Strategies for custody before hearing

[lpheal]

I have not posted in a while, but am very close to filing for divorce from my uBPD wife. There has been abuse (constant verbal) against me for several years (low level put downs of me almost daily), but nothing physical in the past six months (other than slapping my legs last week). Never any evidence of abuse toward our child. My plan had initially been to file a TRO at the same time.

My current L feels the case for a TRO is not strong right now (no recent major physical abuse). So if I were to file for divorce now, it would be without a TRO and my wife could easily choose not to go along with my proposed custody plan. I was planning to suggest 50/50 based on best interests of the child.  She could decide to not agree and it would be two months before a custody hearing. L says having those two months out of the house would hurt my position as she could potentially be doing all of the child care. Status quo would then be favored at the custody hearing. If this happened I could visit child at daycare during the week and document all her attempts at blocking my access... .which could count against her when the custody hearing finally arrives. Nevertheless though, leaving the house puts me at a big disadvantage. I simply cannot see staying in the same house after filing though.

I realize it is absolutely impossible to predict how people with BPD will react, but has anyone faced a similar situation in the past? If so how did you manage it?

[Newyoungfather]

First and foremost, congrats on breaking free, this was the toughest part for me.  I would absolutely plan for the worst case scenario. Do you have vacation time at work, unpaid leave, prepare to use time for the best interest of your child.  I would advise some type of bug out bag and escape plan.  My unBPD loves the threat of filing false PFA's.  Talk with your L on how false allegations will be handle, get a body camera or have a witness for child pickups. Meet at a police station.  Be strong too, it only gets better when time goes on.  I was never married so I can't help you on the divorce side but as far as child custody I've been put through every last scenerio possible by exBPD.  Always remain calm, never let her get under your skin.

[ForeverDad]

By accident or happenstance, my separation was rough for a week but ended up favorable for me, well, partly.  It was a Sunday and she left in a huff for morning services while I was putting shoes on our preschooler.  While I did have a car seat too, it was in pieces because I was going to wash the fabric.  I sensed she would not be in a good mood when we got back and made sure my voice recorder was charged and in my pocket.  Sure enough, she was fuming and soon got triggered.  I recorded when she said she'd k!ll me, twice, once before I call 911, and again afterward.  Well a couple officers came, they talked a while with her, briefly with me.  One asked me to hand son over to his mother and "step away".  Months later my lawyer told me I would have been carted off, perhaps arrested, since police policy here is to defuse the immediate incident and that usually means man leaves. Didn't happen since my son, until then quietly sniffling in my arms, shrieked and clung tighter when I tried to comply.  The officer just looked at me for a while, said 'work it out' and they left.  (Who would have thought that my 3yo son's reaction in refusing to go to his mother would save me?)

Anyway, she stomped around the house for a few days.  Something with the headphone jack stopped the speaker from working so I had to download when ex wasn't near.  In those models Olympus made you use their software interface to download.  Then I called the police when she wasn't around and an officer listened to my before, during, and after 911 call.  I filled out a report and he handled it, she was arrested before week's end.  While her case was pending I had a TPO giving me possession of the house, it was nearly 4 months before the trial when she was declared Not Guilty (that's a story in itself).

That was the good part.  The bad part was domestic court.  She sought protection from me (tit for tat) and included our son.  She had to list the pending case against her in the other court but I never got any indication the magistrate looked it up.  His sole question was, What are your work schedules?  I replied I worked a regular 5 day schedule, she said she worked from home.  Yes, the home she couldn't approach.  So she got temp custody and temp majority time.  It was two years before I got equal time in the Final Decree.  Three more years before I became Legal Guardian.  Nearly three more years before I got majority time during the school year.

Advice about temp order hearings... .  They're brief, maybe a half hour.  My lawyer told me "Shh, don't speak, we'll fix it later."  He thought I was getting off lightly, alternate weekends with her filing allegations against me.  But the fixes came two years later when the Final Decree locked in our eventual settlement.  So understand that temp orders are important.  Our cases last much longer than expected for a normal divorce case.  My lawyer had estimated 7-9 months.  It was 23.5 months.  So try your best to get the best temp order possible from the very start.

