The path was longer than I'd hoped

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So, here I am, standing for my marriage, taking a tough path, following my values, doing what I think is right. It's tough... .it's tougher than I'd imagined it could be. Even now I have no idea whether or not this path will lead to marital reconciliation or just the same result I could have got 18m ago had I have proactively pushed the divorce down the road she said she wanted to go down.

I feel like I am the only one with the map, I am going my way, on my own. In the distance I can hear my W and her cronies  procrastinating about which way to go... .It's quiet where I am... .but it's pretty lonely and I can also hear my old friends discussing with my W about the path I have taken, what I'm up to and why I'm doing this that and the other, they too are 'helping' her decide which route to take and how to approach it... .or are they just the voices of paranoia in my head caused by the complete vacuum of other interaction and absence of understanding from my peers. Either way I feel very much alone on my tough and long trail. 

I read something recently about Spiritual delusion, it defined delusion as:

"a false, unshakable idea or belief, which is out of keeping with the patient's educational, cultural and social background, it is held with extraordinary conviction and subjective certainty. One can argue with each case but delusion is a phenomenon that is outside normal experience, not ordinary"

So, in many if not all of my close friends view I have a false, unshakable belief that my wife has BPD traits. It is out of my educational, cultural and social background to believe that someone I have known intimately for 21 years has a personality disorder, yet I hold this belief with extraordinary conviction and subjective certainty... .It is not ordinary to believe your wife has a personality disorder. Yet this is the 'delusional' belief I find myself with and therefore this is the map I find in my hand and have chosen to follow... .yet this path takes me further down this definition of delusional thought as it takes me more and more away from the consensus view of my W and more towards the isolated, abnormal belief.

But they don't know what I know, they don't see what I hear, they don't hear what I hear... .

So, this delusional, solitary, paranoid filled, tough path towards an ill-defined destination  of mine, how's it going for me... .I might add that I had spent so long making things worse I was pretty much as low as one could get:

Pro's
Less, almost no conflict
Some sporadic communication
Awesome relationship with my 3 children
Ability to defuse conflict between my children
Greater understanding of D10's emotional sensitivities and how to talk to her about them
Greater understanding of D5's natural emotional volatility and how to deal with them
Greater understanding of the physical signals my body gives me about my own emotional responses to situations... .I'm able to interpret my own emotions via by their physical expression
Ability to create space and time to allow myself to respond vs react... .and response is often silence
Learning that showing is more powerful than telling
Learning that allegations and showing W evidence results in her adapting her behaviour to avoid detection, not her correcting  behaviour or making herself accountable
Accepting that accountability is unlikely
Wife's chaotic behaviour seems to be reducing as emotional intensity is sucked out of the home environment

Cons
Divorce proceedings continuing
Time is ebbing away... .over 2 years now
Awareness of extent of my W's lies... .maybe that's not a con
Paranoia that my close friends are talking to my W behind my back... .or she has approached them and they have not informed me. Friends seem more aligned to her narrative than mine. Resulting in me minimising my communication with them to avoid things getting back to her.
Opting to be there for my kids in the evenings, wife opting to go out, further isolation
Burying my opinions and feelings deep within to avoid expressing my true feelings about W behaviour.
Total lack of information flow with regards to the divorce and her intentions
Inability to plan for the future due to multiple different outcomes based on her choices... .I am okay with most of the outcomes and plan to manage out the ones I am not happy with (hence current path I have chosen to follow), but each outcome has different 'futures' so very little can be actioned and it's more thought than doing.
Sense of isolation
Constant self doubt... .that's kind of a positive in a way, but it's like walking through fudge... .the fudge of self doubt.

I 'KNOW' (delusional) that given what I have experienced that the path I have chosen is the best path to be on... .But it's not easy and there's very few companions and rest stops on this path. FWIW I'm not depressed, I'm not anxious, emotionally and spiritually I am strong as an Ox... .but I'm not happy either... .I'm just meeeeeeeeehhhh.

