My Mother-in-Law Has BPD

[sewconfused]

Hi, my husband and I married almost 7 years ago. We have a blended family, my 3 girls and his two sons. Prior to meeting him he had gone through a horrible divorce from what I now can identify as a BPD wife. I am undergoing an onslaught of defamation from my mother-in-law because I called her out for being enmeshed in our family, overbearing with my step-sons and marginalizing and hurting my daughters. During a recent counseling session our family counselor identified what we were experiencing a result of my mother-in-law exhibiting the traits of BPD and told us to read Stop Walking on Eggshells. I've read it and its newer addition The Essential Family Guide and holy cow, my mind is being blown away! I think my husband's dad was likely also BPD, in addition to his mom and his ex-wife. I'm so scared and feel helpless while wanting to help him navigate all of this.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi sewconfused and welcome! 

You've come to the right place! We are a huge online family dealing with the struggles of having a pwBPD in our lives. You'll want to be sure and meet Panda39 who has stepchildren and their mom is BPD-similar situation. Like you she is here to help her step kids navigate the waters of turbulence.

I'm very glad you are in T and that you've read the books you mentioned.   It sounds as if you feel overwhelmed, and that's understandable. We have lots of information here to help you, plus I'd encourage you to read other posts and respond, sharing your thoughts and experiences, asking whatever questions you may have.

Is there any particular question you have right now?

 
Wools

[sewconfused]

Thank you woolspinner2000. We've actually been able to deal with the ex-wife pretty successfully. It's my mother-in-law that we are now realizing is exhibiting traits of BPD and is possibly BPD. My husband is struggling with what to do and I think he's also scared of losing his relationship with his mother. We do have a counselor, he is the one who identified the BPD. I'm the one being attacked and I'm scared because I know my mother-in-law knows and is trying to exploit my husband's insecurities as a result of his relationship with the ex-wife by projecting her traits on me. I feel like my situation is very unique and I'm hoping someone else out there can identify.

Weird question off topic, but are you a knitter?

[Panda39]

Hi sewconfused & woolspinner,

I'm cracking up because we have a sewer and a spinner and I have a Bachelor of Fine Arts in textiles (these days I'm mostly quilting)... .we could totally hang out and probably blow way too much money at the craft/fabric/yarn store!

sewconfused, I'm so glad you've found us this is a great place to learn more about BPD, get support, information and tools.  I may not have your exact unique situation but I have a piece of it, like Wools mentioned I am part of a blended family.  My significant other (SO) has an undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw) and they have 2 daughters.  Wools, has another piece of the puzzle is the child of a BPD parent, and we have other members with BPDmother in laws etc. 

It was incredibly surprising to me how similar our stories are.

Fear of abandonment is at the heart of BPD my guess is that your mother in law (MIL) is jealous of you because in her mind you come between her and her son.  There is a lot of black and white thinking when it comes to people with BPD (pwBPD).  In her mind her son can only love her or you, she is unable to see that he can love you and her.

Is your husband able to recognize what his mom is up to?  It might be more difficult for him since he has been raised by a dysfunctional mom... .the dysfunction might seem "normal" to him.  My guess it that because you come at it from an outside perspective you can more easily see what's going on.  It's excellent that you have a Counselor that can help you all navigate this, now you have us too!

How often is your family interacting with your MIL?  Does she live nearby?  Have you tried setting any boundaries with his mom?  When she is projecting (dare I say bad mouthing you) is this when you are there or only to your husband?  Is this in person or phone/text?  Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get more of an idea of what your situation looks like.

Would your husband consider joining us too?  My SO and I are both members, this site really helped us develop a common language and strategy in terms of his ex, and issues surrounding his ex and the kids.  A united front with you and your husband will be key.
 
I also want to point out the box to the right --> each item is a link to more information you might want to check out the "Lessons" section when you have time. 

Panda39

[Woolspinner2000]

  Weird question off topic, but are you a knitter?

Not a weird question at all when you see my name of course!   Yes, a knitter and a spinner. Happy sighs... ahh!   And we really did have llamas.

Yes, you do have a unique situation, but the behavior you are describing is not unique but instead is very common for someone with BPD. From what you've shared, your MIL is doing her best to not be abandoned by her son who now has his attention to you instead of her. That's probably why she is taking it out on you. It has nothing to do with you, but everything to do with her perceived feelings of abandonment and rejection because her son is not focusing on her.

Does that make sense?

Here are a couple links that may be helpful:
Projection

Extinction Bursts

Glad you are here!
Wools

[sewconfused]

Thank you for making me smile. I really needed that. Yes, I'm a sewer, but also a knitter and my stash is ridiculous.

So let me explain a bit further and it will make more sense and put things into clearer perspective.

My husband and I have been together for 7 years. I've thought all these years that the ex-wife was bipolar/narcissistic, but realize after reading SWOE that she is more likely BPD with elements of the other two. She is not really a problem at this point. My husband has always had custody of his two boys and the courts granted her "limited" visitation. When she lived in town she got them every other weekend, alternating holidays and one week in the summer. Long before I met my husband he, with the help of his attorney, established a communication boundary so they have not communicated verbally since 2010. They only communicate via email and sometimes text. So that has been good because it has eliminated a lot of potential manipulation, but we did deal with a lot of splitting-shame-fear spirals. Four years ago we discovered she had committed child support fraud and pursued having that rectified through the courts. Her response was to enter into a love relationship with a man out-of-state and moved out of state. So we have actually had three years of less conflict and peace. In this amount of time the boys have matured and have figured things out for themselves. However, she is moving back so to speak. She has convinced her new SO to buy her a house here so she can be more involved in her younger son's life. Even our son knows this is a load of crap. What she wants is a house and both boys expect her to eventually cheat on him, leave him and then get the house.

However, this piece is significant in that it is the fear trigger for the MIL. When my husband was married to his ex and living on her BPD roller coaster, my MIL was the constant stabilizing force in the life of him and his boys. She became enmeshed in their lives filling the role of mother, grandmother and even co-parent. When the ex was out of the picture she also played a MAJOR role in the legals battles with the ex. She kept her son financially afloat and paid for everything he and the boys needed. So the amount of obligation, duty and guilt my husband feels with regard to his mother is enormous. Add to that the fact that my MIL believes she has an unusually strong bond with the boys and that professes to love them more than life itself or anyone else in the world, including her husband and children.

Following the divorce and during the court battles over the details of a parenting plan, my husband had a couple of long distance relationships. Until he met me and a year later I actually moved to the same town he lived. The stress and strain of the long drawn out parenting plan process coupled with my MIL's BPD traits, i.e. talking her son to death about what she thought he should or shouldn't do, had taken an incredible toll on their relationship to the point that he avoided her, didn't want to take her calls etc. She took to emailing him so we have several emails from the period of time when I was moving to the same town and now in retrospect we can see the fear she had of my replacing her or at the very least her losing her position of control over what was happening with the boys, not so much my husband. In fact in one of her emails she told my husband that his happiness did not matter, that he must put the boys first and finish raising them before he could have anything he wanted. Even at that time she attempted to take advantage of my husband's insecurities by projecting traits of the ex-wife onto me.

