Did I know she was "broken"

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

... .Why are people co-dependent?

Why would anyone enter into a relationship with a clearly broken, damaged person unless there was a payoff (or hope of payoff) that far exceeded the downside. What could that payoff be that is so compelling?

It get's more complicated when there is a marriage and children, etc.

... .the issue is the payoff - not the inability to recognize destructive relationship.

Hey Skip,

The r/s to which I hitched my above statements to was my first marriage,

Why would anyone enter into a relationship with a clearly broken, damaged person unless there was a payoff,

Well, it was 1984... .I was eighteen, just outa high school... .she was sixteen, we got pregnant, so we got married, that's how folks rolled back then.

Its called being responsible, that how we were raised back then !

Did I know she was "broken"... .no, I did not, I had no clue about much of anything back then other than girls, fixing cars, and things only eighteen year olds want to do... .but I sure did fall for her hard, I was quite smitten, head over heals... .was I in love?, did I even understand what real love was/is, ie' a marriage commitment, did I understand any of that at eighteen... .in that small southern town... .most likely not, in the context of a mature adult anyway.

We wanted to "run away"... .to be on our own, I thought we would be together forever, but who was really running, and who was really in love?

I was certainly VERY naïve for many years after we got married, and left home together.

Turns out she was an incest victim... .I did not even know what that meant back then... .absolutely clueless,

So we grew up together, then she started to act out, and about nine years in, it came apart... .but "we" held it together, only to have the marriage crash again eleven years later for keeps; after almost twenty two years.

Quite a loss, extremely painful... .three kids, the oldest is autistic, and lives with me to this day.

Now I am re-married, but only now, after "all for that", and "all of this"; do I think I may have a clue.

I am not a Psychologist, nope I am not, .

In my mind, "codependency" is when one party in the relationship holds on too hard, too long, even as the other one wants to go, and be free to be with another, or others... .thus the one left behind is crushed, hurt, and lost... .and in great pain, waiting for, pining for, the one that most likely will never return, wanting and waiting for the r/s to be restored to a perceived notion of what it may have been before (futility)... .thinking that there will never be another but her (or him)... .add kids, time, a mortgage, history... .and the pain increases... .

Pretty "grown up" stuff !

Once your hurt to that depth, hurt so deeply, it changes you inside... .you're never really the same again.

Codependents generally seek a weak, younger, poorer or damaged person so that they will reap the continued validation of being the stronger one.

I cant make this compute back in 1984 Skip... .although she was younger, she was quite the "fire cracker", .so weak don't work either, .as far as stronger, she used to tell me she "felt safe" with me... .way back there when Reagan was the POTUS... .the damaged part I began to see much later on, about the time I was getting ready to deploy to Desert Storm, and our autistic son was just four, and our second Son was six months old... .yeah, this may have been the start of problems, ie' perceived abandonment?... due to impending deployment, ie' leaving her on her own for God knows how long?

... .the inability (ability) to recognize a destructive relationship,

This came much later even, the ability to recognize the dysfunction for what it was... .serial infidelity, suicide attempts, manipulation... .promises to change, and stop f_king around on me... .by now we had a daughter, .boy I tell ya, life can sure suck sometimes... .

I was under the impression, convoluted state of mind, that if I prayed to God hard enough, and lived my life as best I could that our marriage would be saved, as this was just a stage she was going trough, due to her early childhood abuse... .I was "codependent" in the context that I could not bear the thought of losing her for good, forever, the marriage ended, .the loss of the family unit, my children would suffer... .again, pretty grown up stuff.

... .the idea that the descending of the railroad crossing gate makes trains appear,

But they do appear don't they !... .woe betide the poor basterd who ignores the descending of the railroad crossing gate !

Yes, ignore the RRX at your peril !

Again, Thanks Skip !

Red5


  

[Red5]

... .Why are people co-dependent?

Why would anyone enter into a relationship with a clearly broken, damaged person unless there was a payoff (or hope of payoff) that far exceeded the downside. What could that payoff be that is so compelling?

