BPD (him) meets CPTSD (me) and clashes over space

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I feel that the only way to act truly to both my own values (not blocking) and the value society insists on (don't stand for abusive behaviour) is to end the relationship.
... .
that I am trying to adopt a boundary - "I will not be subjected to abusive texts" - that doesn't feel authentic to me?

"dont stand for abusive behavior" is the value. texts, blocking texts, these are all means.

of course, you define what is abusive behavior. we all have different definitions. for some, its shouting. for others, its hitting. your definition is your boundary, whats in bounds, whats out of bounds.

means/actions/consequences are what you do to protect your boundary.

I started to think that maybe I should take steps to show him that this is unacceptable

If *I* am not disturbed by the abusive texts, maybe I shouldn't feel that I *have to* make a boundary against them?

to some extent, this is where boundaries can get blurred.

the behavior is acceptable, or it isnt (no right or wrong). means/actions/consequences really just show a person how far they can take it and what will/wont happen if they do.

so there are options. ignoring it is one that youve tried. calling it out is one youve tried. not reading the texts is another (i wish id followed that one)... .hard to avoid practically, even if you try. you can block him too, but then you have to undo it, which shows him that it is acceptable, to a point. not speaking for x amount of days is another. saying something hurtful to get under his skin is another. essentially any consequence you can think of and you can take it as far as youre willing to go.

none of it will necessarily show him that its unacceptable. youve told him it is, youve tried to show him it is, and he continues to do it. you can reasonably assume he will continue. if it is acceptable, but not preferable, there are ways to protect yourself from it and defend your boundary... .not easy ways, but possibly one that works. i regret not being more creative in that regard, im just trying to help clarify and throw some things out there.

if it is unacceptable, that leaves you with few options.

[once removed]

I feel that the only way to act truly to both my own values (not blocking) and the value society insists on (don't stand for abusive behaviour) is to end the relationship.
... .
that I am trying to adopt a boundary - "I will not be subjected to abusive texts" - that doesn't feel authentic to me?

"dont stand for abusive behavior" is the value. texts, blocking texts, these are all means.

of course, you define what is abusive behavior. we all have different definitions. for some, its shouting. for others, its hitting. your definition is your boundary, whats in bounds, whats out of bounds.

means/actions/consequences are what you do to protect your boundary.

I started to think that maybe I should take steps to show him that this is unacceptable

If *I* am not disturbed by the abusive texts, maybe I shouldn't feel that I *have to* make a boundary against them?

to some extent, this is where boundaries can get blurred.

the behavior is acceptable, or it isnt (no right or wrong). means/actions/consequences really just show a person how far they can take it and what will/wont happen if they do.

so there are options. ignoring it is one that youve tried. calling it out is one youve tried. not reading the texts is another (i wish id followed that one)... .hard to avoid practically, even if you try. you can block him too, but then you have to undo it, which shows him that it is acceptable, to a point. not speaking for x amount of days is another. saying something hurtful to get under his skin is another. essentially any consequence you can think of and you can take it as far as youre willing to go.

none of it will necessarily show him that its unacceptable. youve told him it is, youve tried to show him it is, and he continues to do it. you can reasonably assume he will continue. if it is acceptable, but not preferable, there are ways to protect yourself from it and defend your boundary... .not easy ways, but possibly one that works. i regret not being more creative in that regard, im just trying to help clarify and throw some things out there.

if it is unacceptable, that leaves you with few options.

[Cat Familiar]

You've managed to transcend feeling abused by his abusive texts. You don't feel like it's damaging your mental health, yet you still label them as "abusive" and felt the need to block him.

He ran over your boundary about not coming over when you asked to have your wishes supported. And he tried to terrorize you by intimating that he was lurking around your house and could break in, if he chose.

In your telling of the pluses and minuses of the relationship, these behavioral issues are still outweighed by the pluses, yet you are thinking that you may need to end the relationship due to not being able to live according to your values.

Even though you say some of these deviant behaviors are not dealbreakers for you, a couple of thoughts occur to me. One is that by accepting these patterns, do you think it's possible that he may turn up the volume in order to get a bigger response from you?

