There are usually tiny nuggets of truth that you can validate

[Hyacinth Bucket]

Hi LoTR,

Your thread reached capacity so starting a new one so I can reply.

My daughter has had chlamydia at least five times in two years as well as gonnhorea and god knows what else. A real risk of repeatedly having these stds is infertility. I don't think my daughter could ever be a fit mother though.

I wanted to say that you don't have to validate anything that's invalid. For example if you think being a psychiatrist is a terrible job for her, you can validate her by saying something like "you really like to help people" if that's true. There are usually tiny nuggets of truth that you can validate without just agreeing with whatever nonsense you're hearing.

I also felt like it was my duty to help steer my daughter in the right direction so it was a really difficult one for me to stop doing. But you can validate her feelings without condoning any of her actions or even her beliefs. I hope that helps a bit.

HB
 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[LoveOnTheRocks]

Hi HB:  I read your response the other day and appreciated it then, as I do now.  I just... .couldn't... .take... .it... .the reality of it... .so I didn't answer or respond.  I wanted to say thanks and I know you're right and the advice on validation without completely validating is spot on. 
Im just sad today that this is what it is.

[Hyacinth Bucket]

Hi LoTR,

Do you feel like you are grieving? Is it more the state your daughter is in, or your relationship with her? Or something else? I guess i am wondering which parts are making you sad. If you feel like talking about it.

One thing I realized after a while is that my daughter has all kinds of plans for herself and the likelihood of them happening are almost zero. My daughter wants to be a sex therapist. I think being any kind of therapist would not be a great fit for her because she always has to be right (is a terrible listener) and there is a high likelihood she would be retraumatized repeatedly from listening to other people's trauma.  She's also never followed through on anything in her life, so the odds are astronomical that she could achieve that. I guess what I'm trying to say is that sometimes it helps (with our kids whose ambitions out weight their motivation)  to think of them like toddlers wanting all the toys at the toy store. It's normal to want things, that doesn't mean it will actually happen .

[LoveOnTheRocks]

Hi HB:  Yes!  You are understanding exactly what is going on with me.  First, its the realization of the condition and the fact that so many others here and elsewhere talk about it, which somehow makes it more real, and sadder for me.  Second, it's knowing she really does have all these needs, and I am disabled and struggling to keep my own self going, much less her, yet, living with her is so traumatizing for me and my pain issues, I can't do that and take care of myself at the same time (at all).  Third, her school goals... .pharmacy tech and psychiatrist... .and what you say of your daughter... .sex therapist... .I get it... .they both feel they have strong abilities in these areas, but at least my daughter doesn't realize how detrimental this would be for her to even try, and I already know she won't succeed... .BPD patients with other issues on strong meds are NOT approved for med school to psychiatry... .so even my opinion is irrelevant and the facts do now and will override.  I just die a little inside that she has this particular goal, and like so many other times I die a little inside... .I just want things to go smoother for her and her life. 
I am also taking personal responsibility for the FACT that while I did not abuse her, per se, I did continually press her to do what she never has been able to do, and to her, that might have felt like abuse.  Like go to school and do as you are asked and told.  I always tried to make it plain and simple to her and it never was plain and simple... .so I do bear some responsibility in harming her and believe me, she let me know about it... .we have had terrible years together and I wish I could get them back, but not terrible... .She is my only child and I grieve that I could not have that Beautiful experience I see so many families having... .everything, and I mean EVERYTHING was a downright struggle... .and it wore on me at times and wore me down at times.  Either way, it hurts... .and I hurt because of it.
For now, when I do see her and interact with her, i'd like, as far as possible, for it to be good... .
but that's a pipe dream.  Just yesterday I came across a 3500 dollar item that she destroyed all because it wasn't good enough for her... .she wanted better than I could give her, so she destroyed what I was able to give her.  Now, I will be lucky to sell it for 1500 and she only had it a few months.  This same thing has played out for years... .she has demanded a specific phone, then she tears it up over and over again.  Now that her stuff is her responsibility, this will get better, but when raising her, I had to pay repair fees constantly for all her stuff and it was expensive and got old and just hard to deal with.
Now that she isn't with me, I could vent to my husband about the 3500 item, and get it out of my system, no longer needing to talk to her, because I know me, and I have trouble biting my tongue in the face of such blatant disrespect... .but my cooler head is prevailing, I know what she did, she's done it a million times and will probably do it a lot more times... .but hopefully it won't be my job to fix it for her anymore.  (You cant tell the schools you won't repair their ipad, they require it for the student, and I had to repair it a whopping 6 times one year!). 
The whole thing is just so much... .BPD... .and me... .and our family... .and her... .and the pain it brings... .
But I genuinely appreciate all of you talking back with me when I post.

[LoveOnTheRocks]

The most AMAZING thing in the world just happened.
I talked to my distraught daughter for about an hour (maybe more) and I actually helped her and we actually had a fantastic (though wrought with pain) discussion... .and she is in a much greater place.

She has been extremely betrayed by her very best friend through no fault of her own (it is sickening and heartbreaking at first thought, but she and I talked, figured it out, and why it was about her best friend and not really at all about her, and she went from a puddle on the floor to back to full of life and being ok, even when things aren't really ok).

I also learned that the new job she got has been put on hold due to some pending small charges she has.  As awful as it is, we had a great discussion about her getting the job in the first place and about other interviews she still has lined up... .and I offered (she didn't ask) to help with financing as long as she kept her interviews (and she intends to, there was no question there, so I didn't harp on this, just mentioned it and said I wanted to and felt good about it).