It get's more complicated when there is a marriage and children, etc.

... .the issue is the payoff - not the inability to recognize destructive relationship.

Hey Skip,

The r/s to which I hitched my above statements to was my first marriage,

Why would anyone enter into a relationship with a clearly broken, damaged person unless there was a payoff,

Well, it was 1984... .I was eighteen, just outa high school... .she was sixteen, we got pregnant, so we got married, that's how folks rolled back then.

Its called being responsible, that how we were raised back then !

Did I know she was "broken"... .no, I did not, I had no clue about much of anything back then other than girls, fixing cars, and things only eighteen year olds want to do... .but I sure did fall for her hard, I was quite smitten, head over heals... .was I in love?, did I even understand what real love was/is, ie' a marriage commitment, did I understand any of that at eighteen... .in that small southern town... .most likely not, in the context of a mature adult anyway.

We wanted to "run away"... .to be on our own, I thought we would be together forever, but who was really running, and who was really in love?

I was certainly VERY naïve for many years after we got married, and left home together.

Turns out she was an incest victim... .I did not even know what that meant back then... .absolutely clueless,

So we grew up together, then she started to act out, and about nine years in, it came apart... .but "we" held it together, only to have the marriage crash again eleven years later for keeps; after almost twenty two years.

Quite a loss, extremely painful... .three kids, the oldest is autistic, and lives with me to this day.

Now I am re-married, but only now, after "all for that", and "all of this"; do I think I may have a clue.

I am not a Psychologist, nope I am not, .

In my mind, "codependency" is when one party in the relationship holds on too hard, too long, even as the other one wants to go, and be free to be with another, or others... .thus the one left behind is crushed, hurt, and lost... .and in great pain, waiting for, pining for, the one that most likely will never return, wanting and waiting for the r/s to be restored to a perceived notion of what it may have been before (futility)... .thinking that there will never be another but her (or him)... .add kids, time, a mortgage, history... .and the pain increases... .

Pretty "grown up" stuff !

Once your hurt to that depth, hurt so deeply, it changes you inside... .you're never really the same again.

Codependents generally seek a weak, younger, poorer or damaged person so that they will reap the continued validation of being the stronger one.

I cant make this compute back in 1984 Skip... .although she was younger, she was quite the "fire cracker", .so weak don't work either, .as far as stronger, she used to tell me she "felt safe" with me... .way back there when Reagan was the POTUS... .the damaged part I began to see much later on, about the time I was getting ready to deploy to Desert Storm, and our autistic son was just four, and our second Son was six months old... .yeah, this may have been the start of problems, ie' perceived abandonment?... due to impending deployment, ie' leaving her on her own for God knows how long?

... .the inability (ability) to recognize a destructive relationship,

This came much later even, the ability to recognize the dysfunction for what it was... .serial infidelity, suicide attempts, manipulation... .promises to change, and stop f_king around on me... .by now we had a daughter, .boy I tell ya, life can sure suck sometimes... .

I was under the impression, convoluted state of mind, that if I prayed to God hard enough, and lived my life as best I could that our marriage would be saved, as this was just a stage she was going trough, due to her early childhood abuse... .I was "codependent" in the context that I could not bear the thought of losing her for good, forever, the marriage ended, .the loss of the family unit, my children would suffer... .again, pretty grown up stuff.

... .the idea that the descending of the railroad crossing gate makes trains appear,

But they do appear don't they !... .woe betide the poor basterd who ignores the descending of the railroad crossing gate !

Yes, ignore the RRX at your peril !

Again, Thanks Skip !

Red5


  

[Skip]

In my mind, "codependency" is when one party in the relationship holds on too hard, too long, even as the other one wants to go, and be free to be with another, or others ... .thus the one left behind is crushed, hurt, and lost ... .and in great pain, waiting for, pining for, the one that most likely will never return, wanting and waiting for the r/s to be restored to a perceived notion of what it may have been before (futility) ... .thinking that there will never be another but her (or him) ... .

