Day-to-Day vs. Major Decisions in Co-Parenting

[mama-wolf]

Well... .the blow-up that I have been expecting finally did, but on a different subject than what I anticipated.

Rather than attack over the fact that my mother is moving in with me later this month, my stbx chose to get furious over the fact that I am taking the kids out of school a little less than two hours early this Friday in order to take them to the beach for the weekend.

She called me on the phone, already clearly angry and almost yelling, confronting me over the news that they're leaving school early.  I take it D9 told her moments earlier upon being picked up from school, and my stbx just couldn't keep herself from calling me in anger.  It concerns me that she had this conversation with them in the car... .

She was mad that I hadn't consulted her.  She proceeded to yell at me and claim that this is a legal decision (their education) that she has 50/50 say in, and that she does not agree so I am not to take them out of school early.  She demanded to know whether I would want her to consult with me if she wanted to change the kids' pediatrician (not a comparable situation in my mind), and I said of course I would.  I did not get into the fact that this is not a decision on that scale, just that this is my decision to make during my custodial time.

I told her that I understand she is angry, and I stayed calm the entire conversation.  I reiterated that it is my custodial time, and I will make arrangements with the teachers regarding any assignments.  She kept yelling that I am not communicating with her the way I am supposed to, and seemed to think once we have a Parent Coordinator appointed later this month that she will be in a stronger position to argue these things with me.  She said that in the absence of a PC, I'm not to take them out of school, but I just said I would consult with my attorney to better understand the legal requirements (no way am I just going to take her word!)... .

I did start to tell her that I'm not trying to exclude her from parenting decisions (referring to the major ones), at which point she cut me off and yelled "The f*ck you're not!"... .and I promptly hung up the phone.  I immediately emailed my L and gave her a synopsis, at which point she confirmed this is a minor day-to-day decision, and I should not set a precedent by letting her have a say.  So, we will proceed with the original plan.

I guess what I'm trying to decide now is whether to wait for her inevitable rant and then respond, or to proactively send her a brief reply that confirms I will not be consulting with her on the day-to-day decisions like this.  Along with stating a specific boundary that if she chooses to yell and curse at me over the phone again in the future, I will hang up.

mw

[david]

Your attorney said you are in your legal rights. You already notified her. Trying to smooth things over or explain will not, at least in my situation, improve matters in any way. In my situation the only thing something like this would do is create more anger. It used to be said on this site, "negative engagement is still engagement." It took me a while to get the deeper levels of understanding that saying. I had to make my mistakes and learn from them.

In a certain sense you actually diffused the situation you feared by creating another situation. It could also be that she understands there is nothing she can do to prevent your mom from moving in so she had to find something else. It could have also triggered her because she was not included in your decision. There could be a multitude of other reasons for why she blew-up. The point is you did nothing wrong and stbx has to learn to deal with that.
 
My ex is a nurse so, in her mind, I am completely incompetent to make any decisions regarding our kids health. That was 2007. Today not every medical decision I make has her protesting. I take the boys to the dentist, to the doc for check ups, etc and she doesn't say a thing anymore. In the beginning any one of those circumstances would have lit fireworks.
 
Our oldest, son is 19, had kidney stones a month ago. He was in severe distress. I drove him to the hospital, got him out of pain, and had a referral to see a urologist. S19, laying on the bed in the hospital, in severe pain, picked his head up and told me not to call his mom. He did not want the drama that would have ensued. I agreed with him. I informed ex after we came home through email. My email stated facts and basically said there was only one thing on my mind which was our son was in pain. Ex insisted she take him for the follow up. S19 was fine with that. The urologist wanted to do a CAT scan. Ex was taking care of that too.  It has been a month and she has done nothing about it so I will take care of it.

I used to second guess my decisions in the beginning. Eventually I realized I wasn't the horrible parent she convinced me I was when we were married. It wasn't a thought in my head that I was incompetent but my actions and second guessing made me not as effective as I could have been. It's that fog I was in.
 