I also told her about how I am learning how sometimes my stress can stress her and gave real time illustrations, and was able to tell her that while I am glad we are not living with each other right now, I love her to pieces, and I am FOR HER, and we learned together (hopefully) how to avoid such extremes when things go south with us (we'll see how it goes when the times come, and I expect they will, but with her in therapy, on the meds, and both of us actually trying hard to restore and improve our relationship, this could go better than it has in the past).
Anyway, she is coming to my house either tonight or tomorrow to just hang out with me and my husband.  She's really sad (as she should be, she has a GREAT reason to be down and out right now, just with her stuff, and sometimes life isn't nice!)... .so, I can support her and love on her and just keep it real about how life can be sometimes... .and as long as I am able to validate her feelings (*doing ok with that atm)... .it should be another positive experience under our belts.
So, perhaps all is not lost.
I am still, overall, grieving... .and likely will for a while... .because with all I have going on with me, with her, with my pain issues (they are massive)... .it gets to be too much to take in and I struggle... .
but every ray of sunshine in an otherwise cloudy day is a ray of sunshine that warms my soul... .and puts a smile on my face... .and that's just as wonderful as it should be... .so, for this moment in time, I am feeling something way better than grief.

[Hyacinth Bucket]

hi LoTR,

That is so wonderful that you had a good conversation with your daughter and that she just wants to hang out! That is the best feeling, those times when you can just *be* with your kid, and feel like a normal family for a little bit. I hope you have a lovely time!

I'm sorry you are dealing with severe chronic pain. I know first hand how much our own issues can compound dealing with BPD kids. My husband and I both have mental health issues which, if we don't take proper care of ourselves, can become quite serious. I have OCD and my husband has PTSD. It can feel impossible to prioritize ourselves when our daughter is in constant crisis and we really let ourselves go and suffered for it. I'm glad that your daughter doesn't live with you, so that you can have some physical and  hopefully mental space to take care of yourself.  Even then it can be very difficult!

Try not to be too hard on yourself about your past relationship with your daughter. You are a loving mom, and are trying hard to do what's right for both of you. Even if you had done everything 'right', there is no guarantee on what would have happened.  Despite their mental illness, our kids still have free will and make choices.

I can so relate to what you were saying about wanting your daughter's life to be easier. My daughter absolutely has to learn everything the hard way. I tried so hard to prevent train-wrecks I saw coming a million miles away, and it was never any use. Every single time it turned out exactly as I thought it would, it never failed. It is absolutely agonizing to watch. But nothing I did or said ever prevented the inevitable.

Let us know how your family time with your daughter goes!

[LoveOnTheRocks]

My daughter is having trouble getting a job due to a pending domestic criminal matter.  She has confided to me over the past few days that it is wrecking her a decent amount on the inside.  It would upset anyone, but I worry for her, because on top of it all, she really doesn't have many friends to talk to.  I am so happy she is talking to me (a change from the past where I would be so fed up with her about acting out in other ways that I wouldn't want to talk to her at all, so we are both growing!).
Anyway, things are going well over here.  I am getting ready to call her and put in my voice mail for her to call me back (, she almost never answers the phone when I call her).  I'll take it and when she does call, I make time for her... .it's making such a positive difference and I am developing so much more compassion for her... .something that had completely gone away after so many abuses and offenses she has done to me.  Lately, she is not being destructive and I am able to love on her more.  I have to let so much go, and I have... .in favor of making a better way forward.

[wendydarling]

LorT   bless you, you are making progress, letting go   our sensitive children suffer 3rd degree burns and when we feel, recognise that, understand ~ we can help them reduce their suffering by changing our approach, tools and lessons here. I'm still reeling from my DD30 (post DBT) recently saying her childhood was full of fear because she did not know how to regulate her emotions and has, is through DBT learning how. How did I miss this? She's a quiet pw BPD, all in, not outward like your DD.

Everyday I look for new golden nuggets to validate, they are there.  

Does your DD have any personal interests, eg art, photography, tech, writing, sport, card games, history, reading, music?

WDx  

[once removed]

hey LOTR, these sound like positive developments!

she is coming to my house either tonight or tomorrow

howd it go?

[LoveOnTheRocks]

Man, things have been really good with us.  She has opened up so much and is sharing her "place" pretty much daily.  She called in tears and expressed concern that she is depressed all the time, given all the good things that are happening in her life.  She told me that she never really realized that her brain chemistry was not balanced, but clearly it isn't, because on the day she landed a really good job (for her age), she is feeling down.  We agreed she needs to communicate with a psychiatrist about the specifics and while she wants to be put on antidepressants, we both felt she just needs to get that dialogue going and keep it going with the same dr... .one she feels she can trust.
Also, she has decided that she wants to stay in town for college, because she knows how long it takes to get a good flow with prescription meds, said it could take as long as a year or two, and so she doesn't want to move away from home while being in the middle of working with a doc here.  The rest of us are grateful, because we want her close enough to us, in the event things go wildly wrong.  She can and does get too depressed and we fear the self harming and suicidal potentials... .so, close to home for the next year or two is GREAT for us.
Communication has been exceptional.  I love her and wanted to fix my wrong habits and have been working hard to get it right.  She also gets a lot of credit, because she also has been working hard to have a better communication with us.  Things are going really good for now.  That's all I need is now.  I know this won't be forever, but I don't have to deal with forever today, only today (didn't one of you wise moderators tell me not to project?... .I heard ya!).

[Hyacinth Bucket]

That is so great to hear!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders