my commitments/promises, doing things with them and admitting my faults when I make mistakes.