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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Can it be saved, or better yet, should I?  (Read 1181 times)
snowglobe
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« on: October 02, 2018, 07:54:11 AM »

I’ve wrote a post that since has been moved to the legal board.
While I contemplate the past, better yet, try to think what have a missed, where have I not been supportive of uBPDh I wonder if our life together can be saved? He is trying to inflict pain through real emotional abuse and financial manipulation, which I will describe in a following reply. I finally broke down under the abuse, stress and the feeling like I’m banging my head on the wall. That is it. Whatever I have been doing till now is no longer working. I radically accept that. I am where I am. Is there a way of getting out of this to a healthier relationships? Can we stay together? If my disappointment and hurt is so high, I wonder what he feels?
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2018, 07:56:06 AM »

Updates: we came back “home” on Thursday, he “poofed” and magically decided to leave “work place” a day early. I’m not going to go into the last few days, as there is nothing significant to share, except today when he took financial abuse to the next level. Telling me:” you are now living in the salary alone” wasn’t a threat. He actually meant it. When today rollled out and I got a small fraction of what we monthly require for spendings, which is only 60% of what we need as a family I panicked. He barked out :”call the lease busters and get rid of the car”, and xyz... .chore. I tried to speak in a set method: “ I understand you feel like you lost 60% of your assets, I know how hard you worked for it, I also understand that the car is a very expensive liability, but the matter of fact is, we need another vehicle to get around when, or more reasonably when you go to work”. To which Re replied:
“Get rid of the car, everyone can take a bus (d15, me, my mother and our child with disability s11). I calmly asked him, what is the purpose of him doing this to his family, what’s the end goal. His reply:
“I am teaching you obidience. I promise you, you will crawl on your knees with the whole amount of the same from the house, begging me. Even then I am not sure if I will want you, you have lost my trust because you have waited with the sale for two weeks”.
I panicked and called our business accountant, she shared private info, and I hope she won’t be fired. Her and I were friendly, as I would validate her frustrations with ubldh ways of handling finances and expecting other people to read his mind. She said that the money on the account are in abundance! And she will be happy to write me a cheque in lieu of shareholders loan repayment (I took money out earlier to invest into uBPDh’s business from our mutual line of credit for the house). I then called uBPDh’s partner and asked him if it was an ok for him and us to get a cheque so I could stay afloat financially. He gladly agreed.
As I went to pick up the cheque I wanted to speak to uBPDh and inform him, that things aren’t as bad as he thought threy are. That they still have money on the account. What happened next is a blur. As I came to the office and I asked him to come down so we could talk, he stormed downstairs and started yelling at me. “You will pay for this” (swinging in the cheque in my face, “you went behind my back, like a f-being slut that you are, asked my partner for money”. I tried to explain that I didn’t know that the cheque was going to be issued so quickly and promptly, and that I knew that he had money on the business account. He started threatening divorce, saying that he has nothing in common with me, that he lost all respect for me. When I tried to insert that 1.he has money, 2. That I’m not spending on me, I need to pay for bills, therapy and d15, he said with a sinister look on his face, you see, I told you, you will beg.
I then completely lost my mind, there, I asked if the cheque that he can afford to take from the company is a big deal for him, he replied yes. I ripped the cheque in front of him and begged him to speak to me. He stayed in the car, laughing, yelling or smiling, at the tears streaming down my face while I begged him to spare the children. He walked out with a satisfied look on his face, saying that I need to get rid of the car. I don’t remember getting home, I remember almost collapsing in stomach pain on the floor and my mom picking me up. I have colonoscopy and endoscopy scheduled for Thursday as I have blood in my stool. I was finally able to tell my mom most of the truth, sparing her from telling about cocaine and physical abuse. Still, it was enough for her to say: “enough, I can’t want you do this any longer, you need to get out, we are here to help, don’t you dare selling the house”.
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2018, 07:57:44 AM »

He is projecting already, calling me crazy and schizophrenic.last night, when I tried to speak to him, “you said that trust is important... .”, looking straight him in the eye, he started laughing, saying that (normal saccadian eye movement which everyone has when they fixated on one object)”your eyes are moving, you are schizophrenic.
I just walked away. He will make fun of me and ridicule me for that, mocking “ooh, you are being abused, you poor thing, ho tel mommy about that”.
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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2018, 08:16:44 AM »

At some point we all need to take responsibility for our emotional safety and emotional security.   

And do the work necessary to make better.

Not be responsible for some one else's emotional health.    Not wait for some one else to change.

Did you speak to a lawyer?
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2018, 08:43:58 AM »

OK... .I'm here.  Listen, there are big picture things that you keep "going back to" and they are really messing things up.

Either you are, or aren't a partner in the business.  It seems like you are.

Or

You aren't.

Pick one and stay there.  My recommendation is that you pick "partner".  Switching back and forth doesn't do anyone any good

Switching back and forth in response to his belligerence is worse

OK... .pause for a second.

Business partners coordinate with each other, yet they are also independent.  Employees, servants, slaves learn obedience.    Again... pick one.  Stay there.  It is likely not your intention, but YOU are confusing your husband  (I'm not suggesting he is justified in what he does.)

Next big picture thing


Stop trying to talk him into seeing things your way.  Nothing good will come from that.  The same cycle plays out, you talk, he threatens, you cry, he laughs, you tear up cheque, he feels he has won, you feel defeated.

It's the same cycle.

It can be a cheque, toothpaste or (insert the issue).  It's the same cycle.  You are the only one that WILL change it

Why on earth would he change what is working for him?

FF
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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2018, 09:03:26 AM »



This is a one-up. He threatened financial abuse, and cutting a check without his knowledge/permission escalated it further.
 


Snowglobe

I'm going to analyze this in a "big picture" way... and then come back for "small picture".

Big picture "Your hubby says... ."oh yeah well I'm gonna... ." and you then "escalate".  However, this is random.  It seems random to me.  Most of the time your hubby says "Oh yeah, well I'm gonna... " and you rub his feet, listen to all the details of wiping out various ethnic groups, insulting your heritage, and then demanding immediate sexual satisfaction.  All of which are usually (most of the time) granted to him.

Do you see how his actions, while repulsive, work for him?  This is critical you see this.  If you don't, we really need to stay there for a long time.  He has NO motivation to change  none... .zip zero nadda.

I've been following for a while and I struggle to figure out when you "panic".  Sure the themes are there, but he has threatened to get rid of the car, deny children therapy, deny your parents a home... etc etc and "more often than not" he gets sex, coffee and foot rubbing (among other pleasures)

Sometimes he gets what he got in this thread.  You stand up to him (well... not really, you went behind his back which is "kinda" standing up to him in an unhealthy way).  And... .he then "puts you back".  (play out the cheque tearing, crying thing) and you get back in your role and usually stay there for a while.

Note:  This same pattern played out with toothpaste.  (again... .not justifying his actions, but explaining).  You "stood up" to him, cornered him in bathroom and he put you back in place... .by injecting toothpaste into your eye.  (again... .he was wrong, you didn't deserve that... .I'm asking you to look at the pattern)

Then... .there are other times when you "stand upto him" in a healthy way.   Remember the "invoicing" thing.  Over the course of a bit you let him know that either he could submit the invoices, or you could (would)... .but your family had a contract and was going to be paid for work that had been done.  

He wanted a yes from you... .you said no consistently over a few days.  He caved in


Do you see 3 big patterns?

1. Normal role
2. You stand up in unhealthy way and get smacked down
3. You stand up in healthy way and he folds.

Please Snowglobe... .take some deep breaths here.  Please don't hear judgment.  Look for the patterns.

If you don't see them, we really need to stay there for a while.  You can't change what you don't see.

And... .as long as I've been with you, I don't understand (can't predict) when you panic, when you are healthy, and when you play the "normal" role.  (I usually guess "normal" because that is 3/4 or more of what you do)

So... .if I can't predict it from here.  How does your hubby "predict it"?  He doesn't  

When you are unhealthy, he will smack you back in line (and you go)

When you are healthy he goes "whoa... .I better not mess with that... .and folds"

That's what I see... . If you don't agree... please say so, please be specific on what you believe I have or (see) incorrectly.

FF
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2018, 09:06:35 AM »

OK... .I'm here.  Listen, there are big picture things that you keep "going back to" and they are really messing things up.

Either you are, or aren't a partner in the business.  It seems like you are.

Or

You aren't.

Pick one and stay there.  My recommendation is that you pick "partner".  Switching back and forth doesn't do anyone any good

Switching back and forth in response to his belligerence is worse

OK... .pause for a second.

Business partners coordinate with each other, yet they are also independent.  Employees, servants, slaves learn obedience.    Again... pick one.  Stay there.  It is likely not your intention, but YOU are confusing your husband  (I'm not suggesting he is justified in what he does.)

Next big picture thing


Stop trying to talk him into seeing things your way.  Nothing good will come from that.  The same cycle plays out, you talk, he threatens, you cry, he laughs, you tear up cheque, he feels he has won, you feel defeated.

It's the same cycle.

It can be a cheque, toothpaste or (insert the issue).  It's the same cycle.  You are the only one that WILL change it

Why on earth would he change what is working for him?

FF
@Ff, thank goodness you are here!
Please, I’m committed to doing anything, and everything to stop making it worse. I’m already in a pretty bad spot. What should I do next?
I hid out in my d15 room all of he evening and last night, I actually slept there, something I never do, other then when I put my s11 to sleep. I woke up this morning and went to speak to my family doctor, full disclosure. He told me that I’m being mentally abused and it sounds like he has bipolar on top of borderline. He also gave me short acting anti anxiety meds to keep around in case things get harder.
I’m not at all sure what to do next? If I keep hiding, I’m a coward. If I walk out and face him, I’m afraid I will break apart, so much pain inflicted in the last month. I remember thAt last time he was quitting smoking, he was also very abusive, that’s when things escalated and he was kicking me in my chest.
@ff, you are good with military tactical analogy, please explain
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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2018, 09:12:09 AM »

Small picture analysis (recommendation)

If you had a time machine.

He says "you will obey... here is your money"

you "I'm your partner in business, not a servant... this doesn't work for me.  If you say we don't have any money, please provide me financial statements by tomorrow afternoon."

Walk away...

Get the statements from him or from CPA.  (after giving him a chance, it's not going behind his back)

"The statements show more money available than you claim.  Help me understand that?"

(listen briefly)

"I need the normal monthly distribution from you by tomorrow afternoon at 4pm."  

(note... I don't think you should use "or else statements" (that is debatable point... .if you should draw lines in sand)

After 4pm... .get your check and live your life.  Either from him or from CPA.

I would bet massive amounts of money that he would fold with this approach.

FF

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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2018, 09:16:45 AM »


Snowglobe

Please look at this.  My understanding is that livednlearned is fairly new to your story.  

I'm going to analyze this in a "big picture" way... and then come back for "small picture".

Big picture "Your hubby says... ."oh yeah well I'm gonna... ." and you then "escalate".  However, this is random.  It seems random to me.  Most of the time your hubby says "Oh yeah, well I'm gonna... " and you rub his feet, listen to all the details of wiping out various ethnic groups, insulting your heritage, and then demanding immediate sexual satisfaction.  All of which are usually (most of the time) granted to him.

Do you see how his actions, while repulsive, work for him?  This is critical you see this.  If you don't, we really need to stay there for a long time.  He has NO motivation to change  none... .zip zero nadda.

I've been following for a while and I struggle to figure out when you "panic".  Sure the themes are there, but he has threatened to get rid of the car, deny children therapy, deny your parents a home... etc etc and "more often than not" he gets sex, coffee and foot rubbing (among other pleasures)

Sometimes he gets what he got in this thread.  You stand up to him (well... not really, you went behind his back which is "kinda" standing up to him in an unhealthy way).  And... .he then "puts you back".  (play out the cheque tearing, crying thing) and you get back in your role and usually stay there for a while.

Note:  This same pattern played out with toothpaste.  (again... .not justifying his actions, but explaining).  You "stood up" to him, cornered him in bathroom and he put you back in place... .by injecting toothpaste into your eye.  (again... .he was wrong, you didn't deserve that... .I'm asking you to look at the pattern)

Then... .there are other times when you "stand upto him" in a healthy way.   Remember the "invoicing" thing.  Over the course of a bit you let him know that either he could submit the invoices, or you could (would)... .but your family had a contract and was going to be paid for work that had been done.  