Her obstructing or even blocking your parenting while waiting for your initial court hearing is predictable.  However much you will imagine her blocking would Shock the court, it won't.  They let a lot of unfairness go unaddressed.  They expect reasonably normal parents will eventually figure out they have to cooperate and let go the conflict.  Not with our sort of cases.  But court will assume you both are reasonably normal until demonstrated otherwise, which means you'll get trashed repeatedly with little in the way of consequences for her.

That's how it was with my court.  Hopefully your experience will be better than mine.  That doesn't mean you don't stand up for yourself, you do!  Get on the record what you see as predictable problems and present your practical solutions to avoid conflict and encourage compliance.  As I wrote, the hearing will be very brief, you can't list everything but at least get your primary issues and proposed solutions on the record, if you can.

[lpheal]

Something I have noticed about my wife is the potential for her behavior to be made known to others is terrifying to her. I don't know if this is common or anyone else has noticed this. With that in mind, I keep wondering if there is an avenue through this using the threat or possibility of all of her actions going before a judge. From the collective experience here and the book Splitting, it seems like it won't happen though.

I'm also trying to keep away from the mindset that it's not about me winning or losing, it's about my child not losing that concerns me more.

[livednlearned]

Something I have noticed about my wife is the potential for her behavior to be made known to others is terrifying to her. I don't know if this is common or anyone else has noticed this. With that in mind, I keep wondering if there is an avenue through this using the threat or possibility of all of her actions going before a judge. From the collective experience here and the book Splitting, it seems like it won't happen though.

What does your L say about doing a custody evaluation including a psychiatric eval?

[worriedStepmom]

Something I have noticed about my wife is the potential for her behavior to be made known to others is terrifying to her. I don't know if this is common or anyone else has noticed this. With that in mind, I keep wondering if there is an avenue through this using the threat or possibility of all of her actions going before a judge. From the collective experience here and the book Splitting, it seems like it won't happen though.

My H's uBPDex is also terrified that other people know of her behavior and/or her diagnosis (anxiety disorder).  She firmly believes that once people find out, CPS will come and she will never be able to see her daughter again ever - even though she's also quite convinced she's done nothing wrong.  She used to be a case worker for CPS, so she ought to know better, but her disorder won't allow her to think logically.

This worked in our favor when my H thought it was time to get primary custody of SD11. uBPDex was willing to sign my H's prepared paperwork rather than go to court (because she thought the court would immediately take her daughter away forever).  There was a lot of dysregulation between the time he told her he'd initiated the custody modification process and the time she agreed to sign, but we got through that because we didn't have to live with her - and we tried hard to make sure she only found out about court-related stuff when SD was with us and therefore not exposed to as much of the crazy.

You know your W best - how likely is she to fight vs give in (after a heavy chunk of verbal abuse)? 

[lpheal]

What does your L say about doing a custody evaluation including a psychiatric eval?

We haven't had a specific conversation about that yet. In general they have said my wife would have to have an extensive arrest history or serious substance abuse problem to get less than 50/50 custody in this county. The TRO would change that however.

I'm not trying to ruin her life or prevent her from being a mother. I just want some peace and quiet when I am at my home, and I want to enjoy my time as a dad. I also don't think she is as disordered around our child. If our child becomes rebellious in later years and this triggers the behavior again I could initiate a separate fight down the road for increasing custody.

[lpheal]

My H's uBPDex is also terrified that other people know of her behavior and/or her diagnosis (anxiety disorder).  She firmly believes that once people find out, CPS will come and she will never be able to see her daughter again ever - even though she's also quite convinced she's done nothing wrong.  She used to be a case worker for CPS, so she ought to know better, but her disorder won't allow her to think logically.

This worked in our favor when my H thought it was time to get primary custody of SD11. uBPDex was willing to sign my H's prepared paperwork rather than go to court (because she thought the court would immediately take her daughter away forever).  There was a lot of dysregulation between the time he told her he'd initiated the custody modification process and the time she agreed to sign, but we got through that because we didn't have to live with her - and we tried hard to make sure she only found out about court-related stuff when SD was with us and therefore not exposed to as much of the crazy.

You know your W best - how likely is she to fight vs give in (after a heavy chunk of verbal abuse)? 

My best guess is that if I file without a restraining order, she is going to get mad as hell and send a barrage of phone calls and text messages to me. She will then shift and become apologetic and say I wish we could just talk about this, me leaving is not helping the situation. When I say the decision is final it will go to WW3. If she goes too far with the calls and text messages (30 calls overnight, etc) though, my L says she would file the TRO the next day and I would then become the full-time parent until a hearing.

Ultimately I don't really know how she would react of course. She can be a very logical person when not around me, but the disorder kicks in within the relationship. I still shake my head at how different she appears when we are around others vs at home.

[ForeverDad]

She can be a very logical person when not around me, but the disorder kicks in within the relationship. I still shake my head at how different she appears when we are around others vs at home.

BPD is a disorder most evident in close relationships... .the closer the relationship, the greater the extremes.  Partly it is like they feel the relationship obligates their mates to suffer their erratic moods.  It's that sense of emotional leverage to enables them to demand compliance, appeasement or retreat.

There is a wide range of behaviors under the Borderline list of traits.  Some sabotage themselves more, as waifs or hermits.  Some sabotage others more, as queens/kings or witches.

Most people would say "they're a little off" because they're not in close contact.  They can wear a mask of seeming normalcy in public but in private settings they feel free to let loose their feelings and perceptions.  The closer the contact, the more acting out there is and the more evident and impacting it is.

[Turkish]

What would be the purpose of the TRO? It's surely an escalation but is it necessary?

Something I have noticed about my wife is the potential for her behavior to be made known to others is terrifying to her.

Though my ex is no stranger to the courts  (she got an RO against the bf before me,  and filed and tried to serve a TRO against her current husband's brother), she said several times., "we don't need to go to court, " regarding custody. She didn't want to file anything,  but I wasn't going to do that.  What she wanted was unreasonable and irrelevant.  My gut feeling then was that she was afraid of being exposed. 

I retained a lawyer and used my best talents and the tools here to draw up a joint custody plan and served her though mail. We negotiated the CS a little differently, and filed with the court.  Two months later it was signed by a judge.  I kept her abreast off the process and kept couching it in terms,  "this protects all of us and especially the children."

FWIW, my ex was violent with her current husband,  but not physically with me other than breaking things a couple of times. 

[livednlearned]

They can wear a mask of seeming normalcy in public but in private settings they feel free to let loose their feelings and perceptions. 

To be fair, this is true of people with or without BPD.

Most people feel stronger feelings with people who are important to them. And most people are able to express seeming normalcy in public, for periods of time.

It's the regulation of those feelings, the volatility of them, how they are expressed, and the devastatingly immature ways in which emotions are managed that can be traumatic.

[worriedStepmom]

My best guess is that if I file without a restraining order, she is going to get mad as hell and send a barrage of phone calls and text messages to me. She will then shift and become apologetic and say I wish we could just talk about this, me leaving is not helping the situation. When I say the decision is final it will go to WW3. If she goes too far with the calls and text messages (30 calls overnight, etc) though, my L says she would file the TRO the next day and I would then become the full-time parent until a hearing.

Ultimately I don't really know how she would react of course. She can be a very logical person when not around me, but the disorder kicks in within the relationship. I still shake my head at how different she appears when we are around others vs at home.

Your W *will not* react logically to this.  (Even undisordered people are very very emotional and can act a bit crazy when confronted with a divorce and losing time with their kids.  When you're upset, you want to turn to the person who has always been there - your spouse - only they don't want you anymore.  Add in BPD, and it's a tornado of awful.)   When H told uBPDex that he was filing the custody modification, she happened to be in public.  She reacted very calmly... and then as soon as she got home the dysregulation.

H's uBPDex basically responded exactly as you described to both their divorce and then to him filing a custody modification... .the cycle took about a month. What does WW3 look like in your mind?  False allegations of abuse?  Physical violence?  Upping the harrassment level?  [For us, it was an increase in the phone harrassment, attempting to emotionally manipulate/alienate the child, and then uBPDex tried to interfere with SD11's therapy appointments, because she decided the therapist was at fault for forcing this decision on my H.]

