Silent treatment might be a tool she is starting to use

[formflier]

So... .my guess is this is because other "tools" aren't working.

I'm seeing lots more "passive" resistance or opportunities for me to "persecute" her... .and then she would express shock and have a very detailed story of how she was only trying to help... blah blah blah.

She has opened up a couple email discussions, while refusing to have in person discussions.  Near as I can tell... I stayed opening to listening, discussing and whatever she brought up... .and inviting further understanding.

Today she  emailed me "lovingly bringing to my attention" that I was sinning and trying to manipulate her by offering a compromise.  Lots of flak went up and rabbit trails that I didn't go down... .I stuck to wanting to understand the Biblical basis of the sin she was bringing to my attention.  

She refused... basically saying I should just pray about what she said and then repent.

Earlier in the week she accused me of keeping a medical test one of the kids was having from her... very loud public thing.  I suspect she understands that's the next thing we talk about in private... .so just just wont talk about it.

FYI... she knew about the blood test, somehow conjured up that it was for a purpose other than what the doctor explained to me it was for... .and that I knew this other purpose... and that I was purposefully keeping her in the dark... .

Right...

Since Tuesday... .I'm pretty sure she has spoken less than 20 words total directly to me.  

Brave new world I suppose.  If anyone has "successfully" dealt with ST or LC ST I'm interested in your thoughts of how this can be nipped in the bud.  (I don't want to "feed the fire" or "give her what she wants")

I suspect she "wanted" me to explain how unreasonable she is... or accuse her or something.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I imagine that you're continuing to be your cheery FF self in spite of this ST and that she keeps ratcheting up the crazy, hoping for you to "break" and you're not doing that.    Perhaps it's a waiting game--seeing who has the most willpower. 

I'm a bit confused about the blood test details. Did she make a scene in public?

[formflier]

I'm a bit confused about the blood test details. Did she make a scene in public?

Me too.

She believes a blood test was done to check one of my kids for Leukemia.  A blood test was done... .and perhaps... .perhaps if you really let your mind run wild the results of that test might have led to further testing to determine Leukemia.

The odd thing is.  All these kids and we've never had a case of "hand foot and mouth" until now. 

There were a few spots that were not consistent with hand foot and mouth and out of an abundance of caution a CBC test was done... just to make sure nothing was being missed.  CBC was normal.

It is apparently "just" hand foot and mouth.  IN a 12 year old.  Which is a really odd age to get it. 

So yes... she stood at top of steps and hollered that I was keeping a leukemia test from her... .she was going to call doctor and blah blah blah... .she was going to blah blah blah me... .she has rights... she this... she that

I've invited her to go see the doctor with me... together... .

She went to ST mode since then.

Oh... .and, sadly a bunny died... .she flipped out over that too. 

Keep asking about what is confusing.  Yes... .I'm staying centered and keeping door open for further understanding... and ignoring the copious amounts of digs (digs are via email) that are out there.

So the ST  or LC ST is via mouth.  Several things she has ranted about via email... .

Sigh...

FF

[AskingWhy]

FF, make no mistake, silent treatment not only hurts on the emotional level, it hurts on the physiological level.

Silent treatment is the means of telling a person they are no one, a nobody and invisible.  It's small-scale ostracism.

I know it well. My uBPD/uNPD H does it when he is displeased with me.  It includes silence with the additional punishment of him sleeping on the couch--social withdrawal.

It hurts even when we understand the mechanism and that we don't deserve it.

https://www.heysigmund.com/the-silent-treatment/

[jsgirl360]

Ah, the silent treatment.  I've dealt with that from BPDh for weeks,  maybe more than a month at a time.  I see it as a way to clear himself of any blame from the situation that brought on the ST. Many BPD's, like my husband,  never learned the skills to constructively solve a problem.  So the ST is the simplest solution for them.  And that brings me to another important thing I've learned - the ST is about the pwBPD,  not the non.

BPDh used all different forms of the ST - just not speaking to me, locking himself in the bathroom for hours when I wanted to discuss something important,  or driving off and not returning for hours.

This behavior has now (mostly) stopped, and I believe it's because he doesn't receive the desired reaction from me. I no longer care, and I believe that shines through me. As I mentioned before, the ST is about the BPD, not the non. I enjoy the peace now when he takes off for hours. If he locks himself in a room, I'll read a book and relax. BPD's can sense when they're truly not getting to you. That's when the behavior will stop.