[ForeverDad]

My ex always ranted, raged and then would hang up on me.  It was her regular pattern.  I recall the first time I hung up on her before she could hang up on me.  She called me back immediately and raged that I should never ever hang up on her again, I didn't have that right.

[babyducks]

I guess what I'm trying to decide now is whether to wait for her inevitable rant and then respond, or to proactively send her a brief reply that confirms I will not be consulting with her on the day-to-day decisions like this.  Along with stating a specific boundary that if she chooses to yell and curse at me over the phone again in the future, I will hang up.

I would suggest you leave it alone.    as I see it, the only place a response is really required or warranted is around the fact that heated discussions about parental decisions should not occur in front of, or with the kids.   and yeah a boundary around ending contact when the communication becomes harsh.

pwBPD attempt to control everything in their environment,  including you, to help them feel more emotionally safe.    I would not recommend engaging on that level.    don't try to fix that.     it won't work.    don't try to explain that.

go have a nice weekend at the beach and build big sand castles.

[mama-wolf]

An unexpectedly calm follow-up message from my stbx this morning... .

"First, I want to apologize (as I did last night to the kids) for calling you in front of them and yelling.

No need to call your lawyer today. I am okay with you getting them a bit early (even if I disagree with it). I was angry that you chose not to talk to me ahead of time, much less just inform me. My feelings were hurt.

My feelings aside, a lack of communication between us as parents left the kids, particularly D9, in an awkward place. She said, "I thought you knew. Oh no, I wasn't supposed to tell you" etc. I had to talk her down that she was not in trouble with you or me. S5 was upset when she got upset. Please don't put D9 in that position.

That's probably what pushed me into anger and to pick up the phone instead of waiting a few hours to think about it and writing a response in this app.

Two requests from the kids:

D9 has really asked several times if she can stay until 3pm. I told her I couldn't promise that but that I would reiterate her request to you.

S5 wants me to remind you that there is "one more sleep" until the Letterland Parade. He is very excited."

This presents an important issue that I hadn't fully thought out or addressed yet.  I want to assure the kids that I do not expect them to keep secrets.  I definitely don't want them thinking that!  How my stbx feels and reacts to my decisions is not on them--it's on her.

I will need to think on how to present this to my stbx.  I plan to keep it to the above message (I will assure the kids they don't need to feel like they're keeping secrets).  It just really feels necessary to spell out to her that I will not consult with her on day-to-day parenting decisions.  As discussed in other threads, I know that even simply informing her of plans/decisions, it opens the door for her to think she gets to affect the decision.

In spite of advice received from various sources here to keep it to a bare minimum, I do think there's room to improve the communication.  I'm struggling with how, and that's probably because I now her BPD traits skew what I should be able to reasonably expect.  She can't/wont't see that skewing affect, so she unreasonably expects it to be the way she wants.  Ugh!

mw

[kells76]

Hi there MW;

Ah yes, the unrelated blowup... .you expect it from one angle, and it hits from another. We've had some of those, too 

In a certain sense you actually diffused the situation you feared by creating another situation

Or, conversely, stbx had some realization that she couldn't do anything about your mom moving in, but still felt all of those out-of-control feelings, and found a target in another decision you made.

what I'm trying to decide now is whether to wait for her inevitable rant and then respond, or to proactively send her a brief reply

Trying to smooth things over or explain will not, at least in my situation, improve matters

David has some good insight. My sense is that "a brief reply" would be JADE-ing.

Babyducks suggested

a boundary around ending contact when the communication becomes harsh.

I think I wrote something about this to takingandsending, or maybe Anuday, but you can ponder whether you even need to "announce" your boundary to her. You know her better than I do, so maybe just "doing" the boundary would communicate it better than "telling her about it" beforehand. Or, she calls and curses, you say "I hang up when people curse at me on the phone", and do it. Or maybe you don't even say that, but just hang up. Just putting out there that "doing" the boundary can work better for some people than "giving a heads-up" about a boundary.