He wanted a yes from you... .you said no consistently over a few days.  He caved in


Do you see 3 big patterns?

1. Normal role
2. You stand up in unhealthy way and get smacked down
3. You stand up in healthy way and he folds.

Please Snowglobe... .take some deep breaths here.  Please don't hear judgment.  Look for the patterns.

If you don't see them, we really need to stay there for a while.  You can't change what you don't see.

And... .as long as I've been with you, I don't understand (can't predict) when you panic, when you are healthy, and when you play the "normal" role.  (I usually guess "normal" because that is 3/4 or more of what you do)

So... .if I can't predict it from here.  How does your hubby "predict it"?  He doesn't  

When you are unhealthy, he will smack you back in line (and you go)

When you are healthy he goes "whoa... .I better not mess with that... .and folds"

That's what I see... . If you don't agree... please say so, please be specific on what you believe I have or (see) incorrectly.

FF
I don’t see the patterns I mean I do see the big picture, but the fear is so overwhelming that I’m not sure just what I see. Can we stay here for a moment longer?
What would have been a healthier approach?
He is telling me:”I’m cutting you out financially, only basic Cheques, not my problem how you meet the ends meet. Go sell yourself, go get a job, until you will bring me the keys from the house on your knees begging me to stop, I won’t speak to you”
Then, he actually cuts me off financially... .
What’s healthy response to that?
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« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2018, 09:20:12 AM »


@ff, you are good with military tactical analogy, please explain

Briefly.

You want to win the "war" (winning the war is a more stable family free of abuse)

Step 1 in "warfare" is to pick a strategy.  Basically... .how will I approach this.  Think back to the United States asking the question, "fight Germany first, or Japan"  By and large they picked Germany.


Step 1 for you is to realize your patterns and "pick a pattern" to win the war.  Which of the three patterns do you believe will win?


Finally:  Tactics.  Each "battle" (day to day) needs to be viewed as part of a strategy to win the war.  You don't have to win every battle.  Most battles are best not even being fought (you conserve your energy and ammo... let hubby blow all his).  Retreat is an honorable military tactic (look at that as you going for a walk while he blows his top).

   

FF
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« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2018, 09:21:09 AM »

Small picture analysis (recommendation)

If you had a time machine.

He says "you will obey... here is your money"

you "I'm your partner in business, not a servant... this doesn't work for me.  If you say we don't have any money, please provide me financial statements by tomorrow afternoon."

Walk away...

Get the statements from him or from CPA.  (after giving him a chance, it's not going behind his back)

"The statements show more money available than you claim.  Help me understand that?"

(listen briefly)

"I need the normal monthly distribution from you by tomorrow afternoon at 4pm."  

(note... I don't think you should use "or else statements" (that is debatable point... .if you should draw lines in sand)

After 4pm... .get your check and live your life.  Either from him or from CPA.

I would bet massive amounts of money that he would fold with this approach.

FF

I predict it will unfold like this:
The cpa will confirm that I have the clearing for those, which he will deny. It’s only him and his partner that are legally shareholders.
He will call me “you $&Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post), you are conniving, trying to scam me for my money, now wait for the hell get loose, you won’t see the penny for your greed”
It went very similar to that. When he wants to punish me and make me suffer, unless I hide under the rock and prepare to die, he unleashes all the fury I never knew he was capable of
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« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2018, 09:27:22 AM »

I predict it will unfold like this:
 

Help me understand how a similar thing didn't play out with the "invoices".  My memory was that he threatened and did his thing then as well.

FF
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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2018, 09:31:22 AM »

I predict it will unfold like this:
 unless I hide under the rock and prepare to die, he unleashes all the fury I never knew he was capable of

Listen... .this is part of him trying to get you back in line. 

My understanding is he is capable or has desire to wipe out several races/ethnicity of people, including your own from the face of the earth.  That's pretty bad, I would suggest that covers just about anything else as far as not having shock value.