Enabler 

[Enabler]

So, here I am, standing for my marriage, taking a tough path, following my values, doing what I think is right. It's tough... .it's tougher than I'd imagined it could be. Even now I have no idea whether or not this path will lead to marital reconciliation or just the same result I could have got 18m ago had I have proactively pushed the divorce down the road she said she wanted to go down.

I feel like I am the only one with the map, I am going my way, on my own. In the distance I can hear my W and her cronies  procrastinating about which way to go... .It's quiet where I am... .but it's pretty lonely and I can also hear my old friends discussing with my W about the path I have taken, what I'm up to and why I'm doing this that and the other, they too are 'helping' her decide which route to take and how to approach it... .or are they just the voices of paranoia in my head caused by the complete vacuum of other interaction and absence of understanding from my peers. Either way I feel very much alone on my tough and long trail. 

I read something recently about Spiritual delusion, it defined delusion as:

"a false, unshakable idea or belief, which is out of keeping with the patient's educational, cultural and social background, it is held with extraordinary conviction and subjective certainty. One can argue with each case but delusion is a phenomenon that is outside normal experience, not ordinary"

So, in many if not all of my close friends view I have a false, unshakable belief that my wife has BPD traits. It is out of my educational, cultural and social background to believe that someone I have known intimately for 21 years has a personality disorder, yet I hold this belief with extraordinary conviction and subjective certainty... .It is not ordinary to believe your wife has a personality disorder. Yet this is the 'delusional' belief I find myself with and therefore this is the map I find in my hand and have chosen to follow... .yet this path takes me further down this definition of delusional thought as it takes me more and more away from the consensus view of my W and more towards the isolated, abnormal belief.

But they don't know what I know, they don't see what I hear, they don't hear what I hear... .

So, this delusional, solitary, paranoid filled, tough path towards an ill-defined destination  of mine, how's it going for me... .I might add that I had spent so long making things worse I was pretty much as low as one could get:

Pro's
Less, almost no conflict
Some sporadic communication
Awesome relationship with my 3 children
Ability to defuse conflict between my children
Greater understanding of D10's emotional sensitivities and how to talk to her about them
Greater understanding of D5's natural emotional volatility and how to deal with them
Greater understanding of the physical signals my body gives me about my own emotional responses to situations... .I'm able to interpret my own emotions via by their physical expression
Ability to create space and time to allow myself to respond vs react... .and response is often silence
Learning that showing is more powerful than telling
Learning that allegations and showing W evidence results in her adapting her behaviour to avoid detection, not her correcting  behaviour or making herself accountable
Accepting that accountability is unlikely
Wife's chaotic behaviour seems to be reducing as emotional intensity is sucked out of the home environment

Cons
Divorce proceedings continuing
Time is ebbing away... .over 2 years now
Awareness of extent of my W's lies... .maybe that's not a con
Paranoia that my close friends are talking to my W behind my back... .or she has approached them and they have not informed me. Friends seem more aligned to her narrative than mine. Resulting in me minimising my communication with them to avoid things getting back to her.
Opting to be there for my kids in the evenings, wife opting to go out, further isolation
Burying my opinions and feelings deep within to avoid expressing my true feelings about W behaviour.
Total lack of information flow with regards to the divorce and her intentions
Inability to plan for the future due to multiple different outcomes based on her choices... .I am okay with most of the outcomes and plan to manage out the ones I am not happy with (hence current path I have chosen to follow), but each outcome has different 'futures' so very little can be actioned and it's more thought than doing.
Sense of isolation
Constant self doubt... .that's kind of a positive in a way, but it's like walking through fudge... .the fudge of self doubt.

I 'KNOW' (delusional) that given what I have experienced that the path I have chosen is the best path to be on... .But it's not easy and there's very few companions and rest stops on this path. FWIW I'm not depressed, I'm not anxious, emotionally and spiritually I am strong as an Ox... .but I'm not happy either... .I'm just meeeeeeeeehhhh.