Our L for the custody modification told H to do his thing and let uBPDex hang herself with her behaviors.  When he expressed unease with that - the FOG is thick, and we're all used to appeasing them - she said it was better that he suffer and we have proof of the crazy so he could get more custody rather than let uBPDex take it all out on SD in private.  Our goal was to structure the visitation so we got more time and uBPDex didn't have more than 3 days in a row, because more than that is stressful for both mom and child.  uBPDex does not consider the new schedule "fair" in any way, shape, or form... .but my H is convinced it's in the best interests of SD and can articulate the reasons why.  Make sure that you can do the same, in detail, for your proposed parenting schedule.

When the barrage of phone calls and texts gets that bad, we turn H's phone off.  UBPDex doesn't contact me anymore - I threatened to file a complaint with the police for harassment and that stopped that.

[lpheal]

What would be the purpose of the TRO? It's surely an escalation but is it necessary?

There has been physical abuse the past few years, but since January there hasn't been much (largely because I was away for work a lot). That was the initial reason for the TRO when talking with the L last year. I do think there is still the threat of it. I left the house after an abusive event in front of our child two years ago and that overnight she called my phone non-stop (something like 90 times) all night. I am so much better prepared mentally now than I was then, and this site has a lot to do with that. Still it would make for some very stressful days dealing with it and balancing child care and a stressful job.

She has soured on the relationship quite a bit the past two years, now regularly talking like "I'm not her person" in life. Last night she said "I don't want this anymore" and even used the word divorce. Of course she then wants to know how I'm going to dig myself out of the hole I have created. So I view all of it as a trap, because if I were to try and talk to her about divorce further it would get ugly fast. However, it makes me feel like there could be an opening if I present her with a reasonable exit strategy. Again, I'm not looking to ruin her life or destroy her just have a safe exit for everyone. I told my L I don't look at any of this as either of us winning or losing, just minimizing the loss for our child. Anything that is a win for the child is a win for me.

So the current thought by the L is file for divorce, and see how she behaves. Again, if she acts against me the TRO would get filed next day. If she contacts the L (we would include a letter) as L will recommend, we could hope for her to then get her own reasonable representation and maybe even agree to mediation. I feel like a reasonable person would do that if they were this unhappy, but everyone knows that isn't the case with BPD.

[livednlearned]

Do you think it's possible that if you mention divorce, she could physically abuse you, but then call 911 and make a false allegation?

I see your Ls point about filing the TRO the next day. I would also want to know exactly what happens in your state when someone calls 911 for a DV incident.

Each state has a different way of handling things. Some states will arrest both parties if a third party makes the call. Some will arrest the biggest person. Or the person who appears inebriated.

If you do mention divorce, are you in a state where you can record? If not, sometimes you can record and show the police (the laws on this seem so fuzzy these days), but not use the recording in court.

I would want to know the minute-by-minute plan for what happens to you and your child after mentioning divorce, including what you say and do, and all the contingencies, then what your L does the next day based on those contingencies.

Some states also mandate that you file charges if you make a DV call (Washington is like this, I believe, although it could be a county level thing).

If so, it's good to know that so you can prepare. 

[lpheal]

Do you think it's possible that if you mention divorce, she could physically abuse you, but then call 911 and make a false allegation?

I see your Ls point about filing the TRO the next day. I would also want to know exactly what happens in your state when someone calls 911 for a DV incident.

Each state has a different way of handling things. Some states will arrest both parties if a third party makes the call. Some will arrest the biggest person. Or the person who appears inebriated.

If you do mention divorce, are you in a state where you can record? If not, sometimes you can record and show the police (the laws on this seem so fuzzy these days), but not use the recording in court.

I would want to know the minute-by-minute plan for what happens to you and your child after mentioning divorce, including what you say and do, and all the contingencies, then what your L does the next day based on those contingencies.

Some states also mandate that you file charges if you make a DV call (Washington is like this, I believe, although it could be a county level thing).

If so, it's good to know that so you can prepare. 

