what do you do if a child does not want to visit?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So, my husbands 11 yr old twin boys have been severely alienated from him over the last 8 months. The trigger for the extreme alienation (it had always been an issue over the last 8 yrs but has ramped up dramatically) was a court hearing we had last September where BPDxw lost in most of her motions (she wanted the kids to not come and visit us as we live overseas- judge did not agree).

Our L  shared with us that opposing L had a lot of difficulties with BPDxw and reported that she said after court: her life was over.

Ever since then BPDxw has been indoctrinating the 11 yr old twin boys "that they do not want to come and visit us and you can't force me".
My husband unfortunately takes this very personal. There were some other issues (BPDxw not applying for passports early enough) so that this summer the 5 week visit they were supposed to have in our home did not happen. Promptly with the start of school BPDxw has told the boys to start with the "we do not want to come for christmas" campaign.

My husband is really fearful of this and believes that when he gets to their local airport to pick them up for visitation they will refuse to go with him.
I still believe that that thy will murmur and whine but will go with him because BPDxw knows that if he is there to pick them up and they don't go with him she will get in trouble.
In the past visitation was successful with them. There were always the first couple of days of adjustment for them and us where they had to come off of their mothers brainwashing. But after that fun was had by all and lots of good memories were made (even though we now wonder wether they are keeping those memories or are completely brainwashed). I also believe that kids that age are wired to want to have fun and will complain a bit, but then will resort to having fun.

But what if... .what if my husband is right? What if the kids really do not want to come? How do you respond to such an "assertion" from the child? And how would you go forward? Just follow the court ordered visitation plan? Stop waisting money on overseas plane tickets that we might be stuck with in the end?

[soundofmusicgirl]

So, my husbands 11 yr old twin boys have been severely alienated from him over the last 8 months. The trigger for the extreme alienation (it had always been an issue over the last 8 yrs but has ramped up dramatically) was a court hearing we had last September where BPDxw lost in most of her motions (she wanted the kids to not come and visit us as we live overseas- judge did not agree).

Our L  shared with us that opposing L had a lot of difficulties with BPDxw and reported that she said after court: her life was over.

Ever since then BPDxw has been indoctrinating the 11 yr old twin boys "that they do not want to come and visit us and you can't force me".
My husband unfortunately takes this very personal. There were some other issues (BPDxw not applying for passports early enough) so that this summer the 5 week visit they were supposed to have in our home did not happen. Promptly with the start of school BPDxw has told the boys to start with the "we do not want to come for christmas" campaign.

My husband is really fearful of this and believes that when he gets to their local airport to pick them up for visitation they will refuse to go with him.
I still believe that that thy will murmur and whine but will go with him because BPDxw knows that if he is there to pick them up and they don't go with him she will get in trouble.
In the past visitation was successful with them. There were always the first couple of days of adjustment for them and us where they had to come off of their mothers brainwashing. But after that fun was had by all and lots of good memories were made (even though we now wonder wether they are keeping those memories or are completely brainwashed). I also believe that kids that age are wired to want to have fun and will complain a bit, but then will resort to having fun.

But what if... .what if my husband is right? What if the kids really do not want to come? How do you respond to such an "assertion" from the child? And how would you go forward? Just follow the court ordered visitation plan? Stop waisting money on overseas plane tickets that we might be stuck with in the end?

[livednlearned]

That's tough.

I always looked for solutions that brought the most sunshine, to get as much light on the situation as possible.

That could mean meeting the kids somewhere an important third-party professional is present. Isn't there a psychologist involved? Is it possible to arrange for the kids to meet you at the psychologist's office at a scheduled appointment?

What does your lawyer say about the kids refusing to go? Are there any recommendations from the legal side?

[soundofmusicgirl]

livednlearned, yes there is a therapist involved. But she is the therapist from hell that is BPDxw's puppet. She absolutely buys into "the kids should not spent any time overseas with their father" story of BPDxw and was actually at the court hearing willing to testify for BPDxw. (in the end the judge did not allow it).

The court order says that BPDxw needs to bring the kids to the closest international airport. Which is 3 hours away from their home. We have tried to have airport police present at these exchanges but they do not have jurisdiction and really don't care. We have tried to meet her at a police station close to the airport. She did not show up and just texted my husband that she has been waiting at the airport for 1.5 hours and why is he not there (of course the kids yelled at my husband when he got there about why he let them wait... uhm... because we told mom that we will be waiting at a different spot).

The only idea I currently have is maybe have a therapy dog come and be present at the exchange as the twins love dogs. It might be a welcome distraction for them. And since the handler of the dog will be there as well maybe BPDxw will behave?

[livednlearned]

That's right, I remember now. The therapist is part of the alienation problem.

have a therapy dog come and be present at the exchange as the twins love dogs. It might be a welcome distraction for them. And since the handler of the dog will be there as well maybe BPDxw will behave?

That sounds like a very creative and worthy idea!

Maybe build in a buffer for plan B and C in case the dogs don't work. Can your husband plan to spend additional days there?

Another possibility is to ask local law enforcement to make a domestic assistance call with your H.

I'm guessing there is no way to get a new therapist involved, even if it was a family therapist for your H, who might agree to meet with the kids after the exchange? It still amazes me how skillful and effective a good therapist is. My son's therapist is a miracle worker, helping us both see a way forward that neither of us could see before.

It might also be worth finding a therapist in your home town who will meet with the boys and your H. It's almost like, What does your H have to lose at this point?

[ForeverDad]

I recall when my ex took my then-S3 to a child therapist agency and I was blocked for over a year from participating or even telling my side of the story, I decided to seek out recommended child counselors.  One told me, it's not good for a child to have two counselors.  I could see the point.  So I would agree that your H could bring his kids with him on his own counseling appointments, described as nice "meet, greet and get to know you" visits and of course maybe more unofficially.  But probably shouldn't get them their own counselors, that news might backfire back in the court.

They're minors, the court made it an order, they don't get to decide.  The court has historically taken the position that minors, particularly those not yet teens, are not old enough to make major decisions.  What makes this tough is that even elementary age children are allowed to choose genders these days in some areas, yet children in general have to abide by court orders?  (Yes, older children such as those in their teens can sometimes "vote with their feet" especially if they can drive.)

Try to buffer enough advance time before the flight so dad gets some alone time with them (that is, away from alienating mother) to get a head start on the transition behaviors.

[soundofmusicgirl]

ForeverDad, yes our L just confirmed that my husband could "force" the kids to come with him legally. Her advice was  to bribe them with an ipad or something  She also said that maybe

I would even go for that if I could count on BPDXw not taking it away the second they bring it home.

For now I have asked a friend with an airport therapy dog to be there at the exchange at the airport. Maybe that will help them to be distracted a little... .

[soundofmusicgirl]

So my husband finally had a chance to ask why my stepsons do not want to come and visit.

Here is the absolute logical and totally non-influenced answer (snide remark):
Because it is a different country and there are a lot of criminals.



Yep... .logic wins all the time with a BPD