Enabler 

[Cat Familiar]

It takes a lot of strength of character to hold firmly to one’s own center, while being challenged by others about those thoughts and beliefs. But seeing things through clear eyes, we cannot unsee what we know is the truth.

And when acting upon what we know is true and finding that it makes our path easier, it becomes of less concern that we are walking the road less traveled.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi Enabler, I see your strength like Cat and I really admire the way you were able to sift out the good in all this conflict. As you know I'm in a very similar place so I can relate to feeling strong but very unhappy at the same time.

I'm really sad to hear about the way things have gone with your friends. I'm lucky in that my best friend is not only not a mutual friend but also a mental health professional who has worked with BPD teenagers and gets it totally. For the rest of our friends I maintain the illusion.

Do you think that maybe there is just one friend in your group who could be swayed to your side if you gave them the details they would need to believe, e.g. a look at your records? I understand the risks in this if it gets back to your wife, but maybe they are worth it?

Sending you strength,
ROE

[Enabler]

Thanks Cat and ROE,

Cat, you’re right, I cannot unsee the things I now know, and now see in colour (at least in my delusion). One thing I would say in defence of my delusion is that I test and test my conclusions with any new evidence or theory... .and yet nothing fits quite as well as BPD.

ROE, the sad part about the information vacuum is that I don’t know what has and what hasn’t been said to my W. I don’t know but suspect she is in communication with my friends (last seen and online on WhatsApp correlates consistently well over multiple weeks... .yes I know a poor information source but hey, with no other information you take what you can get). They could be saying wonderful things about me, I just don’t know. You might wonder why I just don’t ask them... .I figure if they wanted to they would, it’s unlikely to change any outcomes and finally I suppose I see it as a bit of a test now. Test? Well a few months ago I ‘handed it to God’, figured every time I tried to fix things I made it worse. By approaching my friends I’m interfering, not trusting him. So, as agonising as it is, I’m staying out of whatever network she wants to create. I suppose in another way I’m focussing on me rather than trying to manage the information/advice she receives. I see one of the group uncorrelated, this makes sense as he would likely morally object and abstain. He very much gets it having a step-daughter who is diagnosed with BPD and a wife who suspects she suffers.

Unicorns are hard for a lot of people to imagine, people like the nice clean explanations which don’t take them down roads that make them feel delusional or abnormal. Believing your good friend of 20+ years suffers from a serious personality disorder and you didn’t have a clue  is not in the rhealms of normal for most. Friends rarely see the full picture, they see the masks. She doesn’t have 1 or 2 friends she spends all her time with, and there’s a reason for that.

Enabler

[RolandOfEld]

Believing your good friend of 20+ years suffers from a serious personality disorder and you didn’t have a clue  is not in the rhealms of normal for most. Friends rarely see the full picture, they see the masks.

Yeah I totally get you here. In a way, you might be hurting those friends by taking away that mask, that is if the part of herself your wife gives to them is more positive than negative. I often wonder what my wife's friends would do if they knew about the hitting, the clothes shredding, the going out with random guys she meets at a bar.

But that said, I probably don't want to know everything about my close friends. That's for their spouses. No matter what someone does to us, no matter how many lines they cross, no matter how many public FB pages they post crap about us on, that doesn't mean we can do the same. You walk a high path, my friend.

Just to reassess our assets, what support do you have family-wise in all this (yours, not hers)? Anyone who knows the truth of what's happening? And those endless nights at home with kids because wife is out running around is an all too familiar scenario. Anyone who can help out? Sorry if we've covered this in the past but I need a refresher.

~ROE
  

[Enabler]

Thanks ROE,

Mum and sisters are in the loop and supportive, however sisters live a decent distance away and Mum... .well I don't need/want mothering so although she's there, she's not the type of support I actually want. I have a good network at work and fringe friends through work that are there for me and are 'safe'. some 'get it' and others just want the best for me.