[Red5]

I enjoy the peace now when he takes off for hours. If he locks himself in a room, I'll read a book and relax. BPD's can sense when they're truly not getting to you. That's when the behavior will stop.

Yeah, ST used to drive me nuts! But not so much anymore, by LC ST you mean “gray rock” (low contact) correct FF?

I myself am on day eleven of “ST - LC/ST”... .

No worries though, I am doing my thing, me and my boy just left the flea mall, and the produce stand, going to boil up some peanuts and put some suds on ice in the cooler on the back porch for later.

When defcon ST is in effect, one must remember to “GOLE”... .

“go on living everyday” ; )

I’ve found that instead of trying to figure pw/BPD out and thus attempt to break the ST... .most times via a laminated apathetic apology for what ever slight I committed in the first place to cause this ST... .

Lately I just wait her out... .and ignore it.

I heard a while back on another source I use, the best way to “correct” the bad BPD behaviors is to go on about your buisiness ie’ GOLE”... .

When the Non appears un-phased by the BPD ST behavior... .and goes on with the “plan of the day” without pw/BPD; that this is the best option, .pw/BPD does not like to see the Non “happy” when the “Non” is supposed to be writhing in punishment... .

Got to go for now, me and the boy are going to our fav hardware store down here in Beaufort... .

Hang in there FF!

And carry out the plan of the day,  normal squadron routine... .Mrs. FF, she is going to do what’s she is gong to do.

It’ll blow over, it always does doesn’t it,

Red5

[formflier]

Yes... ."LC ST" is low contact silent treatment.  It would be nearly impossible for her to go completely NC, because often she needs to ask for something.

At the moment I'm a bit "amused", since usually my wife is "loud"  ST is rare.  I'm taking this as a bit of a victory that a "tool" she has been using isn't working for her and so she is trying something else.

Also... generally enjoying the relative peace and quiet.

My plan is to wait it out and ignore it.

FF

[jsgirl360]

Red5,

I have to comment... .I love the idea of "GOLE".

It's something I aspire to do, no matter how difficult BPDh makes it. 

[Red5]

Also... generally enjoying the relative peace and quiet.

My plan is to wait it out and ignore it.

Best option FF!

Won’t be long and there will be another cross - slight - issue that will take FF off her threat radar again for a while.

At my house, it was the evil street pavers and their flying monkey flag men yesterday ... .

I am just letting her be, and I am conducting normal weekend routine with my boy... .

Me and the boy just had a great late lunch of fried shrimp, Brunswick stew and banana pudding down here at the bbq joint in Beaufort north cacalacki ; )

Going to go back home now, and put some suds on ice, and put those peanuts in the crockpot with some jalapeños... .

GOLE !

Go do something fun with some of them youngin’s you got running around there !

Hang tough Man!

Red5

[Red5]

Red5,

I have to comment... .I love the idea of "GOLE".

It's something I aspire to do, no matter how difficult BPDh makes it. 

jsgirl360
I can’t take credit for that, my good friend and coworker and fellow former JarHead came up with it ; )
Red5

[pearlsw]

Hey all!

Not that you haven't seen this at some point I'm sure, but offering it as something to review and reflect on for anyone following this thread:

Silent Treatment

Silent treatment is a very serious sign of marital breakdown, unfortunately.

How long does she keep it up?

wishing you peace, pearl.

[formflier]

How long does she keep it up?

wishing you peace

No idea... this is relatively new thing.

Thanks for the article.  If I've read it... .it's been a long time

Generally, let the person have their silence - don't retaliate (lower yourself) and don't give in (reward bad behavior).

I pulled out this piece... .which is kinda where my head was.

FF

[Red5]

Generally, let the person have their silence - don't retaliate (lower yourself) and don't give in (reward bad behavior).

I pulled out this piece... .which is kinda where my head was.

FF

“Steady as She goes” FF,

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/b8b7ddfb-9b6c-4455-aced-d2a01521dafb

Red5

[Notwendy]

My mother used the ST a lot and so does ( did? cause I ignore it now) my H.

But this situation with your wife seems different. When my H does the ST- he went completely silent- no e mails, no attempts to discuss things. I felt clueless as to what the issue might be.

Your wife on the other hand has made attempts to communicate- maybe not how you would like it, but by e mails, a public discussion, an accusation of sinning, or keeping information from her.

She tried to communicate- and has now gone silent. To me, this seems more like giving up than ST.

You've been trying to hold down the fort by diminishing drama, but there is likely to be some drama with someone with BPD- and if each time she gets upset you squash it to keep control of the situation, she may just be giving up trying to express herself.

For my H, ( and my mother) the ST is a way to gain control- to keep me in the dark about what is going on. Is your wife keeping you in the dark or just angry and upset at her communication "failures". I know that you want appropriate and face to face communication from her, but e mails and public discussions are still communication, while ST is absence of it.

[formflier]

So... .something I wrestle with is the appropriateness of my "choosing" to only talk about the topic that she brought up and failed with.

Said another way... refusing to talk about anything else until we figure out if I really did sin by asking if we had compromised (likely not how she would describe it... .but I honestly don't know what she means)

versus

Moving along and letting a wacky idea be dropped... without any kind of resolution.

Which brings up the question, does anything ever really get resolved.  Perhaps further divide that into "in her mind" and "in FF mind".

I don't believe a "fly on the wall" watching all this would have said I was mean to my wife over the last few days, I'm sure she would have other ideas.

I also wasn't particularly nice... .I didn't go out of my way to do things for her.

If there is a thaw and I start "being nice" to her again "without any further talks or resolution" is that better or worse than "holding out" for an actual attempt at resolution (or even understanding)

FF

[Notwendy]

What was the "sin" she accused you of?

[formflier]

What was the "sin" she accused you of?

Attempting to compromise... .

She "knows" that it was not a legitimate attempt and my "real" purpose was manipulation... .therefor she confronted me and expected me to repent.

I tried to draw out of her the Biblical basis for this... and she refused to reveal it (I suspect she figured out there wasn't one)

FF

[formflier]

My guess is that she somehow realized she was trying to manipulate... and then projected it onto me.   Who knows... .


FFw

And we HAVE NOT compromised. You only asked for D12 so you could say yes she can stay and appear as if you compromised... .So easy to see. No one else would demand she miss shopping with her older sister she has hardly gotten to spend time with to find her wedding dress... to be clear WE HAVE NOT compromised.

FF

Any chance you have a few minutes to chat on phone?

FFw

As for what to do with this information... .You can know that manipulating a situation to make it appear as if you are compromising in order to get your way is not ok and will be lovingly brought to your attention in the hopes of bringing repentance and restoration.

ff

I appreciate the desire for repentance and restoration... .what specifically are you hoping I would show repentance from?

What specifically would restoration look like?

FFw

Manipulation.

FFw

Yes, honey, I asked for D12 to stay even though that would be a change in plans because I want it to appear I compromised here. I should not have done that. Please forgive me. It is my job as head of household to set the example of pleasing Hid in my actions and words.  (ff note... she meant to say "HIM" referring to God)

FF

Please share your thoughts on the Biblical basis for this sin and how the Bible informs you that I am committed this sin.

My goal is to be reflective and pray about the verses you bring to my attention as I consider this most serious matter.

ffW

I would instead advise you to pray... the Bible or no one or nothing else has advised me you have made this din... mstop trying to trap me with words please and consider as the person who knows you best that it would be wise for you to seriously consider my words and even pray about it rather than battle me.

FF

Help me understand bringing sin to my attention without a Biblical basis.

I am considering and trying to understand your words.  My hope was that understanding the Biblical basis for this, as you see it, read it, pray about it and understand it;... .might help me understand the sin you are bringing to my attention.

[Notwendy]

FF, I don't mean to pick at your religion, but I think this Bible talk is actually interfering with actual communication between you. I don't know the whole story, but shopping for a wedding dress is a big deal ( congrats by the way) . I don't know how many guys watch "Say yes to the dress" on TV but the bride comes in with an entourage of girlfriends, sisters, mother, mother in law, grandma- to model dresses and everyone oohs and ahhs at them. Surely your D wants her sisters there. If you are discussing compromise- IMHO, this is one time where big sister and mom get what they want if at all possible. It's not just a shopping trip- it is a huge moment.

Even if you had absolutely solid reasons for D 12 to not be there the whole time, or whatever, it is understandable that your wife is upset at not having this moment be what she wants. But instead of being direct- she uses her Bible language ( I think God is a third entity on the drama triangle here) to accuse you of sin. You, as head of your Biblical household are then indignant as this accusation and now are asking her to bring you evidence of this sin. The focus isn't on your wife and the feelings she is trying to express, and not on the main event which is your D is going to pick out her wedding dress. This would likely feel invalidating to your wife as her feelings about the situation are not addressed at all- and this is behind the accusation.

