Trying to understand why my wife has filed the application for Decree Nisi

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I'm trying to mind read why my wife has had the application for Decree Nisi (the bit that actually goes to the court rather than petitioning for divorce) since the 18th June and despite me being away with the kids for the last 2 weeks on holiday and her being home alone she has not 'found the time' to put it in the post. It's signed and dated and just sitting in a file... .

She has not communicated this to me (it took her a week to inform me she had petitioned for divorce), I just know because I have 'found' the form.

I talked to T last night in an attempt to analyse what might her motivations be and came up with he following:
- She's scared of independence
- She's scared about her own mental health and becoming a lot more aware of what is going around her head, see's me as less chaotic now which is making her own chaos more visible
- OM isn't moving forward with his divorce very quickly therefore she doesn't want to let go of her safety net, she has the paper work on ice until she feels safe to act.

I don't believe she still harbors romantic feelings for me.

I'm not happy or sad about this revelation, I suppose it deviates from my expectations slightly but knowing what I know about pwBPD I'm not totally flabbergasted. It still leaves a lot of outcomes on my decision tree which again isn't good nor bad. I guess I just feel like it's yet another opportunity missed for her to create momentum towards AN OUTCOME. I'd like to know what if any plan there is and this window of her being able to focus on the D progressing leaves the door open for more 'surprises'.  

I'm still avoiding ANY fingerprints on the process such that she holds ALL responsibility for the actual divorce, which is something I ideally wouldn't prefer.

I would like to find out through friends and associates (not her directly... .FOG I know), but I've been down the route of trying to glean information from friends and have learnt painful lessons that it gets back to her (again... .FOG I know). So, I guess, the choices I have made leave me to have to sit with the uncertainty in full knowledge that I am prepared for all outcomes, but attempting to manage the least favorable (parental alienation and financial ruin) out of the equation as much as possible.

Any thoughts?

[Enabler]

I'm trying to mind read why my wife has had the application for Decree Nisi (the bit that actually goes to the court rather than petitioning for divorce) since the 18th June and despite me being away with the kids for the last 2 weeks on holiday and her being home alone she has not 'found the time' to put it in the post. It's signed and dated and just sitting in a file... .

She has not communicated this to me (it took her a week to inform me she had petitioned for divorce), I just know because I have 'found' the form.

I talked to T last night in an attempt to analyse what might her motivations be and came up with he following:
- She's scared of independence
- She's scared about her own mental health and becoming a lot more aware of what is going around her head, see's me as less chaotic now which is making her own chaos more visible
- OM isn't moving forward with his divorce very quickly therefore she doesn't want to let go of her safety net, she has the paper work on ice until she feels safe to act.

I don't believe she still harbors romantic feelings for me.

I'm not happy or sad about this revelation, I suppose it deviates from my expectations slightly but knowing what I know about pwBPD I'm not totally flabbergasted. It still leaves a lot of outcomes on my decision tree which again isn't good nor bad. I guess I just feel like it's yet another opportunity missed for her to create momentum towards AN OUTCOME. I'd like to know what if any plan there is and this window of her being able to focus on the D progressing leaves the door open for more 'surprises'.  

I'm still avoiding ANY fingerprints on the process such that she holds ALL responsibility for the actual divorce, which is something I ideally wouldn't prefer.

I would like to find out through friends and associates (not her directly... .FOG I know), but I've been down the route of trying to glean information from friends and have learnt painful lessons that it gets back to her (again... .FOG I know). So, I guess, the choices I have made leave me to have to sit with the uncertainty in full knowledge that I am prepared for all outcomes, but attempting to manage the least favorable (parental alienation and financial ruin) out of the equation as much as possible.

Any thoughts?

[formflier]

It could be a divorce threat bluff... that you have called.  I suspect that is most likely it.

The best bet in that case... .is to never bring it up. 

I would find out if there is a deadline for her (don't ask her).  Basically... if she doesn't send it back by XX date... .it's over or she has to start over.

I think you are playing this correctly... .let her own her decisions.  The frustrating part of this is that you are in the dark.  Or "partially in the light".

Honestly... .I bet you wish you didn't have the info you have... .right?

Trying to make sense of all the flying monkeys.  Tough stuff. 