Is this you?

add kids, time, a mortgage, history ... .and the pain increases ... .

This raises t he stakes exponentially, no doubt.

[Cat Familiar]

I was recovering from the heartbreak of losing a good relationship due to my bf leaving the state for grad school when I met the man who would ultimately become my husband. It certainly wasn't love at first sight for me, but he seemed kind and thoughtful (then). I wasn't at all committed to him, but he insidiously wove himself into my life and I came to tolerate it, then accept it. And once I did, then the BPD crazy behavior commenced.

He even managed to talk me into marrying him and at that point I was resigned to accept that this is how my life would be. Certainly there were nice moments, but most of all I felt like I was managing one crisis after another. When things were stable for the moment, he'd do what he could to disrupt the smooth sailing and I'd be bailing the boat for all I was worth.

It took so much energy dealing with the crisis du jour that I had little time for self reflection of just exactly what I'd signed up for, but in the process, he continually undermined my self esteem to the point where I believed I was as powerless as he had led me to believe. And as typical stories here go, it continued that way until it got worse and worse.

Had I made some unfortunate choices along the way, I could easily have ended up in prison. Thankfully I eventually found freedom from this relationship after far too many years of being enslaved. It wasn't easy, but I never had one moment of regret in freeing myself.

[Red5]

Is this you?

Hey Skip!

"is that you John Wayne... .is this me"... .what thread is this?

No worries ; )

So to answer your question... .

I used to be this person, .but I am not anymore.

Now I am something else entirely, .Jesus!... .do I really want to write this.

Ok, who am I now... .
*I feel old, beat up, rode hard, and put up "wet".
*I think I am empathic, yes I am, .but I don't tolerate someone, people who would do anything to hurt me (emotionally), or my children.
*I don't have much faith in humanity as a whole.
*I am carnally minded, I do like to see a beautiful woman, and I understand its just look, NO touch... .
*Love... .as in romantic, little to no faith, or trust anymore.
*I live in a place that is happy, and woe betide to anyone whom threatens this "happy place".
*I have used drink, and cigarettes to self sooth, but I quit the smokes.
*I want my wife to be happy, even if its not with me... .
*I have a hard heart now, as far as my marriage (current)... .if she were to leave this afternoon, I could care less... .that's the extent of the person I have become, I trust no one (women) really anymore, .that's pretty crazy I know... .too bad really.
*I am a nice guy ; )
* I am easy going, carefree, I like to do my own thing, I am fiercely independent now... .and I don't like it when someone try's to "reign me in".
*I don't like bullies, and @SS_O_'s
*Do I love my wife (current)... .Lord, I don't really know if I even know what that kind of love is anymore... .I do love my children, my family, some very close friends... .my dog, my cat... .but I am very untrustworthy, and very suspicious of people sometimes.
*I was very naïve for a very long time, and it was very costly !... .but I figure I got enough barbwire wrapped around my little black plastic Darth Vader heart now up to keep the really bad ones from getting inside my helmet, and to my "command post" .
*I am a caretaker, a protector, I would do anything for anybody, .how does this compute with the above?
*Better leave me alone when I give off the warning, or else !
*I am quietly angry, and sad, and I cry in private, I conceal my emotions most times... .I am very private.
*I don't want to hurt anybody, I want everybody to A-OK !
*I like helping people and fixing things for people.
*I don't want anything from anybody.
*I want everybody to be happy and safe.

Ok, that's enough for now.

"Jiminy Christmas!"

Red5

[Skip]

I really respect your self-honesty. That is a huge. And good for you.

It's not a good list. You are going to be laying in a hospital bed on day like John McCain - and you will ask yourself, why did I live this life?

The lines that stand out the most to me are:

I am quietly angry, and sad, and I cry in private, I conceal my emotions most times ... .I am very private. I don't have much faith in humanity as a whole. Love ... .as in romantic, little to no faith, or trust anymore. I have a hard heart now I am very untrustworthy, and very suspicious of people sometimes I trust no one (women) really anymore I feel old, beat up, rode hard, and put up "wet". I don't want anything from anybody.