It didn't work and I not only moved in but we partnered in a home based business so we spend 24/7 together. Sometimes we feel like we have been married 20 years even though we have only been together 7 years. So much as transpired and we have already weathered storms that would have destroyed other relationships. Most couples would have been sunk with the stress created by the ex-wife alone and continuing legal costs of dealing with her.

Like I said my MIL was enmeshed in the life of her son and his children so much so that she would call every morning to see how the boys were. What they had done the night before, what they ate, did they watch a movie, which one? She kept a diary of their "everyday lives" so that in the event they had to go back into court she had proof of what their life was like with their father for a judge or GAL to read. She had and kept notebooks of every correspondence between my husband and his ex-wife. She actually drafted and wrote any and all correspondence between him and his ex because she was convinced that he was incapable of doing it himself. Now to be fair here I do believe that not recognizing that he was dealing with an undiagnosed BPDex, he did struggle with communicating clearly and enforcing boundaries. He is the most kind and compassionate person, avoids confrontation and always gives the benefit of the doubt sometimes to his own detriment. But now that I understand this disorder, I can see how the unusual circumstances coupled with an undiagnosed BPD parent (exMIL) vs a undiagnosed BPDex-wife created an even more dysfunctional situation!

Without realizing what was happening or that I was actually enabling the dysfunction, I stepped in and became the go-between for my husband and his BPDmom. For the past 6 years I have talked to her almost every morning to give her what I jokingly called the "morning report". I text or called her every night to update on the boys' day. At one point I even started keeping the journal about the boys' life myself! Whenever there was a parenting challenge with the boys, primarily the younger one, I discussed it with her and then "carried her message", thoughts, opinion etc to my husband.

Along the way there have been plenty of red flags and warning signs, but I missed all of them. Over the past six years she and I formed, what I thought, was a strong bond of trust. She never spoke an ill word about me, praising me and my devotion to her son and the boys. Praising all my creative talents, asking me to teach her to knit and sew. She willingly let go of being a part of all the legal stuff with the ex-wife, putting me in charge of all of it even professing to finding comfort in the fact that I would be in the meetings or the courtroom. She and I shared the bond of wanting to vindicate my husband of all the lies the ex-wife had spread about him and we worked very hard together to protect him from the ex-wife's efforts to undermine him and his parenting of the boys.

We found out in early May that the ex-wife was buying a house in town, had gotten her old job back and was going to be spending more time here supposedly to be closer to the younger son. It is an understatement to say that both my MIL and my husband have been hitting the panic button ever since (the MIL more than my husband). UNTIL school let out and the youngest son (age 15) did what every other teenage boy in American seems to have done this summer and retreated to his room, began sleeping all day and playing Fortnight and other video games all night. They both freaked out and were convinced that he was pulling away from his father and would eventually decide to go live with his mom. And that's a very oversimplified version of the entire circumstance, but dad and son began having tension and conflict and wound up going to see our family counselor. During the session for the first time in 6 years my stepson threw me under the bus, blaming everything on me. If it weren't for me his dad wouldn't be parenting him the way he is. He didn't hang out with us anymore because he doesn't feel welcome. He's decided he's a Trump supporter and we aren't so he can't talk to us about politics. He would really like to watch TV or a movie with us but I turned out living and dining room into my sewing room and there was not couch anymore, that's why he was always in his room. I say negative things about his mom and make him feel bad. And so on and so on.

My husband for the first time in a long, long time communicated all of this directly to his mom and she slowly began moving me into the "bad" category. Now that I've read SWOE I realize that deep inside her she saw her opportunity to restore her position as her son's "direct partner" in parenting the boys. He was finally talking to her again and she no longer had to go to me to carry water for her to her son. And the splitting-shame-fear spiral was in motion, slow at first, but in motion.

During this same time frame my youngest daughter was due to arrive for the summer. In all these years she has never had her own room for her summer visits and I really wanted to change that this year. Money was tight but we bought paint to repaint what was once the younger son's room and then gathered an eclectic mix of our garage sale and estate sale finds to make over a room for her. At the same time my MIL was pushing to redo the younger son's room in an attempt to thwart any effort of the ex-wife to entice him to live with her by doing up a nice room for him at her new house. It's important to point out here that the MIL has used her money to best the ex-wife by doing more for the boys than the ex-wife can. His room has been made over by the MIL 3 times in the past 5 years already. He had not asked to have his room done, in fact had said he liked it like it was and I had specifically asked her not to do anything at that time because it was diminish what we were doing for my daughter. My husband, who for obvious reasons has a difficult time telling her no, wouldn't tell her no and so she just showed up at the same time as my daughter's arrival, buckets of paint, tearing up our basement space and making it impossible to conduct our business for an entire week, just hell bent on redoing the room and demanding that everyone make it a priority. She's like a slave driver when she wants something done. She had her husband working day and night that week making shelves and more in his shop. My husband was busy painting etc. She took our son on a shopping spree for lamps, pillows, tables and more. You can imagine that my greatest fear was coming true. She completely overshadowed and diminished what we had done for my daughter.

Then her inevitable guilt set in because deep down she knew he didn't deserve having his room redone especially since he had not done well in school the last semester etc. And she touts to all the grandkids that she does everything equitably. So of course she had to do something for the older son. He began complaining that she was begging him to let her buy him something and one day he showed up and announced that she had bought him a $600+ violin. He doesn't even play the violin. Then a few days later we were celebrating my daughter's 17th birthday and she came up for dinner and gave her a card with $100 bill in it. Need I say more?

My daughter was very hurt and for the first time in all these years I saw things I hadn't seen before. Like the fact that the entire time she was at out house she was engrossed in the boys. Her conversations with them were focused on eliciting their gratitude for the room makeover or the purchase of the violin. She was doting on them to the point of making me nauseous. Recognizing that my daughter was struggling and hurt, I made a point of ignoring the dysfunctional behavior happening with my MIL and the boys and focused my efforts on making my daughter the center of my attention and that of others present. After all we were there to celebrate her!

My husband and I talked about all this and more over the next week. I confronted him with how dysfunctional all this was and not good for any of us. I also discovered that in some of his conversations with his mom she was projecting with regard to me and undermining his confidence in me and my credibility. She was clearly causing him to question my motives and my integrity. Eventually, before realizing what I was dealing with and because of the impending arrival of my sister-in-law and her family and a calendar full of family get togethers, I decided that I had to put this all to rest. She and I were not communicating at all, although she had sent me a text saying she missed me and hoped I was ok.