Also, do you feel like you are settling for less than you deserve in this relationship, as compared with how you would be treated by an emotionally healthy partner?

[Bnonymous]

"dont stand for abusive behavior" is the value. texts, blocking texts, these are all means.

of course, you define what is abusive behavior. we all have different definitions. for some, its shouting. for others, its hitting. your definition is your boundary, whats in bounds, whats out of bounds.

means/actions/consequences are what you do to protect your boundary.

to some extent, this is where boundaries can get blurred.

the behavior is acceptable, or it isnt (no right or wrong). means/actions/consequences really just show a person how far they can take it and what will/wont happen if they do.

so there are options. ignoring it is one that youve tried. calling it out is one youve tried. not reading the texts is another (i wish id followed that one)... .hard to avoid practically, even if you try. you can block him too, but then you have to undo it, which shows him that it is acceptable, to a point. not speaking for x amount of days is another. saying something hurtful to get under his skin is another. essentially any consequence you can think of and you can take it as far as youre willing to go.

none of it will necessarily show him that its unacceptable. youve told him it is, youve tried to show him it is, and he continues to do it. you can reasonably assume he will continue. if it is acceptable, but not preferable, there are ways to protect yourself from it and defend your boundary... .not easy ways, but possibly one that works. i regret not being more creative in that regard, im just trying to help clarify and throw some things out there.

if it is unacceptable, that leaves you with few options.

Thanks, onceremoved.

I believe the behaviour is morally unacceptable/wrong. But it is something that I am willing to accept, in the sense that it is not a deal breaker for me.

Ahhhh... .Typing that has just clarified for me where I'm going wrong... .I am not responsible for his moral well-being - that's between him and his conscience. I'd only have a responsibility to stop it if it was something I wasn't willing to accept in my life. I'm clear now. I understand where I was getting confused - I was confusing "morally unacceptable in my eyes" and "something I won't accept in my life". I get it now!

Actually, I think calling it out is working to some extent. It hasn't stopped the behaviour, but it has lessened it and given him some insight into it. It's one of those things that he talks about, examines, and owns during the later conversations - he is basically doing therapy on himself about it, learning that a lot of it is projection and tag-you're-it stuff. He basically tries to create in me the feelings he suffers himself from the abuse he was subjected to in childhood, as though he could make the feelings go away by giving them to someone else. This is something he is coming to understand and explain about himself.

What shocked me this time was the total denial that he'd said anything wrong - that has never happened before, and makes the situation more disturbing to me than it has been on previous occasions. I won't stand for gaslighting.

So... .What consequences can I try for gaslighting? (I wouldn't do the not speaking for x days thing and I wouldn't say something hurtful back - neither of those things would sit well with me).

[Bnonymous]

Hi Cat Familiar,

I think, with the help of other members, I have worked out why I felt the need to block the texts/his number. I was confusing "morally unacceptable in my eyes" with "unacceptable in my life". I think the texts are abusive and I think it is morally wrong of him to send abusive texts. But I get now that the moral issue is between him and his conscience and I don't actually have an obligation to teach him to behave more ethically - I would only be obliged to set a boundary if it affected me and I wasn't willing to accept that behaviour in my life - I am not obliged to set a boundary just because I think the behaviour is morally wrong. (Sorry if that's confusing - I've only just come to understand it myself!   )

Now that I realise I am not obliged to teach him ethics or take it upon myself to be responsible for his morality, the value conflict has disappeared - I no longer feel any obligation to block him and so I no longer feel that I can't stay in the relationship and be true to my values. I now realise that I can.

I didn't accept his threats to turn up and invade my space - I said I would call the police if he did that and I meant it. I didn't accept the gaslighting either - I effectively said "I will not sit here and allow myself to be gaslighted" and I hung up.

I think accepting him and accepting the behaviours are not the same thing. It is possible to stay in a relationship and accept your partner and also refuse to accept problematic behaviours. The only behaviour I have historically accepted (and I've still called it out) is the abusive text messages thing and he's turned the volume up to max there and still found he doesn't upset me or knock me off balance with it - there's nowhere further he can go with it.

I've already said that I know I don't deserve this treatment. But he doesn't treat me this way because I deserve it - he treats me this way because he's ill and damaged and has yet to learn better ways of self-soothing. It's not about me.