Imagine this:

FFw: And we HAVE NOT compromised. You only asked for D12 so you could say yes she can stay and appear as if you compromised... .So easy to see. No one else would demand she miss shopping with her older sister she has hardly gotten to spend time with to find her wedding dress... to be clear WE HAVE NOT compromised.

FF: I understand you and D are feeling disappointed about the wedding dress.


I understand that you wish to have a household based on the Bible, and the Bible takes a center role-but - is bringing the Bible into every disagreement helping the the two of you truly relate to each other honestly and dealing with the issues in a direct way?

[Cat Familiar]

FF, I wanted to add to what Notwendy addressed so well.

The guy I see here on the boards is so easily approachable and has a great rapport with others. What I see in the communication with your wife is this layer of formality and distance--on both sides.

I would imagine that when you met, there was this easygoing exchange both ways and it's sad that it seems nonexistent in the he said/she said exchanges you quote--not just this one, but others.

Thoughts?

[formflier]

So... .is the solution to drop any form of religious talk... whatsoever?

If I stopped responding to her bringing stuff up like this... that would pretty much be the end of talk about religion.


And... .the more I've thought about it...

"I'm ready to talk more when you are ready to share how the Bible informed your view on this... "  and then stop responding.
 
Or... .no longer respond at all unless she leads off with how she views this. 

Otherwise... .she casts herself in the role of God... .

I'll say it this way... there is a very specific reason (the way our religion prescribes this be dealt with) I responded the way I did and ignored the other stuff I did. 

If two people are having a disagreement, understanding how the view the situation "through a Biblical" lens helps you understand... then the other party understanding how you view it through a Biblical lens helps them understand you... .then... .you find common ground.

So... .she knows this.  And obviously wants no part of it.

I'm most likely somehow "feeding this"

Note:  If I said anything about my wife's feelings... .regardless of whether or not I got it right, she goes off on a tirade about "I can't tell her her feelings"

I pretty much dropped that and went to the "more formal" talk, because even asking a question "how do you feel about this" would result in non-sensical answers "There you go again... telling me"  (and I know enough not to shift the debate to differences in questions versus telling.)

So... yes... .there is a "cold detached formality" to it all. 

I invite private discussion... from time to time I will invite discussion of feelings... .it is rare (but not unprecedented) for her to take me up on it.

Umm... .the wedding dress thing... .they have shopped... .and shopped... .and shopped... .and shopped and all of the women have done their thing together, with my support.

The point of bringing that up was this trip was, in my opinion, not planned... .it had been "mentioned" and one of the things I asked to discuss further... to clarify things (she stayed silent). 

There were some grumps about things not being done... .by and large those things were not done because people made a choice to be elsewhere and not do them and so the point of me bringing up desires and try to compromise and work things out... .was to determine priorities... .I had mine (more people stay home)... .my wife had hers (people don't stay home... .again... .and again)... .yet somehow magically there is no impact on that.

And... that's manipulative... somehow.

Circling back around... .I may try to feelings thing again just to keep it fresh... .my guess is will be gas on a fire.


FF

[formflier]

I thought it was going to be a calmer morning.  Laundry police just showed up.

Bras are NEVER supposed to be put in the drier... NEVER.

Everyone knows that.

Umm... .forging new ground on bpdfamily.  Do you guys dry your bras?

FF

[Notwendy]

There's a time and place for everything. (Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 ). IMHO, one can express the Bible by example and it isn't necessary to talk about it in all situations. I'm not the decider in your family but I think your wife uses Bible talk to justify her feelings and so she approaches you with that, rather than discuss her feelings up front. Since your role as Biblical head of family is so important to you, this basically acts as a trigger- gets you into factual Bible mode " prove to me this is in the Bible. Rather than the two of you communicating directly- the Bible is used to justify each of you being right and it becomes a wedge between you. IMHO, I don't think this is appropriate use of the Bible, but I also concede that we may see this differently.

Imagine this though- that if your role as Biblical head of the family included use of the Bible in reverent situations and not in arguments or to settle disagreements, you may find your wife uses this less.

You don't have to tell her her feelings. Just listen to her. FF: I think you are being mean by not letting D 12 go wedding dress shopping. No one else would demand she miss shopping with her older sister she has hardly gotten to spend time with to find her wedding dress.