I typed up, what I thought was, a very clear email telling her how I felt, that I was hurt and so was my daughter, that I recognized now that I was not helping my husband's relationship with his mom by being their go-between and I told her that I believed I needed to set some boundaries for myself. I also told her that I believed her over involvement with the boys and inconsistencies with them were doing more harm than good and in many ways themselves were responsible for undermining her son's parenting. Basically I triggered every one of her deepest, darkest fears while also pointing out her failures. She completely went off the deep end and dove off head first into the splitting-shame-fear-spiral.

She refused to speak to me and allow me to explain anything. She called my husband and raged at him over the phone for over 2 hours, threatening to "expose" me, claiming to have proof that I am not who I say I am, telling him his marriage to me is over if not now within 5 years, uninviting me to all the upcoming family events and demanding that he make a choice her or me. She's obviously a high functioning BPD because she even told him to be careful because I would attempt to dispute everything she said and would have an explanation and/or excuse for all of it.

We went to see our family counselor right away and upon hearing what was going on immediately told us he believed we were dealing with BPD and suggested no contact until we had read SWOE and followed up with him in counseling. That's where we are now. I've read both books and I'm waiting to receive a copy of The Borderline Mother. My husband is afraid, afraid to read the books and find out he's got something wrong with him. He's afraid of what knowing will require him to do in order to set boundaries. I'm trying to give him space to come to terms at his own pace.

Things have been quiet these past couple of weeks, but I knew that as soon as my girls returned to college that all hell would break lose. He was convinced the quiet was the result of her cutting us off. I told him no, she's freaking out and as soon as the girls go home you will be bombarded. Sure enough they went home yesterday and within hours his brother and sister both called him saying his mom was freaking out, afraid he would never speak to her again and the we are turning the boys against her because neither have been in contact with her. The sad thing is that her relationship is so transactional that they have had nothing to connect with her about. They have NO CLUE anything is going on. My husband told his siblings we are getting counseling and he will not contact her until he has the tools to help the situation not make it worse.

We have our next appointment with our counselor on Friday and he has committed to reading the book before we go. He's also been better about talking about all of this with me, but I know it is breaking his heart and weighing heavy on him.

Other questions Panda39 asked: MIL lives one mile away. We have set a silent boundary... .we are not calling or texting and not updating on any family news. We've gone dark. She refuses to see me or talk to me so she's projecting about me to my husband over the phone.

Thank you for listening.

Sew Confused

[Panda39]

Hi sewconfused,

Thank you for sharing more of your story, lots going on!  Keep sewing and doing those things you enjoy... .self-care is really important.  You can't help anyone else if you're worn down.  

I've just celebrated my 8th Anniversay with my SO, and is uBPDxw is mostly out of the picture these days too, thank goodness you don't have to battle BPD on two fronts!

The behaviors you are describing in your story all sound very familiar, it's like there is a BPD playbook, everyone has their own particular "flavor" of BPD but the actions, behaviors and tools used by someone with BPD are consistent. And then we nonBPD folks also react in predictable ways, until we educate ourselves like you and your husband are doing now.  

You have either intuitively or with the help of your Therapist done some good things on your own.  Setting boundaries with your MIL is key and I'm seeing some of that in your story in particular, nice job  

What I'm seeing in your story... .

MIL - splitting (treating someone as all good or all bad... .you, the kids, your husband and his ex) black and white thinking, projection, boundary busting, over indulgent gifts with strings attached, controlling etc.    

Husband - trouble with boundaries (his mother has most likely conditioned him to have weak boundaries), living in what we call FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) or emotional blackmail, passive, being controlled.

You - Triangulation (Husband can't deal with mom so he pulls you in the middle), don't take this personally because most of us, myself included are guilty of this... .you are also trying to control (this is when we voluntarily jump on the triangle usually to rescue).

I'm going to post some links to more information on some of the things I've mentioned above.  I found that it really helped me to understand the dynamics of what was really going on behind the chaos and drama, and once I understood what was going on I was able to not take things as personally or get as emotionally triggerd.  Knowledge was key for me and I think that is what you are here looking for too, in addition to support, tools, a place to vent... .and a whole new group of crafters to hang out with!  

I'm throwing a lot of stuff out here there is no rush to get through it.

More on FOG... .
https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

More on the Karpman Triangle... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

More on Boundaries... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368.0

There are a lot of concepts and tools on our boards but the above to me are the most important.

Recognizing emotional blackmail (FOG) once you know it when you see it, it becomes less effective.

The Karpman Triangle... .am I on it and how do I get off (or move to the center of the triangle) this can help you recognize your own roll in the drama.

Boundaries - This one is a biggie, boundaries are for us for our own protection/happiness. To me boundaries are the biggest tool in the arsenal.



Have a read, some of this you probably know already but I hope I've been able to give you some new pieces to the puzzle. I'll be curious to hear what you think in relation to your own situation.

Take Care,
Panda39

[sewconfused]

We are on the struggle bus a bit with the educating ourselves. My husband is really having a hard time reading the book I think because he's afraid of the reality he will be forced to face. He's such a committed and loyal person to his core that I'm guessing he feels a bit like he's betraying his mom. I did read a portion from your message out lout to him yesterday about FOG and he repeated it verbatim later in the day, so I know what little I'm sharing in discussion, when he's open to it, is living on him.

My husband's long history of living with stressful situations and his ex-wife exhibiting traits of BPD have conditioned him to want to avoid conflict and he's pretty good at compartmentalizing. That said, it was really natural for him to immediately put up a boundary, more a wall of defense around himself and our family, by just shutting down communications. I think he also instinctively knows the letter his mom had delivered is just a "rage letter" filled with more of her irrational accusations aimed at taking advantage of his insecurities and weaknesses with the goal of undermining our relationship. So I'm glad he's not reading it and I've encouraged him to read it when we meet with our family counselor tomorrow if he decides to read it.

I followed the links you sent me and the Karpman Triangle was really helpful. I read about it in the books, but the details in the message boards really helped a lot. I can see that for the past 6 years my husband has been placed by my MIL and myself for that matter in the VICTIM role and she happily let me feel like I was partnering with her in the RESCUER role with the ex-wife in the PERSECUTOR role.

For the past several weeks I've jumped into being either in the VICTIM role or the RESCUER role, but realize now that I need to move to the middle.

Be caring, but don't overstep. We do not want to let our fears, obligation and guilt to control us or allow us to be manipulated into taking care of another person when it really isn't healthy to do so. Instead of being the Rescuer and doing the thinking, taking the lead, doing more than our share, doing more than is asked of us -  simply be a supportive, empathetic listener and provide reflection, coaching, and assistance if the person asks and is taking the lead themselves. It is important to recognize the other person as an equal (not one-down) and give the other person the respect of letting them take care of themselves, solve their own problems, and deal with their feelings as they choose. Remember, the rescuer has the most pivotal position on the drama triangle - you are in the strongest position, at least initially, to redirect the dynamic into healthy territory.