He says shocking belligerent things, for some reason you listen in great detail... .and then fall back in line.

Sometimes you don't.

I don't understand the "sometimes you don't part" and I guarantee you he doesn't either

FF
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« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2018, 11:04:59 AM »

My question is where have you not been supportive of your husband?

And where has he been supportive of you?

You remember the old fashioned gentleman that you fell in love with when you were a teenager? Well, he certainly doesn’t behave that way now and hasn’t for many years, I would suspect.

You’ve been waiting for him to change. I think he’s showing you who he is. At this point, is this really what you want, not only for your life, but for your children?
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« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2018, 01:06:01 PM »

 I think he’s showing you who he is.

Believe who he is... .please.

If you want a change, show him something different.  Do that consistently.

He may show you a different side of himself, or he may not.  I get it that there is anxiety in that notion... that he may not.

Said/asked another way... .what lies down the current path you are on?

FF
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« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2018, 01:42:54 PM »

Help me understand how a similar thing didn't play out with the "invoices".  My memory was that he threatened and did his thing then as well.

FF
It wasn’t as simple as that:
I told his partner that I need the money, but the invoices haven’t been paid in full, I collected about 20% of the amount owed. It has been June, I have only received 5% thereafter. UBPDh gives money in Thebes same manner “eat the cake”. If he is in a good mood and is generous, he will throw me a “bone”, such as expensive purchase, or pay for something for the children. I never receive money more then the basic need. I suspect it’s largely due to the fact that it’s a very potent form of control. As long as I don’t have access to text money, I comply and do what he wants me to do.
The direct authorization for the funds to be released comes from
First- his partner who controls all of the finances
Second- uBPDh
At the time of the invoice payment, partners girlfriend came from overseas, so he needed the condo “at work” for his privacy. Thus he authorized for uBPDh to get a small share. The rest of the amount that has been collected lies in the deep pockets of the company. After this incident with the cheque, I suspect there won’t be any more talk with me regarding the finances.
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« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2018, 01:45:55 PM »

Listen... .this is part of him trying to get you back in line. 

My understanding is he is capable or has desire to wipe out several races/ethnicity of people, including your own from the face of the earth.  That's pretty bad, I would suggest that covers just about anything else as far as not having shock value.

He says shocking belligerent things, for some reason you listen in great detail... .and then fall back in line.

Sometimes you don't.

I don't understand the "sometimes you don't part" and I guarantee you he doesn't either

FF
I fall in line when things get so bad that I feel threatened for my existence and for the well being of the children. Or when he threatens the divorce, which he did yesterday.
Ff, how do I behave today? I can’t stay in hiding forever. I’m going to drive the kids to extra curricular and do some work for school. Last night I left the bedroom and didn’t return, I have not seen him since last night. When I see him, how do I behave?
“Hi, how are you?” Seems so fake and inappropriate.
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« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2018, 01:52:23 PM »

Believe who he is... .please.

If you want a change, show him something different.  Do that consistently.

He may show you a different side of himself, or he may not.  I get it that there is anxiety in that notion... that he may not.

Said/asked another way... .what lies down the current path you are on?

FF
The way i see it is I’ve exhausted the doormat tactic- not working.
Not sure what tactics to adopt now.
Go f- yourself, silent treatment, ignore is one I feel, but rather not do, for I do find myself more emotionally intelligent.
Pretend like nothing happened- isn’t productive either
There are 3 outcomes as far as I see it
1. He divorces me (most likely)
2. He returns and blames all on me, but leaves a window for me to make things right, which I mostly followed in our relationships. More massages, more begging, he then graciously “forgives me”
3. He cokes out and comes back asking to make up, I also take that root
Only from the last two I also have several options- to place a condition for him to seek help, or put nicely start seeing therapist who specializes in BPD, even that doesn’t mean any progress
Another option is to refuse to speak to him while he is high, and “miss the window of opportunity”, in either of the two options I don’t save my dignity. It’s almost as if he is doing me a favour by staying with me.
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« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2018, 01:56:42 PM »

All those three outcomes are contingent on what he does. How about you taking matters into your own hands?