An unexpectedly calm follow-up message from my stbx this morning... .

Unicorn with a winning lottery ticket 

As I've read some of your threads, it seems like a pattern with your ex is that she makes some reasonable requests, but they're couched within inappropriate blowups and self-centered language. I wonder if your task over the next few months/years may be to build skills for sifting through the chaff of "me, me, me, my anger" and getting to the kid-centered stuff. Like you mentioned, you trust her to be genuinely concerned for the kids' safety and well-being, which is good.

I do think there's room to improve the communication.  I'm struggling with how

We'll be here for you as best we can, if you'd like to run some ideas past us

I wonder what you can find in the message to agree with. Maybe some stuff in there that validates her as an equal parent, and stuff where it is 100% kid-focused from both of you.

"Thanks for the apology; I really appreciate it.

"You're right that we shouldn't put the kids in a position of feeling like they're keeping secrets. [ponder if you want to put in an "I'm sorry"?] What I'll do next time is _________ [give you a heads up about the schedule for Friday, etc]

"Thanks for filling me in on what the kids are wanting. I'll let you know by Day/Time about whether staying until 3pm is workable."

[maybe some 100% kid-focused positive stuff here] "That's so cute how excited S5 is! I bet he loved telling you about looking forward to the parade."

IDK, some phrases like that are where I usually turn when texting/talking w/ the kids' mom. Stuff where it is true for me, non-confrontational, and acknowledges her effort. Stuff that focuses on how great the kids are is usually good neutral-to-positive ground. Maybe improving communication with her can start in that "safe" area of "D9 did so well on her spelling test, S5 really focused in ballet today, they are so excited for the festival", etc. Topics where you are fairly sure you guys will agree could be good "practice" for seeing what communication skills & themes go well.

Cheers!

kells76

[mama-wolf]

We'll be here for you as best we can, if you'd like to run some ideas past us

Hi kells76, and thanks so much for jumping in! 

I appreciate all of your suggestions.  Especially given that my L replied to me this morning advising that I send my stbx a message on the parenting portal and state that due to her abusive language and style, all communication shall occur via that portal.  And that I specifically state that day to day decisions are in my domain, and then to not respond again or continue on this topic.

I'm really hesitant to follow through with that at the moment, but I do feel the need to respond somehow to the note from her this morning.  At the very least, I will incorporate elements of the above messaging, but maybe not quite the way my L would put it.  Still mulling it all over, and I'll probably toss a draft up here later today... .

mw

[kells76]

Picking through your L's recommendations... .

and then to not respond again or continue on this topic.

This seems doable from both legal and "working on communication" standpoints. It might look like "decide and inform" versus "ask and dialogue": (written on parenting portal): "FYI, I'll be picking the kids up from school at 12:30pm on Friday. Thanks; MW"

If she has another blowup about it... .don't respond. Responding to a blowup right away would be negative engagement. Sticking to a boundary about blowups/anger/cursing might mean not engaging with it. She did seem to go back to baseline fairly soon according to her last "nice" message, so giving her time to regulate might be a win-win -- you stick to a boundary of not responding to anger/abuse about your day-to-day-decisions, and she has an opportunity to apologize of her own accord. Food for thought... .

More later... .

kells76

[mama-wolf]

At the moment, I'm most inclined to reply to the very time-bound subject bout the uncomfortable position D9 found herself in yesterday, and the request to leave a little later in the afternoon tomorrow:

Thank you for clarifying the situation from yesterday.  I will make sure both kids know day-to-day parenting decisions when they are with me are my domain, and that I will share the details with you that I feel it necessary to share.  Those decisions are not a secret, so the kids should not feel any restriction in discussing them.  I will reassure D9 that she is not in any trouble with me.

With regards to departure time on Friday, D9 and I have already discussed her request to delay several times and I will be sticking to the (approximately) 2pm pick-up time.

I am thinking I will postpone any further discussion with my stbx about her "abusive language and style" until have a session with my T on Monday.  My T has also served as a sounding board for co-parenting struggles over the past few sessions, and I want to get her perspective.