Sew Confused

[Harri]

Hi sew confused.  I am thinking you might need a name change because you do not sound confused to me at all!  The links Panda gave you are excellent and I am glad they made sense to you and you embraced them.

Advising your husband to read the letter tomorrow with the counselor is very wise. 

I think you are on the right track.   

[Panda39]

We are on the struggle bus a bit with the educating ourselves. My husband is really having a hard time reading the book I think because he's afraid of the reality he will be forced to face. He's such a committed and loyal person to his core that I'm guessing he feels a bit like he's betraying his mom. I did read a portion from your message out lout to him yesterday about FOG and he repeated it verbatim later in the day, so I know what little I'm sharing in discussion, when he's open to it, is living on him.

You both are going to learn this at your own pace, and yes it may be harder for him because he has to face some things about himself and the relationship he has with his mom (and maybe ex too).  He's been raised by a dysfunctional mom so some things he's spent a life-time doing/learning and they will take time to un-learn.  Once he starts making changes and you too, it can feel awkward and weird because it's new, and will take practice. Just have an awareness that he is coming from a different place than you are... .have patience with him 

My husband's long history of living with stressful situations and his ex-wife exhibiting traits of BPD have conditioned him to want to avoid conflict and he's pretty good at compartmentalizing.

If you read the "Relationship Boards" you will see that this is a common pairing: conflict avoidant, nice, polite, very caring (care-taker), fixer and someone with BPD.  All of those nice qualities get leveraged against you through emotional blackmail. (He has the added bonus of most likely being conditioned by his mother to struggle with boundaries)

That said, it was really natural for him to immediately put up a boundary, more a wall of defense around himself and our family, by just shutting down communications.

[/quote]

This is good, boundaries are about protecting ourselves.  But what I see here is he's got the 2 ends of the spectrum covered... .No Boundaries or No Contact.  There is a lot you can try in between those two places.

I followed the links you sent me and the Karpman Triangle was really helpful. I read about it in the books, but the details in the message boards really helped a lot. I can see that for the past 6 years my husband has been placed by my MIL and myself for that matter in the VICTIM role and she happily let me feel like I was partnering with her in the RESCUER role with the ex-wife in the PERSECUTOR role.

For the past several weeks I've jumped into being either in the VICTIM role or the RESCUER role, but realize now that I need to move to the middle.

And depending on your point of view, everyone is rolling around the triangle.

Your MIL might see it this way... .she's the Victim, you're the Persecutor, and her son is the Rescuer

To your Husband... .You're the Victim, mom's the Persecutor and he's the Rescuer or He's the Victim, mom's the Persecutor and you're the Rescuer

And round and round we go. 

The Triangle dynamic may also be a good topic of discussion when you see your counselor too.  I like the idea of having your husband read mom's letter when you meet... .have that support ready and right there!

What are your goals with therapy?

Panda39

[sewconfused]

I am thinking you might need a name change because you do not sound confused to me at all!

Thanks Harri, normally I am a very grounded, self-assured person but this situation has certainly messed with my sense of self. I'm also working very hard to not come across as sounding like I have all the answers or know it all because my MIL has already put the thought in my husband's mind that I am the one who is controlling, never listens to him, thinks I know it all etc.

I realize now that what she was doing was projecting but I have to be conscientious of the fact that my husband has been living in this type of dysfunctional relationship and has his own triggers of insecurity along with a belief that he doesn't make good decisions and that is why he needs to rely on my MIL to help him make good decisions (pertaining to his kids and relationships).

Patience... .I have to exercise patience and my faith in God that ultimately He has got this all under control and has a greater purpose for all of this.

Thanks for the encouraging words.

 

[sewconfused]

I believe you are spot on Panda39. It's hard for me to let him take this in at his own pace, but I know that's what has to happen. The boundaries right now, while not perfect, are allowing us to navigate through the onslaught of information and will help give him an opportunity to accept the gravity of what we are dealing with. The added bonus that I see is that our life just got so much simpler and it's OUR LIFE. Without going into detail we have had a couple of additional stresses come up with the boys and we have successfully navigated them without my husband feeling the need to "run anything by" the MIL. That's HUGE! And better yet, he's confident he made the right decision and everything is going just fine with the boys.

I definitely see the rolling around the triangle! Holy cow! And you were right about that too in terms of the roles and you read my mind regarding discussing it with the counselor. Already copying and printing out some stuff to take with me. 

Personally I don't think he should read the letter at all because I think he's way too vulnerable at this point. I think he needs to finish reading the book and a few counseling sessions before he reads that letter. He says his inclination is to burn it.

My goal for the session tomorrow is for him to realize how important it is for him to get the tools he needs and hopefully have him open up more to the counselor about how he's feeling. He's having a hard time voicing what's going on inside and I know that's not good for him.

[Panda39]

I believe you are spot on Panda39. It's hard for me to let him take this in at his own pace, but I know that's what has to happen. The boundaries right now, while not perfect, are allowing us to navigate through the onslaught of information and will help give him an opportunity to accept the gravity of what we are dealing with.

I think you guys are definitely on the right track.  (Patiently) Let your husband get up to speed it's a process that will take time.  It's like you know calculus and he is learning multiplication it will take time for him to get where you are, because you were taught skills that he has not been or he was taught to do them incorrectly.

The added bonus that I see is that our life just got so much simpler and it's OUR LIFE. Without going into detail we have had a couple of additional stresses come up with the boys and we have successfully navigated them without my husband feeling the need to "run anything by" the MIL. That's HUGE! And better yet, he's confident he made the right decision and everything is going just fine with the boys.

You are experiencing the effects of having boundaries! 

Personally I don't think he should read the letter at all because I think he's way too vulnerable at this point. I think he needs to finish reading the book and a few counseling sessions before he reads that letter. He says his inclination is to burn it.

I like it, the ritual burning of the toxic letter... .very therapeutic 

My goal for the session tomorrow is for him to realize how important it is for him to get the tools he needs and hopefully have him open up more to the counselor about how he's feeling. He's having a hard time voicing what's going on inside and I know that's not good for him.

How did it go?

Panda39

[sewconfused]

Well Panda39 the wheels completely came off as we were walking in the door. I was in tears, my husband was in a complete shear panic.

I spent the afternoon reading through links on this site and taking notes on PROJECTION, EXTINCTION BURSTS and the KARPMAN TRIANGLE and it's a good thing I did because we experienced an extinction burst on our way to the counselor.