Reality number 2.  She likely doesn't fully understand her decision either... or it shifts a lot.

FF

[Enabler]

Honestly... .I bet you wish you didn't have the info you have... .right?

It has certainly complicated things, however I think I would be dead from an anxiety attack not having the enigma machine at hand... .and you lot as guiding sense of sanity.

She's not massively into threats, she used to be. She does like control and I think having these ducks in a row make her feel a sense of control, and somewhat appease the flying monkeys whom are baying for blood. My T said last night that her recruits are likely waning, it's been a long time and they see little in the way of progress which doesn't match her NEED / abuse narrative. We also discussed how my detachment from her chaos i.e. I am no longer emotionally chaotic in response to her, and my lack of reaction further isolates her as the chaotic one. Whilst I was away she felt the need to "escape the village (maybe some conflict there) and the lonely house to camp and hike for a few days". She didn't run to company, I suspect she ran from conflict and or fear of abandonment in the family home. She freaked out last year when she came back from a trip whilst I was away on a holiday with the girls, claiming the house was haunted. That time she was soothed by contacting the OM.

I suspect the reality of her decisions are likely to be becoming apparent to her, and she's uncertain about it. She is doing a lot of religious reading about forgiveness... .her notes are confusing given she oscillates between suggesting she needs to forgive herself and forgive me. She certainly harbors a lot of guilt and personal shame.

What's more frustrating is that she won't engage me about ANY of it. Maybe because she fears that I can look deep into her soul now and she fears what I will shine a light on.

Or... .maybe none of the above... .

[formflier]

It has certainly complicated things, however I think I would be dead from an anxiety attack not having the enigma machine at hand... .and you lot as guiding sense of sanity.
 

I know what you mean.  Sometimes I'll "go looking" for more clues.

FF

[Enabler]

Looking for clues is okay. Being sceptical of the ‘evidence’ you find is paramount. I try and stay conscious of cognitive biases, especially confirmation bias

[Cat Familiar]

All the theories you've mentioned have potential. Perhaps it's just laziness.

When I filed for divorce from my "husband from hell" I put the whole matter on the back burner. There were a lot of other issues I was dealing with: business issues and my father's failing health. I was reluctant to even think about the division of property and the whole divorce proceedings just seemed daunting. At the time, I just needed to catch my breath.

So perhaps I could call this laziness or just a respite from feeling overwhelmed. Never for a moment was I unsure that I wanted the outcome that I had set in motion, I was just too tired to deal with it for several months--and then my ex got the worst pitbull of an attorney in town and went after me for support.

[Notwendy]

We also discussed how my detachment from her chaos i.e. I am no longer emotionally chaotic in response to her, and my lack of reaction further isolates her as the chaotic one.

Whilst I was away she felt the need to "escape the village (maybe some conflict there) and the lonely house to camp and hike for a few days". She didn't run to company, I suspect she ran from conflict and or fear of abandonment in the family home. She freaked out last year when she came back from a trip whilst I was away on a holiday with the girls, claiming the house was haunted. That time she was soothed by contacting the OM.

I suspect the reality of her decisions are likely to be becoming apparent to her, and she's uncertain about it.


I wanted to emphasize the change in you. This is the only part of this that you can control. I think it is significant - in a good way- that you are not participating in the chaos and not being emotionally reactive to her. This leaves her to her own emotions to deal with. There isn't drama here. It takes two for drama and you aren't part of it. Drama distracts her from dealing with her own feelings and now she has to deal with them.

I remember reading about affairs with married men at some point, probably in some magazine waiting for the dentist or something. It seems one of the themes is that- they may say they are going to leave their wives  but most of them don't. One speculation is that OM is benefiting from "someone on the side" but when it really comes down to it, has no intention of leaving his wife.

[Ltahoe]

I know, idk the full details of your situation. I feel like your W has been having an affair and wants a divorce. Two good points have been brought up, one maybe your W is preoccupied or doesn’t have the means to file for the divorce outright right now, and is waiting for a better time. Two maybe she says she wants a divorce, but really doesn’t. It could just be her reasoning to justify the affair, we were on the brink of divorce, our relationship sucks blah blah blah.