It breaks my heart to read this.

Do you want a better life? Do you have the energy to seek it?

The second question is the hard one, I know. 

[AskingWhy]

So to answer your question ... .

I used to be this person, ... .but I am not anymore.

Dear Red, I thought these sentences rang true with me.

After I entered my R/S with uBPD/uNPD H, I became a different person.

The true nature of BPD did not rear its head until about a year into the marriage.  It's now 20+ years.

H seemed so, well, normal when we were dating.  Did I see red flags?  Maybe.  I was about six months into the R/S that H told me his wife was the same race/ethnicity as me.  I should have seen it for the repetition compulsion that it was--H was using me as an attempt to make a second go with his first wife.  

Nothing (and I do mean nothing) seemed to go right with the marriage after about a year.  H was upset with me and I suspect he was projecting his rage at his X W onto me.  (Remember?  We are of the same ethnic background so, in effect, I "was" her, the woman who cheated on him.)  It struck me strange at the level of rage and being out of proportion to the situation at hand.  He slammed the lid of the barbecue grill and broke the handle off, then brandished it at me (I was about 20 feet away and near the house), and he raged, "You'd better go into the house because I'm fixing to get really mad!"  Looking back, I should have left at that time, but that was 20 years ago.

My own FOO was itself chaotic, and the rages were commonplace for me.  Like the proverbial boiled frog, I did not see the dysfunction for what it was.  So here I am, 20 years down the road.

My happy self is now totally buried in the pain and hurt my H has caused.  I used to be a happy person with a great sense of humor, quick to turn irony into a laugh.  I loved life and being who I was. I know somewhere that person is buried, but under resentment, pain, unhappiness.

At this point, I am like a person looking at a poker hand and having to decide, "Do I fold now, or do I play this hand out to the end?"

I know from examining my own FOO, that things in a family can be really screwed up. I look at my MIL and FIL, and--crikey!--what a mess!  H knows on some level that his F is somewhat, well, odd.  H is not interested in, however, looking to see just how much his parents played a role in making him the cauldron of rage that he is.  I think H is afraid of what he might find. 

[Red5]

Do you want a better life? Do you have the energy to seek it?

Hey Skip,

H3LL, I reckon I'm doing pretty good here... .like that Norwegian General who came into our area on Ørland Main Air Station (winter of 1999)... .he said, "you Marines there... .you have a good and hardened bunker here, do your have rations, .heat, and fresh water... .and winter gear to wear, it will be quite cold tonight"... .

Yeah, I'm ok!

Have a great job, I draw my pensions, got a nice house, a boat, great kids... .my health is still good for the most part... .so forth and so on... .

I am self aware, .I am spiritual, I like to think I am above the BS... .I know where the edges are, .I have people who depend on me to keep my head.

My life is pretty quiet at the moment, after the wild week I had with u/BPDw... .I learn something new everyday in regards to her, and how to "handle" her.

I am a simple minded man, I try to not let things bother me too much.

My marriage relationship has run its course I think, not too many unknowns anymore, the lines have been drawn, I understand her a little more everyday.

She is who she is, there is no "fixing her"... .

I am too tired to try to "make her happy" anymore (futility)... ."life is tough, and its tougher if you act stupidly"... so I try not to act stupid  !

No, don't worry about me Skip, ole' Red5, I'll be just fine and dandy !

Life is good here, I got plenty of mason jar wine, the beach is only ten minutes away, and my fishing license is not expired yet.

As far as a better life (?), I am content with this one... .my Grandmother used to tell me when I was a kid, "boy" she'd say... ."you get to feeling down on your luck, then I want you to count your blessings, name them one by one... .you hear me boy"... ."pretty soon you'll realize you ain't so bad off no more anyhow"... .she lived to be 91, raised eight kids, and lived though the great depression... .her and Grampa were married for 67 years when she passed.

They raised me practically (long story).

Pretty solid advice... .and at 52, I still pull it out and use it to this day.