Our son was down at the MIL's house, the kids have no clue there is any problem. He was texting his dad and then me, but knowing it was not a good time to talk we both text him that we could not talk because we were in a "meeting". Now mind you, my husband told both his siblings who contacted him earlier in the week that we were seeking counseling so I'm sure the MIL knows this.

Within 5 minutes of texting our son (while he was with the MIL) that we were "in a meeting", my husband got a call from his brother, who BTW suffers from severe depression is probably unBPD himself and is on medications, and his brother yelled at him on the phone saying only this, "If something happens to mom, I will spend the rest of my life destroying you and your life!" and then the brother hung up.

My husband absolutely went ashen and spiraled out. Thank God we were on our way to the counselor, but I'm halfway convinced that it was because the MIL knew we were headed there that she called the older brother in a panic and enlisted him to make that call. Doesn't matter, it was horrible!

The session actually went well, though. The counselor told my husband, it's your mother who has opened Pandora's box, not your wife and whether you like it or not you have to take a look at what is in the box. He talked with him very candidly about my husband's fears. My husband admitted he's afraid to read the book because what if there is something wrong with him, and the counselor who has been counseling us with the parenting issues revolving around the EX told him straight that if he had any suspicion my husband or myself for that matter had any mental health issues, he would have told us already.

He validated me and what I've been doing, encouraged me to be supportive and let the splitting and projection happening from the MIL to pass through me. He called my husband out on the absurdity of what his mother was accusing me of and validated us as a couple and parents.

He challenged my husband to read the letter but to also let it pass through him, but take a highlighter and look for an mark all the attempts to manipulate or coerce him and then bring the letter to the next appointment. He validated his need to contact his mother to at least let her know he's not cutting off his relationship with her permanently, but also told him you need to put you and your needs first. He told him he has a right to communicate so that he is heard and not just walking into another RAGE.

I could tell he felt better when we left and later that evening he sent her a very nice email. I told him to use "I" statements, I love you, but I'm working on me right now. It was well received with a response this morning stating that she is too "broken" to respond right now but she just wants him to put his sons first. Interestingly enough she used some of the same phrases about him spending time with the boys and putting them first that she used in a 2012 email I found and printed for him to see where she was opposing us moving in together because she believed we would not put the boys first.

Today is the first day my husband has willingly brought up this subject and been open to hearing what I've read and learned and discussing how we move forward. We spent most of the day in the car driving an hour and a half each way to buy a car for our son and also going to a few garage sales and my husband was relaxed and openly talking about his feelings, being honest about the dysfunction he sees in his family and particularly in his mother.

We also talked about how her undermining efforts in our relationship has robbed us of the closeness and ease we shared with one another and how we both want to get that back.

Several days ago I reached out to one of his best friends who was there for him post his divorce and knows us well, but lives further away now making it logistically challenging to hang out. I told him that my husband really needs a friend right now and particularly one he can trust implicitly. I told him I was not at liberty to discuss the what and the why, but that if my husband wanted to he would. We have been invited out to their place tomorrow and when they invited my husband instinctively knew I must I called them or text them. I admitted I had and he simply said, "Thank you." 

I think it will be good for both of us. I know we can weather this, together.

[Panda39]

A rough start, but it sounds like a very positive session.  Your husband's ability to talk about his fear is really good, certainly not easy for him, brave in fact, and is a step forward on his part for sure.  Progress 

He is not alone in his fear, I can't tell you how many members have come here asking the very same question.  Do I have BPD too?  The asking of the question itself shows a self-awareness that you won't likely find with someone with BPD.

He challenged my husband to read the letter but to also let it pass through him, but take a highlighter and look for an mark all the attempts to manipulate or coerce him and then bring the letter to the next appointment.

I think this is a brilliant idea!  It's like a BPD behavior quiz. Learning to recognize the behaviors is key to being able to respond in a more effective way.  Reading here is exactly how I've learned to recognize things. (but it wasn't a true quiz though... .other members farther along in their education would give me the answers  )

... .a response this morning stating that she is too "broken" to respond right now but she just wants him to put his sons first.

She's the victim, she's "broken", it's about her    Your Husband's problems can't be as bad as hers... .(focus on me! take care of me!)  Then, stop taking care of yourself (stop trying to get healthy because I like the old dynamic) and put your son's first.  The son's she has used to gain access and control of your husband... .Wow.

Interestingly enough she used some of the same phrases about him spending time with the boys and putting them first that she used in a 2012 email I found and printed for him to see where she was opposing us moving in together because she believed we would not put the boys first.

I have been with my SO for 8 years and his ex does the very same thing... .wash, rinse, repeat.  I see her as developmentally stuck at about 13, it's like she doesn't learn anything new so she just goes back to her tried and true behaviors and yes even the same vocabulary.

Sounds like the two of you had a nice day spending time together re-connecting, that is always a good thing.  I love that you reached out to his friend (Hubby is lucky he has such an awesome wife!).

I hope you have a great time on your visit.

Panda39

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi sewconfused,

You both have certainly been on an emotional roller coaster recently! Many great learning moments for sure.   Be sure and take time for the two of you where you just enjoy spending positive time together without having to talk about BPD. It can be so taxing as you know, and that's why I want you both to be patient and kind with yourselves and each other as you grow and learn.

 
Wools

[sewconfused]

I've stayed away from the board just to try to give my husband some space to navigate his feelings and hopefully come around to understanding that he needs to educate himself on what he is dealing with regarding his mom.

I sent him off to the next counseling appointment on his own because I really felt that he needed to be able to share anything he wanted and say anything he wanted to the counselor without me there. He says the session was good and just based on the little he has shared with me they talked a lot about the long history of dealing with BP's (ex-wife, mom). He also came back and shared with me how frustrated he felt that my way of dealing with the situation was to read and try to find out all I can about BPD while he can't even seem to bring himself to read anything. He said he feels like the whole thing is quick sand and if he even dips his toe in it, it will suck him in and he will drown.

So I've been trying to not be in his face with how I need to deal with the situation. I read Understanding the Borderline Mother, but only when he wasn't around and I've intentionally stayed off this site in order to give him space. However, that is making me feel isolated and alone and I told him that the other day. I should also note here that over this same period of time I have been dealing with some health issues and on Tuesday will find out definitively if I have endometrial cancer or not. Regardless I was scheduled last week to have a hysterectomy later this month. So you can imagine that all of this additional stress is not helpful. Not only is there already a wedge between my husband and I because of his mother and her attempt to undermine our relationship through her defamation campaign against me with him and his siblings, but there is this heaviness hanging over us.