I see your fears trust me I do, divorce will effect you financially there’s no two ways around it. It does factor in my decisions sometimes too. Splitting up everything, support, etc. it’ll hit the wallet hard. Parental alliention a possibility but improbable if you really care, she can attempt it but if you stay active with court they’ll eventually see it, maybe not right away but eventually they’ll see the attempts.

I would say what do you really want? Are you willing to forgive your wife do you want it to work out or do you really want a Divorce because enough is enough? If it’s the later I’d say why don’t you take some proactive steps or actions if possible to speed up the process. I understand in some court proceedings once you’re the respondent you’re stuck being the respondent while the petitioner controls the proceedings. If she’s drafted documents and hasn’t officially filed can you become the petitioner or even find ways to file motions if you’re the respondent. If you’re truly worried about getting screwed, screw up her game. Taking a active stance will screw up her plans. You actually might be suprised if you so to speak can become active one in the proceeding. Allowing her to do this stuff on her terms would only increase the probabilities of what you fear, or her getting more of what she wants, Financial ruin and alienation. Guarantee if you start filing she’ll be so lost and confused. You already know throwing in the unknowns will effect the BPD(in this case effect anyone) it’ll force her to become on the defense or create chaotic behavior that will most likely become visible to the courts, her lawyer, your lawyer, mediators, etc.

Even if she has no intentions of divorce and you both find out that you want to work it out, taking the action may speed up the process of ending her affair. Either way she’s going to be dumbfounded if you take the proactive. One her divorce strategy on her terms ends, if she really wants this.  Two if she’s bluffing she realizes she crossed a limit and you’re not putting up with it any longer. Perhaps the pain of you filing for divorce would be enough for her to avoid that pain again in the future. Either way I feel being proactive will speed up your unknowns into known.

[Enabler]

Thanks all,

Cat - she is only lazy when she doesn't want to do something, she is very proactive when her heart is in something... .why her heart isn't in it or whether or not it's calculated I don't know.

Notwendy - I'll take that as a compliment, thank you. Re the OM, I have no idea about the progress in his divorce. Him and his wife live in separate houses so there is some degree of separation, that said she is part owner of his business for tax reasons so there are significant complications regarding buying her out or maintaining her holding in the business (which I doubt is appealing to him or his business partner). Maybe Mr Altruistic isn't so altruistic... .or maybe he's not a factor at all. Like you say, there is no drama other than some kind of silent one-man-band huffing away in the corner spitting venom.

Ltahoe - My intention is to stay in the marriage and sort things out if possible. That said I place a small probability on this and I consider it an ideal more than a focus... .my focus is avoiding bad. The UK court system isn't really about who's fault it is, and more just focused on getting it done. The whole thing can be done with no court appearance at all... .which is costly and I would prefer to avoid.

As far as I am concerned this is a Karpman Triangle game. She starts with me as the perpetrator and her as the victim (I apparently abused her), she has now adopted the perpetrator role and I failed to rescue her by helping her get the divorce... .had I have helped her get the divorce as a rescuer, I would have been slid across to the perpetrator role as the one who "made her" get a divorce, the divorce "she didn't want". By remaining central I am NOT adopting any of the bases and allowing 'it' to happen staying neutral. She has to adopt the perpetrator role and is not comfortable with it. She will no be able to transfer the guilt (easily) as my fingerprints will be nowhere near any paperwork nor will I obstruct other than to maintain a fair outcome. She is acutely aware of her own guilt, shame and fear. She wants me to adopt the perpetrator role and do her bidding... .mind reading again!

[formflier]

If you push it, can "fault" be brought into the process? 

I haven't the foggiest idea about UK courts, but I assume they are loosely close to the US system.  "Fault" is usually not pursued because parties want to move along quickly.

However, when one party has been egregiously harmed, such as yourself, there is usually a pathway.