Thanks Skip !

Red5

[Red5]

Hey AskingWhy,

My happy self is now totally buried in the pain and hurt my H has caused.  I used to be a happy person with a great sense of humor, quick to turn irony into a laugh.  I loved life and being who I was. I know somewhere that person is buried, but under resentment, pain, unhappiness.

I hope that you are able to resurrect the person you used to be... .

... .hang in there, I have a new saying, its "GOLE"... .stands for "go on living everyday" !

My co-worker came up with it... .I like it !

Best wishes, Red5

[Red5]

Hey Cat,

Thankfully I eventually found freedom from this relationship after far too many years of being enslaved. It wasn't easy, but I never had one moment of regret in freeing myself.

It took me a while to come to terms with the first divorce... .even to this day, it still haunts me sometimes, .and you knw what, if I had it to do all over again, I would, because we had these three kids together... .so I'd do it all again, just so I could meet them ; )

My current wife and I, we don't have this "history" together... .she actually said this exact same thing to me... .she also "laments" about her own previous marriage as well.

This subject is not conducive to a healthy marriage, always talking about your ex... .no, not healthy at all.

As of today, I don't know... .it was quite a week last week... .not sure I can "patch up the torpedo holes so good this time"... .I really don't know if I even want too ?... .at this point.

Red5

[Skip]

my Grandmother used to tell me when I was a kid, "boy" she'd say ... ."you get to feeling down on your luck, then I want you to count your blessings, name them one by one ... .you hear me boy" ... ."pretty soon you'll realize you ain't so bad off no more anyhow" ... .

I'm sure she had a lot of great wisdoms. Is this the one she would tell you if she saw that list?

I'm not offering any simple solutions or lobbying you to do anything specific, I just asking if you are really OK with all those things or if you just normalized them over the years.

I ask this with the utmost respect for the peace you have found in the life you have.

My partner was married around the same age as you and was married for 35 years with a nice family house and a large pack of kids/grandkids. She had reached detente in her world and accepted the normalization of the abnormal. And then she broke away and now lives her life.

Could I have done that? I don't know. It took a lot of strength and a deep plunge into the unknown at a time when life was very settled. Not everyone could do it. It takes vision.

Did you ever try to visualize what your life could be if you changed it. Live in that world for a little while? Think about the steps?

It might be at least worth a serious mental exploration. There is no risk in that. Try to imagine trusting. Not being road worn. Afterward, you can put it all back in the box.

Extended exposure to rage scars us down.

Maybe do it for the Money Tree that lost its life this week.   

Hang in there man.

[formflier]

  ... . I have people who depend on me to keep my head.

  and how to "handle" her.
 

She is who she is, there is no "fixing her" ... .

I am too tired to try to "make her happy" anymore (futility) ... .
 

Hey Red5,

I identify with the bolded line.  After so many years in the military it's hard to figure out if I think that way because of the military or if the military just "polished" up what was already there.

I suspect much of the way were are was already there.

Please read what I have to say with the bolded statement in mind. 

I really do hope you are over "trying to make" her happy.  I also hope you can understand I'm not suggesting you stop doing nice things from time to time, especially if she behaves well.

For a Naval Aviator to discuss infantry tactics with a Marine might not go too well... so I'll stay really general.

Marines tend to like to "close with the enemy" and take care of business.  I would guess that heavily influences how you "engage" with your wife.  After all... you are tough and can take it... and you are learning new tools and all that.

I think a major shift is in order for you.  When she tries to "ambush" you, I think that you need to "retreat" or "put distance between you".  Don't engage.

She wants to tell you how much of an A$$hole you are... .leave room.  Don't listen... .zero zip NADA.  Perhaps if you have to stay in the room it's time for "flight-line quality hearing protection. 

"foamies" and hard hearing protection.  Or... .noise cancelling headphones.

This needs to be consistent.  My memory of reading about your lovely week is that sometimes you gained distance and sometimes you engaged.

If she wants to blather... disengage... .period.  When she wants to be nice... .come together... be nice.