Additionally, one day my FIL showed up at our house in the middle of the day looking for my husband and told my him that his brother had gone off the deep end. Reason: They had discovered his grown step-son (who has been living with them since his divorce) was doing meth and cocaine and the ex-wife (an attorney) had found out and had a restraining order put into place to keep him away from their kids. Supposedly, my SIL had left and was blaming my BIL for all her son’s problems. According to my FIL my husband’s brother was driving around town somewhere threatening to take a gun and kill his ex-DIL and they wanted my husband to come help them find him! Now this is the same guy who called my husband the week before threatening to ruin his life if something bad happened to the nBP mom! Seriously you can’t make this stuff up.

My husband told his step-dad, sorry, I can’t help you. This is not my problem nor is it my responsibility. Plus after what happened the previous week I think I’m the last person my brother wants to see or have anything to do with especially if he really is as delusional as you are describing. Minutes after my FIL left, my husband called him mom and told her the same. Her response was a thick laying on of guilt, “Well I’m sorry to bother you, of course you can’t help.” That was the first time my husband had any communication with his mom since the end of July and the last time. The counselor told him to communicate normal everyday things (like about the kids) to her by text if he felt it was appropriate, and he has, but she doesn’t respond.

Stay with me while I share another piece that I promise will be relevant. Our younger son just bought his first car. A decent old people owned car for $1,000 despite our encouragement to keep saving and buy a $3-4,000 car. Of course as soon as he got it we discovered it needs about $2000 worth of work and new tires, so we worked out a deal with him to help him get all that done.

He left here Friday night to spend the night with a friend and yesterday he pulled in our driveway driving my MIL’s car? So I asked him why and he said because his car was being worked on by the crazy meth head step-son of my BIL! What the hell? Mind you our son knows none of what has been going on partly because my MIL threatened us if we told him there were any relationship problems between her and us.

So I’m totally confused, last week this guy was a meth-cocaine addict whose wife had a restraining order taken out on him and this week my MIL has enlisted him to work on our son’s car? Oh and as if that’s not enough crazy, our son announces that he’s heading out to spend the night at my MIL’s house because she and my husband’s brother (yes the one who threatened him) his wife (yep the one who left him last week) my FIL and our son’s cousin are heading out to go fishing and upland bird hunting today! I about hit the roof! Ok, I did hit the roof!

After our son left I told him husband, you are nuts if you are going to continue to ignore what is happening here. Your mother is actively working to undermine your relationship with your son. She has taken it upon herself to get his car fixed because she wants him beholden to her and not come to use when he needs something.

Red flags are going off like firecrackers for me and I’m just praying my husband will pick up the clue phone and do something, anything! If he would just stop ignoring the problem and make an effort no matter how scary to understand what he is dealing with! He needs more counseling/therapy and he needs to read these books so he understands and has some real tools for how to deal with this stuff effectively.

I’m at my wits end!

[Panda39]

Hi sewconfused,

I'm glad you decided to post, I'm sorry you are experiencing so much drama from all quarters.  Did anyone call the police on the BIL?  That sounded really dangerous.

I hear you about your MIL and gifts with strings attached, I see this with my SO's daughter and their uBPDmom too.

I think it was a good move to send your husband to the counseling appointment on his own, I think it's good that he has a place where he can talk about his feelings. He clearly isn't where you are yet but he is still participating and working both are good things.  Based on what you describe he has a lot of dysfunction all the way around, I get how taking it all on would feel overwhelming.  I'll be interested to hear how the counselor suggests he proceed.  Maybe break things down into smaller pieces some how.

I've stayed away from the board just to try to give my husband some space to navigate his feelings and hopefully come around to understanding that he needs to educate himself on what he is dealing with regarding his mom.

He also came back and shared with me how frustrated he felt that my way of dealing with the situation was to read and try to find out all I can about BPD while he can't even seem to bring himself to read anything.

I think just like you are not interfering in your husband's process, you should be able to process things without interference from him.

I don't know if it is intentional but there seems to be subtle pressure from your husband to stop bucking the system (dysfunction) and then there is the more blatant stuff (badmouthing) pressure from your MIL.  His family is comfortable in the dysfunction, it works for them, it's easier to go along to get along.  You are challenging long standing behaviors.

I encourage you to come here and post I think it is a good outlet for you.  You don't need to share your discussions with your husband if it makes him uncomfortable.  I'm not saying that you hide your visits here, only that you don't need to share information with him until he is ready and asks. 

Hang in there, 
Panda39

[Panda39]

Hi Sewconfused,

It's been awhile just checking in on you.  How are things going?

Panda39

[sewconfused]

Hi Panda39!

I think just like you are not interfering in your husband's process, you should be able to process things without interference from him.

I don't know if it is intentional but there seems to be subtle pressure from your husband to stop bucking the system (dysfunction) and then there is the more blatant stuff (badmouthing) pressure from your MIL.  His family is comfortable in the dysfunction, it works for them, it's easier to go along to get along.  You are challenging long standing behaviors.

You are so right and we have talked about that. We are giving each other permission and space to deal with this in our own ways. He has become much more willing to talk about it and read out of necessity of the continuing circumstances.

And we have also discussed at length the dysfunction that exists in her relationships with his siblings, what the emotional payoffs are in the dynamics etc. The difference between them and my husband is the situation with my husband's ex-wife and the circumstantial necessity with his children that created the enmeshment of his mother in his life and that of his sons. We recognize and my husband can now talk about his mother's fear of me is that I replace her with the boys and with my husband. I am an existential threat to her position as a surrogate mother to the boys, which fed a need in her to make up for her failures as a mother. I believe she also needs to be everyone's savior in order to deal with her own shame for how she feels she didn't measure up as a mom. She's very heavily financially involved with all her children, bailing them out of crises time and time again as well as doing extravagant things for them now in contrast to when they were children and hardly had enough food to eat. And in turn they live in a FOG.

More has happened since I last posted. The very next day our younger son revealed that he had witnessed an uncontrolled outburst by my MIL. The one that I suspected happened the day we were on our way to counseling. My step-son was there at her house and had text both my husband and I wanting us to bring something to him, but we were not at home. We were on our way to the counseling session. We both separately text him that we could not talk at that moment because we were in a meeting. He conveyed this to my MIL and she sent him outside her house then proceeded to explode. Our son said he could see her through the front window pick up two potted plants and throw them against the wall breaking them. Then she disappeared into the kitchen and came back with a big knife and was waving it around screaming at my FIL, pacing back and forth. Our son couldn’t hear what was being said exactly. Then he said she came flying out of the house, knife in hand, got in her car and drove off. He said that my FIL then called her oldest son and told him what had happened. That is what precipitated his call to my husband threatening to ruin his life if something happened to their mother.

We were also floored to learn from our son that she later told him there was a rift between her and I and also told him about the email I sent her (boundary email before I realized what I was dealing with). Our son was feeling so torn and upset he said he felt like he no longer had a home with us and was considering the option of living with his grandmother…and she was encouraging the idea. My husband could no longer ignore the extent his mother is willing to go in order to be in control, manipulate etc.