Rolled up with this particular subject is the notice my stbx sent me earlier yesterday about not allowing D9 to contact me immediately after she has been disciplined in an attempt to seek comfort from me.  On the surface, I consider this fairly reasonable... .but taken in the context of the anger she has exhibited toward the kids and the fact that I know she has gotten in their face to mock their behavior (especially D9), it is concerning to me that the kids would be restricted from contacting me.  The custody order also specifies that neither of us will interfere with contact from the kids to the other parent.  Here's the content of her note, which I will also be discussing with my T on Monday:

"I realize we are in a holding pattern until we get the P.C. appointed to provide overarching FaceTime/Text/Phone Calls between the kids and the non-custodial parent.

My very specific notice to you is that if and when I discipline D9 and she immediately asks to FaceTime and/or text you to commiserate about such consequences or to soothe her anger or sadness, I will not allow her to contact you at that time. It is very disruptive for the transition (particularly on a 2-day stay instead of a 5-day stay), it does not allow D9 the ability to sit in her room and reflect on her actions and, most importantly, it furthers D9's (false) belief that you are the only parent to whom she can turn for comfort or soothing.

I feel that I am not afforded an opportunity to be there for her in that role of parent as comforter, ultimately preventing D9 and I from reaching a place of emotional intimacy and trust. As it stands now, for example, the last time D9 initiated affection towards me was when she hugged me the night before going to the camp trip back in April.

We are no longer "disengaged" but the separation continues that theme when my ability to parent as I see appropriate while the kids are in my care is undermined/frustrated by D9 contacting you just after being disciplined or instructed by me.

I will not prohibit or block her requests to contact you when it clearly does not have a causal or temporal connection to a particular interaction with me while in my care."

My request for help from my T is going to be centered around how to draw a line related to the nature of my stbx's "discipline".  She has such a disconnect between understanding that her fits of anger and emotional volatility are what keep her from "reaching a place of emotional intimacy and trust" with D9.  And I'm sure it has to do with S5's higher level of physical aggressiveness and defiance at her house.

mw

[livednlearned]

People with BPD tend to be very good at pulling us down to an inch off the ground.

We are good at seeing the 30,000 foot view. That's where the perspective is. She is going to keep you an inch off the ground because that's the best she can do.

You will have many more of these. The problem is not that she feels hurt, or upset, or disagrees. The problem is that she cannot regulate her emotions.

30,000 foot view is about how she communicates and behaves when she is dysregulating (that's actually true about everyone, not just her), not about what the lawyers say or don't say, or whether the kids are keeping secrets, or whether it's a crime against humanity to take the kids out of school 2 hours early on your custodial time without telling her.

"I will not have conversations about custody issues in front of the kids. Additionally, being yelled at, or being cursed at, makes it hard for me to focus and think clearly. I will end the call if there is yelling or cursing, or if adult topics are being discussed in front of the kids. Ending the conversation does not mean I will not talk about the topic. It means I will wait until emotions are cooled of off and we can discuss our differences in a calm manner."

You can let the kids know. "My feelings are hurt when people yell or curse at me. I have made a decision for myself that I will not allow people to do that to me anymore. You may be with me when someone yells at me, or curses at me. If that happens, I don't want you to be alarmed if I end the conversation abruptly. I may even have to hang up. It isn't good for me, or for you, to hear those words said in that way. Does anyone have any questions?"

You don't have to say anything about it being your ex. They know who you're talking about.

Also, there is an excellent section in Richard Warshak's book Divorce Poison about the moral issues our kids deal with when it comes to keeping secrets. It's about using media and stories and examples to teach our kids the difference between secrecy, lies, forgetting, and privacy.

Kids with BPD parents deserve to have privacy. They more than regular kids need to know that it is sometimes safe to keep things private. Plus, the BPD parent may accuse you of being secretive, a moral slippery slope that can be confusing for kids.

