Feeling lost -- divorcing BPD husband who is putting kids in the middle

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I apologize in advance for the long post.  I find myself here 18 months into divorcing my BPD husband.  I don't know where else to go, and I need someone who understands what I am trying to deal with.  I didn't know he was BPD until our marriage counselor and my therapist clued me into it when I tried to get him to help me save our marriage before I went down the divorce route.  That obviously failed.  

I feel like he has placed our 8 and 12 year-old sons in the middle.  We split time 50/50, and I have to brace myself for what new information he is going to have shared with them during their time with him every time they return to me.  He tells them I am selfish, a liar, that I am mean to him, that he hates me, that I stole from him, that I forced them out of our family home, that I don't want our family dog (he will not let me see her), introduced them to a girlfriend a week after I moved out of the house, shares with them adult information about the divorce, showed them emails sent by our former mediator (whom he fired after decided she was not "neutral") . . . I could go on and on.  My oldest had the insight to tell me, "the way Dad is handling the divorce is not good for me and my brother."  And my youngest tells me all the time that he knows one of us has to be lying and he is so confused.

I cannot communicate with their dad about these things because no matter what I do, it is wrong and everything he does is right.  According to him, everything the boys tell me is a complete lie, he has been nothing but kind and considerate, and I am the one who has a personal vendetta against him.  I have taken the high road throughout the entire ordeal no matter what he has thrown at me (which is its own nightmarish post) because I know that is what is best for my kids.  But what he is doing is taking a toll on them, and I feel powerless to protect them.

I have them both in therapy (he refuses to take them and told them if I want pay someone to play games with them, I can pay him to do that).  And I tell them that I know they must be really confused by what they hear from Dad and what they hear from me, but I promise them that I will never lie to them about anything and that I will never say anything bad about their dad to them.  

My friends and family continually tell me that it will get better, he will get over it, he will move on, it will not always be this way.  But I am not so sure.  No one has any influence on him.  And, when a typical person would have recovered from the initial emotional blow by this time, he has gotten worse.  And I am emotionally drained.  And I am looking for people who understand that I am not dealing with the typical person who will be able to see his role in this and accept accountability and stop blaming me for everything.  And I hoping for tips on how to cope and how to help my children cope.  Is my best option to figure out how to be immune to his words and actions and figure out how to impart that same ability on my kids?

I've read "Stop Walking on Eggshells," "Splitting," and "Will I Ever Be Free of You" -- and I'm open to any suggestions of anything else I should check out that may help.

[Glowinoc]

I apologize in advance for the long post.  I find myself here 18 months into divorcing my BPD husband.  I don't know where else to go, and I need someone who understands what I am trying to deal with.  I didn't know he was BPD until our marriage counselor and my therapist clued me into it when I tried to get him to help me save our marriage before I went down the divorce route.  That obviously failed.  

I feel like he has placed our 8 and 12 year-old sons in the middle.  We split time 50/50, and I have to brace myself for what new information he is going to have shared with them during their time with him every time they return to me.  He tells them I am selfish, a liar, that I am mean to him, that he hates me, that I stole from him, that I forced them out of our family home, that I don't want our family dog (he will not let me see her), introduced them to a girlfriend a week after I moved out of the house, shares with them adult information about the divorce, showed them emails sent by our former mediator (whom he fired after decided she was not "neutral") . . . I could go on and on.  My oldest had the insight to tell me, "the way Dad is handling the divorce is not good for me and my brother."  And my youngest tells me all the time that he knows one of us has to be lying and he is so confused.

I cannot communicate with their dad about these things because no matter what I do, it is wrong and everything he does is right.  According to him, everything the boys tell me is a complete lie, he has been nothing but kind and considerate, and I am the one who has a personal vendetta against him.  I have taken the high road throughout the entire ordeal no matter what he has thrown at me (which is its own nightmarish post) because I know that is what is best for my kids.  But what he is doing is taking a toll on them, and I feel powerless to protect them.