I followed the advice of our counselor who had told us as long as she didn’t involve the children, we would not say anything to them about their being a problem, but if she violated that then we would talk to them about it. We did so carefully and treading lightly, i.e. not talking about or identifying BPD specifically. We simply said that my email had triggered something deep inside her that she was having an irrational and over the top response to. By the end of the conversation he felt better and said he didn’t want to go anywhere but also didn’t want her talking to her about this stuff. We agreed and encouraged him to tell her the next time that he loves her but doesn’t want to hear about drama she has with any other family member, period.

I decided to deploy the DISTRACT - DELAY tactic from the BPD Family Guide and sent a brief email to my MIL apologizing for hurting her feelings, telling her that her son loves her but that there is so much more going on than just this issue. I told her that I have health issues requiring surgery this month and that cancer is a possibility and we just need some privacy and space right now. All this is true. I also copied my husband’s siblings on the email in hopes that they may intervene and to eliminate her ability to isolate the other family members and tell everyone something different. It seems to have worked because she replied to me saying sorry you’re sick, but she is still "waiting to be heard.”

My husband and I collectively took a deep breath and viewed the email and response as a white flag being waved on a battle field for the time being. He met again with the counselor and told him honestly he’s not inclined to deal with her at this time. He feels overwhelmed and just wants to be left alone. He has read parts of Understanding the Borderline Mother and has begun reading the tool box in the Family Guide. It’s difficult for him though.

Yesterday she text my husband about our son. The jist of the text implied my husband is out of touch and therefore needed to know something our son was planning to participate in and therefore would need us to buy him something. To my husband’s credit, he saw right through the premise of the communication and knew instinctively that his son didn’t want to attend this event, he was likely being manipulated into it by her. And by day’s end, he was right.

He politely replied, thanking her for the information and assuring her we were aware of the event and had the potential need covered should he decide to attend. Then she replied and offered to meet with my husband if he wanted to talk about any future relationship with her and his step-dad. She offered to even meet with him with his counselor as a “witness”. ?

That sparked a conversation between my husband and myself about what he wants out of the relationship, what he wants to say etc. He was immediately stressed and anxious and within 15 minutes of beginning to delve into that he had a headache. He said he wants to do what he can to establish a “surface” relationship with his mom. He wants her to butt out of his life in terms of his parenting, our relationship etc. He wants her to stop throwing money and stuff at our younger son in an attempt to outdo the ex-wife. And he wants to tell her that any relationship with him has to include me and my daughters.

I think his expectations and his understanding of what would be good for HIM is a really good start, but I don’t think he’s ready to meet with her face-to-face. He was thinking of just going to her house and letting her “speak her mind” and not reply in any way. He was thinking that way he would at least know what she is thinking. I countered that he already knows what’s she thinking after her 2 hour rant almost 6 weeks ago. And frankly her actions over the past month has reinforced what she said that day. He agreed and said he can’t even stand the thought of enduring that again.

I asked him to consider continuing through the toolbox this week and then sending her a thoughtful, carefully worded letter/email responding to what she said previously and her actions over the past 6 weeks. Using “I” statements, assuring her he loves her, establishing some boundaries and stating his non-negotiables but also asserting his right to make these decisions as a grown man.

I'm giving him time to think about what he wants and needs to say and how to best execute it. In the meantime we are more focused on self care and preparing for me to have major surgery later this month. We're overcoming the wedge she attempted to put between us and that is really helping both of us.

We've opened up to some friends about what is going on and have a support group around us giving my husband some more unbiased view points. It's good.  And things are better with our son. I'm making a point to quietly parent in the background and encouraging my husband to spend more purposeful time with our son, no heavy talks, lecturing etc, but we are also not going to be manipulated by him using this situation to take advantage of us and our expectations for accountability etc.

I appreciate so much having this place to come to and share. Thank you for your encouragement and advise.

Sew "Not" Confused - just taking one day at a time.  

[Panda39]

So much good news and progress in your post!  

The communication between you and your husband sounds wonderful, you are starting to create a united front which is terrific, both of these things along with the support of your friends are all awesome!

I'm sorry your son had to witness Grandma lose her mind, the knife thing was pretty scary and over the top, but that may not have necessarily been a bad thing... .a little dose of reality for him and his dad as well as a parenting opportunity for you and dad. Not calling out the BPD was a good idea, I would continue to focus on the behaviors and not the label.

Encouraging your son to set a boundary around what topics of conversation he would like to have with Grandma is great.  Boundaries to me are the number one tool when it comes to having someone with BPD in your life, teaching your son to have boundaries is really good.

I think your group "deflection" and truthful email was a brilliant idea.  The information is coming directly from you which will make it harder for her to make up her own narrative, and it also will shine a light on her if she tries and monkey business.

Based on the type of relationship your husband wants with his mom, boundaries will be key... .this will be a challenge for him because he has likely been raised not to have them when it comes to his mom.  I would just start small and build up.

I've pulled the Lessons section from the co-parenting board for you, it might be helpful in regard to your son in particular, but all the kids as they have both a BPD mom and BPD Grandma in the picture.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=182254.0  

Keep doing what you're doing!  You're right you are not sewconfused anymore  

I also wanted to wish you well with the surgery later this month, I'll be sending you good thoughts 

Panda39

[Harri]

Hi!  Thanks for the update.  I must say that while things escalated at your MILs end, you and your husband are handling things very well at your end.

I have nothing to add or suggest except to say stay the course.  You are doing very good work on top of being a great guide and support for your husband.

Nicely done!

[Learning2Thrive]

Mind you our son knows none of what has been going on partly because my MIL threatened us if we told him there were any relationship problems between her and us.

May I ask, what was the threat?

So sorry you and your husband are going through this.  Hang in there and keep posting.We’re here for you.

L2T

[Star0009]

As someone with a BPD/narcissist Mom/ and future mother in law with a personality disorder I recently figured out after living down the street from her for several years I understand. They will paint you black and white and no matter what you do you can't win. You can't let them know you are on to them. You can set boundaries but don't call them boundaries etc... I know for a fact pretty much my future mother in law wants us broken up even though we are on 'good terms' and her grown son living with her the rest of his life. We don't have kids. I couldn't imagine. I'm constantly seeking help but my Fiance knows his mother has issues but says he is not ready to face dealing with it. He has always shut down on me at times. He is nice as can be to his mom on the phone. His mom uses money and huge gifts to control him and is constantly inapproprately sexual with him buying him swimsuit issues, talking about her sex life etc... I wish he would go to therapy and start dealing with it because I get all the anger from him that she never sees. I also end up dealing with his Mom as much as him. Its good you are in therapy and your husband is with you but your post captured me because the whole time I'm asking like in my situation what is your husband doing? He is a grown man who needs to learn to deal with his mother on his own and set boundaries much like my guy. As far as your daughter is concerned I had adults treat me less than others as a kid but my BPD Mom used that to make me feel worse about myself and rub in that her bf's Mom was buying only my sister gifts etc... As someone who dealt with this lots as as a kid I just needed one loving adult in my life to protect me from abuse. Do not let your MIL in yr. daughters life and if she is in it at all protect her from the abuse by just being the most loving supportive mother you can be which it seems like you are. Kids don't need the most stuff as much as they need love and emotional support. I'm not a parent but from dealing with many unhealthy adults as a kid thats my advice.
P.S. So I wrote this before reading yr update but still thought it might be helpful. Thats totally what you have to do take the blame, keep things calm and keep yr distance. Thats great yr husband is making progress. I know how hard it can be to kinda drag yr man along to deal with this stuff but it sounds like he is really getting it on his own now. I'm glad things are better and hope you are in good health.