What is about me is whether or not this relationship is good for my mental health overall/on-balance, and that's a question I will continue to ask myself for as long as it lasts, and, if I ever become sure that the answer is no, that's when it will be time to end it.

[once removed]

Actually, I think calling it out is working to some extent.

i think the calling it out, and in the manner you do, are mature responses/communication. its hard to say if they will ever stop it from happening, but it sounds like you are seeing results, and that its constructive.

(I wouldn't do the not speaking for x days thing and I wouldn't say something hurtful back - neither of those things would sit well with me).

these are not mature responses/communication, and i certainly wouldnt recommend either, they just illustrate a point: actions have consequences... .they can be anything, but ideally they are mature ones.

I won't stand for gaslighting.

So... .What consequences can I try for gaslighting?

i think what i hear you saying is that if he says or does something, you dont want him to follow it up with denials or spin, and ideally would want to see accountability and ownership. do i have that right?

if hes not prepared to give you that in the moment, there are lots of things... .

"ill talk to you later" (withdraw)

"ill talk to you when you can make an honest accounting of what you did" (drawing a line, which depending on the context, frequency, lots of things, can either be immature or pretty reasonable)

"im going to need some space to work through this, ill talk to you when i do" (self protective)

(examples only, give or take wording)

in terms of consequences, its about what works for you, and one that is ideally mature.

[Bnonymous]

Those are brilliant suggestions, onceremoved! Thank you!

And, yes, you've summed it up excellently. Thanks again.

[Cat Familiar]

I think accepting him and accepting the behaviours are not the same thing. It is possible to stay in a relationship and accept your partner and also refuse to accept problematic behaviours. The only behaviour I have historically accepted (and I've still called it out) is the abusive text messages thing and he's turned the volume up to max there and still found he doesn't upset me or knock me off balance with it - there's nowhere further he can go with it.

I've already said that I know I don't deserve this treatment. But he doesn't treat me this way because I deserve it - he treats me this way because he's ill and damaged and has yet to learn better ways of self-soothing. It's not about me.

What is about me is whether or not this relationship is good for my mental health overall/on-balance, and that's a question I will continue to ask myself for as long as it lasts, and, if I ever become sure that the answer is no, that's when it will be time to end it.

It sounds like you have a very centered and grounded approach to this relationship. I think it wise to distinguish between accepting the behavior and accepting the person. 

[Notwendy]

I think you have come to a good conclusion that you are not morally responsible for your BF's actions.

We can't stop someone's behavior- we can only choose our response to it. I agree with the suggestions to disengage from some verbal topics but you don't have to block all conversation.

Our boundaries are for us, what we tolerate and what we do not and that is individual. You might want to have a boundary on bringing up topics that are hurtful to you. My BPD mother has said some mean things to me about my father. I finally told her I will not discuss him with her but I still speak to her. This may not change her behavior but if she brings the topic up, I disengage- change the subject, or say again, I don't wish to discuss this.

Over time, her comments about him have gotten less frequent. I think pwBPD say these things when they are hurting and projecting. They are kind of like word vomit. When a child has a stomach ache, they vomit, then they feel better. It seems my BPD mother does the same thing with uncomfortable feelings. Then she feels better but those of us who she has verbally "vomited" on don't. It helps to not react emotionally to the words as much as possible and to disengage when that happens. I do have to have other boundaries with the relationship for my own sense of peace. I know this is different from a romantic relationship but I think you are doing something similar- finding your own sanity in the situation and looking for how to maintain it.

[Bnonymous]

Thank you, Cat Familiar and Notwendy.

I suspect I've fallen into the trap of over-thinking things to the point where my brain stops functioning properly and its tires cease to grip and start spraying mud in a rut. I think I need to try and give myself a bit of a mental and emotional break from this.

I loved your analogy of the child with stomach ache feeling better after vomiting, Notwendy - I think that's spot on and a really useful way of looking at it.

Thanks again all.

[Notwendy]

Take care of yourself.

I hope you do something nice for you today- whatever that is such as:  read a book, take a walk or hot bath, make something special to eat, watch a movie.