I have them both in therapy (he refuses to take them and told them if I want pay someone to play games with them, I can pay him to do that).  And I tell them that I know they must be really confused by what they hear from Dad and what they hear from me, but I promise them that I will never lie to them about anything and that I will never say anything bad about their dad to them.  

My friends and family continually tell me that it will get better, he will get over it, he will move on, it will not always be this way.  But I am not so sure.  No one has any influence on him.  And, when a typical person would have recovered from the initial emotional blow by this time, he has gotten worse.  And I am emotionally drained.  And I am looking for people who understand that I am not dealing with the typical person who will be able to see his role in this and accept accountability and stop blaming me for everything.  And I hoping for tips on how to cope and how to help my children cope.  Is my best option to figure out how to be immune to his words and actions and figure out how to impart that same ability on my kids?

I've read "Stop Walking on Eggshells," "Splitting," and "Will I Ever Be Free of You" -- and I'm open to any suggestions of anything else I should check out that may help.

[Torched]

Hi.  Sorry you are in this situation.  Mine was similar, and I remember only 18 months ago being very frightened of the outcome of the ex’s attempts to steer the children into thinking dad was a horrible person.

I took the advice of people on this board, as well as my children’s counselor.  I did go separately to the counselor prior to my kid’s appointments (ex did not participate/hid) and was able to gain some encouraging insight and tips.

The advice was to validate my children’s concern when they would tell me that they were upset/confused by the bad things mom said about me.  To say that it must really hurt to hear and feel these comments, and that it must also be confusing.  I would ask if they wanted to share what was being said, safely and without repercussion.  When they would share, I would then clearly approach the issue, for example:

“Mom keeps saying your’re a bad person.”

Me:  That’s too bad.  Let’s talk about that and think about what you have seen with your own eyes.  How does dad treat people, even people he doesn’t really like?

“Really well... .”

Me:  How about people dad doesn’t even know?  Like last winter when dad helped the stumbling homeless man who fell off his bike trying to cross the highway when we were coming home from dance?  Does that sound like a bad person action?  Can you think of ANY bad things that you have seen me do?

“No, not at all... .”

Me:  You may wonder if there are any things that dad hasn’t told you, that there is some secret “bad” thing.  There isn’t.  Your mom is hurting and is in pain and blames dad for those feelings.  Dad feels bad about your mom’s pain but your mom is going to be o.k.

I had to have these types of discussions several times with both kids.  After a while, they saw that it was true.  Truth is pretty powerful.  My children are so much better now and they are understanding and thriving even though the behavior continues.

All I can say is hang in there and learn how to respond to this.  You can’t change your ex, you can only help your kids see objectively and truthfully into the matter.

[kells76]

Hi Glowinoc, glad you found the site! This is definitely a group that will understand that you're "not dealing with the typical person who will be able to see his role in this and accept accountability and stop blaming me for everything". Oh yeah.

You've been through a lot with your BPDh. I'm so sorry for all the exhaustion and pain you've been through over the years. It's really wearing, isn't it?

You've tried taking the high road for your kids, and want to keep doing it, and you're getting pretty tired. It is exhausting when a disordered person projects their actions and feelings on to you.

Good job starting to get information about what to do differently. Being open to trying something different speaks to your commitment to your kids! You are able to do something your xH is not -- be willing to try something healthy and different -- and that will speak a lot to your boys.

It sounds like your kids have a sense that something is "off" with Dad. It's really great that you still take them to counseling and that they talk to you about how they feel about Dad.

A very important, sometimes non-intuitive skill that parents (and stepparents; my DH has two girls) need in these situations is validation. Not "everything you say is right, buddy" type validation, but a way of Hearing the feelings and emotions your kids are putting out there, and focusing on that instead of your feelings, Dad's feelings, The Right Feelings, or other stuff.

One example would be something like this (which really happened for us):

SD12: I like cleaning here. When we clean at Mom's house everyone always bickers.