I used to give my son examples. "Say your friends come over and want to know if we have popsicles. I forget they are there and say we don't have any. Is that lying, secrecy, forgetting, or privacy?"

We had to do a lot of that, and he loved it (age 10, 11, 12). I didn't do it all the time, just enough to help him realize how morally complex these things can be, so he could figure things out in his mind for himself. Oftentimes he realized, because we talked about how sometimes things can be privacy, security, lies depending on small subtleties and nuances. The truth is these things are often complex. Better to think out loud with them so they hear how complex it can be.

Kids are often amazing at seeing how the truth is not black or white.

Sometimes you can use tv shows or movies to ask the kids what they think.

Give them the skills to sort this stuff out for themselves. That's how you get them out of the middle.

[takingandsending]

You will have many more of these. The problem is not that she feels hurt, or upset, or disagrees. The problem is that she cannot regulate her emotions.

Amen. Your D9, mama-wolf, was not getting it from you that she had to keep a secret - she was reacting to stbx's dysregulation as if she caused it. My xw creates this same sense of discomfort and unease in our sons, so that they feel compelled to hide stuff from her to keep the peace. Similarly, my xw casts herself in the role that only she can really talk to the kids to know their true heart's desire, which she then relays to me, a la

Two requests from the kids:

D9 has really asked several times if she can stay until 3pm. I told her I couldn't promise that but that I would reiterate her request to you.

S5 wants me to remind you that there is "one more sleep" until the Letterland Parade. He is very excited."

Let me ask you: how many of the kids' desires or interests that you relay gain traction with your stbx? With my xw, the answer is darned near zero. I still try for my kids' sake, but I am slowly letting go and letting them fend for themselves with their mom as they have to learn how they will do that one way or the other.

The work you have is to keep validating your children's experiences and reinforce (over and over) that you do not judge them, that their feelings and wants are safe with you, that you will be consistent and fair. I frequently get what my kids said from xw while they are with her as imperative demands. With gently inquiry, I often find their "imperatives" are misinterpreted ... .sometimes just musings. A good parent wouldn't try to drive these little wedges into their children's hearts. A hopelessly selfish parent does. For me, I have had 2 years to witness and accept that my xw is hopelessly selfish. Her needs will always win out over the kids' needs, as she is actually incapable of doing anything else.

Your muddle over what seems reasonable and what is not is unfortunately still the FOG residue that clings to us long after the RS is over. I don't know if I am going down the best path, but I find my responses getting much shorter, I try to catch myself before I explain or justify anything to her, and I ignore most of what she says to me about parenting. I still get hooked, but I am working on myself to catch why I got hooked v. responding to her.

I am realizing that I have only so much energy in this lifetime, and I have to be smart about where I want it to go. I am sure you are coming to the same realization. Hang in there, and don't be afraid to assert your right to be the parent that you are with justifying or defending it.

[mama-wolf]

I think I have said these exact words before but... .I really don't know what I would do without this community.

She is going to keep you an inch off the ground because that's the best she can do.

LnL, that's a great way to put it, and a very good point to keep in mind.  The lessons and exercises you described around privacy, secrecy, etc. are excellent.  It will probably take me a lot of practice, but I will definitely look into incorporating some of them... .

Let me ask you: how many of the kids' desires or interests that you relay gain traction with your stbx?

In all honesty takingandsending, we haven't had many occasions yet in our separation to relay this sort of thing.  I actually recognize the bit about D9's request to be something that my stbx agrees with, so that's probably the only reason she sent it, and she just included the additional note from S5 to make sure it looked "balanced."  As for me, I'll present the facts/relay requests for the kids' sake (ex. D9 asked for x), but I won't really hold onto many hopes regarding a response.

Your muddle over what seems reasonable and what is not is unfortunately still the FOG residue that clings to us long after the RS is over.

Yes... .that damn FOG is just really hard to shake!

I am realizing that I have only so much energy in this lifetime, and I have to be smart about where I want it to go. I am sure you are coming to the same realization.

I think I had reached that realization on a subconscious level when I finally decided I had to separate from my uBPDw.  It's only now percolating to the surface... .

So, I have settled on the following response, good or bad... .  I will hope that I am not dealing with too much additional dysregulation while enjoying the beach with my kids over the weekend, and will circle back on the subject with my T on Monday... .

Thank you for clarifying the situation from yesterday.  I will reassure D9 that she is not in any trouble with me.

Day-to-day parenting decisions when they are with me are in my domain.  I will explain to the kids that those decisions are not a secret even if I haven't provided all of the details to you, and that they are not responsible for your reaction if they share something that you had not yet heard from me.

I do hope that in the future I can feel comfortable sharing details more freely with you, but that is just not the case right now, nor is it required.

With regards to departure time on Friday, D9 and I have already discussed her request to delay several times and I will be sticking to the (approximately) 2pm pick-up time.

Please do let S5 know that I am really looking forward to the Letterland Parade.

It may have been a mistake to add in the bit about hoping that I can share details in the future.  I guess I'll see over the weekend.  I wanted to acknowledge that there could one day be a situation where we are in that space.  It will take a lot of change from her to get there, but I'm willing if she makes those changes (just don't want to get into that with her).

mw

[mama-wolf]

Aaaand, here she is... .responding much more quickly than I expected. 

"I need to understand why basic communications with me are "not possible right now." The tone set now will set the tone for years to come.

I find it selfish to disregard how sh*tty you make D9 feel at 9 years old, to ask her to bear the weight of your inability to communicate basic, reasonable information to me. Is that what (your mom) taught you about communications with (your dad) or (your step-dad)? You are not a single parent with sole/primary custody.

F*ck D9's feelings, I mean as long as mama-wolf doesn't have to feel uncomfortable, might as well leave it to D9 to be the go between.

See you at the hearing on the 18th. Can't wait for the PC to read this thread between us."

What I find equally interesting is the fact that she let D9 FaceTime me seven minutes after she sent this reply so that D9 could ask me what my decision was about departure time tomorrow.  Well after her bedtime.  All the while trying to "neutrally" comment from the background that D9 is just asking to split the difference and leave at 2:30pm instead of 2pm.

My response was that we have been over this multiple times and I'm not negotiating on that point anymore.

It is so, SO, SO tempting to reply with things like "your definition of reasonable is based on your perception," and "can't wait for the PC to read the abusive language you have recently used towards me in other messages," and "can't wait to hear what the PC thinks about you allowing D9 to FaceTime well after her bedtime to ask me a question you already knew the answer to."

I'm so exhausted.  I'll learn eventually.

mw

[takingandsending]

☹️  I wish her response was surprising. David once had a great post like, “Mama-wolf, [blame, blame, project, victim, guilt, blame, guilt, self pity] pick up D9 on Tuesday. And that’s about how you have to start filtering communication.

Don’t wear yourself down before your trip. It’s not fair to you and not fair to your kids. Stbx is projecting ... .all that crappy stuff is her feelings about herself. Less engagement is better for all of you. I know how hard it is to do it. I just got hoodwinked by my xw today, but I am determined to make my boundaries better. No other choice.

[formflier]

   

I suspect this event is a  accurate window into the next year.  The sooner you get a consistent response that YOU feel comfortable with (any doubt your ex will ever feel comfortable with it?)... the better.

I love the plan of "holding your fire" until you talk with T.  That's a wonderful way of "winding the clock" and seeing how your perspective changes.  While I don't disagree with anyone's suggestions on what to say, I bet YOU will feel much more confident in whatever you choose to communicate.

More confidence leads to more consistency which (we all hope) will lead to less of the type of absolute nonsense.  

I'm not exactly sure what you will be asking your T about.  I would suggest you practice (roleplay) these types of phone conversations.

My suggestion is something along the lines of "Hello... ." pause (ex says blah blah blah)   you say "This sounds like a subject for (name of parent portal), is there an emergency?"  