When I refer to 'safe' above, I think it's probably worth explaining. I've been down so many dead end roads trying to enlighten people or even just share my experience with them. The result has typically been them twisting what I have said into something they can understand and then misrepresenting what I said back to partners who then relay back to my wife. These close friends have plenty of material to reference yet they see them in dotted isolation as weird events, rather than a stream of behaviour with continued weirdness at home.  I've learnt to only talk to people who have no lines back to W... .the downside of this is that these safe friends have no first hand experience of her to reference.

One of these safe friends was talking to me last night on whatsap. He is concerned that this path however honorable is taking it's toll on me and it may be all to a fruitless end. I replied:

"I already see the fruits, they are in the form of relationships with the kids that is solid, but that is beginning to not be enough to bring complete joy. I guess it's like a partner dying, you have a period where you can focus on important stuff, and that's great, but once you have that lined up, you've done the grief bit, you need a bit of companionship... .I need that now. I need someone to look out for me, sounds pathetic but I could do with a hug from someone".

I guess I was referring to the type of intimate companionship you have with a partner... .not family or friends... .the 'we're living this together, I'm on your side' hug.

Enabler

[Cat Familiar]

I never "outed" my ex-husband's bad behavior to our group of mutual friends. I didn't do that for a variety of reasons--one I didn't want to involve them in our issues, I was really ashamed of what I was putting up with, and I wanted to maintain our social status in the group.

So when I finally couldn't tolerate any more of his behavior and ended the relationship, I was very surprised that some of my friends confided that, though they didn't know the details, they understood that I was dealing with someone who was disordered.

Ultimately more people ended up on Team Cat than Team Ex, not that I was trying to attract them to my side, but it just happened that way, about 90 to 10%, much to my surprise, since I was much more introverted and less engaging than my ex.

[Enabler]

Some nons have to endure daily thunder and lightening, violence, total unhinged rage, destruction of property... .these things leave bruises, broken plates, holes in the wall and police records.

Others, like me (who once did experience violence, rage and sulking) now endure less obvious and more covert forms of torture. Silent treatment, running off with no clue where she is, constant lies, inability to take responsibility, entitlement, constant changing emotions, distorted memories of the past, affairs, inappropriate relationships, inappropriate actions, double standards, victimhood, parental alienation attempts, trauma reenactment, knit-picking, deflection, projection... .

I've thought this before but I wish she'd just punch me in the face or throw a vase at me, at least then I wouldn't have to question my sense of her internal anger towards me... .and yes, I would have something to show people and say "this is how she hurts me". But no, I have no external wounds just internal ones that scream "why can you not just treat me like everyone else!". So when trying to explain the constant vibration of my life to others no doubt it comes across as pretty lame.  Who's going to win hearts and minds with those kinds of stories as a fella? Not me.

[RolandOfEld]

but once you have that lined up, you've done the grief bit, you need a bit of companionship... .I need that now. I need someone to look out for me, sounds pathetic but I could do with a hug from someone".

Enabler I was writing the same words to my Aunt back home in the US today. All that I've been through and I don't think I've had that kind of contact from an adult in years, maybe close to a decade. Someone to take care of us while we are rushing to take care of others who don't appreciate it. Wow am I there with you and would give you that hug if I could.

~ROE

[Notwendy]

The closest experience like yours that I can relate to is with my family. My BPD mother's FOO maintains that she is just a wonderful person. She's had their ear for decades and they see things her way.

I could have written this : But they don't know what I know, they don't see what I hear, they don't hear what I hear... .

I know she has BPD and my interactions with her have reflected this,  but she's explained her perspective to them for decades from her own victim mode and I know from other sources that she has painted me black to them and that they believe I am the one with the problems.

I also struggled with whether to clarify the situation or not. I decided it would create a cognitive dissonance- hearing two "truths" from both of us and then, they would have to decide who to believe. I also felt this would be participating in the triangulation. I decided on a similar path as yours. God knows the truth. I don't need to convince anyone else and also, it may not work and just fall flat to speak poorly of her to her relatives.