[Star0009]

Sorry I shouldn't have used the word 'drag'. Thats how I feel sometimes with my guy. The post won't let me edit it. It sounds like you are good at helping guide him in the right direction. I wish I could do this better with my situation but I feel like its an uphill battle with me.

[Libra]

Hello not sewconfused,

I come from a different angle, trying to come to terms with the unhealthy relationship I have (had) with my mother, and being supported by my DH.

I read your thread in one go this morning. I want to thank you for sharing your story. Many of the dynamics you describe between your MIL and your husband, and your MIL and her grandchildren have been eye opening.

I would also like to congratulate you and your husband on how you are dealing with this as a team, whilst still allowing each other the space to process at your own pace.

Personally, I have needed a lot of space and time these past months to sort out my own head and emotions. Even so, I always touched base with DH as soon as I was ready to vocalize something. He knows I have to work this out for myself, and I know I can turn to him if I need to talk.

Even though you have been inside the dynamics for 7 years, your view on the situation is still far more detached than that of your husband, who grew up in dysfunction and therefore probably cannot see it for what it is.

Good luck with the surgery, I will be thinking of you. 

Libra

[sewconfused]

Learning2Thrive,

When this all first started and she spent 2 hours on the phone raging at my husband, she threatened that if he told his two sons that there was a rift between her and I that she would destroy my relationship with the boys by convincing them of lots of things. It's important to understand that for the last six years she and I have partnered in combating the potential negative affects of the unBPD ex-wife and mom of the boys. She threatened to tell the boys that I have been working to drive a wedge between them and their mom, that I hate the youngest one because I think he is most like his mom, and that I have done things deliberately to attack their mother and make her miserable. She essentially projected all her personal feelings about the ex-wife onto me.

Does this make sense?

[Panda39]

Thanks Star and Libra for sharing your perspectives as a step-mom/some one not raised by a BPD Parent your points of view are so helpful in terms of helping the rest of us understand.  The better I understand, the more understanding I can be with my SO's daughters and sewconfused can be with her husband.

Panda39

[sewconfused]

Thanks Harri. I appreciate the vote of confidence and encouragement. I know that we just need to stay the course and my husband is also in agreement. I believe just having the distance has been really helpful in reducing his anxiety and stress and revealed how turbulent life with his mom enmeshed with ours has had a negative impact. Today I'm handling our home business alone so he can go hunting with a friend... .self-care of the best sort for him.

Star, thank you for your thoughts. You certainly are speaking from a place of first hand knowledge and I'm sorry you are going through a tough time with your fiancé'. Honestly, my husband and I have spoken openly lately about the fact that we are grateful this situation didn't evolve early in our relationship because we likely wouldn't have been able to deal with it. When we look back we can now see how it bubbled a bit, but for some reason she backed off of trying to come between us but we realize now it was because I stepped in as a go-between with her and my husband. What we didn't realize then and totally see now is that allowed her to continue controlling vicariously through me! It shocks me even now the look back through this new lens we have and realize how insidious it was in reality. However, since my husband and I work together in a home business we have spent 24/7 together for the last 6 years and therefore we have a very strong relationship and he has an even stronger more confident confidence in who I am, my heart, my motivation etc. They say actions speak louder than words and I believe ultimately that is what has given him the strength and clarity to see through her projections and defamation campaign. Thank God! I encourage you to let your actions speak louder than words. And do not fear, I absolutely have put an end to my daughters (all three of them) having anything to do with my MIL for the time being. Keep in mind she is a step-grandma so it's not hard. Although we have not discussed BPD with my step-sons, I have discussed it opening with my daughters so they are well aware of what is really going on and they listen to their mama. 

Libra, thank you so much. I'm sorry to ask but what is the abbreviation DH stand for?  My heart goes out to my husband because you are right, I am far more detached from the dysfunction. I also came from a very stable home where I never had to deal with anything like this. And I spent almost 20 years as a minister's wife which came with lots of on the job training dealing with dysfunctional and highly critical people AND I SURVIVED! I'm taking those lessons and putting them to work in this situation.

Finally, thanks to Panda39 for pointing me to the Lesson yesterday. I spent some time yesterday going through it and wrote done some things that I felt would resonate with my husband and shared them with him. Things like:

• Remember "no" is a complete sentence.
  Your family will act however they want and it has nothing to do with you.
  Remember everything you know about projection and scapegoating and put the responsibility for their reactions etc. on them.
  

There was more, but I won't duplicate it here. I was very gentle, my point only being to help him change the dialogue in his head. We also talked about the list of BPD behaviors and when I read the one about "Does your family gang up on you?" and "Do you have a family member who ruins special events etc." he was a bit dumbfounded and now realizes his older brother is very likely an unBPD with depression as well.

We walked away from our conversation agreeing that his anxiety is a totally normal response and it will lessen the more that he establishes his anonymity and sets boundaries. We need to limit our time with his family going forward. We are charting a new healthier course for our family and our future one of the benefits of which will be breaking this dysfunctional cycle. And we will do it on our own timeline and at our own pace... .period.

[Libra]

sewconfused,

No need to apologize. It stands for Dear Husband.
(FYI: if you click on Glossary in the green menu bar on the top of this screen, you will find an explanation for the most commonly used abbreviations on these boards.)

When I started to see the dynamics I was part of, I started questioning everything about my past, my current interactions, my sense of self. Having someone walking beside me, giving me the space and confidence to search for answers myself, but being there when I needed to check my own sanity and self-worth, was and is very important for my healing. (As is this board!)

We are charting a new healthier course for our family and our future one of the benefits of which will be breaking this dysfunctional cycle. And we will do it on our own timeline and at our own pace... .period.

Spoken like a true lioness, standing up for her pride! 

Thank you Panda39. I have learnt a lot from your contributions to these boards.
Your SOs' daughters are lucky to have a steady Panda walking beside them!

Libra