I really appreciate these comments you are sharing. I've gotten vague answers from every attorney I've spoken with about what happens with a 911 call. I'm really scared to do that, because it just feels like it could really go wrong for me if I did call. Recording is not allowed in this state. Most attorneys haven't even wanted to talk about it. Some of the more pragmatic ones have said if she says something in a public space (which never happens) just record it (hard to do on short notice), and one said if you did need to call 911 just start recording and play it for the police. It wouldn't be admissible, but they could at least understand what was going on when called to the house. That combined with one person having alcohol in the system might be enough to show them who was in the wrong.

Like you said, I wish I had a minute-by-minute numbered sequence of things to do or a flow chart in my mind about how to react to whatever could happen in the immediate aftermath of serving her. I feel like even 72 hours or a week later it would start getting easier, but it's so hard to guess at the time of being served. I do think it is likely that there would be physical abuse if I mentioned divorce to her in person. I took the MOSAIC threat assessment last year and I think the concern is real. The L recommended not telling her and just serving her. L said they could send her an email saying to expect paperwork to attempt to minimize the embarrassment of being served. However, I'm sure a millisecond after that call she would be on the phone with me demanding to know what is going on. Would I talk to her, reply by text or say nothing? Our child would be a school, so I would need to figure out what would happen with them the rest of that day. Do I coordinate pick up from school just before being served? Do I disappear for the first night and let my wife pick her up per usual? Where do we go? What do I do if wife threatens suicide? All of those types of questions.

I get further and further along each week figuring this out, but this is where I am at right now. If there is a prior thread or a site that has such a checklist someone could share it would be appreciated. I can't tell you how elated I would be to get served by her, but I just don't think it would happen. I'm an emotional punching bag that is useful to have around.

[david]

I live in Pennsylvania. You are not allowed to record in my state.

Because of the law my recordings are not allowed to be used in court. I can show the police that arrive and they can view it themselves in order to prevent me from getting arrested. I would make sure your attorney concurs with that and not take my word.

I was arrested, charged with assault, and found guilty of disorderly conduct. Went to jail for two weeks and had to take a leave of absence for 5 years from my job until I could get the charge expunged. That only works for summary offenses in my state.

When I got out of jail I purchased a small video recorder and also a small audio recorder. The first time I went to pick our boys up ex came out of her place and approached my car. That is in violation of our custody order. I pointed my video camera at her and she uturned back into her place. Same thing happened the second time. Ex brought it up in court at least a half dozen times after that. It could have been more. The only consequence I got was a judge yelling at me. After a few times of this I asked the judge if I could ask a question. He paused and said what do I want to ask. I asked him for advice on how to protect myself from false allegations if I am not allowed to record. I got yelled at some more. I asked in a humble and respectful manner.

My attorney told me I needed to stop recording because I might have consequences at some future time. I thought about it for a day or two and called my attorney. I asked him if I could point the camera at myself to show I was doing nothing wrong. The fact that ex may be near me and yelling or something and get caught on the recording is simply an accident especially since she is supposed to stay in her residence during pick ups. Also,  the judge can disregard ex in the recording and just see and hear me doing nothing wrong. The camera time stamps everything. My attorney said he could argue that in court and to do just that.

I would have bet anything my ex would never do anything remotely near the things she has done. I have learned to accept she will do anything she thinks she can do and get away with.
 

[ForeverDad]

A valid question is, How much trouble would I be in if I recorded?  After all, some of the laws sound a bit scary.  Three years, five years?  Guess what?  I've been here for a dozen years and I don't recall any posts of our members reporting getting arrested for recording.  Maybe on the fingers of one hand a few members were told to stop recording.  I recall at least one case where they were told to stop recording the children.  And of course David was told to stop recording and so he decided to record himself to prove he wasn't the aggressive one.  I have concluded that there is not much legal risk, especially considering all the ways a person can record these days.

However, you would need to do so in a non-threatening and respectful way.  Don't wave it around as a threat or taunt, best to keep it low key.  My ex always knew I might be recording and she sometimes even taunted me to go ahead and record her, but I always kept it in my shirt pocket or out of sight.  I didn't want to needlessly trigger her.  It was solely (1) to document the incident and (2) be insurance like a Get Out Of Jail Card proving I wasn't the one behaving poorly.