FF

[SamwizeGamgee]

You may be onto something by considering the Karpman Triangle.  In my home life, once I became aware of the triangle, I saw it everywhere.  Awareness has kept me on better behavior, to be sure.
I can support you feeling confused and unsure about your W and what she wants. 
One thing I think of, as I compare to my life in which I am deciding to stay married to prevent parental alienation and a big financial hit, is whether you want to be passive.  My life changed as I decided to be more intentional.  I weighed out if I am I staying due to fear, or for a larger strategic reason.  HAaving a reason made things more bearable. 
Can I ask you to reflect on a few questions?
What is your intention? - you say you intend to stay marriage, but, you can only be half of that commitment.  You can't make her stay. What if you could make her stay married? 
You'd have a caged, unhappy wife who wants out.  (Ironically, that's what my wife has since I'd be gone in 60 seconds if the kids were not involved).
Should your wife be the only one deciding the future of your marriage?
How will you feel, and how long will you feel it, if and when your wife steers the marriage either to an endless waiting game, or a raging divorce?  Have you lost control of your life?
Overall, I would consider less what your wife's intentions are with leaving clues, and more with what you want and how to get there.

I sense I'm rambling, but, wanted most of all to post and support you - being stuck and wondering is not an enviable position to be in.  I know.

[Enabler]

If you push it, can "fault" be brought into the process? 

I haven't the foggiest idea about UK courts, but I assume they are loosely close to the US system.  "Fault" is usually not pursued because parties want to move along quickly.

There is no such thing as a "no fault" divorce in the UK, so it comes down to a matter of principal if I was to contest on the grounds of blame... .which seems a little futile if you ask me and contributory to drama... .and drama = cost. Fault has no baring on capital/income allocation, there is no compensation for cause.

Apparently the courts enquire what the state of play is if the decree absolute is not submitted a year after the decree nisi has been granted... .the current application she has to send off (takes 1.5 months to be granted after application).

[Enabler]

What is your intention? - you say you intend to stay marriage, but, you can only be half of that commitment.  You can't make her stay. What if you could make her stay married? 
You'd have a caged, unhappy wife who wants out.  (Ironically, that's what my wife has since I'd be gone in 60 seconds if the kids were not involved).

At the moment this is less about my wife and my marriage and more about managing outcomes. She has recruited a lot of support and some of these supporters have been with her for almost 3 years now. I believe that this support will question her motivations over time and no longer validate the invalid (which they have been so far). Without this validation she will be forced to either find new recruits which is tenuous, get a divorce and show action (outcome) or self reflect in some way shape or form. I could envisage a scenario where she runs from the cage leaving the cage (me and the kids).

Should your wife be the only one deciding the future of your marriage?

This isn't about should or fair... .

How will you feel, and how long will you feel it, if and when your wife steers the marriage either to an endless waiting game, or a raging divorce?  Have you lost control of your life?

I have chosen to stay, chosen to stand and therefore I would say I have complete control of my life. I have no control over certain things that might happen in my life, but then who does? Partners can leave at any point for any number of reasons. My primary focus is on avoiding the raging divorce and any adverse outcomes that come with that such as parental alienation.

[formflier]

  Fault has no baring on capital/income allocation, there is no compensation for cause.
 

This seems hard to understand?

So... to be clear, in the UK you can have a "perfect" spouse and a "abusive" (even felonious) spouse and the courts don't care?  They split the money evenly... no matter what deception, criminal or otherwise, is involved?

I don't doubt for a second that proving fault would add expense and time. 


FF

[Ltahoe]

I can see you are stuck. If you grant her a divorce you’ll be giving her what she says she wants, but at some point she’ll see you as bad for being willing to abandoned her. Or you keep doing what you’re doing at the expense of your emotions and heart, to her you don’t care enough so you’re letting her go in that case too. Maybe not how she sees it today but most likely eventually.  I feel like she knows you want her back and you want the marriage to continue, so to speak she has a free pass to keep doing what she’s doing because you’re waiting. I’m assuming this other guy knows of you and you of him. It’s perfect for your wife. You both know of each other she’s free to come and go as she pleases from either of you. No sneaking around or anything. Two guys waiting and willing. You have to break this cycle You’re almost the back up plan in your own marriage.

You’re in a lose lose already, that being said a lot of people want what they can’t have. Ya it’s a gamble but I’d almost make yourself unavailable to her. Make yourself what she can’t have. I’d almost act like now you’re serious about the divorce, and take a step in advancing the proceeding(bluff),
to call her bluff. In the meantime I’d get out and about if you can and keep yourself busy in your own social setting. Let her see you’re doing good at that and enjoying it without her. You’re change might create change with her too. I hate to say it but right now it’s almost like a game to her and you need to flip a 180 to get her back.