See a lawyer. Find out what your rights are. Now. Before things get worse.
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« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2018, 02:17:32 PM »

If you act like a victim, he will treat you that way. Why not save goodies (feet rubbing and other kindnesses) for when he treats you well? Otherwise you're telling him with your behavior that you are OK with being treated poorly.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2018, 02:53:38 PM »

Went through intake and am booking appointment for the following week. In the entire history of the relationships I have never taken the matters into my own hands
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« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2018, 05:12:53 PM »

Went through intake and am booking appointment for the following week. In the entire history of the relationships I have never taken the matters into my own hands

Excellent, Snowglobe!    It's a great time to start being your own advocate--and a wonderful behavior to model for your daughter! Yay, Snowglobe--you are on your way to becoming your version of WonderWoman! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSB4wGIdDwo
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2018, 05:32:52 PM »

Excellent, Snowglobe!    It's a great time to start being your own advocate--and a wonderful behavior to model for your daughter! Yay, Snowglobe--you are on your way to becoming your version of WonderWoman! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSB4wGIdDwo
Thank you, Cat
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« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2018, 07:12:47 PM »

Specific tactic- where do I sleep tonight?
I gave him the custody of the family bed last night as I needed to gain my composure. So I slept with d15. I don’t want to impose on the kids or have them involved in this turmoil. On one hand it’s easier for me to sleep in my bed, shower, closet, mattress. On the other hand, isn’t it reinforcing to sleep with someone who’s sole purpose is to punish me? Major confusion? What do you suggest?
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« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2018, 08:16:38 PM »

Why would you sleep with him? Isn’t your safety more important as well as your own dignity? Sleeping with him basically makes you available for whatever he wants to do. Also if he argues or wants to keep you up - it isn’t likely you will get the sleep you need.

Sleep is essential - like food -water. Your D15 already knows what’s going on - she probably knows more than you realize ( I did at that age ) . Sleep where you are safe.
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« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2018, 08:27:31 PM »

Please start thinking about you - not how this affects him. Thinking like that puts all the focus on him- not your feelings or values.

Look at these two sentences :

My neighbor says he wants to punish me and hurt me. Would it be reinforcing to him if I left my front door open while I sleep tonight ?

My neighbor says he wants to punish me and hurt me. To keep myself safe while I sleep I will lock my door.

Which one is more empowering ? Which one keeps you safe ?
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« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2018, 08:39:18 PM »

@Notwendy,
It’s been a month since we were intimate last, he doesn’t try to have sex when he is punishing me, on a contrary. He tells me “move away to your side so I don’t feel you”. The only thing he might do is disturb my sleep through moaning and tossing.
After a day of calm, surprisingly, the last time I spoke to him was yesterday during the “eye movement” remark, I felt much calmer and more composed. I also heard my own thoughts and felt safer, strangely.
It’s a very bad situation all and all. If I’m avoiding him, how can the situation get better? Is there even a chance or a way to improve things to stay together?
I heard loud and clear that once I choose a tactic, I need to stick to it. Which I plan to do. I’m no longer massaging feet, or apologizing, I’m not strong enough yet to pick myself up either. With impending procedure to see what’s up (colonoscopy and endoscopy) I feel uneasy.
My mom called me today saying that when uBPDh came home and asked where the kids were (extra curricular) she told him I drove them to it. He went brooding saying he wanted to do that (all he needed to do was to send a text to inform me, I would have gladly obliged). He then went to our bedroom to lie down. Whenever he is upset, he burrows himself into many pillows surrounding himself with it like a cacoon, and stays under blankets. She told me that he looked miserable and she pitied him. Asked me if I should sleep in the bedroom tonight. A part of me that loves him wanted to come in and give him the biggest hug, imagining a broken boy who is so angry about something that happened earlier that he can’t stop testing the limits. When I came in, he was in busting himself in the kitchen, with no concern in sight. He tried to look at my face a few times, I bet to read me. There was no sign of concern or remorse, or indication he was willing to change anything. I am not sure he has any empathy for anyone other than himself. So I’m sticking to the tactic of “I’ll be nice when you are nice”
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« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2018, 08:40:45 PM »

Please start thinking about you - not how this affects him. Thinking like that puts all the focus on him- not your feelings or values.

Look at these two sentences :

My neighbor says he wants to punish me and hurt me. Would it be reinforcing to him if I left my front door open while I sleep tonight ?

My neighbor says he wants to punish me and hurt me. To keep myself safe while I sleep I will lock my door.

Which one is more empowering ? Which one keeps you safe ?
I get it, but how do you move things with the neighbor in a better direction?
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« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2018, 04:46:08 AM »

I get it, but how do you move things with the neighbor in a better direction?

You give the neighbor time to settle down, calm down and think things through.    You give the neighbor the opportunity to make a better choice without rushing to fix things or make it better.


I am going to be blunt Snowglobe,   continuously participating in this drama,   continuously engaging with him in these moments of conflict is enabling him to get sicker.    It allows the illness to get worse.   It is NOT stopping the bleeding as it says in step one in the box to the right.  Bullet: important point (click to insert in post)

It’s been a month since we were intimate last, he doesn’t try to have sex when he is punishing me, on a contrary. He tells me “move away to your side so I don’t feel you”.

You are only responsible for your own emotional safety and security.    Not his.    Just yours.   Sleep some place where you are emotionally safe from cruel words.


If I’m avoiding him, how can the situation get better? Is there even a chance or a way to improve things to stay together?

before the situation can get better the conflict has to stop. before the situation can get better it has to stop getting worse.

  both of you, need time to return to emotional baseline, allow your thoughts to clear, to get into a problem solving mind set.

rushing to hug him when he is hiding in bed adds emotion to an already over charged situation,   it adds fuel to the fire.  it is participating in the drama.   its enabling of bad behavior.  it deprives him of his chance to self soothe.

After a day of calm, surprisingly, the last time I spoke to him was yesterday during the “eye movement” remark, I felt much calmer and more composed. I also heard my own thoughts and felt safer, strangely.

like NotWendy said this is where you want to focus your energy and efforts.    make decisions that make you feel calmer, more composed, and safer.      once you are calm, composed, and physically and emotionally safe, then and ONLY THEN, can you think about improvement tactics.


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« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2018, 05:30:00 AM »

A part of me that loves him wanted to come in and give him the biggest hug, imagining a broken boy who is so angry about something that happened earlier that he can’t stop testing the limits.

Except that he isn't a child. He's an adult, and one of the aspects of adulthood is being responsible for your own actions. Actions have consequences: both desirable ones and not desirable ones. We learn from them. Even a child in kindergarten learns that if you don't play nice, your friends won't want to play with you, if you hit your friend, you will go to "time out".

Consider this: you have been doing the same things for many years- appeasing, soothing, protecting your H from the consequences of his behavior. How has this worked for you so far? Have you fixed the situation? Nobody is asking you to avoid your H indefinitely, or to leave the marriage, or to stop trying to make things better but to stop doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results.

The frightening thing for all of us is that, we don't know how to fix another person or make another person decide to love us and treat us kindly. We can analyze what we have been doing to try to make things better and decide how well it is working, and if it isn't - try something else. We have tools to try that have been helpful- but the one thing we can not change is another person's free will to choose and direct their own behavior.

The divisions on this board: staying, conflicted, getting over a relationship are the categories that reflect the feelings of the poster. What is absent from all of them is the other person- they have choices. A person may be posting on staying- they may want to stay- but we don't have instructions for how to make someone else stay. Their partners can choose to leave if they wish.

You want to make your situation better, but also your H has his own free will. If he wants to stay, he can choose that. If he wants to leave, he can choose that too. If he wants to abuse you, he can do that. In this case- the choice you have is to make yourself available for him to abuse, or to keep yourself safe and not allow him to abuse you. The first choice- be available doesn't teach him that to have a friend, he needs to play nice. The second one might, or it might not. That is the uncertainty- that is the source of fear- for all of us. Making changes might risk the relationship or it may not and it may even lead to improvements, but we don't know. The unknown is scary. What you do know is what you have now and you know how to have what you have now: a marriage with a man who treats you the way your H treats you. Sometimes we do choose what we know over what we don't know even if it isn't something we are happy about. It's familiar and there is security in the familiar.
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