Historically courts have been reluctant to listen to recordings, for various reasons.  One is that the court has only limited time for each case, most hearings are only a half hour or so.  Another is that the court can't trust that the incident wasn't staged or edited by the person recording.  For example, what if the one recording first called the other, cursed and yelled and then hung up, then the recorder was turned on when the other called back and started ranting and raging, made to look like the one behaving badly?

Eventually, after several years in and out of court, a magistrate did listen to my recordings.  I had to play each one, state when I had recorded and that they were true and complete and unedited.  Then they were played when my ex was on the stand and she stated for each one, "That's my voice but I don't remember saying that."  In the decision the magistrate wrote, "In the tapes Mother is often yelling so loudly that it is difficult to endure listening to her."  The court decision noted, six times, that I was being disparaged, one quote was "continued disparagement of Father to the child".  We haven't been back to court since.

Many have reported that courts somehow manage to avoid getting recordings on the record.  Maybe it is partly because courts expect the conflict to dissipate once the divorce is over and don't want one parent looking the winner and the other the loser.  Whatever the reasons the court has, we have noticed that the professionals around the court such as police, CPS investigators, custody evaluators, etc are more likely to listen to our documentation and allow it to guide their conclusions.

[livednlearned]

It's good that you are thoughtfully putting the pieces together and taking time to see what works best for your family.

I'm so sorry you have to experience the daily put-downs. That really takes a toll and makes it hard to think straight, much less plan a sensitive exit strategy. I took a year to plan, and even though things didn't go exactly according to plan, it was so helpful that I was 6 steps ahead, not just for my safety but for my ex's safety, too. I didn't know what would happen, whether he would be suicidal, whether he would become violent. It's so hard to know, but it's good to be prepared for the worst.

I've gotten vague answers from every attorney I've spoken with about what happens with a 911 call. I'm really scared to do that, because it just feels like it could really go wrong for me if I did call.

Maybe you can look up whether you live in a "mandatory arrest" state. These are states that tend to have the most draconian intimate partner abuse laws, where if you call 911, you have to file a charge. Or, it could be that the officer's have discretion to determine who is the perpetrator, in which maybe it's that they mandate who must file charges? In some mandatory arrest states, if a victim does not press charges, it's considered obstruction of justice  

I'm not sure what year this came out, but here's something that might help you (from the American Bar Association): https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/images/domestic_violence/Domestic%20Violence%20Arrest%20Policies%20by%20State%202011%20(complete).pdf

I believe the other term is dual-arrest, where both parties will be arrested regardless of who places the call.

There have been studies on police responses to DV. Sometimes it comes down to law, but a lot of times it can be dictated by police culture in that jurisdiction. Would you feel comfortable calling, or having someone call, local law enforcement to let them know you are concerned, as a male victim of female-to-male violence, of calling 911, and want to know how things are handled where you live?

[lpheal]

Unfortunately it was not a good holiday weekend. The pattern for the past several weeks has been 2-3 hours of yelling at me after our child goes to bed about all of my shortcomings. I put our child to bed last night and some nights I fall asleep as well from exhaustion. Last night she came in and said, "Are you done spooning with your child?" and demanded I talk. She has her "valid" reasons for feeling the way she does. Yes, I was trying to keep a safe distance most of the holiday weekend and engage in safe conversations. When she wants to talk about the big topics ("why are you a habitual liar?") which is based to a large extent on distortions and gaslighting I'm not inclined to want to talk... .especially when she has had half a bottle of wine or more.

She started with a string of insults, calls me an MFer, and so I stand up to leave the room saying that isn't a conversation. She follows me starts grabbing me and pulling at my clothes. I get downstairs and try to put me shoes on and she starts hitting me, demanding I don't walk out on her when she is angry and needs to express it (or something like that). She calms down enough to talk without the physical abuse behavior, and toward the end she wants to know what I am going to do to be a different person and improve the relationship right here and now (to me: "you should be on your knees begging for forgiveness.") or she is going to work out a custody schedule tomorrow (today). For about 30 minutes she kept asking, what do you think is a reasonable arrangement for you? (for seeing our child). The conversation last night ended with me not answering her questions sufficiently and her saying she was done.

