credit card debt when divorcing?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi all... .sorry if this question is not allowed.  Please delete if not as it is related to CC debt and divorce rather than specific to BPD and/or our child.  I plan on asking my lawyer, but I am freaking out and would love answers from someone who has been through it.  I know it may be state specific (I'm in Michigan) but does anyone know if my stb ex will still be liable for CC debt that is now in my name only?

We had a semi-large balance on our credit card through our bank, so it was in both of our names, and we both (he more than me but that's beside the point) accrued the debt during our marriage.  To make headway and pay more toward principle, I transferred the balance to two new cards with a 0% APR, but I wasn't thinking and these new cards are only in my name.  I can add him as an authorized user, but that doesn't make him liable for the balance.

Can I just show the court that "here is our balance that we both accrued (that account is still open) and here I transferred X amount to the new cards, which are in my name, but there is a clear paper trail of the balance being transferred"?  Will that suffice to keep him liable for the debt, or does it really not matter either way since the debt was created during our marriage? 

Thanks for any advice!

[WantToBeFree]

Hi all... .sorry if this question is not allowed.  Please delete if not as it is related to CC debt and divorce rather than specific to BPD and/or our child.  I plan on asking my lawyer, but I am freaking out and would love answers from someone who has been through it.  I know it may be state specific (I'm in Michigan) but does anyone know if my stb ex will still be liable for CC debt that is now in my name only?

We had a semi-large balance on our credit card through our bank, so it was in both of our names, and we both (he more than me but that's beside the point) accrued the debt during our marriage.  To make headway and pay more toward principle, I transferred the balance to two new cards with a 0% APR, but I wasn't thinking and these new cards are only in my name.  I can add him as an authorized user, but that doesn't make him liable for the balance.

Can I just show the court that "here is our balance that we both accrued (that account is still open) and here I transferred X amount to the new cards, which are in my name, but there is a clear paper trail of the balance being transferred"?  Will that suffice to keep him liable for the debt, or does it really not matter either way since the debt was created during our marriage? 

Thanks for any advice!

[livednlearned]

I'm not sure how it works where you live, but where I am, having a card in my name only did not make it my debt. It would've after date of separation, but not during the marriage, prior to filing for divorce.   

We went through a financial affadavit and listed all of our assets and debts. Everything was marital debt. Then the lawyers got out their pencils and scribbled away (a little too fast and loose, imo) and we had some numbers to work with, based in part on income, earning potential, and whatnot.

If it doesn't work that way where you live, there are other ways to level the playing field. For example, you might end up with all the debt, but you might also end up with more of the assets if there are any.

The bigger issue for me was figuring out how to minimize any kind of dependence on his compliance. He paid off my car note and then had the paperwork sent to him. I could not get the car title from him and had to go back to court multiple times to get it, among other things that normal people would simply hand over and be done with it.

I don't know what your financial situation is like, but if you can get a bigger slice of the 401K and assume the debt, that's more advantageous because then you aren't worrying about whether he is paying down shared debt, affecting your credit history.

[flourdust]

If the debt was incurred during marriage, it's a joint liability as you suspect. Having the paper trail showing the transfer dates and amounts can be helpful if he chooses to contest that.

Generally, the assets and liabilities will be split up on a spreadsheet called a property equalizer which shows that the total amounts of assets minus liabilities is split equally between you (or whatever arrangement you have come to). Since it's pretty difficult to get a credit card company to divide the debt, usually one of you will take the full debt from a credit card with the other one getting half that amount subtracted from their share of assets. Make sense?

And credit card payments are factored into your budgets, which can have an implication for how much is available for a spousal maintenance award.

[WantToBeFree]

Thank you both, that helps a lot!  I was worried I would have to go transfer the debt to two more new cards, but this time in both of our names.  It's much much easier to leave as is and not worry. 

And on a different note Livednlearned, I'm sorry you had to go through that with your car title.  But it reminded me that I need to be careful about things like that.  We own a camper, and a campground membership.  I am not yet sure what will happen to the camper but we may have to sell it to take our shares of it... .I just got back from camping with my daughter, and the whole time I was reminded how much I love it and how I wish we could keep it, and share it so our daughter can still go camping.