It isn't a spouse but over time, I have also become distant from her family. While it is her family, it was also mine-or I thought it was- and I am isolated from them.

The question for you is how do you proceed while still living according to your values? I wonder if it is even possible to share  family and friends when in conflict with someone with BPD? Their tendency to triangulate, and also see people as on their side or not their side and to tell their perspective from victim mode would make it hard to do this. I decided to not "share" my circle of friends/family with my mother. It wasn't an easy loss, I did grieve it,  but I decided to make new friends.

Your decision to do the honorable thing does not mean you have to neglect yourself. You do see the positives with your children, but I can understand the feeling of loneliness and wish for adult companionship. It may be time for you to step out and make some new adult connections. I know this won't be romantic connections in your value system, but it doesn't have to be. Maybe time to join a volunteer group, a men's group at your church, a bowling league or other sport, just something where you can be you- an adult- with other adults and your wife isn't even a part of this. Although you have chosen to let your wife lead the path to what happens with your marriage, she doesn't hold the key to your life- while child care is important - you can also carve some time with other adults. You are basically a married single- an awkward situation, but you can venture out, make friends, and have some activities you enjoy.

[Enabler]

I also struggled with whether to clarify the situation or not. I decided it would create a cognitive dissonance- hearing two "truths" from both of us and then, they would have to decide who to believe. I also felt this would be participating in the triangulation. I decided on a similar path as yours. God knows the truth. I don't need to convince anyone else and also, it may not work and just fall flat to speak poorly of her to her relatives.

Over the past year or so it has become pretty apparent that giving people details or clarifying actually achieves very very very little. People believe what they want to believe and people typically create their own truth based on assumptions and 'back data' rather than any real facts. For example, I have shown friends evidence of my wife's inappropriate relationships, I have read emails to them where she skirts around admitting that she and him had had an inappropriate relationship... .but I meet constant resistance when I suggest it still continues, why, because they don't believe it! Highly infuriating, almost "why let the facts get in the way of a good story". People have to find their own truth, BPD or non-BPD... .telling is futile.

You are basically a married single

Interesting concept and nicely summarised... .if not a little depressing

[Enabler]

All that I've been through and I don't think I've had that kind of contact from an adult in years, maybe close to a decade. Someone to take care of us while we are rushing to take care of others who don't appreciate it.

Appreciate the offer of bromance ;)

A mutual friend (whom I typically try and avoid communicating with as I'd class her as my W friend so didn't want to muddy the waters) was round our house and chatting with me 6m or so ago. At the end of the conversation when I was quite upset she gave me the most amazing hug, deep, meaningful, long and awesome. It had been the first such hug outside family and kids I had had for about 18m. I can still feel the energy transfer that came with that hug and that was probably the first time I realised that I truly, deeply missed that physical connection with others. At that moment I knew this woman cared for me, held me and really genuinely gave a  about me.

Enabler

[Notwendy]

Married single is actually how I thought of myself. In the early years of my marriage, my H resented being married and was hardly home. He had painted me black. It was basically me and the kids most of the time. I can understand that loneliness. I recall one day at work another co-worker asked me " are you OK you look tired?" I was tired, and sad and although this was probably an ordinary question for him to ask, I realized nobody asked me how I was doing or feeling. Just like a hug felt like a glass of water in the desert, so did this simple "how are you doing?" feel to me.

We don't have mutual friends. Our lack of socializing together during these times resulted in no couples inviting us anywhere. Going alone in a group of couples is really awkward. I made friends with the other mothers, volunteered at my kids, schools and basically pursued my own friend group. I realized to not do this would be a very lonely path. I also think it is important to keep my marriage vows.  I wasn't dealing with someone who had another person or indicated he wanted out of the marriage. He also didn't act like he wanted in.