It's too bad she is in a deranged state of mind. The simple answers to her questions are: (1) I don't know how to be a different person - and I'm not a bad person, (2) I'm leaving the house right now and 50/50 is a reasonable custody arrangement. You get a lawyer and I'll get one and we'll sort it out. You'll have a house and financial support while it's handled, but if you try to impact my relationship with my child and take more than what you deserve you will meet resistance and see a side of me that you don't see right now.

It feels like an end game at this point, but I'm stuck on finding the safe exit strategy. If I walked in this evening and in a rational voice heard my wife say, "I am finished." I would be so relieved. Can the deranged part of her thinking become so prominent that she could actually initiate the process soon? I think I'm practicing a grey rock technique or words like that, and am now wondering if I keep it up will she take action?

Up until it hasn't felt passive-aggressive to me, just a defense mechanism. However, it could be a reasonably safe exit strategy... .though done deliberately it would be passive-aggressive behavior if I am honest.

[ForeverDad]

You would feel relief if she said, "I am finished.  I'm filing for divorce."  Right?  That is a reflection of your indecision, hoping she will take that step and not you.  There's a problem.  Do you really want her to file?  Do you really think she would list "irreconcilable differences" and leave it emotionally neutral?  Yeah, I thought not.  She would be sure to paint you as Mr Evil Personified and make huge allegations.  Then your response would be, No I'm not.  You could be playing catch up.

In the past it was usually said it didn't matter who filed first.  However, it doesn't have to be a surprise.  For example, in some states the one who files can seek possession of the home and children too.  Usually control of custody and parenting are determined at a later hearing to set the "temporary" order.  But if you've already been claimed to be Bad, then you'll be the one scrutinized and probably not her.  (The one who poses as target or victim often isn't given a psych eval, just that accused.  Ponder that.

In my case, I did file for divorce.  I was forevermore the Petitioner and she was forevermore the Defendant.  I was fair and truthful in my filing, I left emotional feeling out of it.  It didn't stop her from claiming I was essentially Mr Evil Personified.  Nor did I get preferential treatment in custody and parenting, she still got her default mother preferences.  But it felt less bad to me.  I was able to stand up as a father and state those were her too-late "sour grapes" because the relationship ended, even if it didn't get much attention with the professionals around court.

[david]

Back in 2007 we were still in the same house. Ex used to tell me I was depressed. In that time period she checked herself into a mental health facility with the help our one of her sons and my stepson. She went in on a Friday and since they had minimal staff they wanted her to stay. EX refused and the facility went to court on Monday. They released her later that day because the laws said she could only stay if 1) she wanted to voluntarily  or 2) she said she was going to harm herself.  
By then I started reading books on depression and bi polar disorder because of suggestions by friends and her friend and physician. One night she was upstairs and I was reading a book on depression. She came downstairs and went into a mild rage about the book I was reading. She went off on how I was trying to make her look like she was crazy. She went on for about 15 minutes. I was very calm at the time. When I had a chance to speak I said in a very calm and low voice that I was reading the book because she said I was depressed and I wanted to learn about it. She instantly calmed down. I believe it was because I was putting the "blame" on myself.
You might want to, when she asks you how you are going to dig yourself out of the hole you created", turn it around and say I am not sure what to do and ask her what she thinks. This may work or it may explode on you. I was able to do things like that a few times but only when I was completely calm.

[lpheal]

Nor did I get preferential treatment in custody and parenting, she still got her default mother preferences.

I've been told that she would get default preferences as well, unless there was a restraining order in place. I would love to have a crystal ball to know how she would react to different strategies, which would help know what to do. Mentally I'm ready to be done, but I want to safety plan and make sure I've considered the contingencies.

[lpheal]

You might want to, when she asks you how you are going to dig yourself out of the hole you created", turn it around and say I am not sure what to do and ask her what she thinks. This may work or it may explode on you. I was able to do things like that a few times but only when I was completely calm.

I've tried that  I get the response, "I'm not going to do all of the work in this relationship. You have to do this yourself." Or words to that effect.

[Turkish]

The second sentence contradicts the first. 

"So I hear that you want me to do all of the work in the relationship."

