She loves me if I leave, and hates me if I love. How to mark the D day?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

uBPDw has become super nice as soon as I started talking about separation. It's been several years of journey for me to understand BPD, learn DBT and use all the skills. At this point, I have decided to move on, in the interest of my 4 year old daughter and myself. As soon as I bring up the topic of "what's next", "things are not going well"... "you talk about Divorce when you are mad", "let's talk about it"... she turns into an angel and says how she never meant what she said. She does project issues on me and says it's all my fault. Tried Couple counseling and didn't work. The therapist has become the worst person for her. Therapist clearly saw the pattern in the first session and recommended her to take DBT classes. She is completely unwilling. I know for sure that she will go on a crazy roller coaster if I go NC and if I move out. She will take my daughter in a good ride as well. She might even do suicidal threats. I have been talking to attorneys and finalizing a good one. I have lot to think about my strategy for parental custody and property division.

How do folks generally end this drama and reach the NC day or Divorce day? I know there is no one size fit all but it's hurts me to leave my loved one because she is unwilling to see the problem or take help, and I have a role to protect another loved one (my daughter). It's even more challenging to leave when she camouflages her demons when she remotely senses abandonment. 

[Toad17]

uBPDw has become super nice as soon as I started talking about separation. It's been several years of journey for me to understand BPD, learn DBT and use all the skills. At this point, I have decided to move on, in the interest of my 4 year old daughter and myself. As soon as I bring up the topic of "what's next", "things are not going well"... "you talk about Divorce when you are mad", "let's talk about it"... she turns into an angel and says how she never meant what she said. She does project issues on me and says it's all my fault. Tried Couple counseling and didn't work. The therapist has become the worst person for her. Therapist clearly saw the pattern in the first session and recommended her to take DBT classes. She is completely unwilling. I know for sure that she will go on a crazy roller coaster if I go NC and if I move out. She will take my daughter in a good ride as well. She might even do suicidal threats. I have been talking to attorneys and finalizing a good one. I have lot to think about my strategy for parental custody and property division.

How do folks generally end this drama and reach the NC day or Divorce day? I know there is no one size fit all but it's hurts me to leave my loved one because she is unwilling to see the problem or take help, and I have a role to protect another loved one (my daughter). It's even more challenging to leave when she camouflages her demons when she remotely senses abandonment. 

[takingandsending]

I think most of us find it is a process. NC day and Divorce day rarely coincide ... .especially when children are involved.

I think you want to have a plan in place prior to separation that you and your L have reviewed, with details worked out like temporary custody plan in place and house/property rights protected. For me, when I left the marital home (literally and figuratively), I had a custody arrangement and a financial plan. That said, in my case, I did most of the compromising and came away, in the heat/pressure cooker of a bad situation getting worse daily, with less than was good for me or the children. I then spent the next 9 months working back to what I thought was the starting point.

Be prepared for when your wife realizes that being super nice won't change your mind that she may likely become super not-nice. It's pretty normal. And she may suddenly swing to trying to force you out of the house before you have what you need in place. As far as NC, each day, I have less contact with my xw. This is a healthy and good thing for us both. But even within our minimal contact, it still carries a level of annoying dysfunction. She contacts me for money or when she want something from me. She does not respond to any contact that I make re. the kids (which believe me is very few and far between). It still is and will always be about control. And with kids involved, I don't think you ever get to be 100% NC, as beautiful as that would be.

[ForeverDad]

Years ago there was a reference to chosen and unchosen relationships.  Chosen are spouses (adults).  Unchosen are parents (adults) and children (starting as minors), etc.  Divorce only addresses the chosen relationship.  You'll always be a son, a daughter or a parent.

While none of us Nice Guys and Nice Gals want to pick one category versus the other, our children are minors and need our guidance, parenting, training, input and support.  So our children must be our top priority - along with our own welfare.  Our spouses are adults and while a lesser priority for us, at least we can point them in the right direction even if they're not listening to us.

[livednlearned]

That must be really hard on you when she flips to nice.

Has she made suicide attempts in the past?

[Toad17]

Has she made suicide attempts in the past?

Thank you all for taking time to respond.

There was one incident when she actually took a knife, held on her wrist and was threating to cut herself. I asked her to stop but she didn't. I said, "let me record so that you realize later how crazy this sounds". I did record and she stopped. If I talk about it now, she claims that she was joking and she was not serious. This was before I learnt DBT skills. There was another incident when she said she would jump off the bridge. I had to use all my DBT skills to calm her down. There were couple of other minor incidents where she came and showed me a scratch on her wrist and claimed that she tried to harm herself. I had to deal with those episodes as well. As she is not having an emotional outburst now, I can't say for sure if she goes suicidal if I leave. But many times when her self triggered conflict is over, she tries to bite her finger hard and stomps her feet, and then shows the bite mark. It's weird.
I have been trying so hard to push her to DBT when I have some leverage on her. She is so reluctant. She thinks she is perfect and I'm the one who needs lot of help!

[ForeverDad]

The professionals will tell us we are not qualified to assess what is behind the suicidal comments.  Maybe it's real suicidal ideation.  Or maybe it's actually manipulation and guilting to get us to comply or appease the person.  It's not up to us to decide whether it is real or contrived.  (For example, doctors will generally not treat their own families, they're too close, emotions can blur their perceptions and judgment.  Support is fine, we can do that, but an emotionally neutral professional is best to assess and handle these situations.)

As for suicidal talk or threats, what you wrote is so very helpful... ."I really care about you. I just don't have the skills to help you when you feel like killing yourself. If you say you are going to kill yourself, I will call 911."

There is a warning though.  Picture the frantic spouse calling emergency services.  They arrive.  What can happen?  The previously claiming suicidal spouse can astoundingly recover in minutes and counter, "No, I'm not.  It's not me, it's her!"  So not only can there be Denial, but there may also be Blame Shifting.  How best to handle this?  Are there any witnesses with can support what really was happening when the call was made?  When I called 911 I had a voice recorder running.  Eventually that recording made a big difference.  Yes, my now-ex claimed I was the one behaving badly.  And the police defaulted to believing her over me.  Fortunately I didn't get carted off, my son saved me. 

Back then we didn't have the vast assortment of devices that can record, whether video or audio.  Now everything is digital and much is quite miniaturized.  However, another warning.  Waving a recorder in someone's face can trigger overreactions.  All we want to do is document incidents while also seeking not to antagonize the other.  I recorded on the down low, so to speak.  Often it was in a pocket.  Eventually my ex knew I could be recording sometimes but I never tried to antagonize her.  All it was was documentation of reality.

[livednlearned]

How do folks generally end this drama and reach the NC day or Divorce day? I know there is no one size fit all but it's hurts me to leave my loved one because she is unwilling to see the problem or take help, and I have a role to protect another loved one (my daughter). It's even more challenging to leave when she camouflages her demons when she remotely senses abandonment. 

Prepare yourself emotionally and leave no detail unturned.

You know best how you will feel in response to telling her, and what reactions you are likely to have. I imagine guilt is what you'll struggle with the most, especially if she attempts to take her life. Shari Manning's Loving Someone with BPD has a chapter about guilt (for caregivers) to help navigate those choppy waters. She also references caregiver guilt in a chapter on suicidal ideation so that you understand how your own responses are in play during these dynamics.

My ex made veiled threats to take his life and my son's life after we were divorced and walking that line between reacting and responding was hair-raising. Make sure you have a therapist you can call so you have a calming, wise voice to balance your own, especially if you are prone to rescuing and saving, which many of us are (or were). Not just for your sake, but for her's. If she threatens to commit suicide and you change your mind about leaving, it teaches her what works to get you to stay.

It is so heart breaking, Toad. You are in an impossible position with your daughter and your wife.

As for logistics, what are the ways you think it best to deliver the news? Maybe we can suggest tweaks to what you think is best, given the ways her BPD traits manifest.

[Toad17]

Thanks folks, and thx LNL for your kind words. I'll add that book to my bucket list. In terms of logistics, I'm planning to take lot of legal help to ensure everything I do is in the best interest of my daughter. I would like my wife to take DBT classes and I'm trying to get her into the sessions when I still have some leverage but she is completely reluctant. The Couple therapist clearly told her that she needs those classes irrespective of me being in her life. The therapist became the bad person for her and now she is unwilling to go to any couple counseling. I was hoping to get her into DBT classes through couple counseling. But it doesn't matter if she takes it or not, my exit strategy would be to plan everything based on legal opinion and take the steps needed to safeguard my kid. 
My another worry is my parents. Both of our parents didn't agree on our marriage due to religious reasons. My parents came around. Her parents didn't. So it has made my decision even more hard. I guess I'll have lot of guilt to work on, as I navigate through these rough waters. So thanks for recommending that book. You guys rock!