No more "taking it"

FF

[Red5]

Thanks FF!

Only got a second... .

UR correct in that both of us are who we are and have been “polished”, I do not think it’s too far off to say we were brought up from good but tough parenting in my case my own Grandparents, and thank God for that.

Another Marine analogy... .“‘improvise overcome and adapt”,

I do this all the time... .

Thanks FF!

Red5

[formflier]

  adapt”,

 

This is where you need to focus your Marine toughness. 

Spend some time thinking about what that may look like.

FF

[Ltahoe]

I don’t think most of us knew our partners where broken. Especially in the beggining, I noticed with my W that she tends to split people after about a year. Combine this with a fairly quick pregnancy and when I was being split she was able to pin it on pregnancy hormones, then post pardum for so long.

I thought I had learned my lesson from my first two psycho exes, relationships that passed about 18 months then all went to heck. I was young back then teens early 20s. Was always raised to respect women, very caring, very family oriented, add the other “caretaker” attributes and I was perfect pickings for unstable partners. Of course I can’t say that my exes where BPD idk what happened with their behaviors just that they where unstable, and appear to still be unstable 10 plus years later. I became aware of my mistakes in selecting women, or letting them select me. Between these very unstable relationships I dated some good relationships ended due to relocations(mid 20s at this point) careers, extra education created relocations. I met some not so great mates these where easy to let go, given I didn’t want my past repeat. I was young and naive I thought in selecting my two major problematic relationships, but had gained experience I thought.

Then I met my wife of course everything was great for the first year, my wife was like nothing ever before. She was working, going to school etc seemed to have it all together. She basically mirrored my values, morals, all the important stuff back to me. Seemed like we had a lot in common, truth is we still do but not as much as originally thought. So in my case and cases similar I think you don’t really know in the beginning, especially if you haven’t been split yet. I suppose if you’re polite, and have high values, etc. you might take longer to get split. So to assume one should have known in all cases  seems easier said than done. Sure I should have known about my exes when I was younger, I ignored all the signs, but pwBPD are exceptionally well at burying these signs. Especially higher functioning, which I believe my wife mostly is.  Guarantee my parents don’t know, her friends don’t know no one thinks she’s crazy. They’d all think I’m crazy if I was to tell them how she really is, think it would take years or longer especially for those in a non romantic relationship to get a glimpse of what I see.

Truth is my first two crazy exes had basically almost set me right into the path of accepting my wife’s behavior. Her behavior even though erratic seems to be less dramatic and destructive than the two that made the decision easy for me to leave. I can say my W has completely tested me though, so she has not went for the jugular as some of my previous exes have but is more or less creating death by a thousand paper cuts.

[GaGrl]

My DH saw red flags prior to marrying his ex (uNPD/BPD), but she was young, and he attributed it to immaturity. He also was navigating cultural differences. He told himself that once he got her to the U.S. And she settled into a supportive Christian marriage, family and community, she would be fine. (Magic thinking on his part, especially considering she is Buddhist.)

The mention of 18 months is interesting. That"s about how long it was before her first affair. She also has a pattern of female friendships that last 18-24 months before the friends can't deal with her or she splits them.

[Red5]

I'm not offering any simple solutions or lobbying you to do anything specific, I just asking if you are really OK with all those things or if you just normalized them over the years.

I ask this with the utmost respect for the peace you have found in the life you have.

Did you ever try to visualize what your life could be if you changed it. Live in that world for a little while? Think about the steps?

It might be at least worth a serious mental exploration. There is no risk in that. Try to imagine trusting. Not being road worn. Afterward, you can put it all back in the box.

Extended exposure to rage scars us down.

Maybe do it for the Money Tree that lost its life this week.

Morning Skip!

I have “normalized it”… I figure the more I bolt armor onto my rusty, bullet ridden exterior, then I won’t have to worry about getting “hurt” ever again… this is a “trust issue (yes)”.