[Enabler]

The vibe I am giving off is “your loss”, “I’m cool either way”, “I don’t want this for a bunch of reasons but I’m no longer crying for you”.

FF... .that’s pretty much exactly the gig in the UK. It’s based on “needs”. She will have 3 dependants so they are the courts primary consideration. The impression is that it typically ends up unfair for both parties... .which is the perfect result as far as they’re concerned.

[Ltahoe]

I honestly feel the US at least in the states I’m familiar with are pretty much no fault also. I’ve seen infedelity not matter. With this whole addiction is a disease thing, drug use be dismissed. It’s really messed up, it’s almost the person that works the least has more time to care for the kids, and the person that is more responsible and works can afford support. Pay all the lawyers fees you want and make the lawyers richer and the courts more money. If one of the parties runs out of money first then the other party has a better chance, if not just default to the initial. Whoever works least gets kids, whoever makes more works more pays support.

[Enabler]

Excuse me for piggybacking an old thread of mine but it's kind of a continuation... .

I was backing up the photos onto a portable hard drive on the weekend. Don't know how I've missed this before but there was a screen shot of a whatsap that EnablerW had saved from Wife's OM back in Feb... .In amongst the other mumble of those "wise" words from facebook about what a soul mate should be... .Anywhere, this is what it says

"in the 'real' world that I am. I can go off on flights of fancy and not have to worry how that's judged by those who see themselves as more important than us. You're not finding it enjoyable at the moment, God doesn't want you to have to be serious about it all, I think we're being serious because it affects so many other lives but you're right, they are also responsible for their own outcomes. I personally am not going to let this experience go to waste, I am to turn it into good no matter what."


I do love the way he writes this bit >>  "those who see themselves as more important than us"... .Lovely irony there

I think there's a couple of things there.

- He clearly has either got the wrong impression, been told the wrong things or intentionally paints me that way... .But I do not and never have seen myself as more important as EnablerW, in fact for years I have striven to get to an equal footing rather than the one down that I seem to adopt naturally.

- He speaks about what God wants... .That's pretty dangerous in any religious book especially when you're having an affair with someone. He is intentionally skewing and misrepresenting religious 'teaching' although actually nowhere would God suggest not taking marriage seriously.

- He clearly has a very messed up perception of what a marriage is about. A marriage (just like his rocky business partnership) is a partnership, each individual IS accountable to the other and they are responsible for their own roles in the relationship. I have no problem with EnablerW going off on her flight of fancy, however SHE is RESPONSIBLE and ACCOUNTABLE for the impacts she has on other people owing to that flight of fancy... .And I'm sorry, in a relationship with kids, limited time and resources, there is always an impact on other people. E.g. If she wants to tell me that she's staying at the pub till midnight, telling me she'd be home just after the drink she was finishing is not cool... .Why, because she has manipulated the information that would have allowed me to make a decision in the first place.

[Notwendy]

Yes, your wife is a responsible adult, but she and OM are both married to other people and having a teen age emotional level romance. What are the consequences to her for this?

[formflier]

- He speaks about what God wants... .That's pretty dangerous in any religious book especially when you're having an affair with someone. He is intentionally skewing and misrepresenting religious 'teaching' although actually nowhere would God suggest not taking marriage seriously.
 

My wife seems to go deeper and deeper down this hole of being "sure" she knows God's will and "sure" she can see "sin" in my life and the lives of others... .all without any reference to the Bible, lesson from church... any of that


Enabler

Was your wife always like this or did she used to "honestly search for will go God" (Bible reading, taking the words to mean what they mean in the Bible... .etc etc)

FF

[Enabler]

Was your wife always like this or did she used to "honestly search for will go God" (Bible reading, taking the words to mean what they mean in the Bible... .etc etc)

She used to be the 'take guidance' type from a relatively safe group of conservative Christians based on solid theology (IMHO). She discovered a more progressive evangelical mode of Christianity (which I might add I have no problem with as it is progressive and modern, VERY thought provoking and emotionally stimulating), however, the doctrine allows for much more interpretation of theology, which is dangerous for someone with magical thinking. I think I mentioned before that the 2 of them live in a theological echo chamber where these kinds of "facts" are not attested. Ultimately OM abuses scripture to manipulate her feelings about 'them' for his personal gain... .or justification of their relationship. She still speaks to the safe group of Christians, however I suspect she pops on a different mask for them and doesn't transfer 'God's will' from one to the other... .or maybe she knows he's talking gibberish but it suits her to believe what he says.