I think it very important you ask a yes or no question at the end.

"I'll take phone calls about emergencies, the rest I will discuss on (parent portal)"  click

I'm torn between adding validation or sticking to facts, my guess is your T can better guide you on that.  I tend to say no, because your desire (from a certain point of view) is that you don't want your ex to get any "relief" or "calming" from the phone call.

FF

[Panda39]

Mama-wolf,

I know it's a process and you're finding your new normal and redefining your relationship, but I think you are over-communicating.  The more you communicate the more stuff there is for your ex to grab onto and engage you in, all of this "communication" is just feeding more drama.  Communicate only what is necessary.

I do hope that in the future I can feel comfortable sharing details more freely with you, but that is just not the case right now, nor is it required.

Yep, your gut reaction was right, would not have sent that... .it may be how you feel but it is also telling her you don't trust her... .she feels criticized which leads to shame, which leads to I have to make mama-wolf feel worse than I do, so she sends an irate email about what a horrible person/parent you are.

Do not put anything in your messages that are about how you feel about her, just stick to the kids, and there too edit yourself.

Remember BIFF (Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm)

I would not respond to her last email, just let it lay there, do not pick it up... .do not JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain)

Panda39

[babyducks]

My experience with my partner was the conversation was always the same and it never ended.     Sometimes some of the details flickered around a bit but the essence of the conversation was always the same.    At bedrock it was 'babyducks you don't meet my needs. '      okay.    I don't meet her needs.    Explainin why didn't matter.    Didn't help.  Didn't change anything.

It's a good thing that you recognized "feeling comfortable sharing"  was going to be a trigger point.    Thats a good insight to have.     Eventually the insights will feel natural,   just a normal part of the new pattern. 

Panda said good things and I agree.  All this communication is fuel keeping the drama going.   It may be possible to communicate better in the future but right now Less is more.

[worriedStepmom]

It's important to remember that you are relatively early in this coparenting process.  Details that you might wish to share now are items you won't even think about sharing in a few years.  Not because of her behavior, but because you are retraining yourself that she is not your full partner in life and in parenting.  It's a transition, as you recenter yourself, and it is a transition that your ex may never be able to make.

My non-BPDex thinks I overcommunicate, so he ignores about 70% of what I send to him.  I text him any information that I would want to know.  It's a lot less now than when we first divorced 7 years ago.

My H's uBPDex, like your ex, wants to know EVERYTHING.  He does not respond to any of her questions unless it is absolutely necessary that she be informed (e.g., school).  We found that not responding was better overall than ANY type of response, as she can twist ANY response into chaos.  She does ask for a lot less now than she did 6 years ago, because H has been so consistent.  However, she switched targets to SD11, constantly asking questions and texting/calling when SD is here.  We had and continue to have lots of conversations with SD about it not being her responsibility to be constantly available to mom/be an intermediary for adult things.  Last month, SD cried because "Mom said Daddy won't answer so I have to ask."  We told her "Daddy will always answer mom about really important topics, but Daddy is not able to stop all of mom's worries.  Let Mom and Daddy figure it out - these are grown-up things, NOT kid things."  You will be having lots and lots of those kind of talks with your kids too.

Stick to your boundaries.  Day-to-day parenting decisions are not her business.  You will communicate any major items impacting the children.  Parenting discussions WILL NOT take place in front of the children. 

Your children will definitely notice that you are the one who steps out of the room to talk to their other mom, and that you are the one who consistently tries to protect them.

[ForeverDad]

My experience with my partner was the conversation was always the same and it never ended.  Sometimes some of the details flickered around a bit but the essence of the conversation was always the same... .  Explaining why didn't matter.  Didn't help.  Didn't change anything.  (That's JADE)

Panda said good things and I agree.  All this communication is fuel keeping the drama going.   It may be possible to communicate better in the future but right now Less is more.