So I look to myself to fix myself, to ensure my own safety, ie’ better not let “her” inside all the way, something don’t seem quite just right about her, she might be like the last one(s), and start tearing the place up (my heart) if you let her all the way, past the alarms, past the dogs, past the inner seals and air locks…

Crazy stuff  !

I do visualize, and it’s a safe place, with no attachments, as you know “attachments” can be trouble !

Yeah, a nice quiet existence, on the beach, or in the woods someplace, there will be fishing!… just me and my son (autistic/life long responsibility)… I don't see my current W there though... .and that’s why I am such a good caretaker?

I actually think I am waiting her out, like my first wife... .sooner or later, she will grow tired of my inability to "make her happy"?

... .remove O2 from a fire, it goes out,

Question, do you know of this book?… No More Mr. Nice Guy / a Book by Robert A. Glover

Trusting, completely (?), that’s pretty risky now isn't it Skip !…

Scars... .pretty scar'ed I am !… but that is character isn’t it ?

Now I have “money tree PTSD”… now every time I see a little money $ tree, I will always remember the sounds of mine screaming as she pulled it apart… limb by limb…

https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=3DarutWDx50

Thank you for all ya’ll do here Skip!

Good as Gold !

Red5

[Red5]

adapt”, .Spend some time thinking about what that may look like.

Morning FF!

Yes, as I focus on what adapt' would look like, in this case/context... .adapt to me means to continue learning, and be radically acceptant to what ever happens in the near /distant future... .whatever happens, adapt to it, and pick it up, load it into my "pack", and march forward smartly with it... .

That said, as a Marine (retired)... .we (Marines) always ask... .1.) how much does it weigh... .2.) how many are there... .3). how far are we going to carry it... .

Adapt, "•become adjusted to new conditions."... .

Story of my life!

As far as hearing protection, I wore a flight deck helmet (red) for about twenty-years, to include about two years of sea duty ; )

The other six (20+6=26); the other years were spent in training, on instructor duty, and at the "STAFF" billet.

"foamies" and hard hearing protection... .

NOTE: DON'T EAT THE FOAMIES ... .and cigarette butts are not hearing protection

*One of my hobbies is, .I collect flight helmets, and the correct period O2 masks for reach one, last count, I have about 12+ in my collection, from the very first (APH-5), to modern (HGU-68).

*This is just for you FF ; )

https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=-yMJhKbOh3c

Thank You FF!

Red5

[Red5]

Then I met my wife of course everything was great for the first year, my wife was like nothing ever before. She was working, going to school etc seemed to have it all together. She basically mirrored my values, morals, all the important stuff back to me.

Afternoon Ltahoe!

This is my second wife (you describe above)... .she had also divorced, three years prior to our meeting, she had a good career job, her own home, and she seemed extremely stable and secure, independent (?)... .we both seemed to "sync"... .I really liked the fact that she was completely independent;

I know now that this is called mirroring, .at least the "values, morals, beliefs/personality traits"... .parts.

She moved very quickly, after three or four weeks, after she left my house one evening, .she texted me that she "loved me"... .yes sir, she texted that, instead of saying it to me directly... .sex engulfment soon followed... .the ideation phase... .she also told me about all the toads she had dated prior to meeting me ... .

We met in the six month, and by the twelfth month, we'd started to "quarrel"... .I chalked this up to post marital/divorce independence... .hmmm, we married four years after that... .now seven + years downrange.

Red5 was completely clueless back then... .oh' well!

Kind regards!,
Red5

[Red5]

He even managed to talk me into marrying him... .

 !... .that's what my W says I did to her !

That's NOT the way I remember it  ;(

Live and learn... .ouch !

Red5

[formflier]

Adapt, "•become adjusted to new conditions." ... .
 

This is where I need you to get "strategic"... .

What if YOU didn't adapt? 

What if you set the new conditions... .and let your wife adapt... or not?

Marines... .will pretty much take whatever situation, make the best of it... .kick some a$$ and walk away heroes...   And that's usually a cool thing.