Notwendy, I am a bit hamstrung re allowing her to feel the full consequences of her actions but I do where I can. The gaslighting and lies are to such an extent that she will bare-face lie to me that anything is going on in the face of overwhelming evidence. So, I record, observe and am patient. I show her how to be a good parent but since she has no desire to be 'in' the relationship I can no longer 'penalize' her in any way. One day she will bare the consequences of her actions, unfortunately so will the kids as a result... .but there's little I can do about that other than be there to pick up the pieces for them.

I show... .I don't tell

[formflier]

I don't tell

Is there any situation in which you would tell?

Who would you tell?

I understand there is a threat to your reputation if you "told" on her... .or something to that effect.

FF

[Enabler]

Every single attempt to 'Tell' has resulted in poor outcomes, manly because people only hear when they are ready to listen. People value their own "intelligence" and "knowledge", and such believe they "know" what is going on. I have "told" people when they have "told" me things that they "knew". Telling people when they neither asked nor were ready to hear have been my biggest own goals to date.

I am being patient.

Maybe people will eventually "ask" me and be ready to hear what I know... .as of now, we have not reach that point. All I can do is show. I show the world who I am, what my core values are on a consistent basis. I show the world that I am a consistently competent parent that thinks like a healthy parent and acts like a healthy parent making healthy parent choices. I show my children that I am a healthy father whom is consistent, takes responsibility and is accountable to them and others. I show them that I am attentive to their needs and able to provide them true love. I know that people see this. It may take a lot of patience, and maybe I won't be successful in preventing the end of my marriage... .or... .maybe someone, maybe my W might 'ask' why. Then I will 'tell'.

[Enabler]

Incidentally, a couple of quotes popped up through work today:

“In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”

"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it."

– George Orwell

[formflier]

I've been trying something for the last few months.

Letting my wife (and other people) know that I have stuff to tell, with perhaps a quick preview and then asking them to let me know when they are ready.

To early to tell "final results".  There are some things I'm trying to "officially tell" my church and it's interesting to experience them drag their feet... .at least it's my view they are foot dragging. 

Anyway...

FF

[Enabler]

I’ve kinda blown my chances I fear as I did a lot of telling when people weren’t willing to hear.

Found out today after calling the divorce office that W has formally applied for the decree nisi. She has not told me this, only asked for financials to be sorted out. This is a common courtesy I assume is normally sorted out through lawyers telling each other. Since we’re doing a collaborative divorce, I would expect her to inform me as we go along... .clearly I didn’t anticipate her doing this so I’ve been calling the divorce office periodically to check. Doesn’t exactly give me much confidence re the rest of the harder parts of the divorce, nor parenting post divorce.

I’m flip flopping and being reactive on the back of this news, however I feel compelled to tell her of my displeasure about this lack of communication, also displeasure of her using my car to go and see her lover and forcing me to catch the train to work since her car was in the garage for repairs. That said, I feel this will just play into her court and is precisiely what she would like me to do.

She has now started to “seek permission” on all expenditure as though I am some kind of family treasurer... .  her financial captor. I simply responded “not sure why I’m being asked this question”.

I actually don’t think my W wants to hear my thoughts, as they may well be too close to the truth for her.

[formflier]

I am sorry you have band news to wrestle with...  

I can't imagine anything good coming from letting your wife know... that you know. 

When you "officially" find out... express shock at that point.

FF

[Enabler]

Time and patience is my friend. Delay is the natural consequence of lack of communication.

[Enabler]

Proverbs 20:22 (Listen)

22 Do not say, “I will repay evil”;
wait for the Lord, and he will deliver you.

Timely scripture

[Cat Familiar]

How are you doing, Enabler?  It must have been rather shocking to find out this way.   

Cat