Might not go over well 

[livednlearned]

Can the deranged part of her thinking become so prominent that she could actually initiate the process soon?

I think this question comes more from a deep place of weariness. These marriages can bring us to our knees with fatigue, not to mention the chronic state of fear and grief.

She is not unhappy in the marriage, she is unhappy in herself. You are part of the charade, she cannot see you clearly because there is nothing separating who she is from you.

I think I'm practicing a grey rock technique or words like that, and am now wondering if I keep it up will she take action?

Up until it hasn't felt passive-aggressive to me, just a defense mechanism. However, it could be a reasonably safe exit strategy... .though done deliberately it would be passive-aggressive behavior if I am honest.

I commend you for being honest. The more you understand what motivates your actions, the more likely you will understand what you need to heal.

There were times when I was preparing to leave that I felt a sense of power when I hurt my ex. Sometimes it was something as small as failing to pick up his alcohol. Once I saw he had a flat tire and didn't tell him. We do what we can to carve out a place where we can exist, especially in a relationship where there is no room for us to breathe. Sometimes we are so kicked down that these small victories help us build to something stronger.

But if you are going to detach, do it because you are ready to disconnect and are mentally and emotionally preparing to take care of yourself.

Do it because you are ready to make yourself whole.

[david]

It could be she is trying to get out of you what your strategy is. When we were married I was open about whatever she wanted to talk about. I found it difficult when we separated to not do that especially if we spoke. I switched to email communication only and that was one of the reasons.
I then learned how to divulge as little as possible about my thinking. I only state facts, keep my emails as brief as possible, and never take any of the bait she puts in her emails. This gave me an immense advantage. Without input from me ex would make all kinds of wild accusations against me. Over time she, I believe, thought of them as truth. The last few times in court she brought things up from an email she sent accusing me of something. She had no proof and looked rather foolish. She also did things like that in our last custody eval, and our court ordered co parent counseling. In fact we were ordered to go to counseling for ten months. After the third meeting the counselor asked me if I thought going to more meetings would be helpful. I said no and basically said this was my "normal" when dealing with ex. He said I could go and he would let the judge know he recommended I not attend anymore.

[lpheal]

I think this question comes more from a deep place of weariness. These marriages can bring us to our knees with fatigue, not to mention the chronic state of fear and grief.


But if you are going to detach, do it because you are ready to disconnect and are mentally and emotionally preparing to take care of yourself.

Do it because you are ready to make yourself whole.

It's interesting, the other night when my wife said she was going to work out a custody arrangement yesterday (which she did not do) I felt a sense of relief and fell asleep almost immediately (and I've been lying awake each night for weeks) that an end might be near. That told me where I'm at mentally.

Also I noticed when my L said leaving the house and filing could put me at a disadvantage in the legal setting, my thought was "I'm not looking for someone to win and someone to lose. I just want my child to lose as little as possible in the process." I realized I hadn't fully thought through the process of leaving and how to do it properly, so I'm very thankful you sent the link on No Contact.

[livednlearned]

Deciding to leave is a bit about choosing to do an overhaul on yourself.

You won't be the same person afterwards.

It is true that we have to have our legal ducks in a row and know how things work where we live, how those specifics affect our case.

We also have to recognize that it takes tremendous effort. The hardest part for me was not surviving the abuse, it was admitting to myself that I deserved to be loved. That I am worthy and lovable.

That admission is the one that felt most like a nervous breakdown. A friend offered unconditionally to give me money to help during later stages of my custody battle when I was financially spent.

Accepting that gift is what cracked me open.

Leaving is taking a step toward the terrifying realization that you deserve to be loved.

It is not for the faint of heart.

[lpheal]

Deciding to leave is a bit about choosing to do an overhaul on yourself.

You won't be the same person afterwards.

I heard a short talk on the growth mindset a few weeks ago, and I've been trying to keep that in mind. Very recently I would have considered myself a failure for having a failed marriage. I'm trying to open my mind to accept that a failed marriage is not a failed life.

[worriedStepmom]

Why did you decide not to call the police when she was hitting you?  You said your L had some strategy for if the domestic violence resumed.  Are you waiting for her to escalate to a certain point?