FF - I hear you, let me think about this.

Now, I have an assignment for you. Watch "Say Yes To The Dress" a few times on TV. There is a reason many women love that show-- so much we even like watching complete strangers try on wedding dresses. It's a big deal FF and I can imagine a huge disappointment if your D can't have her sister with her.

[Notwendy]

I don't dry my bras, but I do dry my boxer shorts. 

[Cat Familiar]

I don't know any guys who own bras, but mine never see the inside of a dryer. Also they're all washed on the gentle cycle in mesh bags.

[formflier]

So... .here is my conundrum.

I do the laundry and bras and delicate things I do on delicate cycle with other delicate things... and nothing that is particularly dirty or stained.

I also now dry those things on delicate (lowest heat) or sometimes the "air fluff" (no heat).

This habit changed a while back when... .wait for it... .you guys can predict this... .my wife complained about things being out air drying... and "nobody does this"...

Now... granted... we had never really talked about "proper bra care"... .I just figured the "nicer" things would be better off to air dry. 

There is nothing of mine that I air dry.

So... .I assumed when she wanted stuff to stop air drying... .

I've been doing it this way for a long time... year or two. 

So... .do I dare ask?  Do I stop washing her stuff? 

To me... .this is perfect example of the kind of BPD thing I back out of... .it just happens to be about bras.

Air dry bras (she is unhappy)... .clothes dry bras (she is unhappy)... .FF doesn't do bras anymore (she is unhappy), yet the last one I have more free time for myself.

Do I let her chose from the 3 choices or do I just pick one and go for it?

FF

[formflier]

Today seems to be the day of outrageous claims.

"Dented cans... bought on sale at the supermarket are ALWAYS unsafe... bacteria forms in the dents... "

Who encouraged (insisted) me to buy these a few years ago as a money saving measure... .?

It came out of nowhere and out of my mouth came... "what... how?" (before realizing it likely wasn't about the cans)  She stomped around a bit saying she had no idea... google it.

Which... I won't.  My understanding is it matters if a seam has been compromised or not.  It's not really a yes or no thing, but a more nuanced complicated thing... .not something for a black and white thinker.


FF

[formflier]

My guess is the LC ST or the ST is over. 

Loud is back... .

Is it wrong to yearn for ST to return.

FF

[Red5]

Now, I have an assignment for you. Watch "Say Yes To The Dress" a few times on TV. There is a reason many women love that show-- so much we even like watching complete strangers try on wedding dresses. It's a big deal FF and I can imagine a huge disappointment if your D can't have her sister with her.

My W watches this show CONSTANTLY... .followed by the “Dr.Phil” show... .

Laundry... .get Mrs.FF her own laundry basket and tell her (nicely) to do her own laundry !

See, I told you it would “pass”, and the issue would soon be replaced / superimposed over by a brand new issue !

I have a Great War story about wedding dress shopping... .maybe later.

At Church this morning, it was just me and the boy again... .the offertory scripture was out of James, pretty much said “be quick to listen and slow to speak”... .if Incould actually do that... .I would be a lot better off... .

ST (LC) day twelve... .this morning I saw “seering looks”... .this is like a man overboard drill from h3ll  !

Hang in there FF !

“Secure from laundry detail”!

Red5  

[Red5]

Which... I won't.  My understanding is it matters if a seam has been compromised or not.  It's not really a yes or no thing, but a more nuanced complicated thing... .not something for a black and white thinker.

Dented cans of beans?

Ever read about the “Franklin Expedition”

I binge watched the series “Terror”... .like the “Tuunbaq”, .you never know when the BPD’ism is going to show up next... .and rip some poor crewman asunder !

Navigating through BPD is at about as fun as trying to find the “northwest passage” aboard HMS Terror or HMS Erebus in the dead of winter... .often we find ourselves locked in the ice pack for the winter, eating beans out of lead lines cans  !

I had fried shrimp for lunch again today... . now me and the boy are looking at used boats... .

You know what they say... .the two happiest daze for a boat owner is the day he buys his boat, and the day he sells it! ... .I could go on and on an entire thread about “boating with BPD” ha ha ha ! I KID YOU NOT !

Whoa-be-tide the poor hapless Non boat skipper caught out on the water when Tuunbaq unmasks ... .ROARRRR !

Keep those dented cans of beans FF, they will be just fine when the SHTF... .take it from a “prepper” that’s gospel Brother !

Steady as she goes!

Red5