I, as many of us spouses/SO's of BPD's are I am sure, am a rational fair person.  I would be sure to hold up my end of the camper, pay for half of any repairs or maintenance, etc.  But you reminded me that our ex's are not fair, rational people, and it's a very bad idea to share anything outside of our daughter (and even that is hard).  At worst he wouldn't pay for his share of repairs, make it hard for me to use it, and at best, he would likely never clean it after using it, leaving a mess for me.  So thanks for that reminder and the CC advice!

[david]

If you really want the camper I would suggest that you not let anyone but your attorney know. Anything I wanted my ex would fight like mad to not give up. Once I stopped "caring" about things ex lost interest in them too. Remember, you are dealing with emotions. Anything I wanted my ex had to hurt me by fighting. In the beginning that would trigger me and I would try to reason/explain my position etc. That only increased the chaos.
We had to sell our house. Ex insisted I could not use my friend, who was a real estate agent, as the agent even though he said he would take his percent and put it in a fund for our boys. Sounded simple enough to me. Ex said no. I was sitting in a room with her and suggested she pick the agent. I then suggested there was a for sale sign at such and such a location and we could use the person. I told her she could drive by the place and get the number. Ex turned around and said I had to do it. I said okay. The person with the for sale sign was my friends mother in law. She kept her cut.

[livednlearned]

I am not yet sure what will happen to the camper but we may have to sell it to take our shares of it... .I just got back from camping with my daughter, and the whole time I was reminded how much I love it and how I wish we could keep it, and share it so our daughter can still go camping.

Even if you agree to sell it, try to tweak the language in your order it so that you have leverage in some way shape or form. Or at the very least, explicit instructions on what will happen if xyz does not happen by day/date, including you taking a whack at what you're trying to accomplish if he doesn't. Everything should have a date and a contingency or plan B and plan C. Otherwise you get to the BPD stonewall and can't move ahead without a judge weighing in.

Better to think 5 steps ahead. And if you do have to go back before a judge, you can point to the agreement and say, Here. This is what we agreed to do.

Then you are at least paying for a judge to rule in favor of what you agreed to, as opposed to a judge giving your ex three and four bites of the apple.

[david]

Conflict is a way to stay engaged and that is what my ex wanted, at least that is what I came to believe.
The less emotion I showed I noticed her behaviors/allegations/etc became more over the top. It took me a few years to completely detach emotionally from my ex. Nothing she does phases me anymore. That really helped in our last custody eval. She made some really idiotic allegations that no one would believe and when she was challenged she dug her heels in and refused to change her position. We actually had a ten month co parent counseling order from a judge. By the third meeting she got so unbelievable the counselor asked me if I thought more time would change things. She actually created a major blowup about a school bag of all things. I said this is what I have been experiencing for the last 5 plus years and I did not think this would help. He told me I could leave and this would be the last time I had to go. I questioned him since this was a court order with a ten month time frame. He said he would write a letter to the judge and I would be fine. I thanked him, got up, and left. I believe he met ex some more times but I I don't know for sure.

[ForeverDad]

Even if you agree to sell it, try to tweak the language in your order it so that you have leverage in some way shape or form... .

Better to think 5 steps ahead. And if you do have to go back before a judge, you can point to the agreement and say, Here. This is what we agreed to do.

Then you are at least paying for a judge to rule in favor of what you agreed to, as opposed to a judge giving your ex three and four bites of the apple.

Leverage is crucial.  Most disordered, misbehaving spouses may be very messed up and unreasonable but almost always they know the value of $$$.  Use that knowledge to your advantage.

If you will owe the ex $$$, the house or whatever, then make sure ex doesn't get the last large chunk, for example hold it in escrow or safekeeping, until ex has fully complied with ex's obligations to you.  What you have held in escrow is your Leverage for compliance.

Yes, the order may state ex must do whatever, but courts are notorious for not enforcing their own orders.  Practical enforcement is your challenge to weave into the settlement.  For example, ex may get the house in the settlement and have to refinance to get your name off the mortgage.  Don't hand over the quit claim deed to ex.  Let your lawyer hold it in safekeeping until the day of the refinancing.  Only then is it handed over to those lawyers.  What if he never gets around to refinancing?  Then have the settlement or order state that if not refinanced by XX date then court has you take over possession, selecting a realtor, prep work, showings, sale and if ex doesn't sign then court will sign in his name, thereafter the proceeds can be split however.  See?  Think 5 steps ahead.  Anticipate the ways you can be sabotaged.  You can't possibly close all the gotcha loopholes, but you can sure do your best to address the obvious or costly ones.