Another way to filter a reply is to ask yourself... .  What is NEW that needs to be added?  If your position or boundary has already been clearly stated, then let it stand.  At some point the PC may step in with slightly different policies, as in "let's play nice, kids, and see if that works", but that's still in the future.  (Of course if there are new serious allegations there may have to be a corrective response but otherwise silence is golden.

[mama-wolf]

Thank you all for the feedback and advice.  It really is a learning process, and taking it all in as much as I can.

In reflecting on my addition of the comment about wanting to share more but not being comfortable right now... .I think it was mostly an experiment for me.  I figured it was not best to include it, but I felt the need to test the waters a little--in spite of how much I had already been dealing with from her lately.  I'm sure I was also struggling with residual FOG and had a bit of a weak moment.

At least I recognized it as a mistake, even if I didn't manage to overcome the desire to include it.  The results have reaffirmed for me the minimalist approach and reinforced many of the messages you all have posted in response.

I am under the impression the PC will support my rights from a day-to-day decision-making and leave-me-the-hell-alone perspective.  My stbx is under the impression that the PC will force me to engage with her more and share more information.  One of us has a rude awakening coming when the he is in place... .I just hope it's not me.

Time to get out of town with the kids and enjoy a weekend at the beach!

mw

[formflier]

I don't have direct experience with a PC, but the following comes from "human nature".

I think that you should "offer" with the PCs guidance to "share more" from the start or very early in the process.  I would include a gentle concern about "tone" or something like that.

Basically... that your desire is to share more, yet there is this elephant in the room reason that you don't.  If it's all documented on the messaging app you use... .it will become obvious really quickly.

I can't imagine any reasonable person trying to "force" you to share in the face of the crazy you get.  I think if you "go early" with trying that... .it will "bring out the truth" sooner rather than later.

On the off chance that your ex straightens up and doesn't give you a problem... .that's still a win.

FF

[livednlearned]

I'm so exhausted.  I'll learn eventually.

That could be my bumper sticker  

The reason it's so exhausting is because you are healing something much bigger and deeper than just the divorce.

You are taking everything down to the foundation, and perhaps beyond that. Some people walk out of a divorce and it's just a matter of replacing furniture.

For a lot of us, we have to bring in the wrecking balls and engineers and dig a new foundation.

Most people who overcommunicate with people who behave abusively do so because it's been normalized. That you are aggravated is a sign you're healing. It means you know you deserve to be treated with kindness.

At some point, when you truly have had enough, anger will take over and become a way to motivate a major change in behavior.

She is not going to let up. The PC is going to pick up immediately on ex's problems with cursing, yelling, tendency to escalate quickly -- ex will sense that she's getting picked on, and will either start locking horns with the PC, or will escalate more with you.

You'll probably get some validation from the PC that you're handling things ok. You might get a few (welcome) tips here and there on how to phrase things, especially since you already have good instincts and don't dsyregulate or escalate the fights.

My ex eventually turned his full wrath on the PC and I got to see her model how to respond.

Hopefully you get a good PC who doesn't try to wade in and decide things for you. What you want is someone who validates how best to handle conflict, or someone who functions as an intermediary so you aren't the catcher's mitt for chronic conflict.

[takingandsending]

That could be my bumper sticker  

I'd buy one!   

[david]

We had a PC years ago. She was an attorney that got certified to be a PC. She basically made rulings like a judge. Our State ruled shortly after we had one that only judges can change custody orders so the PC was made invalid and any changes they made were voided.
The way it worked for us was that if a parent had an issue they would have to send an email explaining the issue and what the solution you had to the PC and the other parent. The other parent had 48 hours to respond in the same manner. Then the PC would make a ruling based on the emails. The rulings then superseded the court order. If you wanted to change it you had to go back to court but judges rarely overruled the PC ruling.
The problem I saw with it was my ex found a way to engage with me and I had to reply. For me the less contact we had the better things became.
I think if the PC had a better understanding of psychology things would have worked. A lot of the issues ex brought up were ways to engage and it was cheaper then going to court. Ex used the PC way more then me.