OK, so here would be a few non-validating responses:

Me: Mom's just doing the best she can. You should try to not argue at Mom's.
Me: You should be grateful to have two clean houses to live in. Some kids don't even have that.
Me: You're right, Mom always bickers. She doesn't have good self-control.
Me: I work really hard at not fighting. I'm glad it works here.

So, response 1 basically tells SD that she was "wrong" to feel how she felt about the bickering. Response 2 is similar (the way you felt was ungrateful and bad). Response 3 makes the conversation about Mom, and response 4 makes the conversation about me. Here's what some validating responses might look like:

Me: What's that like for you? (I think I did that one)
Me: How do you feel when that happens?
Me: Huh... .
Me: No kidding... .
Me: Oh yeah? (with a soft tone, not confrontative)

So the validating responses have some things in common, like: leaving the door open for SD to keep talking (if she wants to), keeping the focus on SD's feelings, and not "judging" how she feels as "wrong" (like the "you shouldn't... ." responses).

One helpful book on true validation (not the "everything you say is awesome" validation) is called The Power of Validation. Another one (which member Livednlearned often recommends) is called I Don't Have To Make Everything All Better (I think).

These are strong tools that can help your sons to think for themselves -- which is something their dad is likely unable to support.

Keep posting here, keep asking questions, and we'll be here for you... .

kells76

[david]

My ex painted me as a monster. That was really difficult to deal with in the beginning. I found a T for myself, after several tries, that clicked. I learned to listen and validate. Over time our boys opened up more to me. I learned that their moms house was not a good place for them. I was able to get 50/50. All this was over a period of three to four years. This all started in 2007 and our boys were 4.5 and 8 at the time. Our youngest is 15 now. Ex still does her thing accusing me of all kinds of crazy stuff. They figured things out by her behavior compared to my behavior. Ex had basically pushed them away and they do not believe anything she says. I came to the realization that there was nothing I could do as far as discussing anything with ex. I have accepted that. It is difficult sometimes.

[ForeverDad]

I came to the realization that there was nothing I could do as far as discussing anything with ex. I have accepted that. It is difficult sometimes.

It is what it is.  We accept "what is", knowing what we can change is probably limited, so we figure out how best to deal with it and move forward with our lives and parenting.

[lonely38]

This is all good for me to hear.  I really empathize with you, especially if you still have children at home.  Mine are all grown and they are definitely giving themselves distance from both my BPD husand and myself.  I know a little about what my BPD husband has shared to justify himself to them.

I am choosing to not communicate with them, unless it is a quick text, etc.  I keep getting reminders that this will all be a process and that I will get my relationship back with my children.  I have been very close to them and very involved in their lives, so in some ways, I am feeling re-victimized with their distance.

I have gotten great advice on this site because there are people going through very similar situations who can offer advice based on experience.

Hang in there!

[QuietF8888]

These stories really resonate with me.  Going through similar.  Early stages.

This is such a great place!  Looking forward to reading and responding more.

[david]

I have stepsons, exs from her first marriage. They actually had an intervention with me telling me to divorce their mom. I was shocked. During the process they kept their distance from both of us. Ex did some nasty things to them during that time. Eventually they started talking to me and our relationship went back to the way it was. One is total no contact with his mom. Another is limited.
The one with limited contact recently had a baby. He invited me to come to the hospital. He also invited his mom but she was invited at a time no one else would be there. I arrived about two hours after that and both parents were not to happy with whatever happened with ex. I didn't ask but they made a vague reference to something she did and said.

[QuietF8888]

I found this following quote inspirational.

"Me:  How about people dad doesn’t even know?  Like last winter when dad helped the stumbling homeless man who fell off his bike trying to cross the highway when we were coming home from dance?  Does that sound like a bad person action?  Can you think of ANY bad things that you have seen me do?

“No, not at all... .”

As a man, as stressed and as busy as I am dealing with theuBPD wife, posts like this not only give me hope, but serve as little pieces of the puzzle to get out of this hell.

Thanks sir, whoever you are.