What if... .what if... .someone walked up to a Marine... .and started a fight.  The Marine... instead of whipping his a$$ good right there... what if that Marine taunted his poor foe... invited his poor foe to follow... .and went to a better battlefield?

What am I suggesting you do Red5?

FF

[Red5]

What if... .what if... .someone walked up to a Marine... .and started a fight.  

... .the Marine... instead of whipping his a$$ good right there... what if that Marine taunted his poor foe... invited his poor foe to follow... .and went to a better battlefield?

What am I suggesting you do Red5?

FF

hmmm, .shux we did this all the time FF, .how many young devil Dogs did I come across and they said to me (over the years)... .Staff Sergeant, Gunnery Sergeant, Master Sergeant... .I don't want to be here, I don't want this responsibility, I want to go home, before ole' Jody boy runs off with my Mary Jane ____... .

We, as "professional Staff NCO's were "masters" at manipulation, ever met a Marine Recruiter, those cats could sell ice cream to an Eskimo ... .

Yes, we were able to "paint a picture" that the young Devil Dog could "not resist", and then we applied power when needed, maybe a little "flaps" here and there, next thing you know, Jr. is a young Corporal or a Sergeant, and a leader... .and the "DNA" is passed on to the next generation... .how did we do that?

Hmmm, .I think FF that what you are suggesting I do, is to offer [udxBPD] W some alternate outcomes, choices, not the other way round as she tried to force during a heated moment (call him now she screamed) yes, offer her a choice she can't refuse... .but still remaining in control of the situation (to quote Alexander Haig)... .oops

https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=zUKW0fL-OqY

... .yes; give her some choices, and let her "connect the dots"... .

... .ie' in the situation that caused this all to begin with, her trying to involve the BIL verses tomb of doom $H1T evacuation operation... .I could have said... .

... .sure, I'll call him, ok... .wait a minute (chaff & flares)... .let me see your phone there, .and then I take her phone, and then put it into my back pocket, and keep shoveling... .thus giving her a clear sign that I'm busy, .should she question it, I would say, I'll call him in a short minute hold on (dodge)... .and then tell her, I've almost got the edges exposed here, .hold on... .then I could have offered another alternate choice to her... .here, take this shovel, and hold it right here, and keep pressure on the inverted pressure plate cover assembly thingy... .

I think its all about choices (inverted adaptation ?)... .as I always hear you say... ."don't give your control away",

What happened to me... .was this, I was engulfed in the aforementioned operation, I was in full blower fix it now mode... .it was hot, it was loud, it was a very masculine evolution... .sweaty men with shovels digging up the septic tank hatch ; )

This may have in fact triggered [udxBPD] W... .and she had to try an "assert her perceived power"... .and I pushed her aside, as I was maybe overly focused on the task at hand... .like what we may know as a "helmet fire", or "task saturation in the cockpit"... .yes?

Maybe like when FF is in the left seat, and coming over the round down on and dark stormy night, blue water bingo, with a broken airspeed indicator, and a low oil light in the port engine... .and then one of the Radar Officers in the back comes over the radio and says... .I just lost power, and I have a fire warning light back here... .

Well, something like that  !

I agree,

What if you set the new conditions... .and let your wife adapt... or not?

She wants me to call my ne'er-do-well step BIL, ."sure, give me your phone"... .and then let her figure it out... .ie' when am I going to call him(?), .well when I "feel like it"... .the task at hand comes first, .ie' an ok3 wire & safe on deck; taxing up to the 3 row on the bow.

https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=c5WfxwnLlLU

Am I close FF?

I need a paddles call ; )

Red5

[formflier]

No more fighting in her "mudhole".  If you roll with the pigs you will get... .?

I'm not saying "don't fight".  I'm not saying retreat... .just don't fight her on her terms... even though you can buck up and give it right back to her. 

Somehow... that feeds the monster.

If you go to a "different battlefield"... you win and you don't get muddy.  Or she decides to stay "way over yonder"... .and get muddy all by herself.

Either way... .you are much better off.

Thoughts?

FF