Eventually he did decide he wanted to be married to me. I don't know what your wife will decide but you can make friends regardless. It's hard to shake off the effects of the early years of my marriage but I have been able to work on my self esteem and find I don't feel a need to socialize as much. I have a few close friends and that is good enough. Even if we don't feel we get everything we need emotionally from a spouse, we can make bonds with other people and still keep marriage vows.

[Enabler]

Hey Notwendy,

Great to hear that your H came to his sense and decided to be involved in the marriage he chose to commit to. I have plenty of friends, it's more the fact that due to the lack of information from W and deep suspicion that my friends of 30yrs are communicating with her, I have chosen to step out of those friendships to avoid people who don't share my values from muddying the waters. This sounds a bit strange but like I said in my original post, my values of standing for my marriage seem almost alien to 99% of the people I am friends with. The common view is "she doesn't love you, why are you there still? Move on." I didn't realise how different my values were from people I have known for so many years. Is it the throwaway culture, is it because they don't know what I know see what I see and hear what I hear, or is it because these friends have never spent the time to deeply empathise the complexity and damage a divorce could/will bring. During the past 2yrs I have stepped away and gained perspective on a lot of my life's relationships and realised that the veneer of similarity and connection is but that, wafer thin. I have never been unfaithful to any partner, some of my friends have... .why therefore should I expect them to see my situation in my faithful to the end way?

When in a non-consensus stance it's kinda better to not say anything rather than confirm your 'insanity' to people who are likely to purposefully or accidentally use it against you. My wife is excellent at 'recruiting' (as my T would call it), and my friends are not of limits. I would far rather her recruit them if she pleases, and feel the disappointment of the lack of insight (since they know very little of my thoughts now). After all... .what is she gleaning?... .their opinions of my thoughts (which is actually their own simplification of their own views on a subject they have NO understanding at all of)... .I'll stick with my safe friends for now

[Notwendy]

I suspect what she’s gleaning is validation for herself. I understand the recruiting - my mother does this and nobody is off limits. She tries to recruit my friends, children, and even tries my husband. In her own world she sees people as on her side or not her side. She sees others as “against “ her even if they aren’t. So to feel validated she has to get people close to me to be “against “ me. Fortunately my husband and kids don’t buy into this but her family and friends did. These were people who knew me since I was born. I thought of them as family. Lost them due to the things BPD Mom said to them about me. She has no problem making up lies.

My guess is that your wife doesn’t want to be seen as an adulteress and the person who broke up her marriage so she has to have people think she had significant reasons for her actions.

[Cat Familiar]

I suspect that I was the object of a family smear campaign against me originating with my mother, in conspiracy with my cousin, who I believe might have a PD too. As a result of that, when my unmarried uncle died, my cousin (not his son) inherited the bulk of his estate, while I got a small portion.

I also observed my cousin trying to extract money from my parents and he succeeded, with my mother. It was like they were in "cahoots" against me.

I chose not to participate in their drama and I wondered what each of them got out of that relationship. I believe it was validation for my mother and money for my cousin, but there was something deeper there as well--I think they both validated each other's worldview of being a loner, rejected by others.

[Enabler]

My guess is that your wife doesn’t want to be seen as an adulteress and the person who broke up her marriage so she has to have people think she had significant reasons for her actions.

I need to maintain a soft heart and deal with probabilities. Maybe this is true, in fact I am sure she doesn't want to be seen as an adulteress. Maybe she is trying to explore her past better than her own perceptions allow... .maybe she is trying to understand me... .maybe understand why I have changed... .the thing is, I don't know what her or my friends motivations are, so all I can do is work on the balance of probabilities and balance of LONG TERM outcomes rather than my typical short term impulsiveness. My short term impulsiveness craves to run round, call a friends meeting and as what the heck they are all doing... .outcome I can imagine would be pretty disastrous. Instead, long term outcome orientated response is to put that conversation on the back burner until the outcome looks better or less bad.

I keep arriving home expecting to be met by and intervention party    "We're doing this for your own good... ." Siiiiiiiiiigh